Author Topic: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)  (Read 8631 times)

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2024, 04:19:12 am »
This was a circuit from 2008 on a mower engine that purposely allowed crossover leakage induction volts from a 5 turn wire  onto an adjacent 7 turn wire, WITHOUT core, so as the in series volts is increased from 12 to over 100 volts. Was this brilliant, or just a cheap method of increasing a lower voltage. See photo of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly electromagnet on internet images. The LOWER only section of 13 turns had steel core. This was in reference to HIS (2) YouTube videos that can still be seen. . (On  old, worn out ignition cables, they spark across in the dark at night when you lift the hood on bad ignition cables.)  He put the inserted section with spark plug cable  to use for his project in 2008. Is this type  called capacitive voltage induction? My first test on this showed a neon bulb glowing with at least 90v, FROM ONLY THE 7 TURNS WIRING, not electrically connected to 5 turns.

The next step is to add accessory spark gap, which does not affect spark plug firing. As the input Ignition coil is then forced to INCREASE to compensate, the leakage crossover volts would also go higher. ( I believe NOW THIS IS THE SECRET how Nathren and the 2 technicians successfully ran the Briggs engine on hydrogen generated in combustion chamber electrolysis and fired for piston force. If this is so, then all their other car conversions done earlier had made use of stated 60 turns over EXISTING spark plug cables!! E higher volts needed = 6–7 amps X Resistance of tiny salt water cell at plug tips.- about 23 ohms. Briggs had 5 turns bare #12 wrapped with 7 turns insulated, and then for the other autos,- thick insulated ignition cable wrapped with 60 turns insulated #14 gauge wire coil! What do you think?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 05:16:31 am by russrHHO »

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2024, 10:54:34 am »
This was a circuit from 2008 on a mower engine that purposely allowed crossover leakage induction volts from a 5 turn wire  onto an adjacent 7 turn wire, WITHOUT core, so as the in series volts is increased from 12 to over 100 volts. Was this brilliant, or just a cheap method of increasing a lower voltage. See photo of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly electromagnet on internet images. The LOWER only section of 13 turns had steel core. This was in reference to HIS (2) YouTube videos that can still be seen. . (On  old, worn out ignition cables, they spark across in the dark at night when you lift the hood on bad ignition cables.)  He put the inserted section with spark plug cable  to use for his project in 2008. Is this type  called capacitive voltage induction? My first test on this showed a neon bulb glowing with at least 90v, FROM ONLY THE 7 TURNS WIRING, not electrically connected to 5 turns.

The next step is to add accessory spark gap, which does not affect spark plug firing. As the input Ignition coil is then forced to INCREASE to compensate, the leakage crossover volts would also go higher. ( I believe NOW THIS IS THE SECRET how Nathren and the 2 technicians successfully ran the Briggs engine on hydrogen generated in combustion chamber electrolysis and fired for piston force. If this is so, then all their other car conversions done earlier had made use of stated 60 turns over EXISTING spark plug cables!! E higher volts needed = 6–7 amps X Resistance of tiny salt water cell at plug tips.- about 23 ohms. Briggs had 5 turns bare #12 wrapped with 7 turns insulated, and then for the other autos,- thick insulated ignition cable wrapped with 60 turns insulated #14 gauge wire coil! What do you think?


What i think in such a case, is the question on how in earth did he thought on this setup?
Was he getting messages from outer space? ;)

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2024, 17:13:46 pm »
Where did they get their information from?      To answer your question, I am referred back to the thousands of messages on the now shut down web forum, used by Nathren and others. Nathren was a non-technical person - at all., little formal education, just hands on work knowledge. His son, also Nathren, WAS a technician and worked for an electrical company. They had a part time machine shop/garage, where the other 2 TECHNICIANS also worked in their spare time on alternate energy systems-solar,  and electrolysis for hydrogen. Therefore, all 4 of them tinkered in the garage/workshop in Georgia. So now you know who designed and built the electrical circuits for the different car conversions and the mower engine that ran on THE SAME type spark plug electrolysis for hydrogen and water vapor pressure.  On the Waterfuel1978 forum, Nathren signed in as S1R9A9M9, and son signed in as Nathren. You could tell the big difference by the technical quality of paragraphs written. ( The code S1R9A9M9 came from a metal machining job done by contract for small part used on a previous NASA mission to space. It is a reference to MARS 1999 spelled backwards. That's what he had used to start up the original web forum to tell the public about the TECHNICIAN"S work on alternate energy projects)

