A green and clean environment is a human right!
Projects by members => Projects by members => Steve => Topic started by: Steve on April 30, 2010, 22:36:49 pm
-
Hi,
Here some pics of the new 102 plates drycell.
Its build in 2 stacks and hooked up in serie.
Its possible to connect both stacks in parallel if i want to.
Every stack has his own waterinlet and gasoutlet.
All come together in a new build SS reservoir/bubler which i hope will be deliverd next week.
The part for the powersupply are already in the house...
Steve
-
Man, this was a hugh job!
But the result is most promising!
A happy Steve :D :D :D
Its totally leak free too....(of course, hehehehe)
You see the Steel endplates of 1cm thickness?
Indeed...one of them dropped on my foot vertically like an axe....
and broke my toe...
Well, keep you updated on the progress on the PS for this one.
-
Very Very nice steve!
;)
Its very nice, the design!
How many volts and amps you are going to apply?
I was guessing That if you could apply 120v at maybe 5,55 amps you would have like 555 amps that would dissociate almost 200ml of water in one hour! this would make about 400 liters of gas in one hour or 8 liters of gas per minute!
How about the gas output? you are going to keep a bubbler with the water level higher than the plates? I'm a bit confuse...
Be careful
and
Well done!
Regards
Fabio
-
Very Very nice steve!
;)
Its very nice, the design!
How many volts and amps you are going to apply?
I was guessing That if you could apply 120v at maybe 5,55 amps you would have like 555 amps that would dissociate almost 200ml of water in one hour! this would make about 400 liters of gas in one hour or 8 liters of gas per minute!
How about the gas output? you are going to keep a bubbler with the water level higher than the plates? I'm a bit confuse...
Be careful
and
Well done!
Regards
Fabio
Thanks Fabio :)
The target voltage is around 1.5V per cell till 2V.0 volt max.
Gasoutput is estimated between 15 and 20 litres a minute.
Efficiency must be around 100% Faraday.
To take away your confusion, i can inform you that on top of this wfc will come indead a special made waterreservoir with 2 waterout pipes on the right and gasinlets on the left.
On top of the reservoir will be the gasoutput.
So, waterlevel is higher then the wfc.
Regards
Steve
-
Very Nice in did. can't wait for the results my friend.
-
Hi steve
Its very nice design! So you are going to push 15 amps thru it, wow! I think that maybe you will find resonant useful to do this.
Are you going to use a pump? to force the water?
I have a good news
I learned the other day that atoms have holes that can be filled with electrons every atom have a different configuration.
Oxygen have 2 holes.
When oxygen burn together with h2 the output tend to be h2o because each H fill one of the holes.
If we could charge this oxygen negatively, we would fill this holes. If we was to burn this oxygen with the h2 than water molecule would not reform again. Meyer said that he was avoiding the water to recombine.
Regards
-
Very ambitious design. Elevated reservior should do the trick. How are you getting the power to the end plates? I didn't see any tabs
Turtle
-
Ok stevo.. You've already stomped all the records for not using additives, Now you plan to BERRY IT.
Lmao, You rock!
I just wanna see it connected to a (Real 3 phase) power source when you get done playing...
-
@Keith
The endplates have an extra extension on who i can hookup my power. Because they are on the inside, you dont see them (well)
A toptank will indead do the job .. :-)
@ Brian
Thanks dude. I must dissapoint you here. This new cell is using KOH, otherwise i never get over 100% Faraday. However, the cell can also run on tapwater only.
@Fabio
No pump is needed, because of the way its build. Also, the reservoir has lower wateroutlets then gasinputs.
The cell is designed for around max 11 amps. Its normal operation should be a on 8/9 amps. 2kW consumed power when driven on 200V by 10 Amp is the goal.
The facts on missing electrons in outer orbits of atoms was already know by me. