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Projects by members => Projects by members => Steve => Topic started by: Steve on November 04, 2008, 21:56:56 pm
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Hi,
Well, you all seen my platecell and my running engine on that.
One of the things i still had on my todo list was a Bob Boyce like circuit.
In one of the discussions with another member (Electrojolt) the idea came to make
a circuit that had a oscillator and some deviders to get a totally synchrone output of the 42, 21 and 10khz waves.
The other target was to have a 10% uptime in the dutycycle.
I have now this circuit designed were it is possible to change the oscillator frequency from around 40 till 45khz
The other 2 channels stay synchrone and change also up or low.
Here are 2 pictures.
Still to come is the toroid. I am working on it, but it is a nasty piece of work, if you wanna do it right.
br
Steve
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Can you vary the phase like a Boyce PWM?
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Yes we can phase shift in 36 degrees increments.
Bob's PWM G board doesn't not sync the 3 frequencies.
Now the HEX board does both, sync and phase shift. but is also a little more complicated to build.
This circuit that we are testing is very simple and anyone can make one.
now we just have to test it with a cell and toroid.
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Can you please post the circuit you are using stevie
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Can you please post the circuit you are using stevie
Yes, i can. Here it is.
It took me me 2.5hours to draw it...... ;)
As you can see, i do not have a circuit design program, but instead of that i used MS Visio.
br
Steve
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Great Job Stevie, this is a master piece!!!
Electrojolt
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Steve
Very nice job. ;D
A lot less complicated than the bob boyce circuit.
Spike
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Spike and Claudio:
You are too kind my friends! ;)
br
Steve
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Thanks Stevie. great work! simpler than bob`s and yet does the job.
Hm
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Ok,
The final circuitboard is ready.
I added the switches. In stead of 10 options, i use 5.
So, the dipswitches have a double function.
If you use 1 dipswitchsetting, you have a dutycycle of 10%
If you use 2 switchessettings, you have a dutycycle of 20% etc etc.
So, you can can play with fixed dutycycles between 0 and 50 with use of 5 switchessettings.
If you use the 10% and start with the middle dipswitch setting. (nr.3 of the switch) you will have the
possibility to change phase up and down in steps of 10%. So max 20% up or down.
The circuit, with exception of the FETs are voltage controlled by the 7812 regulator. This means that
you can use a variable powersupply to the board. This way you can have between the 12 and 30V on the primary coils of the toroid for tuning purposes!
The frequency's are made by 1 oscillatorchip and the 3 harmonic channels are fully in sync with eachother because of that.
The base frequency is adjustable, so you can play with that as well. This means that for example you can have on channel a range from 40 till 45khz.
here moree pics!
br
Steve
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Hey Stevie, great Idea of the deep switches :)
Can you check the output voltage when you have 20% duty cycle?
The reason I ask, is because when I 1st put this circuit toguether, and doing that (20%) my output voltage would drop to 1/2.
I was using 5 volts.
I found some scope photos that I took when I tested it.
you can see how we can phase shift the 3 frequencies
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Hey Stevie, great Idea of the deep switches :)
Can you check the output voltage when you have 20% duty cycle?
The reason I ask, is because when I 1st put this circuit toguether, and doing that (20%) my output voltage would drop to 1/2.
I was using 5 volts.
I found some scope photos that I took when I tested it.
you can see how we can phase shift the 3 frequencies
Yes, you are right that the voltage output of the 4017 drops. Thats why i use 12V for the circuit.
The output must still be ok for steering the FETS. But tests will tell. Otherwise we perhaps have to use 3 FET driver chips. I still have those here on stock....
Great pics!
br
Steve
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Finally the toroid is done!
See here 2 pics.
On my scope i ll see very nice spikes when measured on the secondairy coil.
So, it was time to hook all up to my platecell.
Sadly enough, my first run didnt show any improvements at all.
I must be doing something wrong.
Its a long way that i travelled....seems i have more miles to go!
br
Steve
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omg i cant believe you made that... way too expensive setup... No OU ... needs electrolyte...
the roroid alone made me back off....
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Finally the toroid is done!
See here 2 pics.
On my scope i ll see very nice spikes when measured on the secondairy coil.
So, it was time to hook all up to my platecell.
Sadly enough, my first run didnt show any improvements at all.
I must be doing something wrong.
Its a long way that i travelled....seems i have more miles to go!
br
Steve
I'm assuming you tested with the new board posted above, 2 caps and using 3 heavy duty chokes as Bob Boyce recommends?
Did you also try various phase shifts?
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The questions is: What would actually happen here?
How can i see that it works or not?
Yes, i have almost 1000uF on my ripled dc output.
The only thing i do not have, are the heavy duty chokes.
If i look at the schematic, my cell gets a almost flat DC thru a coil (secondairy of the toroid).
The 3 primary coils should pulse so that the target voltage of my cell is hit.
So, my cell needs 180V
The step up calc of the prim to sec should also meet the 180V
Well, all is done.
I did some phase shifting. I did some good looking at my scopes.
I did some measuring at my cell.
