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Stanley Meyer => General Stan Meyer topics => Topic started by: HMS-776 on January 21, 2012, 19:58:38 pm
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I've been trying to figure out the steam resonator used in the buggy.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/Steamres1.png)
From the pic of the card it looks like resonance was used. (Lock in LED, Man Auto scanning switch etc)
However, the Tech Brief never mentions resonance with the steam resonator?
Anyone have a pic of the steam resonator card???
Does anyone here think resonance was or was not used? Why?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres2.png)
The above picture contains the following:
-Transformer with 3 coils (6 wire ends)
-2 NPN transistors
-2 PNP transistors
-4 High watt resistors
-Bridge rectifier?
-Fuse
So if resonance was used the 3 coils are most likely 1 Primary coil, 1 secondary coil, and 1 pulse pickup coil
If resonance is not used perhaps there are 2 secondary coils. (perhaps to use what Meyer called 'Switchover' since there are 2 steam resonators in the buggy, 1 in the water tank, and 1 in the resonant cavity)
The primary coil appears to be connected to a bridge rectifier also...?
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That bottom picture with the bridge rectifier is clearly not part of the dune buggy system. All that can be determined is that it was for a system being built around the same time, as it uses the same aluminum heat sink as the VIC coils.
The steam resonator has a reference to "resonance" right in it's name! Resonance is used for amp restriction and particle oscillation between the plates.
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In the buggy there were 2 steam resonators. 1 in the water tank and 1 in the resonant cavity.
2 of the wires from the coil connect to a set of 2 high watt resistors. Each resistor connects to a NPN and PNP transistor. This seems to suggest that the coil operates on AC.
In an NPN transistor current flows one way while in a PNP transistor current will flow the opposite direction.
NPN transistors are typically places between the load and ground, while PNP transistors are placed between the source and the load.
From the drawings it appears that the plates in the steam resonator are not the load, the high watt resistors are. From the drawing below the plates appear to simply be a conductor?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres3.png)
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Donaldwfc, thanks for the input.
I think this was the steam resonator used for the buggy, but I'm not sure....Don had it in his pics....Here it is...
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres4.png)
(Back Left side)
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Yes, I considered this before. It's in the same picture as the VIC system. Ask the question why would there be a AC bridge rectifier in a 12 VDC system? There wouldn't be. So it's something else... Not sure what system it is for.
I am not sure what is going on in that steam resonator diagram with the transistors... it does not indicate the switching signal for the BJTs below the plates. Maybe they are in sync with the other ones?
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Yeah, the bridge rectifier is confusing me the most with that circuit....I'm wondering if it's not a bridge rectifier, but it definately looks like one.
TonyW pointed out before that the circuit is similiar to a H-Bridge circuit used to control the direction of an electric motor.
I think there are many different ways of making the steam resonator work....I'm just wanting to know how this one worked.....
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The diagram you posted has 2 VIC coils to run one SR, yet in the VIC box with 11 units, it only has one 3-23 VIC for the SR. With a different switch over circuit you should be able to use one VIC. Or use two VIC coils and run two SRs at the same time as shown in the TB.
What are you thinking of building?
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Donaldwfc, thanks for contributing.
I think your right on about the steam resonator VIC.
As far as building...Not sure yet but hopefully I'll start building this summer....
I gave up a few years back after I spent over 1,000$ on useless crap....I realized at that time that I was not educated enough to replicate Meyer, now I'm feeling ready!
BTW, still have no idea why there is a bridge rectifier in the circuit?
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Yea, the thing about that item with the bridge is that it's not from the early stuff. He shows a multi tapped transformer in some of the patents as an input before the opto pulsing part of the circuit. It's not from those early patented systems. It used the same aluminum heat sink as the other VIC cards so it was made around the same time. Also it is heavy gage wire, and we see that by this time he was using 29 gage wire and mentioning 36 gauge wire in the newer patents. So why the high current transformer? Anyway I can't figure out what it's for... Maybe new details will come up in the future.
For the SR, we know his first one on the 1992 dune buggy was two flat plates, the later one was two tubes side by side with slots milled into them all along the length. Both appeared to have the same single VIC as the power source. The crossover circuit for them must be in the big VIC box somewhere.
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what is the point to this resonator? what use is it on the car really?
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The steam resonator prevented the water from freezing. Not sure if the pictures I posted were the one used in th buggy?
Go to youtube and watch this video of someone who has replicated it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmdSkYEp6M
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Thank you Hms. We wouldn't want our water to freeze.
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lol
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HMS-776,
That picture you posted with all the coil packs and white container is the resonace cavity, which has the 11 resonance cells in it.It's not the steam resonator.
Don
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Yeah I know, but one of the cells inside it was a steam reasonator, and the VIC used for it I thought was the card on the back left of that picture?
Gotta keep the cell water from freezing also.
BTW Don, the pics you gave us of the inside of the res cavity, I think the steam resonator tube is the shiny one, it's the only one that's been cleaned by the steam! Unless that tube was never connected to anything I think it was the steam resonator.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/rescavity3.png)
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I think he meant the upper two cards in the pic (left of the WFC).
I also think that they probably really are part of the Steam resonator. But what happened to it? It really looks like it has been slaughtered (all the cable connections cut). So from the pic posted in the beginning of this thread there's not much informations anymore available of how this thing was interconnected.
Far more information one can get from the pic of the Home Heating Unit.
Here's the Steam-Resonator Driving Circuit of it:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4135/steamresonatordrivingbo.jpg)
I just shortly drew the interesting connections (as the Transistor's pre-driving circuit isn't really interesting).
So it looks like that:
The computer tells with 4 bits the amplitude of the primary voltage. This is done with the help of a LM317 and an additional Transistor.
Additionally the computer tells the Impulses and which side to drive.
The actual driving circuit is made of 2 PNP transistors (for driving the primaries), and 2 NPN transistors which make a connection to ground (with a diode in series).
So from this one can get the information, that neither of the two available schematic drawings of the Steam-Resonator is really what he used here. IMHO the lower transistors in the never schematic are only needed, if you wanna drive two different Steam resonators at the same time. But in the Home Heating Unit he powered all as one big unit (all tubes in parallel).
What's really interesting is the voltage rating of the transistors. They are only made to withstand 100 Volts. Also the Diodes used are only rated for 100 Volts.
Well for the primary driving circuit this is surely no problem. But the part which connects the Tubes to ground is problematic. Sure, if the transistor is on, all the voltage will drop over the resistor, and the transistor will be fine. But here's the problem: The other Transistor (on the other electrode) is not turned on during this time. This means it would have the full cell voltages on the transistor.
So my conclusion is: Either the Resonator only worked with very low voltages (< 100V) or the Electrode(s) were coated with some insulator.
Or any other ideas, which could yield an explanation for this?
Edit:
Another IMHO interesting detail: The Transistors are not mounted on a heat sink. This actually indicates, that besides the fact that this thing drives this huge Steam-Resonator, not much energy is needed.
@ HMS-776:
No the clean Tube you see in the WFC wasn't connected. The Steam resonator wasn't in there. It was in the water tank.
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I agree, I think the steam resonator did not need high voltages. I think the switching frequency is more important. I do think the high voltage could be used but I don't think it was necessary.
The steam res coil pic posted on the first page has sk3180 transistors which are only 80V transistors.
From the measurements and calculations I've done on that coil it's a got a 1:6 turns ratio. 12V input 72V out.
BTW your right about the home heating unit....Much more information there, thanks for pointing that out.
Edit: I bet the people who bought all of Stan's stuff will be developing the steam resonator units. Hopefully they will get it to market within the next few years. I'm sick of paying 150$ gas bills every month to heat my house! The only problem I see is them getting a patent on it.
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The only problem I see is them getting a patent on it.
Yeah, but that's the good side of it. Stan already patented and described everything. So I don't think anyone can still get any valid patent on it anymore.
BTW: I forgot to answer the question in your first post about whether we think there's a resonance.
I personally think that in this specific usage, the "WFC" does not act like a capacity, as there's only one electrode in usage at any time. Therefore the resonant frequency of the circuit is not dependent on the water properties. And therefore you can work with a fixed one time detected resonance frequency.
But that's just my current guess...
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Kali_ma_Amar,
I think your 100% correct on that. The cell is not a capacitor.
Perhaps if any kind of resonance was used it was the resonace of the coil, used for current limiting?
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I think he actually wanted to pulse the electrodes. You could either directly pulse them, which would waste a lot of energy, or you could use a resonant circuit where the unused pulse energy gets recycled.
And as in this Steam-Resonator application the "WFC" does not contribute any relevant feature in the circuit (as L,C or R) it is neglectable in relation to the resonant frequency of the circuit. Therefore the resonant frequency in this application is IMHO only dependent on the coil properties.
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I built a circuit back last year that mimics the Steam Resonator circuit. Here's what the signal looked like at the plates.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_pulse.jpg)
I saw in earlier posts where you guys where talking about the FWB rectifier and was thinking that he was using AC as the input. It looks like he was using the FWB with the pulsed DC, he just used this instead of using basic diodes to send the signal to the primary coil. From what I have researched is that the switching of the signals polarity applied to the plates act just like AC. You can test this by connecting 120v AC to you cell and it will cause the water to heat up very fast. Stan's used pulsed DC to accomplish the same feat. It takes less than 1A to heat water up from room temp. to over 220*F. I've tested and done this, in less than 3 mins the was temp. went from room temp. to 220*F.
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Thanks for the update Tony - could this waveform be generated from a simple square wave generator or something? I believe Meyer increased the voltage before sending it to the resonator plates?
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Yea the simple circuit that used to make the signal above is made by using two input square waves, a gate pulse and the resonant pulse. Stan made the polarity switching take place on the secondary side of the transformer. In my circuit I'm making the polarity switch on the primary side of the transformer, it should give the same results.
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Sure you can heat water just by putting AC on it (this is actually how most cheap air humidifiers work). But the efficiency is just 100%. In this case the water is just used purely as a resistance, and the AC is responsible so that no electrolysis can take place.
But the Steam Resonator IMHO certainly didn't work on that principle, for the energy input was certainly way too small for this huge array to have any considerable heating effect with a low efficiency as 100% ;-)
IMHO, and as Stan described in the technical briefs, the pulses are always one sided, then discharged again, and then pulses are on the other side. I think, and it's also described like that in the briefs, that you could either pulse one side +, then the other side -, or one side +, then the other side +, or - -> -.
As this coil in the first pic only has 3 windings, my guess would be that he used a switch over circuit for the Steam-Resonator in the buggy.
The discharging is IMHO especially very important, when you have different polarities, for otherwise you would get electrolysis (Dr. Stiffler Circuit). If your would use the same polarity for the elctrodes and if the water is more or less isolated, the water would just one time get the charge of the corresponding polarity and couldn't discharge anymore. So also in this case a controlled discharging does make sense (which is IMHO attained with the help of the 2 NPN Transistors).
But that just my current guess. And IMHO as long as noone was able to really replicate the Steam Resonator (and with replication I mean with an OU factor) every idea is as good as the other. So I do definitely not claim that this guess is in any way correct!
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You will have to figure out the VIC so you are applying amp restricted voltage across the water before you can get the SR working. For that reason it is a post wfc spin off technology, and not really worth it to focus on first...
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Donaldwfc, I think your right. In one of Meyer's news releases he states that the steam resonator is a spinoff of the VIC technology.
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Nothing Stan invented will work without the basics of amp restriction to allow voltage to take over.I've said it before also,you can't get anything else to work without first making gas with voltage only.Everything else is a waste of time.It can't be done if you don't have the basics of Stan method working first.I don't know why people think that they can make any of his later systems work without the basics.
Don
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" Nothing Stan invented will work without the basics of amp restriction to allow voltage to take over.I've said it before also,you can't get anything else to work without first making gas with voltage only.Everything else is a waste of time.It can't be done if you don't have the basics of Stan method working first.I don't know why people think that they can make any of his later systems work without the basics."
that would be for 100% water as fuel system.
On " booster" cell / gasoline hybrid installations, as I have seen by using low voltage / low current electrolyte based electrolysis (no heat in cell and greater reduction/elimination of gunk buldup in cell) can help reduce fuel consumption, but must protect engine first with boundary lubrication!
What is not yet clear is....when the meyer setup is accomplished what are the effects of that alternative fuel system on engine components....?
anyway my question is - What is the biggest barrier to solving the meyer cell - is it entirely in the VIC coil and its construction.?
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Exactly Don,
C'mon everyone, back to the 8XA and RVIC!
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So, anyone know what those high watt resistor values are, the 4 from the pic I posted earlier
That had the coil, a bridge rectifier, and 4 transistors.
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I've already gotten the 8XA setup to work. I just haven't gotten the VIC circuit to react the same way yet. Back in early January 2011, I got the cell to charge to over 800 volts with 12 volts input @ less than 20mA. It looks like what has to take place is the voltage to the transformer has to be slowly increased from low voltage to its max voltage. This allows a depletion layer to form on the plates, much like a diode/transistor. If you through 12v straight to the transformer it wont allow a depletion layer to form and it will cause a dead short condition. When this depletion layer forms, it blocks current and allows the voltage to build.
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I've been thinking along the same lines, wondering if the variable voltage circuit is needed for that purpose.
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Yea you should be able to make a simple variable voltage control by using a couple of resistors, a Pot, and a transistor and put it in series with the primary coil.
