A green and clean environment is a human right!
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: AncientMist on November 18, 2010, 09:52:48 am
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Hey everyone.
Judging on how Stanley Meyer that went on using water for fuel I feel like the most important part of his discovery was the VIC. Because of VIC it can also be translated to the gas and ambient air processor in turn lead into the hydrogen fracturing process. Actually the VIC is used in about everything.
I have tried to see how voltage will go to inifinity but this only works without the diode. Can someone collaborate on this? What is know is that in the circuit simulation for a series LC circuit the use of an alternating source at resonant frequency will allow voltage go to infinity.
A theory that I have from Stan is that the capacitor needs a negative pulse and also a positive pulse at the same time to split the water molecule. A example would be to start out with +10 volts pulsed and also -10 volts pulsed across the capacitor, which results in a total difference of 20 volts. If this would have the resonant effect for the positive side and also the resonant effect for the negative side, both sides would go to infinity depending on components.
Would this be the same as just starting with a +20 volts on the positive side while the negative side starts out at 0 volts while it never increase? Only the positive side will resonant to infinity?
The Sync-pulse circuit to what I believe clearly demonstrates this. The diagram is below.
Another question did Stan simplify the VIC circuit from the Sync-Pulse or is just the simple VIC representation the beginning circuit that later transitioned to the Sync-pulse?? The VIC diagram is below.
I know this is the same potential difference across the WFC but looked at a different way.
I have read so much on many forums without any luck. :-[
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I was thinking about what Stan said in the video at that school: current lags 90 degree on voltage, so, what if the HV has no effect on the water and the 'fracturing' is just electrolysis at resonance (all the energy to the water) which happens 90 degree later?
I think it is more interesting if no bubbles appear using the correct VIC.
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as far as i understand the sync pule and the normal vic create the same waveform, the sync pluse came later, maybe as another design configuration for improved performance, but they try to do the same thing, the chokes are wound 1:1, so what ever voltage signal comes out of the secondary and goes into the positive choke, will be mirrored exactly, 1:1, into the negative choke, so it doesn't matter that the negative choke is grounded, while the positive choke is connected to the top of the secondary
if you look at the sync pulse as a next-step advancement over the normal vic, then you'll see that the ground connection is even further back from the cell than before, with more wire in the way, making it harder to leak electrons, and to further restrict electrons as voltage is taken to higher and higher levels, also the vic structure is mirrored even more on the positive and negative side, to emphasize this balance, and make everything as balanced as possible, because now you are not only using the 1:1 chokes, but also the secondary is 1:1 on each side of the center-tap, and remember that the chokes are just part of the secondary, he says the the circuit requires a secondary that may be composed of resonant charging choke segments that vary from zero to 2000 volts or more, and this refers to a few things, including the fact that the voltage ratio comes form the turns ratio, and the increase in turns increases both voltage output and impedance and amp restriction, which results in higher hydrogen gas yield, all keeping in mind that the chokes are building with distributed capacitance and inductance so that when you make then bigger you don't just add more inductance
also remember that as the years went on he reveled more and more about the "process"... while the "systems" just advanced to higher and higher efficiency and performance, it's all the same "process", the goal of every system is the same, the differences in the systems show the advancements, so when he talks about a feature in a new system... it could still be important in the old systems too... he just wasn't telling anyone about the VIC for the first 10 years at all.
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Please pardon the jump in... saw this as topical
what about this theory?
http://www.alexpetty.com/2010/11/17/meyers-gas-core-transformer/
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Please pardon the jump in... saw this as topical
what about this theory?
http://www.alexpetty.com/2010/11/17/meyers-gas-core-transformer/ (http://www.alexpetty.com/2010/11/17/meyers-gas-core-transformer/)
Yes I have seen that. It is very interesting but their process is combining different versions of Stan Meyer. Stanley Meyer gave clear ideas of his process in his videos and also his Tech brief. Even though the Tech brief dealt with the use of water.... If you watch the New Zealand video he tells you the process on the EPG system. He uses a compound of argon/iron mix to make the magnetic gas. The magnetic gas was created by the VIC on the argon atom to link up with the iron. This just created an impressive power transformer with high efficiency.
With the VIC in actuality you can make any compound by using the VIC to strip of electrons on a atom. This is why the VIC is so important to get down since it starts the trend for every advancement.
as far as i understand the sync pule and the normal vic create the same waveform, the sync pluse came later, maybe as another design configuration for improved performance, but they try to do the same thing, the chokes are wound 1:1, so what ever voltage signal comes out of the secondary and goes into the positive choke, will be mirrored exactly, 1:1, into the negative choke, so it doesn't matter that the negative choke is grounded, while the positive choke is connected to the top of the secondary
if you look at the sync pulse as a next-step advancement over the normal vic, then you'll see that the ground connection is even further back from the cell than before, with more wire in the way, making it harder to leak electrons, and to further restrict electrons as voltage is taken to higher and higher levels, also the vic structure is mirrored even more on the positive and negative side, to emphasize this balance, and make everything as balanced as possible, because now you are not only using the 1:1 chokes, but also the secondary is 1:1 on each side of the center-tap, and remember that the chokes are just part of the secondary, he says the the circuit requires a secondary that may be composed of resonant charging choke segments that vary from zero to 2000 volts or more, and this refers to a few things, including the fact that the voltage ratio comes form the turns ratio, and the increase in turns increases both voltage output and impedance and amp restriction, which results in higher hydrogen gas yield, all keeping in mind that the chokes are building with distributed capacitance and inductance so that when you make then bigger you don't just add more inductance
also remember that as the years went on he reveled more and more about the "process"... while the "systems" just advanced to higher and higher efficiency and performance, it's all the same "process", the goal of every system is the same, the differences in the systems show the advancements, so when he talks about a feature in a new system... it could still be important in the old systems too... he just wasn't telling anyone about the VIC for the first 10 years at all.
Hey Donaldwfc,
Ok I see where you are coming from in you presentation. But what I do not get is relationship between the secondary to the chokes. Is the secondary part of the choke, I mean I know they are separate but do they work together? Where did you find this information Donaldwfc that Stan spoke of in you own words that it requires a secondary that may be composed of resonant charging choke segments that vary from zero to 2000 volts or more). From what I can tell is that the secondary just provides an isolation and also a voltage increase. The chokes in series with the WFC resonant to step charges the voltage. But in order to do that the diode needs to be removed cause voltage need to be transitioned back and for.
Another question is where is the ground for the Simple VIC circuit?
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That Gas core theory is not what Stan was talking about, I mean, what they are doing there is showing two different systems of Stans and mixing them together, and giving them incorrect names, we know exactly what that transformer looks like from the control and driver patent, and they show it as a gas core, which is wrong, Yes, the EPG can be used as a transformer and a VIC, but I wouldn't call it a Gas core, because the gas isn't acting like a core, a core concentrates the magnetic flux, but this EPG, this is different, the gas is itself magnetized, and it's just being moved around, so calling it a gas core is a misunderstanding, it's more like a gas-rotor alternator, where in an alternator the rotor has "field coils" to make a magnetic field, to induce voltage in the stator, where as in the EPG you have the magnetic gas acting like your "field coil" to produce the magnetic field, which is pumped around, to induce a voltage in the pickup coils (stator)
Anyway, good luck to them, it's nice to see them thinking for themselves and actually building things, through this they will learn a lot.