Well, at my cell, i really do not see anything. NO SPIKES at all.
I can adjust almost everything on this setup.
Not sure where to look at....or for....
Anybody who can assist me here?
br
Steve
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I never trust step by step pdf ..... these are made by the MIB .... they have hidden glitches that end up never working.
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it wont work with out the choke
also did you use the teflon coated silver plate copper wire
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Finally the toroid is done!
See here 2 pics.
On my scope i ll see very nice spikes when measured on the secondairy coil.
So, it was time to hook all up to my platecell.
Sadly enough, my first run didnt show any improvements at all.
I must be doing something wrong.
Its a long way that i travelled....seems i have more miles to go!
br
Steve
i Just want someone that i can trust that did the bob boyce electrolyser and say it is working and here is the proof .BoB boyce is still alive why don't he make a youtube video and show every body and explain to everybody what he did and show his results .
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it wont work with out the choke
also did you use the teflon coated silver plate copper wire
so it worked with you so you have more production ???????
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it wont work with out the choke
also did you use the teflon coated silver plate copper wire
No, i did not. Because copper is very good as well. The difference is not that mucho.
Have you tried to compare it?
br
steve
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no i have not tried the difference between the wire but it is said alot that it will not work with out that wire
the wire also cannot be spliced
i paid about a month ago for the newest version of bobs hex controller as of the other day i was going to get skype some pictures of it in the building process but my skype is not working properly so i didnt get them yet but i will show you some pics when i do
hydrogen garage now sells the toroids wound for 450 or 475
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no i have not tried the difference between the wire but it is said alot that it will not work with out that wire
the wire also cannot be spliced
i paid about a month ago for the newest version of bobs hex controller as of the other day i was going to get skype some pictures of it in the building process but my skype is not working properly so i didnt get them yet but i will show you some pics when i do
hydrogen garage now sells the toroids wound for 450 or 475
whats the deal with the silver plated???
WOW 475!!!! ouch
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the silver plating allows the amps to be carried along the outside of the wire
also today i got a 5.5 horse briggs ohv to run for 8 minutes
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it dosent get replicated cause it cost a few thousand dollars to make the set properly
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it dosent get replicated cause it cost a few thousand dollars to make the set properly
what people expect to have a system that produce free energies foe 9.99...
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it dosent get replicated cause it cost a few thousand dollars to make the set properly
what people expect to have a system that produce free energies foe 9.99...
this produces a maximum of 50% fuel economy
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acttualy from what i heard the setup should run a 350 chevy motor on hydroxy alone
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well what you see everyone buying on the net and is a bob boyce set up is not the one that he acttually uses to accomplish this he has a totally different controller that is fully adjustable from 0 to what ever duty cycle and the frequency are what ever you want them to be cause it is all set with a microcontroller that can be changed by your pc as of now their are less than 20 of them in existance
that is also another reason why people dont replicat his set up
i dont know for sure if it will run a 350 chevy but i have bought one of the hex controllers and am planning on trying it to see
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actually , somebody who replicated meyers tipped me off about the true missing link of meyers
And it doesnt have anything to do with this.
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actually , somebody who replicated meyers tipped me off about the true missing link of meyers
And it doesnt have anything to do with this.
good luck waiting for your result so i can replicate it ;D
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actually , somebody who replicated meyers tipped me off about the true missing link of meyers
And it doesnt have anything to do with this.
good luck waiting for your result so i can replicate it ;D
Lol you crazy ? i dont want to piss off the MIB
Besides... people are too lazy , all they wanna do is replicate , i cant encourage this kind of attitude .
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Ok so here my small contribution to the Forum i designed Steve/electrojolt PCB of the scematic the Steve provide in a couple of days i will post a picture that with the layout of the components .
Najman
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Hi najman,
nicely done!
br
steve
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the silver plating allows the amps to be carried along the outside of the wire
also today i got a 5.5 horse briggs ohv to run for 8 minutes
hi dudly,
can you make a vid of that briggs running along with your cell? That works motivating!
br
steve
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i was going to make a video today or tommorow i just have to make a new bubbler i will post a link
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Hi najman,
Thanks for doing this PCB design,
This is what I call good open sourcing, everyone helps.
Stevie, sorry to hear the set up did work, but don't give up.
I really think we will need the 2 heavy chokes.
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I think Stevie has come a long way and has done most of the hard work already (especially winding the monstrous Toroid) I don't have the specs of chokes used in Bob's circuit, but creating one (maybe use from Meyer VIC) should be worth a try.
Some of the differences I see between Stevie's testing and Bob's circuit are as follows, but don't know if it's a must for Bob's three frequencies to work:
1. Bob uses a lot of neutral plates
2. Bob uses the open bath design, whereas Stevie might be using his dry cell
3. Bob uses 3 heavy duty chokes
4. Bob uses 28% KOH by weight
Maybe someone can contact Bob and ask for help?
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I think there is a mistake in the bob setup schematic.
Why would anybody put strait dc into a toroidcoil?