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thanks Tony, that sounds like a good idea
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you can build a voltage control similar to this one.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/simple_voltage_control.png)
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I've already gotten the 8XA setup to work. I just haven't gotten the VIC circuit to react the same way yet. Back in early January 2011, I got the cell to charge to over 800 volts with 12 volts input @ less than 20mA. It looks like what has to take place is the voltage to the transformer has to be slowly increased from low voltage to its max voltage. This allows a depletion layer to form on the plates, much like a diode/transistor. If you through 12v straight to the transformer it wont allow a depletion layer to form and it will cause a dead short condition. When this depletion layer forms, it blocks current and allows the voltage to build.
Hi,
With the depletion layer and the musings that a cell can be like a transistor, is it possible that the type/grade of S/S used makes a substantial effect on the sought depletion layer.?
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Hi,
With the depletion layer and the musings that a cell can be like a transistor, is it possible that the type/grade of S/S used makes a substantial effect on the sought depletion layer.?
Yea thats what its looking like! This might be the key to the operation of this system :)
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wfchobby, I also posted on this a while back.
The transistor model is deifinately the most likely model of the WFC. It was first introduced by Stephen Meyer on a radio interview.
Please read: http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2291.msg21951.html#msg21951 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2291.msg21951.html#msg21951)
(BTW, thanks TonyW for posting the radio interviews on your site)
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no problem HMS-776
Yea when I saw your post the other day it made me think back to what Stephen Meyer said in the interview. I remember back last year after listening to all the interviews, I mentioned this to my friends Patrik & Spencer. I think I might have mentioned it on here also, can't really remember, but this fits in the Meyer system pretty good!
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Agreed,
A few years back I spent some time on energeticforum.
At the time I thought it was as Stan had explained (physical forces pulling the molecule apart).
I continued to have a rather lengthy argument with a more knowledgeable person who kept on insiting that there has to be a charge exchange medium of some sort. Now I understand what she meant, although neither of us knew about the transistor model at the time.
We know scientifically that high voltage increases the auto-ionization (amount of ions) of the water!
One thing I still wonder is if the explanation Stan gave was possible....If the molecule could be pulled apart without producing ions???
Perhaps both situations are occuring in the cell, but it seems more likely that all the HV is doing in increasing the autoionization.
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Yea see I've had this happen in my 8XA setup. The only difference between my setup and Stan's setup is he had the variable gap with low inductance coils and mine has a fixed gap with high induction coils so to balance the difference. Now my biggest feat is to get the same reaction to take place with the VIC circuit & 5-VIC transformer!
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That is awesome,
One thing I have wanted to mention for a while:
In the WFC ions are created. The ions which are created collect near the oppositely charged plates, producing a voltage within the cell which will rise to a higher voltage than the circuit can produce. Under the right conditions this voltage will go into a runaway effect, rising to infinity (The ions will increase the voltage which will in turn produce more ions). This is one of the reasons for gating the circuit, to limit the max voltage inside the cell.
Ref: Delearship sales manual pF7
This further explains the transistor theory. The HV is creating ions. I know Tony you mentioned before that you were getting much higher voltages near your cell than throughout the rest of the 8XA circuit, this is why.
In order for the ions to become stable atoms they must recieve or give an electron. The Cell forms an NPN transistor with the SS being the N type material. If you look at the atoms which are mixed with the iron to make SS you can see those atoms give the ss material it's symmetry with N type semiconductor material.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/dope.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/dope.html)
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If you look at the cell as a NP device, such as a diode in reverse bias, the following will take place.
When contact is made, electrons can lower their energy by flowing from the semiconductor conduction band into the metal. The resulting build-up of charge on the metal-semiconductor interface causes a deformation of the band structure. This continues until the chemical potential in the semiconductor reaches equilibrium with the Fermi energy of the metal. The deformed band structure forms a potential barrier which electrons must overcome in order to flow from the semiconductor into the metal. In the reverse bias situation, the potential barrier is much greater and the depletion region larger. As a result, very little current flows and voltage will build up until dielectric breakdown occurs!
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That's a great explanation,
Do you think dielectric breakdown is what is splitting the water though?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I was under the impression that dielectric breakdown results in arcing?
Also, the voltage in the cell will rise toward infinity but it is still limited by the components in the circuit, the coils will see that voltage and if the voltage gets to high the coils will breakdown.
I think the dielectric breakdown of water requires a voltage in the MV range. Perhaps there is something I am not understanding though....
(Ref:http://www.sandia.gov/pulsedpower/prog_cap/pub_papers/water_breakdown_tests_PRSTAB_2009.pdf (http://www.sandia.gov/pulsedpower/prog_cap/pub_papers/water_breakdown_tests_PRSTAB_2009.pdf))
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You will still have the pulling force, the depletion layer will act as a barrier between the Water and Plate surface. So you will have a B+ field and a B- field on the surface of the plates. With out this depletion layer forming, you will have a dead short condition and current will flow and voltage will drop. The gate pulse acts as a voltage limiter so that you don't have arcing when breakdown occurs.
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I guess I need to go do more studying. Thanks for the explanation!
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This is a drawing showing the basics of the depletion layers role in all of this.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/B+_B-_Depletion_Layer.png)
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ok this is my theory on the purpose of the Gate pulse. When you have the depletion layer form on both electrodes, it will get larger and larger as the voltage increases. At some point the voltage will make the depletion layer large enough that the two will meet and cause a bridge between the two electrodes. This will cause a dead short condition and current will flow and voltage will drop and you will have a loss of resonance. So this is where the gate comes into play, it limits the depletion layer from getting too big and causing the bridge between the two electrodes.
The B+ & B- depletion layers cause the stripping of the electrons and when the gates switch off, the atoms will link back up as diatomic hydrogen.
The antibonding (top) molecular orbitals of the H2 molecule. (out of phase orbit)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/H2OrbitalsAnimation.gif)
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I've already gotten the 8XA setup to work. I just haven't gotten the VIC circuit to react the same way yet. Back in early January 2011, I got the cell to charge to over 800 volts with 12 volts input @ less than 20mA. It looks like what has to take place is the voltage to the transformer has to be slowly increased from low voltage to its max voltage. This allows a depletion layer to form on the plates, much like a diode/transistor. If you through 12v straight to the transformer it wont allow a depletion layer to form and it will cause a dead short condition. When this depletion layer forms, it blocks current and allows the voltage to build.
there is a post somewhere where a guy says he gets much more gas output when the tubes were first electropolished. The water didnt develop any brown gunk that way... so if the high voltage electropolishing was used to deplete the iron from the surface of the plates so that all that was left was the chromium present in the stainless 316L this would prevent leechoing of the iron into the water...but it also helps with the amp restriction as a barrier like in a transistor at the junction... if you over voltage the electro polishing then you deplete the chromium in the stainless and get to the next layer of iron and in this way you will have no electrodes left... theres a voltage / current limit when electropolishing the waveguides.... we want the end result to be a 98% pure chromium surface...
