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Projects by members => Projects by members => Steve => Topic started by: Steve on June 29, 2008, 10:07:52 am
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Hi,
I have build the circuit and i have the trafo and HV probe for my scope.
Still to build is the bifcoil accoording to the JL specs.
Also need destilled water... ;D ;D
Br
Steve
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while your at it,, post them transformer primary and secondary windings and wire gauge so we want be left in the dark..
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Well,
Thats what i will do after i made a SUCCESFULL replication....
But to help you out, the toroid trafo is a 12V 4amp in and 230V out type of Velleman
;) ;)
br
Steve
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Looks good Stevie. Hope to see resonance.
Where can I buy a non super expensive HV probe. I found this one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/One-new-100MHZ-Oscilloscope-clip-probe-x100-up-to-4KV_W0QQitemZ280082119735QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
Is 4Kv max good for this? what do you suggest ?
Hmask
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Looks good Stevie. Hope to see resonance.
Where can I buy a non super expensive HV probe. I found this one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/One-new-100MHZ-Oscilloscope-clip-probe-x100-up-to-4KV_W0QQitemZ280082119735QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
Is 4Kv max good for this? what do you suggest ?
Hmask
Hmask,
I have the same hopes.! ;)
My probe is:
Tektronix P6015A
High Voltage Oscilloscope Probe, 20kV, 75MHz, X1000, 10 ft. long Cable
New price: $1,450.00
http://www.testpath.com/Items/High-Voltage-Oscilloscope-Probe-20kV-75MHz-X1000-10-ft-long-Cable-117-551.htm
And NO. I didnt pay that for it....i bought it on a local ebay site in my country for 150 US dollars.
I think that 4KV is not enough.....sorry. This because i think that we will start here with 2KV and probably end up much higher, as soon as we understand it all. Stan talked about 20KV......
br
Steve
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Ok,
Some technotes from me.
transformer toroid 12v / 230V
Capacitance of SS tube cell: 1nF19
Inductance of Bifcoil: 120uH each coil so totall inductance should be 240uH
resistance: not measurable
Calculated resonance: around 300khz ?
Diode: BY329 (1200V) (fast switching)
My circuit doesnt run on 300khz so i think i have to get me a bigger and longer SS tube for more capacitance.....
No results, yet.
br
Steve
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where did you buy your transformer from?=
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where did you buy your transformer from?=
local store!
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i guess no results?
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i guess no results?
No...same sad story
High volts always dies in water..
br
steve
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remember it's not just high voltage....it's steps of high voltage stacking on top of each other until enough static electricity has formed to pressure the water into splitting....at the moment when current would kick in it is cut off....so for that one second current is at it's highest and the static build plus that kick of current knocks the water off and it is dropped back to zero volts in the water cap.....this is why his cell would not heat up since he never let the current just stay on.....i think within tomorrow or the next day i will have my ferrite rods and i will either join you guys in the sad story or have successfully replicated it......i have everything perfect so far.
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H20Power,
I use a pump in my platecell system.
You can observe that amps go down as soon as the speed of water is too high.
What would you suggest we do with this waterpumping stuff?
I can imaging that with higher speed, we also can use higher volts, till some level.
Not sure what effect that will have.
br
steve
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i guess no results?
High volts always dies in water..
Well what do you mean with that?
If you have a high voltage source and charge a capacitor with it, everythings fine, but if you use water as a dielectricum it won't work anymore? sounds strange.
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i guess no results?
High volts always dies in water..
Well what do you mean with that?
If you have a high voltage source and charge a capacitor with it, everythings fine, but if you use water as a dielectricum it won't work anymore? sounds strange.
I mean, that if you try to use higher volts and less amps on a wfc, the voltage collapses towards 2 volts.
This, because the WFC acts as a resistor. A very low one.
Low resistance, means high amps. If not available, the volts collapses.
br
steve
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The thing is, the wfc should have a pretty high resistance (several megaohs or at least kiloohms) and in a resonating circuit the overall resistance even gets higher.