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The chokes are part of the secondary, as he says in the control and driver patent, and if you look at the transformer you can see it has 5 coils all on the same core, the meaning of a secondary is a coil on the core that picks up magnetic flux induced by the primary, so anything that is not a primary coil (or input coil) is a secondary coil (or output coil) ... and the "three secondaries" (secondary and two chokes) are in series... there are different ways to think of it, but they all have a voltage induced in them from the core, and they are connected together, electrically and/or magnetically
the diode is used to disconnect the circuit (open circuit) (non-conducting)(diodes only conduct in ONE direction) when the voltage goes negative, to keep it from discharging the capacitor, and to allow the magnetic field from the chokes to collapse and create another pulse, to double the frequency
the resonance is not AC resonance
the ground you are asking about is labeled J in your drawing, Isolated electrical ground, there is no ground symbol in the drawing, it just says it.
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interesting theory kickback.. here a couple perspective i have..
Stan had to develop (invent) a voltage intensifier circuit to create a electrical particle generator.. The electrical particle generator uses argon gas that has metal ions taking place of electrons which were plucked with the vic..
Stan made this argon/ metal ion gas with a voltage intensifier circuit.. This means the vic is a truely profound invention that does things that are not practiced in the art... Things such as creating a magnetic gas argon with metal ions.. As well as his hydrogen fracturing process and the others
The electrical particle generator can play a major role in the efficiency of the water fuel cell system.. It does not have to do with the gas flowing in the core of the electrical particle generator though in my opinion based on my findings..
I think stan was using the expansion of the fuel gas production to pump the magnetic gas within the electrical particle generator.. there is no reason we can not use the expansion to pneumatically drive a pump that pumps the magnetic gas...
To make it where you jump start the unit with a voltage source to the point that expansions pumps the gas to drive the circuit (electrical particle generator vic) without the voltage needing to be supplied by a source ( being self sustaining in production) ..
To make a electronic device that's job is to turn a liquid to a gas could be looked at as providing a air pressure source in the process..
air pressure can be used to drive pneumatic devices
I would say there is needed research into how safe is pneumatic devices with a flammable gas driving it..
If there is not conflict with sparking or heat that can cause ignition to drive a pneumatic motor then you are following the rules of conservation in a extent not really noticed.. Consider the expansion from liquid to gas as energy being dissipated in the circuit and you have the opportunity to harvest that dissipation (expansion / gas pressure)
To create this type of self sustaining unit you create a device that can harvest fuel gas without external power to make the fuel.. the only thing that would be needed to maintain the process is water.. the water becomes the fuel for keeping the device on..
So you can produce large amount of fuel gas on a self sustaining unit as long as you provide the water.. when or if it runs out of water there is no more gasses being produced to drive the pneumatic motor to drive the magnetic gas so the voltage drops and the device will shut down..
This device will provide a fuel gas (hydrogen and oxygen gasses) at the cost of water for the most part.. It still has to be perpetuated (jump started)
This is what i would like to see
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outlaw, yes you could make the output of the EPG run the cell and then have the gasses run the EPG, after being jump started, and I encourage anyone to try!
some details to be considered is that the frequency of the output of the EPG depends on the number of coils and the speed of the gas, and the strength of the magnetic field, and the speed of the gas depends on the gas flow, and the magnetic field depends on the pressure, and the gas production depends on the voltage, and the resonance depends on the frequency, and all the parameters are interrelated, so to the person who wants to build this I say have fun. Yes it's possible, but one hell of an intricate system.
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Yes outlawstc
I discussed this with steve last year...
The following graphic shows the amount of over unity you will have accordingly with the efficiency of the h2 generator, efficiency of the generator driven by the pressure equated.
We all know that nuclear plants uses heat to expand water, to drive turbines. However as you know when you create h2 you create the expansion and still can burn the gas later. A plastic turbine driving an alternator would do the job-
However the EPG was better in that it could actually generate direct current with no diodes.
The graphic represents the resonance of the energy generated by the expansion going into the generator generating more pressure and so on... Feedback would be a better definition.
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To explain better,
For every 1 watt that gets into the electrolyser, if you have 90% overall efficiency you will have 9 more watts of gas generated.
i made this graphic.
Its very very danger cause pressure can build up very quickly depending on the configuration. Fast fredy discovery or claim that they can create a gas that can handle high pressure would be the key to solve this problem.
The fact is that you can create a double feedback effect, the first being the pressure from the expansion. The second the further expansion, by recycling the lost heat so you can get up to more than 120% thus very high overunity gain geometric in this case.
After 99% the gain increases widely by every fraction of %.
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The best way anyway is to generate the gases separately for obvious reason.
To achieve good efficiency platinum pd and membrane must be used. high surface.
Obviously than you should use two turbines one for oxygen an other for h2, and they must be exactly dimensioned, to not get the gas mixed thru the membrane.
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The chokes are part of the secondary, as he says in the control and driver patent, and if you look at the transformer you can see it has 5 coils all on the same core, the meaning of a secondary is a coil on the core that picks up magnetic flux induced by the primary, so anything that is not a primary coil (or input coil) is a secondary coil (or output coil) ... and the "three secondaries" (secondary and two chokes) are in series... there are different ways to think of it, but they all have a voltage induced in them from the core, and they are connected together, electrically and/or magnetically
the diode is used to disconnect the circuit (open circuit) (non-conducting)(diodes only conduct in ONE direction) when the voltage goes negative, to keep it from discharging the capacitor, and to allow the magnetic field from the chokes to collapse and create another pulse, to double the frequency
Really appreciate the analysis on how the coil interacts with each other... :) I actually had a good understanding on that and very informative for anyone that does not have a clear understanding.
the resonance is not AC resonance
the ground you are asking about is labeled J in your drawing, Isolated electrical ground, there is no ground symbol in the drawing, it just says it.
Ok now I am getting somewhere. I just missed the words for ground. Thanks Donaldwfc.
And now the one question what is the resonance problem. What would this be?
After understanding the renosance is not AC, I have a theory of maybe the resonance is the charging and discharging of the WFC. Now bear with me but I seen that voltage will bring on a stressed stretch the H2O bond because the water is a dielectric material. Now with the high voltage across the water reaches to high then water will have a dielectric breakdown episode. When this happens a short amount of time current does flow across the WFC, but what gets good is because current flow across the WFC it then goes to the second choke coil. This would turn the current into the doulble pulse induced for the first choke coil like Stan said. Any thoughts?
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After studding Tesla, he said his oscillator was very important, no reverse electrical flow, when the electrons flowed, the radiant event stopped, the coil in his design magnified this energy. regarding Meyers, I don't remember which video it is, a physics professor said only one wire was attached to one of the tubes. I just have a feeling the Meyers V.I.C will not work if the oscillator does not pulse the signal to the coil as Tesla required for his system. As far as I can tell meyer's system is a scaled down version of Tesla's, just applied to perform a different task
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By geometric i mean that as you get the feedback from the energy regenerated thru the expansion of the water into gas this will be exponential, but if you than utilize some of the heat of the burning of the hydrogen to create a second feedback, the energy will multiply more than exponentially, will be Geometric. So resonance consisting in two feedbacks being the second in consequence of the first.
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I just thought a way to transform the pressure into movement in order to create electrical energy thru the use of an alternator or the epg system.
Basically i would construct a kind of two cylinder pump having a crankshaft just like an ice engine, but small and made of delrin like plastic. Than just need to add two double action solenoids, or 4 solenoids to control the cycles of gas injection and release. I was thinking and this seem to be the most efficient and safe way. Is important it to be made of plastic, to avoid sparks and hydrogen leak. Acetic plastic is known to have a self lubrication. One thing that is concerning me is the temperature.
So lets say the hydrogen generator vessel maintain maybe 50psi and move this pump accordingly with the flow of gas. The pump in turn, is connected to a generator being an epg preferable or an alternator.. .
