Author Topic: HHO Foam  (Read 1702 times)

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HHO Foam
« on: December 10, 2012, 05:52:24 am »
q4arkiver4hho:  The NIST copy is missing. Did you have an archive copy?  thorzpower says it is signed out to SNL.

                            Now that irondmax has posted  at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsI5guwc88Q&list=UUEGe7GasoADRNz6wfHM91sQ&index=11
                            the cat is out of the bag.  tm ref 05:16  As I recall  it was originally indexed with title " Applications of HHO foam in Construction,Mining and Deep Well Gas Extraction",
                            but as you well know the Gaithersburg facility occasionally misfiles items. ;)
                       
                            Changes in the viscosity of the soap film  would affact the stability of the foam, but rate of detonation is essentially almost instantaneous,
                            In this case, one has a gaseous phase containing both the fuel and oxidizer, stabilized within a liquid/foam. This is in contrast to the work that
                            the DOD/USAF  was doing in the 1960's  with O/W/O or W/O/W emulsion systems for JP4 to reduce flammabilty on impact. The HHO is essentially
                            a binary mixture whereas the JP4  in the emulsions has its rate of reaction with the oxidizer (atmospheric oxygen ) slowed because it only has the fuel not the
                            oxidizer within the foam/emulsion matrix.

                           The rate of combustion is much faster in a binary foam than  one in which  the fuel must mix with the air. Example: Methane only foam--

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXcug7RqPgs

                           Anyway,see if  you still  have it somewhere in that 16 (or was it 20 TB?) system or yours :)

                            regards

                          --------------------------------

a4thorzpower: sandia24 says a friend from the Dover NJ P.A. compared it to other LEs in sand tests  for brisiance
                          if well confined and pendulum tests, but  it was found not suitable for field use because of long term stability issues.
                         On site generation for hydraulic forming of  metal parts was one application they had tried but other methods were
                         developed were less risky and more cost effective.  It was most useful when placed within a tube on top of water
                         and then the tube was placed  around or within a slightly larger or smaller die. The changes in the volume of the gas above the
                         water would deform the metal against the die. It may have been negative pressure. Similar in concept to
                         "fireforming" a cartridge.
--------------------------------------------------------
q4arkiver4hho 22122012 need the following ref
 Применение жестких микросотовой органических биопленки легче воздуха пены
транспортных устройств
 Apparently there were some incompatablities with
the PVA-PEG graft copolymers  of the sea gel and the mylar sheathing for the aerogel structural members. A cyanoacrylate
wash or sizing seemed to solve it however.

The photogrammetrics came  back at   30.5  metres long, 4 metres high, 8 metres wide.
                       
                           
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 15:21:39 pm by jim miller »

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Re: HHO Foam
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 14:34:51 pm »
Jim,

Whats this topic about ?


Steve

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Re: HHO Foam
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 23:29:24 pm »
The inflammable nature of gas or petroleum products is modified by encapsulating the gas/liquid  such as acetylene,HHO,or JP4
within a foamor water/oil emulsion or multiple emulsion. I was trying to track down an old  NIST publication reference by a shout out
 to one of my research gurus.

The  two youtube references show and contrast  the varied type rate of ignition between  foam encapsulated inflammable gases
and somewhat explosive nature of HHO foam. The inclusion of the oxidizer within foam matrix increases the rate of burn.
whereas,in the methane foam ,the rate of combustion methane is more gradual due to the lack of oxygen dispersed within the
methane foam matrix.  The Mythbusters telly episode shows the slower rate of combustion of a methane foam tower.
Do not attempt with HHO for this quantity of foam.  I was shocked to see the experimenter IronDMax hold it in his hand and
ignite it. Had he been foolish enough to have  tightly cupped or confined a larger amount it his hands and ignited it,
he might  well be counting up to 4 on both hands!


The localized overpressure  and sound resulting from the ignition of ah HHO tower the size of the methane tower  in a 
very confined or restricted space would  likely result in deafness and  possible  lethal  or severe internal organ rupture
in extreme cases
 ---------------------------------------------------------
See what 8 liters sounds like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NormCh8jQTg. or  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tbbDlxZiyE Outside and
fifty feet away it was loud. The foam methane tower had an estimated 15,000 cubic inches (uncompressed gas) or over 240 liters--30 times
the amount of gas that our UAW friend used. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lyvvH76A0w&feature=endscreen&NR=1
At least he was not close and  had the good sense to use eye and ear protection.

The 8 miles per second claim works out to over 41,000 fps, much higher than Stan Meyers figures. The increase in temperature was
interesting. Was it heat transfer from the explosion or a increase in the temperature of the black chair which now had a portion exposed to the sun
and subject to solar insolation? The use of a white chair might answer this.
-------------------------------------------------------------

" It may have some application in the construction, mining and now ,  gas drilling industry as well as limited DOD uses, but as an assist
to hydraulic metal deformation, it may have  shown some promise .Although, apparently other methods ultimately proved to be more useful and
safer for that application, it apparently proved most successful when the foam was placed  on top of water within a tube and the tube subsequently
placed in a slightly larger die. The rapid change in the volume of gas would press down (or pull up )and hydraulically press the tube against the die
similar to what is known  in home reloading circles as "fireforming" a cartridge."

q4sandia24:  ask aberdeengreen if wind dispersal problems or flashburn and permanent auditory damage were the reasons  for the termination
                        of the program. What kind of person "volunteers" for testing at ARL? Not me!! ;)

a4sandia24: The image is blurry  but the photogrammetrics put it at 8 metres across and 12 metres tall and  foam bubble size was much larger.  The color
                       of one of the tanks to right  of one of the foam generators was red with red dot shoulder diamond which may indicate hydrogen supplementation to
                       the HHO mix(which makes sense  for the LTA  characteristics.) A larger bubble size would reduce the gas to foam matrix  weight ratio further
                       enhancing in LTA lift .

                       One of the other tanks has the newer EU  two  color markings  As to its position, it  was floating about 10 metres above the roof of the test vehicle
                       The uneven top edge of the foam and tilt may indicate the effects of wind shear. The string like drips are probably the drainage through the
                       foam and the mammatus pouches indicating a generally higher foam density  at the bottom. The shredding at the top may also be an indication
                       of greater instabilty at the upper levels due to film drainage. The three steering tethers pantone comes back  OD ( milspec 550 cord?) The lighter
                       circular areas are probably embedded weather balloons which function as attachment points. There were no identifiable flora but several of the
                       foreground rocks had flat faces. (One was like a triangular column which is indicative of long term windblown sand) AZ/NM/ARL?
                       
                       

 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 23:52:24 pm by jim miller »