Strange
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alright h2opower.....while pondering before sleep last night i had an idea.....now i remeber that meyers said that what controls the burn rate of hydrogen is the non combustible gases in between such as argon and other gases in our atmosphere......so instead of making the fuel cell just straight vacuum sealed with one outlet why not make an inlet port so it would actually suck air from the outside of the fuel cell through the water adn out to the manifold......so in a sense the fuel cell would be sucking ambient air through the water getting all that argon and ambient non combustible gases and the hydrogen and oxygen that has been split by the cell, but it would also keep the water flowing in and upwards direction......meyers did this in his final product but instead of sucking in ambient gases he sucked in the exhaust fumes to have them reput into the cell.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/fuelcell120.jpg)
#153 on here is the exhaust gas recylcer.
and if you were wondering #154 is the electron extraction circuit.
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WOW YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT I AM TRULY SORRY I SOME HOW MIXED THIS UP.....SO MUCH READING MY MEMORY HAS BLENDED......YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT 153 BEING A FILTERING SYSTEM THAT ACTS AS A WATERING PUMP.....but remeber that was not used in his prior cells to get it to work.....that was an added feature much like a steam resonator which is not need to make the system work......
now about hte exhaust being reused becuase of the valued non combustibles......that air was recirculated into the intake system not the water system that was my blending slip up.....I AM SORRY. THANK YOU FOR CATCHING THIS.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/exhaustrecirculation.jpg)
but some of hte non combustible gases could be dissolved in the water....if not purified......or they could be introduced through the air system and never endingly (if that's a word) recirculated.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/noncombustible.jpg)
they escape into the injectors.....as here.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/triggering.jpg)
non combustible gases.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/wholeshebang.jpg)
they control the burn rate.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/noncombustinjection.jpg)
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that basically sums up what im trying to do also.
now there is a mystery here......in meyers middle patents he had hte air processor and the water fuel cell hooked up to a car system running into the carberator, but it still wasn't cutting it.....so he made everything happen right at the cylinder......as this one guy stated on youtube its not the burning of the hho which gives you the enormous power otput but the expansion from water to hho and the burning all at once which is why meyer had everything happen at the cylinder......if we could get this to happen at the cylinder and then used a pulsed voltage to ignite the product......this is what is his instant thermal explosion.....it just seemed to happen instantly......but i don't think we are capable at this moment in time of machining these spark plug replacements.....so here is the intended plan incredibyl similiar if not the same exact plan as yours.
first off now in number 2 your idea of an ultra sonic fogger might be damn damn good.....but for now i want to see if the fuel cell itself might supply enough water vapor under vacuum to feed to the plasma plugs.....
but more doesn't hurt......so let's put that on the drawing board.
second......we need to get plasma plugs up to "firestorm" potential........as krupa has said it will burn anything and everything in the cylinder.....just as the geet fuel processor can use any fuel that can be vaporized due to it's plasma field.
third number 3 will be the largest challenge to build.....the amount of energy need to bump electrons up to a higher orbit than remove the electron via the "electron extraction circuit" will be a hard thing to crack.....i don't understand the concept of but common sense tells me that just make a field of a positive charge to have it extract the electrons.......you will know this works when something like a light bulb begins to glow......then we have it working!
fourth the exhaust system will most likley be pretty standard.....we could take say 1/4th of the exhaust and have it recirculated so no computers or electronic controls would be needed just simple physical properties such as a pipe diverting 1/4th the exhaust back into the intake system.
and once again as krupa has stated that he has gotten his gasoline powered car with plasma plugs to a ratio of 30:1 while testing......once we have hydrogen matched to the burn rate of gasoline than we can tweak it in the same ratio sense.....even farther improving our efficeincy.......
we can match and even surpass meyers final injector system by using his non injector method with plasma introduced.......this will open up a whole new door......combining the ideas of meyers, pantone, an krupa.....we are getting closer and closer everyday.......
the guys over at overunity working on the plasma plugs are doing a damn good job......they are covering that quite well......
the fuel cell should be completely replicated within the next 2 days at most.....the damn mail is slacking......our focus should turn towards the ionizer.......
now about your coils.....you should only need one.....since all the power is coming from one transformer there is no need to split it up it will just decrease the power in each coil by the amount of coils added and decrease the magnetic inductance since less current will be running through each coil...either way teh same amount of power is going through all of them as if it would be just one supplying all 9 tubes with it...and remember in the international study report there was only one bifilar wound core in the box used for the 9 tube set......(if you are lost by this i can explain what is going on with meyers cell about current and voltage performing work there is a common misconception about how to apply voltage to do work.)
so i am with you on working around not being able to create a water fuel injector, but by utilizing all the things you have listed.
and as for the photos, i just print screen and then paste it into photoshop cut it down and upload it.
when are you going to get hands on i would love to see you do the ideas you have since some of the things you come up with might even be an entirely new process.