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2024, 18:56:32 pm »
Still tinkering with the S1R circuits in relation to the small mower engine. I copied all the tech data from Nathren's web forum of thousands of messages, before it shut down 2019 . It was the 3 technicians that made the circuits for the cars + mower engine to run on water in the carbs, not him. His son, also Nathren, who was a technician, worked with the 2 tech people in their garage/machine shop in Georgia. .Lots of data in the forum but not all. I believe you call it proprietary company information. Nathren was a non-technical person with little educational background, just hands on learning. The techs worked as commercial electricians , and then in the shop spare time on alternate energy projects.
A spark plug as zero ohms, and carrying 6 amps adjusted with variable resistor and jumped with screwdriver holds the current steady. With salt water at the plug tips, there is only 1 tenth amp flow. This is why it was mentioned in the forum several times that  =  >  100 volts was necessary to pass 6-7 amps though the plug.. The 2008 Briggs engine ran on 10 amps.in the 2 videos, but wasn't necessary.  All the earlier S1R car conversions used 6-7 amps with retarded timing about -34 degrees.  4 cyl tractor, 6cyl car, and two  8cyl Chevy V8 engines. I'm on stage 5 of 6 with my long-running project. The ignition has to be inductive type , not CDI. The spark time has to be in milliseconds, not microseconds.  The factory timing on Briggs 1 cyl is at TDC. It was too much trouble for them to fabricate a curved aluminum plate with curved slot to make the Magnetron adjustable for late timing. They made an "electromagnet" to form a field over the plug wire to force extend timing from zero and on to about minus 34 degrees. The compression of spark plug greatly raises up the high voltage. An accessory in series spark gap forces an increase in Magnetron voltage also. This is necessary because of the required "extra volts" needed to push the amps through plug. That's why the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly had that weird winding method and bare copper #12. The crossover leakage induction volts into the red wire from bare wire ignition is in series with the low voltage and is sufficient . I amps required times R resistance of load  =  voltage required to push the amps through the electrolyte. The S1R coils is inserted, spliced in, and has several purposes at the same time. (Of course there are other ways of doing things) I purchased a low voltage variable meter with resistors and neon bulbs to measure this special voltage. First test says 90-110v. I am trying to get it higher. The low volts would also add to this in series when connected. According to the Waterfuel1978 web forum, all the engines ran on hydrogen gas generated at spark plugs along with some water vapor pressure that contributed to piston pressure. All the cars had a specialized relay PER CYLINDER. It wasn't until years later they found out what the box of 15 relays were originally made for. Utility pole electrical boxes in Georgia for switching the green/red 6v bulbs.of traffic signal lights. Extremely high efficiently made, with Bakelite housings , exterior screws and UNDER VACUUM.  Diode---coil L 1.75mh---diode--- coil L1.75 mh  ---diode---. to spark plug.  The high volts came in exactly at cathode of second diode.radiant energy release.  The technicians called them the MAGIC RELAYS. On a per cylinder basis, they were only used for the series of parts,- NOT AT ALL AS A RELAY. Hand made units fabricated by them did not work as well, so the engine conversions were dropped, since replacements are not available. In 3 months I  made up a duplicate unit in an electrical Carlon box under vacuum with the parts inside and gauge and terminals on the top. The secrets of Nathren's tech people was in the use of relays and the additional crossover voltage that made the engines run on water back at that time 2005-2008. .

The several car engines converted in Georgia also had the spark plugs changed so as zero ohms. The Champion brand ones come apart to remove resistor and replace with copper segment. The "Extra" volts (over 100) required to push the 6-7 amps through spark plugs also came from crossover inductance leakage volts. The text messages forum had a paragraph that was called "The 60 turn coils". The engine spark plug wires had 60 turns insulated #14 gauge wires over the thick insulated spark plug cables. When the plug fires, there is an induction volts into the coil that adds in series to the half-wave DC volts from the rectified DC output of the  DC to 110v AC 400W Inverter box, about 35v, DC Unfiltered. All this data must be the information that was missing years back, and not noticed.  When untrained people got hurt trying to duplicate the systems, Nathen and others changed the data on the forum, so some of it was now wrong, so as any further attempts would not work.
The S1R9A9M9 You tube videos from 2008, of the ORIGINAL Briggs 18 HP engine running on water can still be seen and heard!.

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2024, 16:46:37 pm »
                                                                      S1R9A9M9 Discrepancies And Lies, And Corrections From 2008

This section is a grouping of data collected from the YouTube videos and original web forum called Waterfuel1978, regarding mostly the  TRUE AND SUCCESSFUL 18 HP Briggs mower engine demonstrations that ran on water during summer 2008 Georgia. Those who are following this particular hydrogen gas conversion need to know these things I found out over a long period of time.