A transformer is known to have efficiency of up to 95% so that and the fact that the epg will generate Dc so no diodes are needed, Thus Epg would be the best way to re generate the electricity.
I guess An alternator is less efficient than this and would also need the diodes so losses.
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Wish i could examine the epgs myself.
If you think about the ice engine if used with direct injection, common rail, would already perform the function of the pump. So the pressure of the h2 would do some work pushing the piston down, however would give the explosion punch too. being the crankshaft connected to the eog would generate electricity efficiently.
However as i said temperature and pressure must be considered. Using the heat of the engine would mean that the temperature and pressure of the vessel would need to be supported.
Basically if we could maintain a pressure of at least 20 bar on the vessel without the thing explode, would be possible to make the thing work.
Prevent water from reforming???
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Arithmetic progression is the sequence of numbers that can be created adding always the same number to the last sequentially.
ex: 2 +3 =(5) +3=( 8) +3=(11) + 3=14 2 5 8 11 14 so the increasing factor is 3 here.
What i mean by Exponential is that when you have a certain number of watts for example, 100 watts, than this creates some hydrogen and oxygen from water, water expand and you have a generator that can convert this energy into electricity at 90% efficiency, and you than apply this energy to generate more has than you would have:
100w original + 90% of 100W than + 90% 0f 90W than 90% of 90% of 90W....
Now by geometric i mean
100W original + ((90% of 100w)+90% of 90%of100w) + (...
So the heat feeding back into the pressure feedback.
We all know that heat expands gases.
So you apply one energy and ends up with ex: 90% of the original transformed and used to generate it self. You just create a cycle where energy is conserved, energy still exist over time don't matter we have spent before, energy is not consumed created or destroyed is transformed. We usually transform the electrical energy in heat energy. What i'm saying is that interacting with water you can recycle the energy so you start to have a Q factor over witch you will apply energy make the thing work to you during one transformation of state, than use part of the energy back. So you apply 1 energy and than you have in a second moment the applied energy + the energy regenerated+ the energy regenerated from the energy regenerated and so on. So is a classic example of resonance! Like i called in the past, a resonant system.
Again
The fact is that we can transform electricity (water electrolyser) into free pressure + heat (combustion chamber) and than can use the pressure (expanded gas from electrolyser) + heat (from the combustion chamber) to generate electricity (by using the heat to expand further the expanded gas from electrolyser witch by pressure drives an electricity generator) that is directed to share the load (water electrolyser) with the initial supply.
I'm explaining in many ways, cause is not so simple concept for everyone.
I'm not saying its perpetual motion, but if you cycle the energy to any certain amount you would create over unity effects.
Physicists like saying that energy is conserved. Ok so lets just put into resonance and keep using it forever transforming from one form to another cyclicly.
Nice thought i just had.
Vacuum Compression cycle Brake
Imagine a breaking system that uses a piston in a cylinder to break a car for example. You can think about using the piston to fill a tank with compressed air during the operation. But how about instead of letting the air to get into the piston during the intake, to let build up a vacuum, and than open the air valve in the end of the intake cycle to let the air get in and than go to the compression cycle.
I just imagined that the vacuum will create a freezing temperature during its cycle, while you are breaking. So where is the energy going to? The brake will work cool while filling a tank with compressed air. What about this?
The only way to understand is to ask questions...
I think thats what started puzzling maxwell and tesla concerning the vacuum not per se but when created.
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So after getting down and understanding the voltage pulse increase. How is this accomplished? In the charging of the capacitor the diode prevents the blocking of current in the opposite direction. The only thing I can think of is that made sense is a charging of a capacitor with short pulses. These short pulses would look like rectified DC. The rectified pulsed DC charges the capacitor. Along the way the voltage will be high enough for dielectric breakdown.
The question is in the patent 4936961 how is it achieved only the uses the a step up of 3 to 1 and a input of 26 volts which result of 78 volts ouput? How does the capacitor increase to 1000 volts. What I seen on the Tesla DC Circuit the voltage can by multiplied by a factor of two. So if 78 volts x 2 = 156 volts. So 156 volts is the maximum voltage across the capacitor inline with the inductor.
The Telsa DC resonant charging circuit is here. http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html (http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html)
Any suggestions?? How can Stan get the voltage up over 1000 volts with such little input voltage that built over time?
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HEllo,
The vic as its described, works like a charge pump, if you take a capacitor and turn it on you will reach 1000 volts or more, because the output voltage will not follow the rule Ns/Np turns relation. The diode allow the charge to be pumped with the referential of the charged capacitor so voltage continue to build up.
If you construct a vic you will see it by yourself.
If it is powerful enough you will make distilled water get up to high voltage, however if its not that powerful only capacitors will let the voltage to grow up-
For example think, a distilled water having 3kohm of resistance, if you apply one amp you will get 3000 volts. However for this you would need 3000 watts and to pump that into the circuit for real.
So if you are coming from 12 v you would need 250 amps, if 220v only 13 amps
So what i'm saying is that if we have a higher voltage on the primary it becomes easier to make the thing happen. With higher frequency transformer can be very small and need less turns.
We just need to create a good circuit for pulsing the 220 voltage. I tried but everything explodes here... A variac would be handy..
I hope this help you understand.
For example you have a primary having 200 turns of 18awg wire, and a secondary maybe 22 wire, having 200 turns and a diode and the two chokes having maybe 100 turns each being part of the same transformer.
Now come the interesting part, if you made it flyback, the voltage will depend on the duty cycle of the pulse, because the time of the discharge is forced to collapse so voltage bursts can be in the 9kv peak if you create a peak of 3 amps... I mean if you make it pulsed and not dc you can concentrate the pulse to create a higher voltage. So lets say you adjust the duty to have 10 amps at 90% duty cycle, if you discharge it in 10% you will have 9 times greater voltage. Concentrating the pulse. Depends also on the impedance of the load the speed in witch the inductor can discharge all in once. The greater the impedance the fastest it is and the higher the voltage peak.
So we need to design a pulsing circuit that handle 220v input at least 20 amps and capable up to 50khz.
To range the frequencies, different transformers must be made, to find the right configuration. Toroidal transformers work good, you just need to have a big one that can handle this magnetic flux without saturating. An E core with high frequency laminates would be good for a 10khz frequency.
We need stay together to get there.
We should partner up, i don't believe separated independent researchers can do everything alone.
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Maybe 12awg would be better for the primary, having 18 awg for the secondary and chokes...
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The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.
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The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.
Hi Crazyewok
I made much experimentation in last years on the vic connecting it in the most varied ways, and what i found is that when you add the diode in series it will become a pump like it will only conduct during the period the transformer pulse is of so you can charge up the core to the limit and than discharge it all in once concentrating the pulse to get a high voltage by flyback action, but is not only this, it also by the effect of teh charging chokes will behave like a high impedance output voltage source, or at least self adjusting output voltage source, in the sense that i had a vic with the turns recomended by meyer and i was getting instead of 36v i was getting 2000 using capacitors instead of the water, so i understand it as a charge pump, it takes the referential of the charge capacitor maybe in the capacitance side of the diode and keeps charging. If you apply enough energy you can make the voltages go where you want, just need to scale up.
The doubling effect occur not only on the transformer. Think of this, you have a vic transformer driving a load having 1 amp flowing at 1000v thru a set of bifilar coils, if you are applying half wave the diode will block the reversed field to be applied to the coils, however the 1 amp flowing on the coil want to keep moving but as you closed the door it will take your secondary as a reference and push the rest of the amps on the water. I proposed a design witch i have tried here that for one time made the pulses i was expecting, it was transforming the pulses into a full wave like... It consisted of a bifilar coil made with speaker wire about 20m or wire over iron cores, having 2 diodes one in series with the first coil and other coming from the same side where the other is connected but going to the top of the other coil where it goes for the positive electrode. Doing this the collapsed field of the series inductor became another pulse. The inductor opposes changes in the direction of the current, so if you start to make the current to move it will have like an inertia mass added to it, so when you finish the pulse it still want to keep moving. However if you than make it open circuit the field will collapse very fast. So the more the load is a short circuit the more slow will be the discharging of the inductor.