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I have been delayed, bad crank bad block.
Keep up the good work... Meanwhile. What did stan use the steam resonator for? 6 tube cell with 1 amp say 130 volts will consume water very rapidly into steam. Also this method will make water gun, on demand steam stop start super heated water gushes.
example 1 9 inch long tub cell will consume 10 to 15 amps for 4 seconds, thats how long it takes to super heat the water. once heated hydroxy stops and super heat begins, amps then drop to 1. then, the water boils out so rapidly you cant keep it in the tube.
Just a something to study.
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to hydrocars the steam resonator just kept the water from freezing by making the water move...kinetic energy and kinetic friction thus the water cannot freeze.....it was an add on for people that live in cold areas.
remember the circuits draws amperage up to the bifilar coil, where everything after that draws near zero current....the cell draws nothing but the magnetic cores do.....that's how they work.....look where meyers places his amp meter.......
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Now I feel as if I am the only one that read the patent fully, for I really trust your judgement, but you got this one wrong. Perhaps you just over looked it, right? #144 and #153 hook up to figure #3-45 Electrostatic filter Assy, and the water is flowing through the system from top to bottom and back again. I am not sure how this thing works but I know the direction of water flow. And it shows that water is flowing through the system just as water flows through Kelvin Generators.
I am not sure why Meyer put the Non-combustable gases in there for he shows no way they got in there. Maybe perhaps of gases already present in the water, you know disolved in solution, and he is accounting for them.
The way I am setting up the WFC it will be able to be pulled into any place needed by the user, it should be able to take pressure and vacuum. I am going to hook it up like Dr. Dingel has his hooked up so it will be under a vacuum but anyone can make this cell I will share the designes, just note that it is a prototype and needs testing.
I have to make the Gas Processor, this one I am going to do just as Meyer has shown if I can figure out the measurements, and latter on I will modify the cars EGR valve so it too can be like Meyer's. One step at a time for me kinda sucks that time is running out with the North American Union stuff, for it looks like we have until Feb but the economy might fold by Christmas, we all are going to have to wait and see.
Energy independence we must make it happen,
h2opower.
Hi H2Opower,
Question: were did you find that electrostatic filter drawing?
I cannot remember ever seen that one..
br
steve
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I agree with Hydrocars,
If water can be broken into HHO using voltage potential as stated by Stan, water would have to be in gas form (steam).
This is when water molecules are not bonded to each other.
As hydrocars mentioned, when water starts boiling AMPS will go down, and you can up the voltage and AMPs will drop a little more.
as you can see in this video:
http://electrojolt.com/cracked.wmv
It started at 50 volts, and ended at 130 volts, and at 130 volts AMPs went down.
This matches Stans Graph about Amp Restriction.
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water does not have to be in gas form to be broken down.....steam....no......no no no.....this is not meyers method.
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water does not have to be in gas form to be broken down.....steam....no......no no no.....this is not meyers method.
How do you know? Have you replicated Stan's process?
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water does not have to be in gas form to be broken down.....steam....no......no no no.....this is not meyers method.
How do you know? Have you replicated Stan's process?
im just not guessing and claiming everything ot be a mystery i've read his documents.....you should try it........it will alleviate all your what ifs and possibilities with WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON......stan never took the water in his FUEL CELL turned it into steam by heating it up and then breaking it apart with voltage potential.....that's juts not what happened.....read the technical brief it's the only document you will truely need.
and as for replicating it.......i will make a video within the week....it all depends on u.s. customs.
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water does not have to be in gas form to be broken down.....steam....no......no no no.....this is not meyers method.
exactly. workin on water injectors or this stuff or trying to replicate the waterfuelcell (well known by the videos) are different things.
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Kinesisfilms,
Don't take this the wrong way. I just asked a question and you got all defencive.
Yes I have read Stan's documents, yes in theory they make sence, and yes I have tested many of his theories but in reallity it does not work.
Hydrocars has pointed this out several times but no one cared to listen.
That International Independent Test Evaluation Report reveals something interesting.
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/ForumPDFs/International%20Independent%20Test%20Evaluation%20Report.pdf
Page 60, it shows the calculations to quantify how much Gas the WFC generated and it bases the calculations on the "Fact" that 1Lb (PSI) in a one liter cavity = one liter of gas.