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remember the zero point energy comes from the INSTANT OFF condition of the signal, components with millisecond rise and fall times are worthless, we need nanosecond response times...very sharp on and off spikes
another point to remember: a sine wave allows the water molecule to flip slowly as it changes phase 180 degrees, but a sharp square wave will SNAP the molecules 180 degrees, thats where the most efficient heating will be found
the resonance is for the inductive / capacitive characteristics of the chokes, each choke has its resonant frequency that restricts amps to a minimum amount of current but allows voltage to pass
the steam resonator is NOT for producing hydrogen... we DO NOT want to separate the water molecule at this point... and also remember that the resonant chamber was placed inside the water tank, so if you heat the water tank the resonant cavity will also be heated... the need for a steam resonator in the resonant cavity is eliminated.
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another point to remember: a sine wave allows the water molecule to flip slowly as it changes phase 180 degrees, but a sharp square wave will SNAP the molecules 180 degrees, thats where the most efficient heating will be found
Nice theory, Ali, but questionable. Water doesnt react very quick on power on and off.
Take two electrodes and a bucket of water. Turn on the power. It takes at least 3 seconds before you see any reaction. Even when the water already has a charge, it will react slow.
At least, those are my observations....for what it is worth... ;)
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I went a little off topic here but Im referring to the hydrogen production, not the steam resonator.
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Back to the steam resonator:
I was studying the driving circuit for the home heating unit and I realized it also has a bridge rectifier like the one used for the dune buggy.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/123232.png)
Above you'll see the bridge rectifier circled in red, made of individual diodes.
I'm still not sure what purpose it serves through...The input to the rectifier is 24VAC...
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The picture I posted last is of the driving circuit, the most important circuit to understand in order to figure out the steam resonator.
Kali_ma_Amar explained this circuit well on page 4 of this topic but there are still a few things I would like to point out, and figure out...
First, the circuit has a bridge rectifier just like the steam resonantor used in the dune buggy. It appears that the rectified output was put through a 12V regulator and a transistor which I think was used to pulse the primary coil in the home heating unit.
Each steam resonator (the home heating unit and the dune buggy) has 2 NPN and 2 PNP transistors.
The steam resonator is not a capacitor, and inductor, or a resistor. I think current is limited by the coil reactance and the high watt resistors only.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres3.png)
I would like to point out once again using the circuit above that the steam resonator tubes are nothing more than conductive surfaces placed in the water. A current and voltage wave will travel through them, the polarity of the wave depending on the direction of current flow through the conductor. Although there is no voltage build up and a very small voltage drop across the tubes there is still a voltage wave which passes through the tubes. Pulsing this wave back and forth at high speed and switching the direction of the traveling wave is what ultimately causes the water to heat up. I learned when studying transmission lines that voltage waves propogate at the speed of light(1).
(1) Ref http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/3.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/3.html)
Now as far as questions I have is about the coil itself....The dune buggy steam resonator coil has 3 coils (6 wire ends) while the home heating unit looked to have 7 wires coming out of it...Maybe 3 coils, 1 center tap?
So, what I'm wanting to know now is how the coil was designed. I tend to think each had 1 primary coil and 2 secondary coils bifilar wound, but that is a theory I have yet to prove out....
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This is one of Stan's transformers, it might have been used for the steam resonator also. You can see written on it the number of turns, 18 T Primary, 360 T, 20:1
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/Steam_TX.jpg)
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Above you'll see the bridge rectifier circled in red, made of individual diodes.
I'm still not sure what purpose it serves through...The input to the rectifier is 24VAC...
HI
This bridge is the part of the power source for driving circuit of steam resonator for home heating. In the dune buggy power source is 12 V from accumulator. ( so bridge is for other purpose )
andy
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Above you'll see the bridge rectifier circled in red, made of individual diodes.
I'm still not sure what purpose it serves through...The input to the rectifier is 24VAC...
HI
This bridge is the part of the power source for driving circuit of steam resonator for home heating. In the dune buggy power source is 12 V from accumulator. ( so bridge is for other purpose )
andy
Looks like its part of the powersupply.
Steve
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TonyW,
I have seen that picture before and wondered the same thing.
Looks alot like the one used on the buggy.
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HI to All
Maybe someone here have more pictures about steam resonator for home heating unit like vic transformer , or other circuits boards? Maybe someone have picture of the other side circuit board posted by HMS-776? For figuring it out. Thank for sharing.
andy
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From the measurements I have taken I have determined the core used on the buggy steam resonator is an E65 Ferrite core, not sure which type of ferrite yet. The primary wire is 18AWG, while the secondary coils are 22AWG.
The high watt resistors suggest that there is not a whole lot of power used in this circuit, maybe 5 or 10W. I'm not sure of the watt rating of those resistors but if they are 5W then the max current at 80V would be about 62mA. If they are 10W resistors then we are looking at 125mA.
Looking at the PNP and NPN transistor configuration I can't help but wonder why Meyer didn't just use a push pull driver on the primary coil to achieve the polarity switching?
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Above you'll see the bridge rectifier circled in red, made of individual diodes.
I'm still not sure what purpose it serves through...The input to the rectifier is 24VAC...
HI
This bridge is the part of the power source for driving circuit of steam resonator for home heating. In the dune buggy power source is 12 V from accumulator. ( so bridge is for other purpose )
andy
The home heating unit assumes a power supply, a common 120 vac to 24 vac wall plug, after rectifying we get 12 volts pulsing DC for the circuit board
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From the measurements I have taken I have determined the core used on the buggy steam resonator is an E65 Ferrite core, not sure which type of ferrite yet. The primary wire is 18AWG, while the secondary coils are 22AWG.
The high watt resistors suggest that there is not a whole lot of power used in this circuit, maybe 5 or 10W. I'm not sure of the watt rating of those resistors but if they are 5W then the max current at 80V would be about 62mA. If they are 10W resistors then we are looking at 125mA.
Looking at the PNP and NPN transistor configuration I can't help but wonder why Meyer didn't just use a push pull driver on the primary coil to achieve the polarity switching?
were those push pulls available in the early 80's?
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The push-pull circuits I'm referring to are made from NPN and PNP transistors and are simple circuits.
They have been around since before then. They are very similiar to Meyer's crossover circuit except they are placed on the primary side of the transformer.
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I too am fascinated by Meyer's ability to superheat water using voltage and not current.
We CAN DO THIS!
Keep up the good work all.
I am working on extracting the circuit from the pics of the home steam heater unit.
Wish me luck.
What threw me for a loop is the bridge rectifier on the 'steam resonator' transformer heatsink.