Why would anybody wants to use that same coil as secundairy of his trafo?
br
steve
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Ok, this is my setup:
53 plates of 30cm by 10cm 304 plates (12 inch by 4 inch)
Its a drycell type, meaning fully sealed on all edges.
0,5mm gap between plates (0.022inch)
I use tapwater or wellwater.
Toroid: 110mm O.D. or 4.3 inches
52mm I.D or 2 inches
40mm high or 1.57 inches
3x Primairy:
3x 38 turns of 0.8mm (20 gauge)
1x Secondairy:
124 turns of 1.2mm (16.5 gauge)
Both are emailled copperwire
Accoording to the D9.pdf:
How much volts consumes the cell COLD at 2 amps: 180V strait dc with caps(really flat DC)
Calculation:
180V / 4 = 45V
45V / 13.8V = 3.26
124/3.26 = 38 turns
Today i took the capacitors off the powersupply.
Now i see something happening.
Its a rimpled rectified unstabilized DC.
Meaning, the bumps of the unstabilized DC are filled with rimples or peaks.
See pictures and vid.
Any comments on my setup?
Is this what it should look like?
Br
Steve
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Ok, i admit..
I made a measurement mistake, yesterday.
The probe of the scope was hooked up to the bridge recitifier and not on the WFC.
I made that correction and i did some fideling with my new Bob toy.
Here are some vids of my scope. Some shots are pretty nice.
Ps. My scope is at the end of his life cycle....but it still gives me some info.. ;)
br
Steve
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Videos 0, 1, 2,3 and 7 are done without use of smoothing capacitor
Others videos are done with cap.
br
Steve
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Next steps:
Tuning primary coils. Specially the 42khz is too weak in my case. Goal: make all peaks the same on the scope.
Also i read that i forgot the heavy duty chokes. Well, i have those here, so thats easy added.
br
Steve
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I played with chokes on the powerlines as descriped by Bob Boyce.
I see clearly on the scope less polution on the cell measured.
I also tuned the circuit so, all signals are in phase.
See pics. As you can see, the volts are multiplied when the peaks fall over eachother...Thats why the 10khz is higher.
Even at 20 or 30V on the FETS, the amps are lower then 1. Maybe i need take some windings of the primairys, so more amps will be pulled and the greater the magnetic fields can become and the higher the voltage burst on the secondairy.
br
Steve
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Since Bob talks about Scalar waves, here is something that I'm reading
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/scalar.htm
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Stevie ...
if you need to do another sketch of a PCB layout google ExpressPCB
they have a free layout program you can use for all your PCB needs, plus they will even etch your designs if you want.
MoreHP ; )
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Stevie ...
if you need to do another sketch of a PCB layout google ExpressPCB
they have a free layout program you can use for all your PCB needs, plus they will even etch your designs if you want.
MoreHP ; )
Thanks Morehp!
br
Steve
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As promised PCB layout and a YOutube video ;D ;D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8G2Gmm4GNQ
Najman
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Are you planning to test the board, toroid and entire circuit? Don't forget the THREE chokes as Bob Boyce recommends.
This video seems to show very good production at certain frequency. Do you have a MMW for it?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TiZo0UU8_qE&feature=channel
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Hi Najman,
i think i understand what you gonna here.
You use 3 coils. One coil for each channel of the board?
I just see 1 fet on yr board, am i right?
br
steve
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Are you planning to test the board, toroid and entire circuit? Don't forget the THREE chokes as Bob Boyce recommends.
This video seems to show very good production at certain frequency. Do you have a MMW for it?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TiZo0UU8_qE&feature=channel
this was a combination off 12 plates +-+-+-+-+-+- and it was a test to proove that my PWM works Thats it No MMW but I can tell you amps reached 80....
yes i will be testing it that swhy i build it but not ala bob boyce ,as i said in the end of the vid i will be harvesting the BEMF.
Najman
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Hi Najman,
i think i understand what you gonna here.
You use 3 coils. One coil for each channel of the board?
I just see 1 fet on yr board, am i right?
br
steve
Yes Stevie That is write each channel for a coil ,and i will be using 3 fet on the board they are not installed yet ,the on you see with a heat sink is a 12 volt coltage regulator.
Najman
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Hi najman,
I have a tip for you. In our forum archive are some schematics on how to crowbar bemf into yr circuit.
Hydrocars and me use doublewindings on the core and in comby with that crowbar diode, we gained the bemf.
br
steve
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najman,
Great job! Lets see if we can make this circuit help production.
Electrojolt
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najman,
Great job! Lets see if we can make this circuit help production.
Electrojolt
I hope so i will keep you updated .
thanks
Najman
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Hi Steve thanks for the pointer to this part, I will have do do some reading but it looks good, now i saw mentioned the HEX controller, I asked Bob but he would not sell, gave me some story about 'its to powerful', well when I get time I will have to look into it, unless you have a working one.
aussepom
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Hi,
I found this information on the forum of Wouter.
It was on my topic on the bob circuit that Electrojolt and i made.
The frequencys suggested are 620 630 and 12000
just read it. I think its for ionizing the air or gasses and not for water.
Br
Steve