Nathren + son also Nathren, gave data as the shop work progressed through various adjustments on cars and mower engine. Majority of thousands of messages tech data is true. Once a viable system is first completed, general information is given to public, but controlled to an extent. Priority confidential parts hook ups are kept out of released info. These changes and misrepresented parts have been verified by very diligent observations of all data found over time. Here is what you missed or didn't know --- Nathren (father) was uneducated as people can see from his writings on web forum. The son WAS a technician who worked in the Georgia shop with the two technicians on projects. The  father Nathren gave impression in web forum messages that he was responsible for these conversions and gave directions to the tech people. Not so. He did not know specially how sections worked as he was not the brains behind these engine conversions. His sentences had to be gone over several times, just to figure what he had really meant. Yes, it was that bad. The conversion parts during 2008 summer demonstration were contained in a plastic deli tub, on side of engine,  spray painted gray to keep eyes out of needed information on the Briggs 18HP engine conversion to hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. There were several other parts in tub not talked about. ( figured as accessory spark gap, diodes, wire connectors. After considerable amount of my  comparisons done on this special wind of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly, It has been found out that the picture shown in color, of the coils is really the original one used in the YouTube videos , (basic frame) but modified before being shown to public on that graph paper photo. The wiring directions have also been changed,- not only of the coil itself, but also the wire ends function and hook up.  The original unit used had a BENT  steel nail as core. See photo, as original. Others are copies with straight nail. When unit was removed from engine after the 2 videos, the wires JOINT extra wire with the red and gray, was snipped off leaving a stub wire with frayed copper sticking out . You can actually see that on enlarged photo on the graph paper. This was a separate connection used on engine. An actual ground connection, because this whole thing was originally a step down autotransformer type to increase current TO spark plug with ratio step up of 7 to 20 current from  3.5 to 10 amps. The alternator without modifications was pulsing DC 3.5amps maximum. The exterior extension cord has a Y with one end hooked to ground under plug, while other end goes to the tub. The main cord plug is breached with jumper so as this becomes one very LONG wire to ground for the transformer tap point. Now the high voltage bare wire of coils assembly, hooks both to ignition and to white #12 wire to plug. This 2nd joint actually had 3 wires- white 12 gauge + bare #12 wire + red #14 gauge together.  The main other joint also had 3 sections. Power comes in on the one gray wire from both battery and alternator.  Battery start was necessary to get alternator up to idling RPM for useable current output, to get the pulsing DC from the one diode to actually run a transformer. Either AC or pulsing on + off DC will run a transformer. The red wire and High Volts go to spark plug. NOW******The original S1R9A9M9 coils unit used ( NEVER SHOWN)  had to have had 7 turns parallel wound TOGETHER with the 5 turns ignition side. That makes the whole unit a transformer with steel core under both primary and secondary. With this particular step down voltage autotransformer, the 2 coils 13T and 7T together is the full Primary. 20:7  as 20 turns to 7 turns ratio. 2.8 to 1 as step up current ratio as 3.5 amps primary side from idling alternator before transformer effect to 10amps. An autotransformer type, has 3 terminals only. Nathren had taken the original from engine and loosened- removed the RED coil from the 5 turns high V as being in parallel, and changed it to 90 degrees wind , so as there would be no core for the red wire, and then no transformer to use.  This then, does not disturb the main joint that still has the stub wire. They did not want proprietary information let out, on how their system actual worked. He then said he would later show video on how to wind one of these. What he did though, on video was a "take apart" only. It was noticed that when comparing the so called original photo,  he had removed the STUB FRAYED wire  and retaped up the joint just before the take apart. You can see this in start of video with coils setting on table. (stub removed and retaped up differently. He did not want people seeing this 3rd wire piece falling out during video. (That was the ground wire tap for an autotransformer!)


In the 1st of the (5 ) S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, you can see the power wire coming down from engine upper plastic cowl going down into the plastic tub with the high volts ignition wire. Run video at lowest speed and see open spot where the black electrical tape had pulled down exposing the 2-3 wires. The heat of summer, engine heat, and the weight of tub of parts had loosened the glue , allowing the tape to slide down. By playing video back and forth , you can see the wires actually moving around. This power source was the FIRST proof of Nathren's real video! The old battery in video 1, was poor, so he hooked up a battery charger to add volts to run the starter motor. The water hose from bottle was placed in carb top chute. The hose was pinched slightly to get proper flow of water. Engine ran best during the later part of Video number 2.  (That's the part that will make you smile!)