It sure does look like a power supply setup, but why were there complementary transistors there - PNP and NPN?
We know the following from that picture:
The Collectors of the two PNP transistors are tied together, and go to a black wire that has been cut.
The emitters of one of the NPN and PNP transistors (the pair to the left) go through a 220 ohm resistor and then tie together to the coil.
The emitters of the transistor pair to the right do the same.
The base connections on all transistors have been cut.
It is almost like an h-bridge of some type, but this is not certain.
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waterfreak, How were you able to find out they were 220 Ohm resistors?
Also,
The H bridge is the same conclusion TonyW and I have accepted after he mentioned it a while back.
It is also why I am confused that stan didn't just use use a push pull circuit at the primary coil?
Also, each Steam Resonator coil has at least 3 seperate coils. It looks like 1 primary and 2 secondary coils.
The plates of the steam resonator do not form a capacitor, they are merely plates in the water in which the current flows through along with the voltage wave. I already have the driving circuit down and wokring, I am currently trying to find a coil which I think could perform the operation of the steam resonator. I think the coil is about the same as the VIC only without the negative choke.
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HMS-776....I think I know know why Stan made the flip-flop circuit on the secondary side instead of the Primary side. If he would have make the flip-flop on the Primary side, it would mess up the resonance, by placing it on the Secondary side it allows resonance to continue during the process. what do you think about this?
Also, the FWB rectifier is connected to the output of the Steam Resonator transformer.
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HMS,
If you have figured out the driver circuit, please enlighten the rest of us.
The resistors match exactly with the 220 ohm resistors on Stan's other vic circuits and photos. He seems to like using 220 ohm resistors with his coils for some reason.
I am not sure of the AWG wire on the coil, but it appears the windings are all the same wire size.
Also, the coil seems to be wrapped in such a way as to leave the plastic tape between each wire as it was wound - not
just between the windings. I believe some others in the forum have mentioned this could be a secret to the VIC?
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Tony & waterfreak
Thanks for the input, the more sides we look at this the better we will all understand it....
I'm still contemplating if resonance was used in the steam resonator circuit? Looking at the home heating unit each switching transistor had a diode which would prevent any series resonance. Also, the steam resonator tubes do not act as a capacitor. If there is resonance it would have to be one of the coils resonating.
Note that in the buggy steam res VIC there were several high watt resistors. I think they were used to limit current but also protect the transistors in case the switching overlapped. The home heating unit used a huge core. Look at how thick the laminations were built up to! This was made for some serious inductance. Imo the inductive reactance of the coil performs current limiting. From my studies I think the circuit is similiar to the VIC, only without a negative choke.
Meyer states in a News Release that the steam resonator is an offshoot of the VIC....In all the diagrams and explanations in the TB resonance is not mentioned. One might think that the term 'resonator' implies resonance but that is a different kind of resonance. When referring to resonant cavities or waveguides the resonance is not the same thing as resonance within a circuit.
Waterfreak...
I should have actually called it the switching circuit, not the driving circuit. I designed a switching circuit on multisim which is very basic. It consists of a 555, a counter, and an RS flip flop to turn on and off the polarity switching transistors. Anyone who knows electronics can easily design something similiar.
And the plastic tape between the windings, that's no secret. It's just insulation for the coils. It's common in most transformers. Likely kapton tape or something similiar.
UPDATE: Just got a PM from Don after asking him about the VIC card for the steam resonator. Don said the card was identical to the other VIC cards. So resonance was used in the Steam Resonator. This brings up more questions???
With the microcontroller used in the home heating unit it may also have used resonance....
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HMS, thanx for the nfo.
I believe you are correct in your assumptions.
As far as the vic board being identical to the other resonant cavity control boards, they may have looked identical, but I wonder if all parts of the board were actually used?
Many of Stan's boards have wire bridges, etc., and I wonder if he only used part of the board in the steam resonator.
I do not think he used resonance in the steam setup, but I could be wrong.
Here's a hand-drawn diagram of the steam resonator circuit someone made on another forum - I found it here:
http://stansdream.com.ru/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6e0402099017ae0ee0717d8aa83348b0&topic=4.0
Does it look like a polarity switching circuit to you?
As far as the picture from the home heating unit HMS, it could be a simple power supply transformer, supplying power for the unit.
I don't know - the wires and the transformer itself appear to be professionally made standard step-down xfmr to me.
Your guess is as good as mine.
But, if you look at the control board, you will see Stan used two transistors in pairs - NTE247(NPN) and NTE248(PNP), which are silicon complementary transistors.
He also used NPN and PNP pairs in the steam resonator vic we are discussing.
There is a common thread here, if we expand on it and follow it more closely, I believe.
I really want to get this working - It's cold here!
Plus, how many people could use a water heater that does not use tons of amps?
Something else I found interesting is the home heating unit board itself - it has the filename "WFCDRIVR.CKT" silkscreened on it.
If someone had access to this file, it would reveal a lot. I'm sure it was on one of the computers that was with the estate.
Also, on the control board, you will see the silkscreen says "24VAC".
The transformer appears to have 7 wires (that we can see).
HMS, your assumption of the coil having a secondary with bifilar chokes seems to be supported by the patent diagram.
Notice also the chokes (only) have a common core. In other parts of the patent, Stan states the coil is "together bifilar wrapped in equal length".
There is a mention of "resonant charging chokes".
Simple in concept, extremely complex in reality.
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Good points,
BTW I think you are right about the coil...There is an aftermarket power supply (note pic below on the right side) attached to the home heating unit which runs off of +24V.
I have also noticed Meyer stated the primary and secondary coils are bifilar wrapped equal in length, but he also states in the same TB section that the voltage is directly related to the turns ratio "Voltage intensity is directly related to the number of turns of each coil..." (TB p11-3).
Attached is a multisim replication of the crossover circuit. As you can see it's similiar to an H bridge circuit. R5 represents the steam resonator....Please note that the values of the resistances and transistors are not correct. I have been changing values to see the different effects and take measurements. The waveform shows the polarity switching. When transistors Q1 and Q3 are switched on the polarity across R5 will be in one direction, when transistors Q2 and Q4 are switched on the polarity will reverse. As you can also see there is a brief period between polarity switching. This is also shown in the Tech Brief.
In the waveform a DC voltage was applied across the circuit. When a coil is used the coil can be pulsed faster than the switching and then the waveform will represent what is shown in the tech brief.
(Sorry to keep editing, I'm sick today and can't think straight)
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thinking of what is a potential useful application of the steam resonator is for - underslab and under floor heating using the steam resonator with a solar supply and having the concrete slab or otherunderfloor type reservoir of a water volume for heat distribution over the time the solar isnt being generated will help with a healthier indoor temp of the dwelling, got a cold workshop? give this idea a try.......this is an incentive to have a working steam resonator opensource :) what do you think
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Opensource, I'd say that's what we are doing in this thread.