However as i have only a pc scope i'm not able to actually tell you with much sure, also because diodes got burn and i never got that effect again as i stopped experimenting with tap water, well i would need to work more on it.
There is much on this.
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The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.
Yes the more turns on the inductors would not increase more voltage and also more turns on the transformer for for increased volts...
So I think I have the solution to create more voltage. heheheh
Ok so someone this site someone was referencing the PFN which is a Pulse Forming Network. It use is to step up the voltage on the relationship of the coil with capacitors. Now if the coils between other coils were side by side they would create capacitance with each other. This is clearly demonstrated on the parasitic capacitance of the dielectric coating on the wire side by side of the wire. We are not looking at the parasitic capacitance but a capacitance between the multilayered coils. The coils beside each other created capacitance between each other. Now lets think is this what Stan did with the VIC Circuit. Yes!!! This was on the secondary as well on the chokes. Also I just watch the New Zealand video and he say more turns create more voltage. This is not the more turns on a regular one coil inductor but was he saying add more coils side by side each other to create a capacitance effect. :)
Why does he use the phrase inductance/capacitance??? Look at the beginning concepts he demonstrated with figure 8XA.
Actually if you hear him an go back to the Tech brief he show a parallel capacitance. In many of the VIC drawing he show the symbol of a coil instead of the symbol of the inductor. The Coils are a representation of each multilayered inductor.
So in conclusion on will have to just make a multilayered choke. This would result in a step charging affect in the WFC by the means of discharging of each capacitor between each coil. With the step charging effect the voltage will reach to the point of dielectric breakdown of the water molecule. Like Stan said he was dialing into the natural properties of water meaning dielectric breakdown..
Really wish I had the material to build this. So if anyone wants to use their same setup but make the choke a multilayer coil by using the capacitance effect.
The picture of the coil for the Figure 8XA shows the individual coils. How do I know well, look at the coupling
inductance between each coil.
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Has anyone seen the choke for Figure 8XA??? Can this be a Multilayered Coil... The International report has a pic but I can not tell.
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Yes man i think it is.
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Ancient Mist, read the topic in my projects section on the VIC, i did some experimenting on the 8XA, and will continue to do more, when I get some free time from university.
Your conclusions are on track, in the NZ video he says "if i want to increase hydrogen gas yield all I have to do is increase the size of this coil... someone asks a question ... he says ... I'll just design a new one and wrap more coils to it" ... key word here being "coils", he designs a new bobbin, and adds more coil sections to it, so that capacitance increases with the inductance, and like you said he draws the capacitance in parallel, which is what you get when you have a self resonant coil, when you drive a coil near it's self resonant frequency it's impedance goes to infinity, and the capacitance acts in parallel, and since the choke are there to restrict amps, more inductance means more impedance, and since the chokes are on the same core as the primary, it means they also effect the turns ratio for the step up voltage, so they do BOTH, they increase the voltage, and they increase the amp restriction
about the amp surge in the capacitor, think about what this means, the voltage only means a difference of charge, and for the voltage to be maintained means that the charge difference has to be maintained, so if you get an amp surge, this is like saying that the charge has been quickly neutralized, and it's not all of a sudden sucking a massive amount of electrons out of the coil, so it's taking charge out of the water through ions, and if you get enough ions carrying electrons to the plates then you won't be able to maintain a voltage, so what does this mean from a design perspective? well when you raise the voltage level high enough Stan starts talking about entering the liquid to gas ionization state, and it's about this time that he also introduces the electron extraction circuit, so that when he starts ionizing the water, he is able to, and has to, remove the electrons, or they would neutralize the charge on the plates, so i imagine, when someone gets to this experimental stage, they would notice the effect, and then realize maybe they have extra electrons in the water bath they should try to pull out, and if they are there, they should come out of the water, which solves the problem, as well provides free electricity, and sets you up with destabilized gas atoms which when burned will burn hotter, and release more energy
also, the fact that water is a dielectric is important here, worth reading about too
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Ancient Mist, read the topic in my projects section on the VIC, i did some experimenting on the 8XA, and will continue to do more, when I get some free time from university.
Your conclusions are on track, in the NZ video he says "if i want to increase hydrogen gas yield all I have to do is increase the size of this coil... someone asks a question ... he says ... I'll just design a new one and wrap more coils to it" ... key word here being "coils", he designs a new bobbin, and adds more coil sections to it, so that capacitance increases with the inductance, and like you said he draws the capacitance in parallel, which is what you get when you have a self resonant coil, when you drive a coil near it's self resonant frequency it's impedance goes to infinity, and the capacitance acts in parallel, and since the choke are there to restrict amps, more inductance means more impedance, and since the chokes are on the same core as the primary, it means they also effect the turns ratio for the step up voltage, so they do BOTH, they increase the voltage, and they increase the amp restriction
Yes Donaldwfc I have taken a look on your conclusions. Good stuff. The reason I use the Figure 8XA and other beginning Stanley Meyer concepts is because the ideas represented are in the simplest form to learn the theories/basics that would grow into more of Stan's Tech.
Anyways I am just voicing on what I see so on the forums and Stan's Tech in which it can be put together. This is actually the first time speaking my mind... Good thing I am with everyone on seeing the unidentified clues that may have been missed that Stan talked about which he just gave it as common Knowledge.
about the amp surge in the capacitor, think about what this means, the voltage only means a difference of charge, and for the voltage to be maintained means that the charge difference has to be maintained, so if you get an amp surge, this is like saying that the charge has been quickly neutralized, and it's not all of a sudden sucking a massive amount of electrons out of the coil, so it's taking charge out of the water through ions, and if you get enough ions carrying electrons to the plates then you won't be able to maintain a voltage, so what does this mean from a design perspective? well when you raise the voltage level high enough Stan starts talking about entering the liquid to gas ionization state, and it's about this time that he also introduces the electron extraction circuit, so that when he starts ionizing the water, he is able to, and has to, remove the electrons, or they would neutralize the charge on the plates, so i imagine, when someone gets to this experimental stage, they would notice the effect, and then realize maybe they have extra electrons in the water bath they should try to pull out, and if they are there, they should come out of the water, which solves the problem, as well provides free electricity, and sets you up with destabilized gas atoms which when burned will burn hotter, and release
This is an interesting observation. I would of never thought of this. Thank you. So you are saying when voltage is increased to a high enough voltage the electrons that are coming out of the water will neutralize the voltage on the tube resulting in a decrease in voltage. If this is the case then you do not want to have a dielectric breakdown because if this happens voltage will stabilize to 0 voltage potential.
