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Projects by members => Projects by members => Lapperl => Topic started by: lapperl on May 16, 2008, 03:50:35 am
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Well, I received my stainless tubes from Speedy Metals yesterday (thanks for the tip Hydrocars) and it's time to start my cell construction. I plan on building a six tube cell using the standard 4" clear acrylic tubing with PVC end caps and fittings and also a modified replication of the cell Karebill invented and Spike is currently working on.
My question is, does anyone have any good ideas for mounting the tubes in the 4" clear acrylic cell. I have seen many pictures and I still can't seam to get a clear picture in my head as to what is the best way.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
LapperL
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Lapperl
Looks like you got your weekend plan, which cell are you building first? ???
Spike
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Spike,
Well I was planning on building the Karebill style generator first , but unfortunately my domestic duties did not allow for any time this weekend.
On another note, it's back to the drawing board on the manifold design. As I feared the tolerances were too tight for machining and it failed miserably. I did like the way you used the PVC tee's to make your manifold and think I will be pursuing the same route.
I will keep you updated.
LapperL
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Here is my revised version of Karebills generator. I used Spikes idea of making a manifold out of PVC fittings, but instead of all TEE'S I will be using crosses. The system is designed for the water to flow into the 1/2" tubing which is sealed at the end with holes drilled into it to allow the water to flow into the 3/4" tubing. The 3/4" tubing is also plugged at the end with holes to allow water to flow into the 1" tubing.
Unfortunately with this new design, the tubing I already purchased will not be long enough. I would have to cut the 1" tubing down to about 6" long. So needless to say I have ordered some longer 3/4" and 1/2" tubing in order to keep the 1" tubing 12" in length. I should be receiving the new tubes on Thursday. So I should have plenty of time to complete this over the three day weekend.
LapperL
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Lapperl
Nice design, I was already thinking about the cross fitting on the small end for my next cell, But I wasn't going to put them on the big end. Looking forward to seeing it.
Spike
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Heres some progress. There is not much more I can do with the cell until my new tubes come in. Looks like I'll have to concentrate on other aspects of the build until then.
LapperL
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Lapperl, where did you buy the PVC crosses from? I was looking for something like that but couldn’t find any.
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Karebill,
I bought them at Lowe's. 3/4" schedule 40 PVC cross SKU#24088 $2.07 each.
LapperL
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I LIKE IT ;D
That is a much cleaner look.
What is your gap going to be.
It's coming along nice,
Spike
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Spike,
The gap will be .076" or 1.93 mm. The tube sizes are as follows:
1" o.d. x .049 wall
3/4" o.d. x .049 wall
1/2" o.d. x .035 wall
I figured I would go with a larger gap size due to the neutral tube and the statement that Karebill made about loosing gas production when his pump was not running.
My other cell (standard Stan Meyer set up in 4" o.d. tube) will have a smaller gap of .060" or 1.5 mm
LapperL
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The UPS site says that I won't get my new tubes until Friday!!! >:(
Guess I'll have to be patient, even though gas just went up to $4.08 a gallon here in Detroit :o Man these prices are killing me!!!!
LapperL
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Looks nice Lapperl
I got my best results, Wiring it a little different,
Spike
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Yeh, that was a bad on my point. I had the probes reversed in the photo. The inner tubes are wired to the positive and the outer tubes are negative.
LapperL
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Lapperl
I got better volume and numbers, wiring them 3 tubes in series, not parallel. But yours may be different.
Spike ;D
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It's not easy running a stop watch and trying to hold the bottle at the same time.
Straight tap water. ;D
5 VDC .8 amps pulsed to the rotor (Dave Lawton PWM)
18 VDC at the WFC
? Amperage at the WFC (I currently don't have a way to check the amperage across the WFC, if anyone has any cheap suggestions then I'm all ears)
500 ml water bottle in 5 gallon bucket 55 to 60 seconds to completely empty the bottle down to the cap ring.
8 VDC 1.5 amps pulsed to the rotor
21 VDC at the WFC
? Amps at the WFC
500 ml water bottle 30 to 35 seconds
The cell only gets slightly warm when it's ran at 5 volts. When at 8 volts it runs hotter. I will have to monitor the cell temperature tomorrow during some extended time runs.
Looking forward to peoples input.
LapperL
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;D HAVING FUN YET !! ;D
When I ran them parallel, They got hot. When I ran mine in series of three, it didn't
Spike
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Spike,
I'm having a blast! I love this stuff ;D
I did wire the cell in a series of three and ran some tests. The cell definetley did not heat up. I did notice that the voltage at the cell increased. When pulsing 5 vlts to the rotor I was getting 22 volts at the cell. Unfortunetly none of the local autoparts stores have any amp gauges in stock so I still don't know how many amps I'm putting into it. Looks like I will have to order it off of the internet. I hate waiting of shipping!!!.
When I increase the voltage at the rotor to 8 volts, the cell voltage went up to 36 volts. At 10 volts to the rotor the cell voltage rose to 42 volts. Regrettably my gas production was not even half of what is was when it was wired parallel.
So, I changed the wiring back and proceeded to run some test to see how hot the cell would get. I ran it for over a half an hour (until my water pump drained my little 12 volt battery) and was consistently evacuating the water out of an inverted Dasani 500ml water bottle in 43 seconds. In the beginning it took 46 seconds but once the cell warmed up (approx. 10 to 15 min) it dropped to 43 seconds. The water and cell got hot but I could still touch it. I need a temp probe also.
I stopped my stop watch once the first bubble escaped the unaltered water bottle. I need to check and see how much volume the water bottle hold when it is completely full to the top. I'm assuming that it is slightly more than 500 ml. If anyone knows off hand I would appreciate the info.
I'll perform some more tests tonight. Hopefully I can find an amp gauge by then. Temperature probe also.
Until next time,
LapperL
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Now Your Hooked, ;D
Spike
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Spike,
Would you explain the difference between running the cells in parralel and/or in series? I'm new to electronics. Thanks.
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Fiditti,
Here is how Spike got the point across to me.
Think of a plate cell, How they only run with a positive plate in the middle, and two negative plates on the end. All the plates in between are neutral plates, That produce gas by sharing electrical fields with the ones next to them. Neutral plates generate a positive and negative field, Look up a smack booster pdf, He has a good illustration were he explains voltage drops.
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf
I think it should clear things up. It did for me.
LapperL
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Thanks LapperL
I appreciate it.
BTW anything new on your project,
Or is summer time or work keeping you busy.
Spike
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Work has been kicking my ASS!!!! Summer time is a real busy time for us, so I have not had too much time to experiment. I have been playing with the torch and trying to get the cell to circulate without a pump. Nothing to speak of really.
One thing that I can comment on in regards to the circulation pump, is that they do not hold up in the long run. They are not made for hot water and most of them are designed for intermittent use. If we find that they are still necessary, then unfortunately, an actual hot water circulation pump (1 to 4 gpm) run anywhere from $200.00 to $400.00. OUCH!!!!
I really like the looks of your new design. Any ideas on how to shrink it in order to use on your vehicle?
LapperL
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LapperL
I've been working on ideas, On making it smaller. ???
I think I got it. ;) But it will have to wait.
My next few weeks are going to be pretty busy.
Spike