The problem is, as waterfreak stated earlier.
SIMPLE IN CONCEPT, EXTREMELY COMPLEX IN REALITY!
If this technology were simple at all we would all be driving water powered cars.
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I have a few ideas of my own based on what info and pics we have seen. I built robots many years ago and to drive the motors I designed H bridges for forward and reverse and used PWM (pulse width modulation) to control the speed, but give full power. I’ll see if I can dig up the circuits I used. If I can get it working, think of this: Take a standard 30 gal electric water heater, build a “Steam Resonator” element to replace the 220 volt element. Hot water using a fraction of the power needs. The only thing I would worry about is leaching of chromium from the stainless. Would run some test before I hooked it into my house. It also would not be a major retrofit to replace my 5 ton propane furnace with a hot water heat system. As for now, I’m just trying to find time to work on the 5 coil VIC stuff.
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This is a circuit I built back last year that does the same as the Steam Resonator circuit.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/Flip-Flop-Circuit.png)
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/Flip-Flop-Circuit-2.png)
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" Take a standard 30 gal electric water heater, build a “Steam Resonator” element to replace the 220 volt element. Hot water using a fraction of the power needs. The only thing I would worry about is leaching of chromium from the stainless. Would run some test before I hooked it into my house."
40 plus years ago copper hot water cylinders were made with their own header tank on top of the cylinder - so it is a top up tank and expansion tank - the cylinder is low pressure - no valve venting requied - the only parts requiring servicing are the ballcock in the headertank and the element, inside the cylinder is a coil of copper = which mains pressure water was fed through to heat giving mains pressure hot water - very effective in isolating low/mains pressure and very low maintanence costs.....the same principle applied to the steam resonator using suitable materials effectively eliminates contamination concerns......also means solar collectors can be hooked into the same system.
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BE CAREFUL...the heater elements are thick wires surrounded by ceramic and enclosed in a copper tube...the voltages are very dangerous and the current is isolated from the water by the ceramic
This is why the tank is not required to be insulated from the earth
BUT if you use stans system you have to use plastic pipe to connect your home to the tank on in and out lines and you have to insulate the tank from people and from the earth ground.
although the voltages wont be very high, they could be and also the voltage in the water causes electrolysis in the house piping system and corrosion...so you might be better off designing an isolated heater system that then transfers heat from an exchange coil with heat transfer fins wrapping the stainless piping alongside the plastic piping so that the two liquids are totally isolated from each other both chemically and electrically
a heat exchanger is the way to go
take it from a HVAC engineer...
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Thanks for the info Tony.
It looks good in theory, but in reality that circuit does not work.
The Meyer waveform, I believe, should be channel A on, then both channels off, then channel B on, then both channels off, etc.
When breadboarded, your circuit only produces short spikes which occur at the same time.
Also, shouldn't there be a diode on the secondary of the output coil?
We have to start somewhere - I need to determine the relationship of the two complementary transistor driver circuit.
I think this may hold the key.
We can generate khz square waves quite easily with 555 timers.
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@Waterfreak - You must have something wrong, cuz I have built this circuit and it works fine. Here is the signal at the input of the transformer. Remove the R7 & R8 resistors.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_pulse.jpg)
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I have breadboarded it twice, and this is all I get at the output before the transformer.
One channel stays on all the time (or the frequency is too high on one of the sig gens - two 555 timer circuits)
Wouldn't it be easier to use just one sig gen and invert it instead of two?
This circuit's output is not clean at all, very noisy.
Also, you must have used tap water in your test cell and not distilled?
I am using distilled to ensure I get no electrolysis, but cannot get it to do anything.
I do get small bubbles when I use another circuit which puts out around 450VAC (flyback driver circuit)...
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not sure why its not working for you, I use distilled water for all my testing. You have to have two signals, one is the resonant frequency signal and the other is the gating signal.
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This is the layout of my circuit.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_circuit.PNG)
Heres the PDF of the circuit, if you want to build it.
http://www.globalkast.com/docs/Alternating_DC_Pulse_Generator_with_LED.pdf (http://www.globalkast.com/docs/Alternating_DC_Pulse_Generator_with_LED.pdf)
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Wow, thanks for that info.
The waveform I get is channel A is on 4x as long as channel B.
At least it does alternate now though.
I still do not get anything happening at the cell though.
Right now I am so frustrated I think the only way to get the water to do anything is to drive two 40kv flyback transformers on and off and shock the water with it.
I'm sure that may cause an effect of some type ;)
All the other things I have tried have failed, and I think the voltage just isn't enough.
What kind of transformer are you using - a step-up?
I used a primary of approx. 600 turns to a secondary of 3500 turns - no effect.
I also tried a primary of approx. 600T and secondary of 5500 turns - no effect.
I also tried with and without a diode on the secondary - no effect.
It's no wonder most people say this is all bunk - so far, it appears to be.
The average experimenter would have given up on all this decades ago.
If only we had Stan's devices to examine...
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I think that's because it's like what Steve Meyer said "It's a tuned system". If a single one of the many different parameters of the circuit are not correct it will not work....At least for the VIC and resonant cavity....Not sure if the steam resonator is the same. The use of the driving circuitry of the steam resonator coil being identical to the resonant cavity driving circuitry seems to suggest it.
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You may be right, and if that's the case, we have no hope of ever getting it to work - without having Stan's original devices to replicate.
If it's that specific, we will be burning oil for the next 200 years.
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I think we will figure it out eventually, but it will take a team effort.
We have made many strides on this forum thanks to everyone's contributions.
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Thanks for the input everyone, although the circuits look great on paper, in reality all you get is a VERY hot 7805 regulator.
Perhaps I need to use other signal generators for the circuit.
It does NOT like 555 timer inputs, I know that - even if powered at 5V.
Atached is the 555 square wave generator I was using (2 of them).
If you run the circuit with no signal inputs, the two 220 ohm resistors on the TIP120s burn up.
Add two 555 signal generators and the 220 resistors burn up along with the 7805 regulator.
I feel like taking the picture tube out of a tv and putting a water cell in its place just to get even with the water!!
Perhaps that is not a bad idea after all ;)
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As I was searching the net for scientific papers on water oscillation I came across 2 patents in which coencentric stainless steel tubes have an oscillating frequency passing through them to heat water....Looks like these poeple were using the same methods as Meyer was to heat water.
Attached are the two patents....Only a quick read will reveal that these patents used the same tech as Meyer to heat water....Further study opens up questions on ion-drag as a way to heat dielectric materials (water) using a low frequency oscillating source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_heating
(Read the part on the Mechanism)
Here's a quote from the first patent I attached from the "Summary of the invention"
The chamber has an inner stainless steel tube about which the water flows. Surrounding both the inner stainless steel tube and the flowing water is an outer stainless steel tube. The two coencentric stainless steel tubes are used as electrodes that are connected to a source of electrical oscillations. As the water passes between the two stainless steel tubes, these electrical oscillations are impresses upon the flowing water so that the water may be heated.