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well you want the hydrogen and oxygen to be pulled apart, but soon after they do, they will try and stabilize as H2 and O2, which is electrically neutral, then again we don't have a lot of details on the amp surge or voltage drop he is talking about, so maybe to get a better understanding of it, we would have to wait until we run into the problem experimentally
then you could consider gating, and what effect this has on limiting the amp surge
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Yeah Its coming together. :D
Stanley Meyer says resonant charging choke... He said it right their, the word resonant tells it all... If you have a multilayered coil with its own capacitance it can resonant by itself... The diode prevents the current from going the other way which allowed the coil to resonant by its own capacitance and inductance. This resonanance in the coil itself will increase the voltage to much higher voltages. With the higher voltages in line with the water capacitor it pulls the water molecule apart. As Donaldwfc noted when this was happening their are free electrons floating around . We do not want free floating electrons because this would result with the possibility of the oxygen and hydrogen gases from recombining. To do this the electrons will travel the postive plate which lowered the voltage potential but was consumed along the way towards the inductor due to the resistance between the WFC and choke. Stan helped this process by adding an resistive element between the first choke and the WFC. The resistive element could have been a light bulb or the resistive wire in the VIC coil. This is why the light bulb light up, it is getting its current from the water!!! This was electron extraction circuit, which was part of the WFC process!! The EEC was used in the WFC, the gas process, and the incoming air processor. Like Stan said.
Now lets look at what Stan said he was producing gas in the off stage. 5 secs on time and up to 90 secs off time. Well it would make sense if energy is stored in the coils inductance and coils capacitance in the on time but when the off time was there it would still be resonating win the off stage. Because the resonance happens in the Choke which is in series with the WFC.
It is noted that the resonance is not between the transformer.
Another thing to point out is that the choke served as two purposes. It was and inductor that did restrict the amps for the incoming current draw from the transformer/input power. The other purpose was to consume the electrons which was the flow of electron from the WFC if it had a high enough resistivity.
In conclusion the Resonant Charging choke did a multiple of things. It increase voltage though its multilayered inductance and multilayered capacitance. It also restrict the amps from the incoming input power. It could also be used to consume electrons from the Water Fuel Cell.
I must say it is all their but I just wish Stanley would have given us a clearer representation on the process. Even though he did but for more practical terms from a electrical engineering standpoint..
I want to here some feedback....
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http://www.ionizationx.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+10.634267539816555+33+5.0+50%0Av+64+176+64+272+0+2+4977.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+144+176+240+272+0+0.0010+10.0+-7.790901240093324+-0.1730688880031575+0.95%0AT+352+128+464+352+0+0.0010+10.0+3.47191652604372+6.219317268934208+0.5%0Ac+608+128+608+208+0+1.0E-7+627.1991425736616%0Ac+608+208+608+304+0+1.0E-8+12075.206339687518%0Aw+352+128+352+48+0%0Aw+352+48+608+48+0%0Aw+608+48+608+128+0%0Aw+560+208+560+416+0%0Aw+560+416+352+416+0%0Aw+352+416+352+352+0%0Aw+464+352+608+352+0%0Aw+608+352+608+304+0%0Aw+464+128+560+128+0%0Aw+560+128+560+208+0%0Aw+352+176+352+128+0%0Aw+240+272+240+416+0%0Al+64+272+128+272+0+1.9999999999999998E-4+7.790901240093786%0Ad+240+176+352+176+1+0.805904783%0Al+240+416+352+416+0+0.01+-0.17306888800315814%0Ar+560+208+608+208+0+3.0%0Ar+144+176+112+176+0+0.1%0Ac+128+272+144+272+0+0.0010+-0.16270803946210677%0Aw+64+176+112+176+0%0Ao+4+64+0+35+40960.0+12.8+0+-1%0Ao+3+64+0+35+1280.0+6.4+1+-1%0Ao+6+64+0+33+80.0+6.4+2+-1%0Ao+11+64+0+33+20480.0+12.8+3+-1%0Ao+0+64+1+291+80.0+9.765625E-5+4+-1%0Ao+17+64+0+291+80.0+12.8+5+-1%0Ao+17+64+0+289+40.0+12.8+6+-1%0Ao+20+64+1+35+40.0+9.765625E-5+7+-1%0A
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i don't think the choke was used to extract electrons, he would have a different resistor/light bulb or circuit to do that, not the same as resistive chokes, that is just to add more resistance along side the chokes impedance
in the injector system he replaces the EEC with positively ionized air... he does the EEC on the air first, then when the water is mixed with the air, and split, the air steals the electrons from the water... a neat trick to do the same thing a different way
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i don't think the choke was used to extract electrons, he would have a different resistor/light bulb or circuit to do that, not the same as resistive chokes, that is just to add more resistance along side the chokes impedance
in the injector system he replaces the EEC with positively ionized air... he does the EEC on the air first, then when the water is mixed with the air, and split, the air steals the electrons from the water... a neat trick to do the same thing a different way
Good points made on both conclusions.
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I think you mis interpret my post. In his "lecture" movies Stan is talking to (who ever is the class) they talk about needing to increase the voltage on the "water cap", the class responds with increasing the input voltage, to which Stan replies, "or increasing the amount of coils here" to which he adds "coils" to the top inductor (between the diode and the cap). Now what I was pointing out was that if this was just an inductor (regardless of how it is wound) adding coils will not increase the output voltage. This only happens with secondaries on transformers. What I am pointing out is if the "inductors" are actually 2 secondaries in paraelle to each other but in series to the main secondary. Nothing overly new to observe. But this changes the calculation for resonance. I am yet to change the calculation but it will have more to do with the interaction between the inductance of the "inductors" vs the colapse time of their magnetic field vs the charge and colapse time of the secondary vs the capacitance (which changes dependant on gas in the cell).
Now all that is one hell of a calculation, also it means that transformers and cells will need to be specifically built as transformers have a range of frequency that they work in, so you will need to know how much capacitance vs inductance you require to build the frequency to operate in. To all of you thinking this sounds easy enough, manipulating the operable frequency ranges of transformers also changes the inductance of the primary and seconary(ies).
Now to you comment about the diode acting as a pump. I am yet to test this but when put in series with caps diodes also maintain voltage, so by placing the diode in between the inductor and secondary the inductor has the voltage of the cap still present accross it. What happens to the secondary of a transformer when there is a voltage across its winding and you saturate the core with a field? does the voltage increase in proportion? Then when the field colapses and the charge tries to stablize how does this effect the primary? i think there is a lot to the diode, more than making a charge pump out of a resonant tank circuit.
Also in tune with this idea, in a lot of Stans drawings he shows that he is recifying the AC and simply using one side of the recifacation. Could you build a reverse circuit? to use the negative side? technically doubling his output from the same work? BUT one step at a time, i am currently trying to source a soft iron square, or even a torid but it is proving difficult where i am.
As per normal please feel free to disect and tell me where i am wrong, be sure to include the reason also :)
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I think you mis interpret my post. In his "lecture" movies Stan is talking to (who ever is the class) they talk about needing to increase the voltage on the "water cap", the class responds with increasing the input voltage, to which Stan replies, "or increasing the amount of coils here" to which he adds "coils" to the top inductor (between the diode and the cap). Now what I was pointing out was that if this was just an inductor (regardless of how it is wound) adding coils will not increase the output voltage. This only happens with secondaries on transformers. What I am pointing out is if the "inductors" are actually 2 secondaries in paraelle to each other but in series to the main secondary. Nothing overly new to observe. But this changes the calculation for resonance. I am yet to change the calculation but it will have more to do with the interaction between the inductance of the "inductors" vs the colapse time of their magnetic field vs the charge and colapse time of the secondary vs the capacitance (which changes dependant on gas in the cell).
Now all that is one hell of a calculation, also it means that transformers and cells will need to be specifically built as transformers have a range of frequency that they work in, so you will need to know how much capacitance vs inductance you require to build the frequency to operate in. To all of you thinking this sounds easy enough, manipulating the operable frequency ranges of transformers also changes the inductance of the primary and seconary(ies).