The purpose of the (2) 2008 videos was to show an engine running on water only, using battery for start only, then battery completely removed, with engine self running as OVERUNITY, running on formed hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. The on board ring dual alternators under flywheel powered by the normal 12 magnets provided the lower 3.5 amps that was subsequently increased to 10 amps. All the earlier technicians car engine conversions had 6-7 amps through spark plugs. The 10 was not really needed. My own triple coils made, has slightly more turns, as it will use 6 amps , but using the same level magnetic field generated, by increasing the number of turns on both sides by the same increase  ratio of current 20:1. The required timing change is based on this same level strength of MAGNETIC FIELD  to time extend the spark in milliseconds to about negative late 34 degrees. The tap to ground  runs primary as the higher turns section , with the lower turns section being the increased current side. This is what Nathren didn't want you to know. It fooled me for a long time until I figured it out.

 
The related "Smack" videos, relating to the same 2 demonstrations, show the NON original, modified type unit as it has a STRAIGHT  nail, and the joint is removed. It's the one that has the 90 degree winding. (non transformer).  Smack came 1000 miles to Nathren's property to see an engine that ran on water, but was disappointed. Nathren never intended to show how it worked. The fool Smack never even tested engine to see if it would at that time even run on gasoline. The engine had sat in garage for long time before he got there, and it had seized up valves, no compression, from not being cleaned before storage with salt water from the original 2 demonstrations. He wasn't as smart as he thought he was , just like other young guys who think they know it all.


Nathren's  other porch video was coils unit connected to engine improperly as 'in induction mode", which would never work. In the 2 original S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, the green 400watt Inverter box was NOT connected as any power. That was there, in background to mislead people watching. That box was only used on only all the car conversions using special dual coils relay per cylinder, as parts use-, not for relay type use.


I had way earlier asked him for the engine model number. (For more data for me to collect.) He did NOT comply and wanted to know WHY I wanted that. I was concerned about what type alternator was on his engine. He replied that engine did NOT have an alternator and the flywheel had no magnets to run it. More lies. (Everybody knows that all riding lawnmowers have a working alternator to recharge the battery.) He also said he purchased the engine new just for the videos. Upon closer checking of engine surface, it was dirty, and it was a used engine removed from a riding mower chassis. With the battery disconnected during both videos,-there was no way to power the engine conversion circuit. It would not work without an alternator. The salt water as electrolyte at spark plug tips, allows more current to flow  with common electrolysis at spark plug tips. During piston downward thrust, the water becomes "VOLITILE" and changes to pressure vapor and expands also for more piston pressure. This all happens during about negative 34 degrees late timing, caused by the magnetic field over the inserted bare spark plug wire part of the coils assembly. Some of the field travels down to plug tips also. Exactly at the time of You tube videos release during 2008, Nathren was truthful and properly answering questions. Abruptly he changed stories and had redesigned coil, photos,  and hook ups so as repeat performance of an engine on water would never happen again.


They said back then, the initial car V8 conversion of 1978 El Camino was on 18 miles per gallon water only, road tested for 3000 miles, using required EGR to get the Nitrogen from exhaust to improve engine performance. Engines will start and idle on water, with way lowered power output,  but no power acceleration mode unless carburetor  jet is increased/redrilled about 33% larger hole for more carburetor water to engine. With an appreciable amount of RESISTANCE OHMS  in the electrolyte being there at plug tips, (10-22 ohms) a higher volts is needed to push the 6-7-10 amps through the spark plug.  I X R = E volts needed. That's what the UNUSUAL bare #12 wire was for in the S1R9A9M9 TRIPLE COILS ASSEMBLY. It's called -----crossover leakage induction voltage , and in series with the low volts to raise it up so as full current can be realized. Nathren said several times in the forum to use 10 amps and 100 volts, but neglected to say how it was done. The several previous car conversions done there in Georgia, with zero ohms spark plugs with saltwater/ baking soda also needed a much higher volts to push 6-7 amps. The web forum had only one paragraph saying 60 turns #14 gauge insulated wire over spark plug thick insulated cable as a test for "show". I believed that was a HINT on how it was done on all those other earlier engines. (4 cyl tractor, 4 cyl car, 6 cyl car, 1978 V8 cylinder car, and the V8 engine on engine stand self powering their full electric for the workshop with large generator attached, and just  the water line. Engine ran 24 hours all the time, never shut off. Engines must have EGR with adjustable valve added . Questions?

