Important article found

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ArchiE Blue once ran his car on water only.
Also did mr Dingel, who said he didnt needed an air filter.
Why?
They sucked ambient air and the hho into their engines thru their electrolysis cells and plates!
This theory is now supported, read down here.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1923Natur.112...57V



WENDT and Landauer (Jour. Amer. Chem. Soc., March, 1922, p. 513) failed to get any evidence for the presence of active hydrogen, generated by the action of an acid on a metal, or by the electrolysis of a solution of KOH. Similar results were also obtained by Y. Venkataramaiah (Proc. Sci. Assoc. Maharaja's College, Vizianagram, July 1921, p. 2). We have repeated the experiments, and find that hydrogen is actually activated when a conducting solution is electrolysed. We electrolysed a solution of dilute sulphuric acid, employing a platinum tube with a large number of pin-holes bored in it, and using a current varying from 3 to 15 amperes. While the electrolysis was going on, compressed nitrogen was bubbled through the solution, through the platinum electrode, to see if any ammonia were formed, as Wendt and Landauer found that active hydrogen combines with nitrogen to form ammonia. After a run of nearly twelve hours, the presence of ammonia was tested in the resulting solution. The result was positive.

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Great find Steve! Thank you! I tried to read the full article but was asked for money. Although, they added a paragraph on the page...

Another method was also tried, using an iron tube as an electrode. It is known that nascent hydrogen diffuses through metals like iron even at ordinary temperatures.

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reckon WENDT and Landauer failed to get results for lack of platnium or nitrogen or what?

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Well, they got ammonia.....Which is good. Ammonia is also a great replacement for petrol

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I support the idea that fuel repacement can be done. the way i see it, most of us will have fuel injected vehicles so the 2 ways of achieving the goal would me: a hybrid of petroleum/gasoline and hho or 100% water/hho.

 Because this is going to take some time to achieve, the problem i see is the hybrid mixing of petroleum and hho particularly with fuel injected vehicles because fuel injected vehicles to my understanding so far limit the amount of variation of fuel consumption to the map and sensors that ultimately control the injector pulsewidth.

For a hybrid install on a fuel injected vehicle, petrol / gasoline consumption reduction has to come from : change in driver behaviour pattern, altering injector pulse width, engine timing, increased combustion efficiency, and importantly engine lubrication.

 As i explained elsewhere i went to a diesel oil spark rated in my vehixle because under friction testing the particular brand had the highest film strength(ability to keep 2 surfaces apart) and the powerup additive in the oil further reduces any friction and ultrasonic friction, add it to the fuel for upper cylinder lubrication also makes a difference.!

so what is being aimed for? I want a way to measure the vehicles sensors in real time and log it, add hho and measure, this then will  tell me what the sensors are doing otherwise we are guessing and measuring only by driving and fuel cost is expensive testing. If theres a sensor change then technically the signals to the ecu must be changed. My current project under construction is to use an arduino board to datalog the sensors, the digital pins can interface with a obd2 interface board to interrogate the ecu live time to get some data, the analog pins can be used to measure injector pulsewidths and any other sensor not picked up in the obd2 stream.

parts used:
OBD-II UART - great board because it does all useful protocols: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9555
TFT lcd screen with microsd card slot http://www.ladyada.net/products/22tftbreakout/
arduino uno board from: http://www.freetronics.com/
power supply regulator to power the uno: http://www.freetronics.com/products/poe-power-regulator-28v
the hard part now is the programming!!!

i think a decision needs to be made. If youre aiming to have a cell set be the fuel supply, will it be a  supplementary supply to existing fuel or a 100% fuel supply OR will the method be to use injectors and bypass the cell idea altogether.?


 

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I support the idea that fuel repacement can be done. the way i see it, most of us will have fuel injected vehicles so the 2 ways of achieving the goal would me: a hybrid of petroleum/gasoline and hho or 100% water/hho.

 Because this is going to take some time to achieve, the problem i see is the hybrid mixing of petroleum and hho particularly with fuel injected vehicles because fuel injected vehicles to my understanding so far limit the amount of variation of fuel consumption to the map and sensors that ultimately control the injector pulsewidth.

For a hybrid install on a fuel injected vehicle, petrol / gasoline consumption reduction has to come from : change in driver behaviour pattern, altering injector pulse width, engine timing, increased combustion efficiency, and importantly engine lubrication.