Now to you comment about the diode acting as a pump. I am yet to test this but when put in series with caps diodes also maintain voltage, so by placing the diode in between the inductor and secondary the inductor has the voltage of the cap still present accross it. What happens to the secondary of a transformer when there is a voltage across its winding and you saturate the core with a field? does the voltage increase in proportion? Then when the field colapses and the charge tries to stablize how does this effect the primary? i think there is a lot to the diode, more than making a charge pump out of a resonant tank circuit.
Also in tune with this idea, in a lot of Stans drawings he shows that he is recifying the AC and simply using one side of the recifacation. Could you build a reverse circuit? to use the negative side? technically doubling his output from the same work? BUT one step at a time, i am currently trying to source a soft iron square, or even a torid but it is proving difficult where i am.
As per normal please feel free to disect and tell me where i am wrong, be sure to include the reason also :)
CrazyEwok, I see you are making a valid point.
Ok yes you can have a higher a voltage thru the step up transformer. Another way was to add more coils in series. This is stated as Stan pointed out is you can add more coils to get higher voltages. Why does he make the mention of coils?? The key word here is more coils not windings.
Windings on a single coil inductor just raises the inductance. The reason he said coils is because he also wanted to add more capacitance between each coil. This creates a multiple capacitors inside the multiple multilayered coil. Just like the fig. 6-1 VIC coil assembly. If you look closely why does he not just use the inductor symbol on his drawing but instead he uses the coil symbol. Sure more coils does add more inductance. In electronics multiple inductors in series add up to a total inductor. What is more important is the capacitance created thru the addition of each coil. A coil beside another coil separated by a material creates a capacitor. The real nature of any inductor has a capactiance effect. A good example is called parasitic capacitance. Parasitic capacitance is capacitance that happens when each winding has different voltage potential separated by a dielectric coating from each turn of the winding.
After looking at the Tech brief when he says inducatance/capactiance. He was not talking about parasitic capacitance. A regular inductor can have a resonant frequency because of the parasitic capacitance is in parallel to the inductors inductance. In conclusion when he said add more coils he adds more inductance while adding more capacitors created by the coils.
Ok so enough said about that. Now what is going to happen starting at the input of the transformer. The input transformer will do a step transformer. The reason for the diode is to let current flow thru (the coils and the capacitors creates by coils) in series with the WFC. When the pulse is terminated the resonant choke will resonant with itself with the capacitor. The voltage and current can go anywhere is want to other than back across the diode. The resonant charging choke does what Stan was trying to say... ;) With this the voltage can charge across the water to reach to the point the water will separate. In addition of the time off for the first inductor the second inductor which is magnetically couple creates a second pulse to be utilized for the continuation of the increase of voltage.
The reason for the use of this type of multiple coil setup is a diode in series with a inductor in series the WFC will only just charge the capacitor. The ionization simulation circuit will show this. By thinking outside of the box the resonance can not happen with the transformer because the diode prevents this.
I see sebofasto is thinking along this terms. Nice work!
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AncientMist
I'm sure that meyer would not make it that easy, in the New Zealand video he actually say that the diagram is only explicative and he would never tell anyone the secret of his patents. What i did is to examine him and other inventors and where they tried to hide their technology, what i found was that there were many similarities. I no longer sure if meyer puts 40kv on water, if he do so he do it creating more electrical energy on the resonance otherwise is kind of impossible to have 40kv across a water gap .. If you have an electrical over unity device than you can destroy the water, run a car, do whatever you want. Meyer showed the water and insisted on it for two reasons, one to hide part of the secret, other to hide the other part of the circuit. Or to keep everyone far from his ideas.
In the end, he had two coils one being adjustable, he showed formulas for air core calculation, capacitance, frequency, mass acceleration, reactance, energy of inductor... He was describing a resonant tank that was tuned into another. If you notice the sync pulse drawing he show a capacitor having a 0v in the middle. I see this as two capacitors coupled. (well i mean being a combined capacitor not simply coupled)
Maybe we could interact on the capacitor with electromagnetic fields also, well i'm not so sure of this.
What is important is to don't get worry if you interpret the meyer work and replicate with a science background. As long as you know what are you doing and calculating everything, is far better than just try to copy things without completely understand.
I started the wrong way spending much money and time constructing vic coils and destructing after cause didn't work, burning oscilloscopes, multimeters, exploding transistors, capacitors, batteries, burning coils, ic's etc. After all i think that if i didn't make this first step, today i would not have the knowledge i have now. So i'm glad i could do this in the past. Today i don't work anymore so no funds for tests over tests however i think that this is the way thinking more than testing sometimes worth the price.
@ crazyewok
about the pump action, try for your self you just need a sig gnerator a multimeter and a transformer with primary and two secondaries or inductors and of course a diode and a real capacitor...
you connect the primary to the sig generator, than you find the configuration of the secondary that create the biggest voltage in the capacitor, there are two options only, found that you just add a diode in the middle between the secondaries, if voltage is the same, revert the diode. I'm not sure if this effect work only if the primary is driven by unipolar pulse (having only one mosfet) but i guess work anyway there is no apparent reason it wouldn't work actually.
I used this to drive resonant tank in parallel as this partly isolate the secondary from the resonant tank. You can see this on my youtube channel on the power device.
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@ sebosfato
I am sorry to here of the wasted efforts on time money for the cause of Stanley Meyer or any other related projects. :( I have had similar events as well on other projects when learning something.
Sure Stan Meyer may have put some things that are not clearly seen but feel it is already there and he give it to you plain as day in the Tech Brief, patents, and videos. This is true when I had no idea about electronics and physics, but the more I learned the more he is telling the truth. From what I tell he described it, it was common knowledge for him.
A good example would be a teacher when they teach something. I do not know if this is going to make sense, but I have had teachers know what they were talking but lacked the communication teaching methods to get it across. It was harder to understand. Stan Meyer was getting the point across but was missing things that were common knowledge for him which for us it is the fine details. This is how I take it but I am open to anything.
The reason for my anylisis for the multiple mutlilayered coil is a couple of reasons.
1. He said that while working with radar he discovered this process. The Pulse Forming Network is used in the radar field.
2. He uses the phrase inductance/capacitance. Inductance is easy to understand but the capacitance is a capacitor form thru between the coils.
3. He shows that there are multiple coils are used instead of one inductor in the fig 6-1 VIC.
4. He uses the coil symbol instead of an inductor symbol.
5. Also the drawings in fig 8xA he shows individual coils with coupling inductance.
What am thinking of is instead of using a single inductor it should be used by a multiple mutlilayered coil. Now as far as the interaction of the transformer goes. This would be a concern with the VIC 6-1. I am just looking at the interaction between the resonant charging choke and the WFC. The reason why the transformer has no magnetic reaction in the fig 8xA.
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Ok I am just throwing this out there but lets look at the words resonant charging choke. I believe Stan Meyer gave this its name for the reason I am about to discuss. If Stan did use a multiple Multilayered coils side by side with dielectric material such a delrin. then the following would be true.
Resonant - when the diode blocks the current from flowing the other direction the Stans special coil that i described can store energy thru its made capacitance and inductance. This could be resonated with certain frequency. This hold true since any inductors due have a self resonant frequency.
Charging - when input voltage is applied the coils self made capacitance and inductance stores energy.
Choke - any inductor is an choke that restricts amps by slowing the process of current fluctuations.
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Yes, I think that too. Stan was very intelligent and was for sure a physicist or electronic, so he speak with much easy about the subjects and make everyone feel like understood, but as long as you learn more and more you start to see where he is trying to fool you and or mislead. In radar they uses resonance and they use a particular core made of magnetostrictive material witch is very expensive thought, Donald L smith talk about this.
I think is very simple, as i'm saying two different resonant tanks combined.
When he speak of coherence he talks about capacitance, inductance, resistance coefficients.