Enjoy Everyone
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HMS:
Nice find - although from the patents it mentions dissolved metals in the water.
They may be using some kind of electrolysis, which is worthless for our purposes (at least mine).
Tony:
I scrapped the 555 signal generator crap I had and came up with this circuit to generate the alternating pulses.
It generates a nice clean signal on the scope, but still fails to drive your steam resonator board properly.
Perhaps there needs to be an interface between the two circuits?
What did you use to drive the circuit when it worked for you? - Perhaps you said something nice to it for it to work?
The scope is set to 5V / div.
I have also breadboarded Stan's steam resonator patents numerous times, failing on all of them.
He could have 'happened' to leave things out to keep us from getting it I think...
What am I doing wrong?
My cell and vic are also shown below.
Obviously, the top alligator clip it not stainless, but the pipe is.
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Waterfreak - I used two of Stan's basic frequency generators to drive the circuit
HMS - A named Peter Davey may hold the key to Stan's steam resonator tech and he is still alive, but he's in in 90's so we need to get to him before he dies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JrpdVZyt_s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JrpdVZyt_s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juBc6r2fG54 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juBc6r2fG54)
(http://keelynet.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sonicboiler2.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/w7ge2t.png)
(http://www.overunity.com/4083/peter-davey-heater/dlattach/attach/69964/image//)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/66fe2q.png)
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Tony,
Yes, I saw info on him, and the discovery is amazing.
However, like most good technology, there are no specifics or replications.
He has passed away, it appears.
I will do some research and try to find a sig gen that will work.
Do you think the signal generator from Stan's 8xa circuit will work?
I think the main issue is the interface between the signal generators and the driver board.
Thanks for all the help!
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Definately interesting stuff.
I think Meyer's water heating is more along the lines of using electrostatic forces to cause oscillation, about the same way a microwave does. Personally I think those patents are right on, but they don't provide any diagrams. The explanation they give though fits right in with Meyer's. I think the only difference is Meyer used resonance to reduce the power requirements.
Don stated the steam resonator driver circuit was the exact same as all the circuits used to drive the resonant cavities.
From the picture we know the steam resonator VIC (the buggy one) had 3 seperate coils, so we have a primary coil, a secondary coil, and a pulse pickup coil.
I tend to think the primary coil is the one connected to the FWB since it is the heaviest gauge. And the secondary coil is connected to the NPN/PNP transistors. The connections from the transistors to the steam resonator tubes are not there. I think the wire ends not connected to anything are the pulse pickup coil. I think the FWB may have been used to protect the primary driving transistor from HV spikes but in that case I wonder why regular diodes weren't just used?
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If you look at the theories behind Peter Davey's technology, it revert back to my theory of Meyer's and Puharich's tech of the "beat" phenomenon where 2 frequencies are merged to give a new frequency or AM signal.
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Yeah I did notice that but I'm not understanding it???
What purpose does the amplitude modulation serve?
(I have to add also that I have got amplitude modulation in some of Meyer's VIC matrix circuit multisim replications)
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From what I've learned about the AM signal is that it acts as a Wave–particle duality. This vibrates the molecule!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Wave_particle_duality_p_known.svg/500px-Wave_particle_duality_p_known.svg.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Wave_particle_duality_p_unknown.svg/380px-Wave_particle_duality_p_unknown.svg.png)
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What kind of transformer would be best - a step-up?
I know Stan had two different resonators - one had 4 conductors, the other had only two.
The waveforms appear to be correct now, but nothing happens at the cell regardless of what you do.
The greatest mystery is - what goes between the output of the circuit and the cell - a diode on the secondary?
Perhaps a diode needs to be added to the output of the circuit before the transformer?
Also, how long did your cell take to heat up the water at all?
Are the signal inputs actually 5V or 12V?
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Ok I think I understand....
So are you saying the molecule vibration is the "resonant action" (particle oscillation) that Meyer talks about?
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From everything I've read between Meyer and Puharich, I would have to say Yes! :-)
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Is this how the board should be connected?
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Here are the connections.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_circuit2.PNG)
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Thanks for the clarification.
I will input 5V square waves and see what happens.
The transformer - it looks like a 1:1 - is that right?
Also, wouldn't some diodes be needed on the output to cut down the back EMF and
to protect the TIP120's, or is that what we are after?
I will try a few different ones to see which works best.
Wouldn't it be great if I could get some hot water!!
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HMS - A named Peter Davey may hold the key to Stan's steam resonator tech and he is still alive, but he's in in 90's so we need to get to him before he dies!
(http://i41.tinypic.com/w7ge2t.png)
Interesting water-gap!
Stan Meyer 0.0950 inch = 2.4 millimeters
Peter Davey 0.0826 inch = 2.1 millimeters
Looks like Peter used "Three" frequencies: 350, 49, 1000Hz
So there must be a "key note" for the water molecule and use this fundamental frequency and put harmonic on it or enharmonic ?
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22201.html#msg22201 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22201.html#msg22201)
Note:
If you have a fundamental frequency (sinewave) and then put a harmonic (sinewave) on the fundamental we get a new shape.
"There are several important aspects to this new shape.
First, its shape is not a simple sine wave, so it will sound richer than just a pure tone.
Second, even though the shape is different, the period and frequency are the same as the fundamental above.
This is very important, because it means that the pitch stays the same.
So, now we can see the connection between shape, harmonics and tone quality.
If add harmonics to the fundamental, we change the shape of the wave, but not its pitch, so this gives us a way of independently controlling the tone quality without affecting the pitch. It does not matter if we add a wave at 3f, 7f, or 32f. The shape will change but the pitch will not."
Br,
Webmug
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Here's something I want to test.
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The upload did not come out right. I will retry
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The tumb nail leaves off detail. Download the jpg. The plate connection is top center
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Circuit explained:
The transistors are configured as an H-bridge.
This series of transistors will take 400 volts.
T1 is a 1:10 step-up. T2 is the choke coils bifilar wrapped similar to the 8XA.
The bridge diodes should act as the blocking diode.
The CD4047 will deliver a near perfect 50/50 pulse.
The only thing I’m not sure of is the value of the bias resistors for the transistors,
and the overall frequencies.
I plan on winding the coils on a large ferrite U core, probably with 18 gauge wire.
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Thanks everyone for the submissions!
With a team effort, we can solve this!
Tony has been very generous and helpful with information - some of us, like myself, have submitted what we can.
The explanations make sense regarding the audio signals and different harmonics...