Now I ask: is this Fact the truth?
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see here is the problem......everyone is trying to use no amps all voltage throughout there entire setup......look where stan places his amp meter......it's not a the source......the circuits alone have to draw over 1 amp just for the inductance cores to transfer the magnetic field properly...........the circuits draw the amps then at the bifilar coil it holds everything back........the cell draws near nothing.......the cell does not get hot..........
everyone has been applying the voltage potential in other means.......remember your not cutting back current to zero......on your input from the source.
and as for page 60 in the international study report......THE FUEL CELL WILL NOT AND CANNOT RUN A CAR.......maybe idle and that's where it ends..........
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT......so yes the amount of gas coming out of the cell will be a mere nothing if the engine is brought beyond idling.....depending on the engine...
THE COMMON MISCONCEPTION AMONG THESE HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS IS THAT THEY CAN RUN A CAR SOLELY ON WATER....stan never ran a car DOWN THE STREET ON JUST HIS FUEL CELL......do you think he just made all this other crap for fun?.......he even ended up getting rid of his fuel cell in his final inejctor method.......get that?....no more fuel cell at all.....the injectors took there place at the cylinder.
you really really need to read the technical brief.....IT'S AS IF STAN WANTED EVERYONE TO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS.
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Ok, now I do agree with you, "and as for page 60 in the international study report......THE FUEL CELL WILL NOT AND CANNOT RUN A CAR.......maybe idle and that's where it ends.........."
But you still didn't get my point.
How much HHO in terms of LPM is 1 Psi per minute in a one liter cavity? as stated in that document.
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it tells you clearly......1,000 cc = 1 liter......you can even try googling it....it's just a conversion factor that they are telling the average person......am i still not udnerstanding you?.....this page only shows the efficiency difference of the voltage potential cell versus electrolysis......being 1,696 times more efficient than the electrolysis factors they chose......now the factors they chose for the electrolysis could be say theoretically only 40 percent efficient to faradays......
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/page60.jpg)
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Ok, Now I did this test:
Filled up my cell with water, then removed exactly one liter of water, so that gives me the one liter cavity.
Ran the cell for one minute, 12 volts at 15 AMPS.
It build up 15PSI of pressure.
the 15 PSI of pressure was only able to fill a one litter bottle with HHO.
If don't beliave me, do the test your self. it is very easy.
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Well i'd calculate the efficiency by energy density, in another thread i asked for a good way of measuring efficiency and i dont know where the kinda weird 2.3Wh/l come from. You know that you put in W=U*I Joules of energy and you are getting out a measured amount of gas (depends on pressure of course, but there is good data on wikipedia), that should be easy.
i for one would not try to transfer 15 psi of 1 liter gas into a calculation by filling into another bottle, there will be gas left in the cavity if you dont fill it up with water quickly etc.
as to the "wfc does not produce enough gas for a car to run". true! but the wfc is intersting enough to make other use of it.
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The reason I did that test was to see if 1 psi in a one liter cavity was in did one liter of HHO.
after I transfered the 15 PSI into the bottle, I ran the cell at same power 12 volts 15 AMPS and mesured the output by filling the one liter botle. and still getting one litler per minute.
My point with this is that Stan's WFC results are wrong. his cell did dor produce 7LPM. His cell only produced about 0.5 LPM.
kinesisfilms is right, to get the engine to run on a WFC, we will need to do alot more then just WFC.
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hmm.. does not make much sense?
so you had two minutes time, two liters of gas and 15psi in the system?
by the instructional video i'd say its definitely more than half a liter per minute.
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The only thing I can add is:
Do the test for your self.
I did it and that helped put things in a different prespective.
I now can move forward and really work on getting an ICE running on water.
I did my part in trying to help you guys see the truth, now you do what ever you want.
Electrojolt Out.
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hmm.. does not make much sense?
so you had two minutes time, two liters of gas and 15psi in the system?
by the instructional video i'd say its definitely more than half a liter per minute.
No my test cell, with a one liter cavity at 1 ATM, ran for one minute at 12 volts 15 AMPS.
In one minute it registered 15PSI.
So my cell was producing more gas at 180 watts, than Stan's at 500.
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So my cell was producing more gas at 180 watts, than Stan's at 500.
Stan's cell didn't use 500watts, it was the comparison with standart electrolysis, where the 9 cells used 500watt.
I've read the part of the test report yesterday, because i understood it the same way you did first.