"VIC Coil Assembly (580) of Figure (6-1) as to (690) of Figure (7-8) in reference to Schematic Circuit (620) of Figure (7-1) is constructed in such a way as to rotate and position Inductor Coils (26 - 52 - 56 - 62) to be of the same electromagnetic polarity orientation, indicator mark (e) ... thus, allowing Inductance Fields (FL1 - FL2 - FL3 - FL4) to be aiding one another during the same sequence of pulse-time (T1) ... thereby, allowing Inductance Charging Effect (660) of Figure (7-5) and Resonant Voltage Effect (670) of Figure (7-6) to interact with the dielectric properties of water (Re) to cause and inhibit electron flow (IF) since "electrons" magnetic
Stanley A. Meyer 7-13RE: VIC Matrix Circuit Memo WFC 426
field (547) of Figure (5-9) locks onto the electromagnetic fields of each energized choke coils (FL1/FL2) during Voltage Excitation (Vo -Vn) which, now, brings on and allows "Electron Bounce Phenomenon" (700) of Figure (7-9) to take place. (See Appendix B Note 1)
Electron Bounce Phenomenon
High Voltage Potential of Difference (VO - Vn) (SS' - 617 -RR') is accomplished when magnetic flux lines of force (71a xx 71) (Rp) emanating away from closed-loop magnetic pulsing core (53) of Figure (190) penetrates Inductance coil-windings (52 - 56 - 62) simultaneously during each and every pulse on-time (Tla xxx T1n) as programmable pulse-train (49a xxx 49n T3 - 49a xxx 49n) is adjusted to "Tune - in" to the dielectric property of Water (Re) .... causing mutual inductance (?1) (see equations Eq 28 thru Eq 30) to transform Distributed Capacitance (Cda xxx Cdn) of Figure (7-3) of each inductance coils (52 - 56 - 62) into a coherent Voltage Potential (Yo •..• Vn) equaling the sum of Voltage Potential (Vp) developed across each Pickup Coils (VpT + Vpl + Vp2) ..• producing Dynamic Voltage Potential (600) of Figure (6-3) during repetitive pulsing (49a xxx 49n - T3 - 49a xxx 49n) ... setting up and performing pulsating Opposite Electrical Attraction Fore (SS' ~617 ~ RR' - T3 - SS' ~ 617 - RR') of Figure (7-4) as to Voltage
Dynamics (220) of Figure (3-29) ... triggering Hydrogen Fracturing Process (90) of Figure (5~5) as to (100) of Figure (4-8) ... instantly releasing thermal explosive energy (gtnt) (16) from Water (85) on demand, as illustrated in Taper Resonant Cavity (590) of Figure (6-2) as to (70) of Figure (4-5). The resultant Dynamic Voltage Potential of Difference (opposite electrical attraction force) (SS' - 617 •... RR') is in balance phase of equal electrical intensity (66 = 67) of opposite polarity (positive electrical voltage potential _66 equals negative electrical Voltage potential 66 since the voltage Coefficient of Inductance (FL1/FL2), Voltage Coefficient of Capacitance (Cd1/Cd2), and voltage Coefficient of Resistance (Rs1/Rs2) across choke coils (L1/L2) are the same values ... allowing, Voltage Bounce Phenomenon (700) of Figure (7-9) to be preformed.
I think that when he talk about universal energy he talks about space time resonance, and thermal energy sometimes he talk about the energy present in ambient air.
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Inductor is said to restricts the amps cause it creates an imaginary resistance, for example, if you short a capacitor it will start to oscillate instead of discharging all in once, this is because it will create a imaginary resistance while it accumulate all the energy in its magnetic fields, after the capacitor is completely empty, as the inductor being like inertia added to the current, thus will want to keep let it keep flowing so the capacitor gets charged with reverse voltage, and this is electrical resonance. A capacitor would have a negative resistance associated so when you connect a capacitor to another similar capacitor +- half of the charge immediately go to the other capacitor however as capacitor have a negative resistance to a difference of potential it becomes a critically dumped oscillation witch readily finish so half the energy is destroyed in the vacuum.
I made an analogy to the vacuum brake i thought off, having a piston inside a cylinder witch suffer the action being pushed down having no inlet port open, so it become a vacuum brake, however if you think what is happening, you will ask your self, if you create a vacuum or drop the pressure, you will get a reduction in the temperature, so where is the energy going to?
The idea of this brake is, that in the end of the vacuum cycle, the air valve open letting the air to get in rapidly, to than also use the compression cycle to brake while accumulating energy as pressure.
The same happens in the capacitor in my opinion.
So if we can put energy into the space time, we can use the space time to bring energy into our dimension. Thats why i want to study physics, to learn the Max equations, and general relativity to be able to calculate this things.
There is something called spin connection resonance, SCR, where space time and electromagnetism meet, actually electromagnetism is a consequence of space time.
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So if we can put energy into the space time, we can use the space time to bring energy into our dimension. Thats why i want to study physics, to learn the Max equations, and general relativity to be able to calculate this things.
There is something called spin connection resonance, SCR, where space time and electromagnetism meet, actually electromagnetism is a consequence of space time.
Hey sebosfato. I see you are having some interesting ideas related for energy extraction. I would like you, me, and anyone else to do the same. But discuss it on a different topic. Reason being is I want to keep this topic related to the build, interaction, and properties of the VIC circuit.
I just started this topic of interest for anyone who would like to voice their ideas on how Stan Meyers used the water as a fuel source that is related to the concept of what Stan called universal energy.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=post;board=1.0 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=post;board=1.0)
Inductor is said to restricts the amps cause it creates an imaginary resistance, for example, if you short a capacitor it will start to oscillate instead of discharging all in once, this is because it will create a imaginary resistance while it accumulate all the energy in its magnetic fields, after the capacitor is completely empty, as the inductor being like inertia added to the current, thus will want to keep let it keep flowing so the capacitor gets charged with reverse voltage, and this is electrical resonance. A capacitor would have a negative resistance associated so when you connect a capacitor to another similar capacitor +- half of the charge immediately go to the other capacitor however as capacitor have a negative resistance to a difference of potential it becomes a critically dumped oscillation witch readily finish so half the energy is destroyed in the vacuum.
In this analogy are you talking about just a regular capacitor or a coil made capacitor? Like the one I describe have two coils separated by a dielectric material.
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ok
I meant any inductor, there, i tried to explain why a capacitor is a short circuit and why the energy disappear, to explain how inductor work.
Meyer said to maximize the capacitance, this would mean bifilar or a coil that is hard to wind called... i don't remember now the name, i think is bank winding...
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One thing we haven't touched on yet is the "voltage multiplication on switch off" that the 6-1 coil sections provide, on switch off you have a collapsing magnetic field, but also the collapsing (or building?) electric field, it's like discharging the coil-capacitor into it's self, 14 times in a row, and the effect is not to have a huge current flow, but to have a huge voltage force while the electrons are restricted
i think of it as, if the electrons are trying to move, but they are being jammed between the discharging/charging coil/capacitor then they can't move, so the voltage potential energy for them to move sky rockets, and all this is attached at one end to the plate
another point, is that the 6-1 vic has 14 coil sections, so does the alternator, (or maybe it has 12 depending on the stator, for each phase). this is just a comparison of the 6-1 VIC and the RVIC on how this "voltage multiplication on switch off" would exists in both systems, even though they look and are shaped different, the same electrical effect is working in both
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Voltage multiplication on switch off means: flyback kickback effect!, when you let energy to be accumulated on the gap by having the diode closed during the pulse, what happens is that after the end of the pulse the field will collapse and you will have all the energy accumulated that wants to discharge all in once in the reverse direction.