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2024, 02:49:43 am »
Tests done recently showed a bad spark leakage in the S1R triple coils assembly. A Suzuki car ignition was used instead of the Briggs mower Magnetron ran by a spinning magnet. Therefore, either the ignition was wrong, and too high volts, or the 2008 documents +,photo of S1r coils is not EXACTLY what was used during the 2 successful Youtube Briggs engine demonstrations of running on water. (Proprietary information) I am presently assembling another S1R coil with insulated high voltage soft cable instead of bare copper wire as the original one allowed to be shown. The tests, however, did show, in general, good cross leakage induction volts on neon bulbs meter of 110-220volts and higher. The crossover is necessary in series to add to the low volts , so as it can push 6-7 amps through the spark plug electrolysis cell of 10-22 ohms electrolyte. (making hydrogen and in an engine,- water vapor pressure in addition).
The technicians and Nathren in Georgia had some kind of method they used on all those previous car engines to increase the low volts. Their diagram showed half wave DC of about 34 volts from Inverter box 110v AC. (not enough). Therefore, they may have really used a bridge rectifier for 110volts DC , and not allowing the public to know that. The shut down web forum did have a paragraph about a test for show, using 60 turns insulated #14 wire over spark plug cable for a demonstration of spark.They called it ball flash of light at plug tips. This may have been used, as cross leakage induction, on all those previous car engines that ran on water in the work shop 2005-2008. What do you think?

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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2024, 09:11:11 am »
Well, what do we think of all this.

I think, like you, that it all might have done something.
However, the question is what then.
Russ, the whole coil stuff, is and stays a sort of transformer. No matter how you wind wire around a coil, it stays and actrs the same.
When you add AC signals on top of a DC current, you super impose. You see a wobble on top of the DC line.
Thats it.
So, you pulse a coil/transformer, as S1 did, then you get a transformed current / voltage pulse out of the coil. Its that simple and no magic at all.
Thats why i asked, if you have a sort of description on how they think the process steps have been.
If you just simple try to blast a waterdrop with HV and enough current, the drop will explode. We have seen many videos on youtube doing that with help of sparkplugs and waterspray or waterdrops.
MAybe, very maybe, it was for that engine just enough to run idle, badle, as i remember the video i seen.
How to run a V8, is a mirical with that setup.
If, and only if, he was able to create Hydrogen gas or an isotope of hydrogen gas, and then added waterdrops, and then a big powerfull spark, then maybe the results have been better, as because the water will expand to a gas state, which is around 900 times bigger in volume......Expansion! And thats what turns an engine around.
So, if you could derive out all the info that you have there, similar steps as i just have given you, then it might be plausible.
Anything else does not. Just waterdrops do not work. Just HHO does works badly, as it is to quick in burning.
Waterdrops and H togehter might do the trick.

THose are my 2 cents, based on years of testing engines on water.

Cheers Russ and keep up the good work!



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Re: S1R9A9M9 18HP Briggs riding mower engine ran on water( 2008)
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2024, 23:35:51 pm »
Need data suggestions regarding small electrolysis cell of opposing plates. With 12v DC applied and 6 amps on meter to ground, it is assumed that the cell has about 2 ohms electrical resistance. E / I = R. When electrodes are changed to 1/8th size, the amperage reduces on meter. Does this assume that the cell, without any other changes, has HIGHER resistance? (It's the same electrolyte and spacing distance) If voltage is increased to 60 volts, the cell may produce the same amount of hydrogen gas, at 6 amps again. R X I = E volts. What do you think?
The S1R9A9M9 engine conversions of 2005-2012 all used the engine spark plug tips as the water cell electrodes of electrolysis to Hydrogen gas fuel. The old forum said that 100 volts was needed at 10 amps, on the lawn mower engine. The 3 technicians in Georgia work shop did all the CAR conversions with 6-7 amps current flow, using box Inverter at 110v AC changed to either full wave or half wave DC.   Garage oscilloscope was used on engine tests. The number of cylinders determines the amount of wattage pulled, due to the duty cycle of firings of plugs. (Not full wattage) The 18HP Briggs was at only flywheel 34% duty cycle. Wattage times .34 power draw.

Original question only asked about HOW to get the same current flow through an electrolysis cell with smaller electrodes,- MAYBE by increasing voltage to 60 volts? Everybody already knows about huge inefficiencies involved as is very old style process. Salt water at gap increases resistance of 10-22 ohms against a zero ohms gap as bench tested. Years back, 2005-2012, technicians in Georgia said that 100 volts at 6-7 amps was needed for electrolysis using salt water and very small electrodes. There was also talk about injecting a Plasma Path using high volts pulse to allow a low volts current to pass. Measurements were done with oscilloscope probe. I wanted to know if this was true about increasing the voltage input. The web forum was closed down 2019.
 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2024, 02:01:44 am by russrHHO »