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I am discovering some interesting pulse combinations with this circuit, but still no hot water, regardless of water type (distilled, tap, well, etc.)
@Tony:
Did you use resistive wire in your vic by chance?
I am using copper on pri and sec and both have no effect...
Primary: 7.5 ohm
Secondary: 72 ohm
It could also be the core I am using - it is a ferrite rod with permeability of around 200.
I am not using any chokes...
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The last thing I am trying to understand is if the steam resonator tubes were part of an open circuit or a closed circuit. A transformer will still provide voltage in an open circuit. One of Meyer's drawings shows the tubes connected to ground making a complete circuit so I'm not sure. Or does the water act as a ground?
What do you guys think?
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Yes, this is confusing to me also HMS, Stan's document shows a separate ground for an optional 'heat resonator'?
The ground seems to be separate from that of the primary and driving circuitry.
I have built that circuit with many variations, and got no results.
I believe Stan left something out intentionally, for patent reasons.
Below is a pic from my scope using Tony's alternating dc circuit which is supposed to heat the water, but so far the only thing it heats is the two 220 ohm resistors, and they get HOT!
The scope is connected at the secondary of the transformer, across the cell.
Water is distilled. Scope is set to 5V / div, so the signal amplitude is approx. 20V.
I am certain the fault lies somewhere in my transformer construction, which only Tony knows how to build correctly.
My transformer consists of approx. 600 turns 29AWG magnet wire primary and 3000 turns 29AWG magnet wire secondary, on a ferrite rod with permeability of 200.
It can't be anything else, because the waveforms and circuit seem to be working correctly...
I am not giving up though - each day you fail is one day closer to success!
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That waveform is exactly what I'm seeing in my multisim designs as well.
If you remove those high ohm resistors the waveform will become more square.
But you probably need a higher secondary inductance to limit the current in a way which does not dissipate so much power and mess up the waveform.
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HMS, the scope reading is from Tony's circuit with the TIP120 transistors, and there are no high value resistors in the circuit...
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Here is a link to a pdf I think some of you may find interesting...
http://bloq.computerworld.pl/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/czajnik.pdf
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Bubz,
Nice find! It is interesting in that the document refers to frequencies that affect the water molecule.
I believe the steam resonator is not as specific as the resonant cavity unit though, as it only needs to pulse two plates alternately + then - in sequence.
I believe our issues lie in the transformer design. The only ones I know who have been successful are Tony and Don, to some degree.
I am not aware of any others who claim to have the steam resonator working, or to have heated water any other way aside from electrolysis.
I will try augus' circuit and see if I get better results than with Tony's resistor heater!
Augus: Is the 1khz source in your diagram from another external 1khz source or is it the 4047 listed in the circuit?
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The title of this video is misleading, but, what is really being shown is how water can be heated with a resonant cavity and without an alternating electric field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdOJZDWJkuk
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The 1 kHz signal is separate and is just a guess for a starting point. I have not have time to test my circuit and it was drawn from memory of driving motors forward/reverse.
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The steam resonator is more complicated than the resonant cell itself.
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Why do you say that Sebosfato?
It seems to me the SM has 3 coils. Primary, secondary, pulse pickup. The pulse pickup coil is used witht the PLL circuit to detect and lock on to the self resonance of the secondary coil. At the secondary coils self resonance it becomes a parallel tank circuit which has a nearly infinite impedance. Rectify the output since the parallel tank creates AC (rectifiers shown at each switching transistor on the home heating unit) and switch the transistors at high speed to change the polarity across the tubes and you heat the water in the same fashion as a microwave.
There's probably more to it than that, as we have discovered about most of Meyer's work but for now that's my understanding.....
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I'm saying that, because i believe it is kind of a doubled vic so if you can't put a 1 vic to work how think that with 2 it would.
Of course we know stan used 11 vics to put it to work..
The paper accepts any theory, however in the practice the theory is another.
When we understand why meyer says that voltage can perform work in a dead short condition, than we will understand how the steam resonator goes.
I just wanted to point you in the direction stan pointed keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.
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So, in order to think outside the box, we first have to think inside a box?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FcwRYfUBLM
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So, from what I have learned there are a few ways you can build the steam resonator.
-You can use Tony's circuit which is kinda like a halfbridge driver.
-You can build a fullbridge driver to switch the polarity at the primary coil
-Or you can switch the polarity directly at the resonator.
Switching the polarity at the secondary side (directly at the resonator) gives the most flexibility as this way you can drive the coil at a constant frequency. This way changing the switching frequency will not change the impedance of the coil, and you can switch the polarity as fast as you want. I'm not sure if Meyer used 'Dead time' between switching or if that was why he had those high watt resistors to prevent the short circuit during the swictching overlap. The Tech Brief diagrams do show dead time though. Trying to figure out how to add it to the driving circuit???
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Has a frequency been determined? We know that water efficiently adsorbs energy from infrared and microwave frequency ranges, but, are there any special frequencies we could use that are in the sound and ultrasound ranges?
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AFAIK no specific frequency has been found. I think it depends on the transformer setup.
Tony says he generated hot water using his alternating dc circuit, and I believe him.
However, I think he is doing something more exotic with the transformer or the cell, as those are
the only two variables, beside the two signal inputs, that could affect it.
I believe the frequency will depend on the cell, transformer, and the water, but you would think
it would be more forgiving than the resonant cavity, as it is simply alternating HV on and off...
Another curious fact is meyer's steam resonator coil has much thicker wire than the dunebuggy
coils - does this tell us it was a lower voltage than on the resonant cavity coils?
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Tony's circuit is bunk.
I, and it seems many other, on this site have built the steam resonator circuit he posted and got ---- nada!
The only thing I accomplished was frying 220 ohm resistors because they overheated so badly.
If you are going to post something that you claim works, make sure it does - we may actually try to build it.
If someone has an idea that does work and is not just trying to get publicity, feel free to post - I will be the first to chip in!
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Which circuit/s are you speaking of meyertech? I was not aware Tony had anything posted.
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This is the circuit Tony posted that does not work.
Perhaps there is more to it than has been released.
All I know is that the circuit, as posted, does not work. Plain and simple.
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I never said it worked as far as converting water into steam. I just said this was a circuit I made and tested that does the flip-flop to the input signal. I used the 220 ohm resistors to limit current in the circuit, but they aren't needed...you can replace the 220 resistors with a wire if you'd like. But once again, I never claimed the circuit produced steam, if it did them we would also have all the WFC tech working properly, since the steam resonator is a spin-off technology of the WFC.
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Yes, but you mentioned it did heat water.
Any heat would ne nice, as long as it is no only the resistors that get flame!
I will try with different resistor values on he TIPs also.
Thanks for updating
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I said if it acts like AC power, then it should heat water. As in if you take 120vac mains voltage and feed it directly to your cell, it will heat water very fast.