Important is that the diode conducts only during the off time, now is all about having a higher duty on than off this way you can charge more the core and it will have less time to reverse the pulse.
The speed of the discharge will depend on the resistance of the load, the higher the resistance the faster will be the discharge and the higher will be the voltage multiplication. The ratio of voltage multiplication depends on the turn ration combined to the relation of time pulse on and discharge time.
Time Period = L/R
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a parelle tank circut in resonance has 0 amp draw and infinite voltage potential.
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Hello crazyewok,
A Parallel tank circuit actually is essentially exactly the same as a series circuit, the thing is where is the load, where is the source of the energy and if current recirculates making of it a tank circuit or not.
You can have a parallel circuit drive in series and having a load in series or parallel or You can have a parallel circuit driven in parallel with a series or in parallel load. However is just a cyclic series circuit, and so as the current is able to recirculate, it is called a tank circuit cause it accumulate energy.
A series circuit normally have a series load or a parallel load, however it can be driven in series and in parallel too.
The parameter is if current recirculate or not.
A parallel circuit driven in series mean that you will see by the input circuit 0 impedance so only the real resistance of the circuit. (ex: if you want to drive a resonant tank with 3 amps and it have a total of 3 ohms of series resistance, you will need 12v at the resonant frequency.
If you would drive it in parallel you would see maximum impedance, so you need to calculate the max voltage, having the Q factor or desired amps times reactance and drive it in parallel at the specific voltage.
In a series circuit witch actually is most times drive in series you will have 0 impedance at the resonant frequency so the source will see only the series real resistance in resonance.
So a parallel circuit aways need an energy input, or after Q cycles the energy will finish... There is not a such thing like 0 amps, nor infinite voltage, voltage is limited by the energy you input in the circuit and the breakdown rating voltage of the components.
If you take a resonant tank with lets say another coil coupled to it with a diode, during the off time of the diode the energy will be accumulated in the circuit, and when it reverse the polarity the energy of the circuit will discharge into the load. Ok However this leave no place for the kickback action i my understanding. There is something there however.
Have you ever thought how is the magnetic field of a coil made of copper foil???
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Hey I found some information. I want to give this person credit for finding this information for Stan Meyers used to describe a resonant charging choke. User name is kinesisfilms on WaterFuelCell. I found this information here and this was in mid 2008
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8412
He discusses a choke having its own resonance. Which what I have been discussing. Look at the pics for better understanding.
In conclusion Stan Meyers saying a resonant charging choke was in the use of a Pulse Forming Network!!! It was right their even though he was not spelling it out for us in simple terms. lol Just another example on the relation, it was not as a simple inductor.
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I do have a feeling when he was talking about LC resonance he was not clear on the true capacitance. The true capacitance is the coils capacitance combined with the WFC. This is also may be why he went and used smaller tube to create smaller capacitance to match with the coils capacitance. The inductance is still the same but all coil inductance in series.
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I read those kinesis posts some time ago, we were discussing unipolar wave stan shows in the input of the vic, I found my alternator to give this output however i think the alternator got burned so i can't make further tests... Stan refer as pulse shaping network or circuit. Is same of a 99,999% dutycycle, witch return to the kickback effect...
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So I did know Dynodon had a video on the VIC layout that ran one tube of the VIC circuit. Hydrogenmask has started the thread it is located here. http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1513.msg17736/boardseen.html#new
What I am putting together is in the pictures/videos their are no individual bobbins that share a capacitance effect on each other. Like how the fig 6-1 does. It just shows both chokes individual from each other. From what I have been researching is that the parasitic capacitance can be used if the inductor is properly design. Stans show the the chokes a multilayer inductor. This may also be the reason being that Stan used a small tube set because the tube capacitance is small. Because the coils capacitance is a small capacitance to Start with. Do you remembered he mentioned the coating of the wire need to be over 3,000 volts?
This would mean the resonance is happening inside the Choke itself with its own capacitance and inductance. This is true cause ever coil has a resonant frequency. This resonance in the coil would create high voltages in series with the wfc tube.
This also maybe why Stan wound his own inductors to have control over the inductance and distributed capacitance between the coils or turns of wire.
So to figure this problem with Stan would be proficient in inductor design. Most of the time distributed (parasitic) capacitance is a downside to inductors. What is very fasinatic is that Nikola Tesla did invent coils to have an increase of parasitic capacitance thru the winding of bifilar coils or pancake coils.
In conclusion is that the distributed (parasitic) capacitance of windings or the capacitance of individual coils plays a very important part to the WFC to create high voltage. This important missing part may be what everyone has missed and need to implement. To increase the potental difference of each winding or coil to achieve higher voltages!!! I going to research more on this. hehehehe
Suggestions???
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What I am putting together is in the pictures/videos their are no individual bobbins that share a capacitance effect on each other. Like how the fig 6-1 does.
Suggestions???
the pictures hydrogenmask recently posted are for a resonant cavity..The capacitor being small in size encased in delrin to be isolated from the water bath... this allows full energy output to reflect the water and not leak (waste) any potential from the process..
The u core vic design may not seem to relate to 6-1 100 percent but i would say its similar in the idea of distributed capacitance within the charging chokes.. Instead of like 14 cavities you just have 2 big ones..
6-1 i think uses 430fr stainless for charging chokes not copper..
A noticable difference between 6-1 and the other is the wind count of secondary to choke..
6-1 seems to have more secondary winds then the charging chokes; The u core design seems to have more winds to charging chokes then secondary..
Here is another perspective.. A simple description of a inductors job for charging a capacitor.. Picture a inductor is like a automobile.. different size inductor = different size vehicle (weight).. there similarity is there resistance to the take on of momentum (Change)..
If you have a 200 hp engine in a 4 thousand pound vehicle it will have a maximum speed at which it can take on the power of the motor and transform it into acceleration. You put that same motor into a 8 thousand pound vehicle it will effect the rate at which the car accelerates.. This is what inductance can do in a circuit..
It will change the rate at which charge can enter a capacitor. this simply means that a inductor changes the rate at which a capacitor will charge and discharge. You change the rate you change the frequency of its resonant action. which is tuning into the charge and discharge characteristic of a circuit..
So we can say that any inductor can technically work with any capacitor. your pulsing sequence is what will change...
On to the next important question.
How was stan choosing the frequency at which to make the circuit resonate at???.. Was it simply the inductor design that made it work or was there something else.
I myself have a strong urge to believe there was also something else..
I feel electric has a stronger force to electrons
While sound has a stronger force to protons
is it possible to incorporate the idea of sound and electric in one process..
electrical resonance has to do with the efficiency of energy transfer for the electron
acoustical resonance has to do with the efficiency of energy transfer for the proton
We are dealing with cylinders which do have acoustical characteristic with water..
while it also has electrical characteristics..
the acoustic resonance is a set frequency based on the speed of sound in the water and the dimension of the cylinder
electrical resonance is a variable frequency based on the construction of the inductor to the determined capacitance of the set dimensions and the dielectric properties..
all in all what im saying is this would be a good experiment ...
To build a multi layer inductor to match the acoustic frequency of the cylinder..
By doing this you would think it would allow resonance of the proton by force of voltage and will also be a resonance of electrical..
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Hey everyone. I would like to start off to apologizing on the fact, this subject was already discussed by various members on ionizationx including kinesisfilms that I mention on the waterfuelcell site. Actually the most information I find thus far is in the project section. Somehow I have overlook a great deal of information. So here to conclude I need to do more in depth reading on this site.... Since I have a lot to be catching up to do for the past year... :) But it was nice I have a similar ideas I concluded that does match to other members on this forum. Just have to be more mindful on starting new threads.