 As i explained elsewhere i went to a diesel oil spark rated in my vehixle because under friction testing the particular brand had the highest film strength(ability to keep 2 surfaces apart) and the powerup additive in the oil further reduces any friction and ultrasonic friction, add it to the fuel for upper cylinder lubrication also makes a difference.!

so what is being aimed for? I want a way to measure the vehicles sensors in real time and log it, add hho and measure, this then will  tell me what the sensors are doing otherwise we are guessing and measuring only by driving and fuel cost is expensive testing. If theres a sensor change then technically the signals to the ecu must be changed. My current project under construction is to use an arduino board to datalog the sensors, the digital pins can interface with a obd2 interface board to interrogate the ecu live time to get some data, the analog pins can be used to measure injector pulsewidths and any other sensor not picked up in the obd2 stream.

parts used:
OBD-II UART - great board because it does all useful protocols: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9555
TFT lcd screen with microsd card slot http://www.ladyada.net/products/22tftbreakout/
arduino uno board from: http://www.freetronics.com/
power supply regulator to power the uno: http://www.freetronics.com/products/poe-power-regulator-28v
the hard part now is the programming!!!

i think a decision needs to be made. If youre aiming to have a cell set be the fuel supply, will it be a  supplementary supply to existing fuel or a 100% fuel supply OR will the method be to use injectors and bypass the cell idea altogether.?

a post i saw somewhere used a disc with holes drilled to restrict the entire oxygen supply ahead of the air filter, like being at a higher altitude where the air is less available to the entire system...thus tricking the computer into using less fuel

i tried this on my mitsubishi my mileage went from 24 highway to 30 mpg, but the more i restricted the intake air the less passing power i had and at a final point i forgot i had the intake restricted and tried to accelerate hard and almost damaged the motor, it starved for air/fue and stopped running for a second with a loud thump, but no damage was evident

the theory is this.....restrict the oxygen going into the engine, then when you add in the HHO the oxygen is replaced, but with the added hydrogen...no need therefore to mess with computer, mass airflow sensor or oxygen sensors

the engine is designed to waste fuel and this gets you the extra horsepower on demand for passing speeds but during regular operation you are not efficient...by restricting the air intake you incrase efficiency but lose power if needed for acceleration...otherwise there is no noticable effects of restriction

take a 4 inch round plastic disc 1/4 thivk and drill 1/4 inch holes every other point to makwe a 50% restriction
tape this over the air cleaner intake
add tape to cover holes gradually to see increase of mileage

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Will it look like this?

(http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/861/b02/861b0206-a584-4a7d-b9e9-6bfe1def7c64)

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a post i saw somewhere used a disc with holes drilled to restrict the entire oxygen supply ahead of the air filter, like being at a higher altitude where the air is less available to the entire system...thus tricking the computer into using less fuel

i tried this on my mitsubishi my mileage went from 24 highway to 30 mpg, but the more i restricted the intake air the less passing power i had and at a final point i forgot i had the intake restricted and tried to accelerate hard and almost damaged the motor, it starved for air/fue and stopped running for a second with a loud thump, but no damage was evident

the theory is this.....restrict the oxygen going into the engine, then when you add in the HHO the oxygen is replaced, but with the added hydrogen...no need therefore to mess with computer, mass airflow sensor or oxygen sensors

the engine is designed to waste fuel and this gets you the extra horsepower on demand for passing speeds but during regular operation you are not efficient...by restricting the air intake you incrase efficiency but lose power if needed for acceleration...otherwise there is no noticable effects of restriction

take a 4 inch round plastic disc 1/4 thivk and drill 1/4 inch holes every other point to makwe a 50% restriction
tape this over the air cleaner intake
add tape to cover holes gradually to see increase of mileage

Hi Ali, that sounds interesting. that scanario is why im aiming to have a way to measure the sensor data live from the ecu or from the sensors themselves, with any change it would be handy to see whats actually going on.

i did some sums to convert imperial to metric for my own understanding
30 miles = 48.28km
26 miles = 41.84km
difference: 6.44km
1us gallon = 3.785 litres.

41.84 / 3.785 = 11.05 km/litre of fuel.
48.28 / 3.785 = 12.76 km/litre of fuel.
difference: 1.71 km / litre of fuel.
for 95 grade fuel, current cost is $nz 2.069 per litre.

for safety for both overtaking and the engine itself i wouldnt recommend choking the air intake as the potential reduction in cost of fuel compared to otherpotential costs is not large enough to justify; similar saving could be achieved by feathering the throttle to use as little as possible to reach crusing speeds, when adding the hho into the manifold after the butterfly to rely upon vacuum along with the change in driving behaviour can achieve similar results....jmho. Thats why i want a way to benchmark what the sensors measure both without hho and then with; and any measured change from the sensors may give some data to know whether the added hho is working with you or against you ie does the oxy sensor pickup the change and think it needs to richen the mixture/lengthen the pulsewidth of the injectors..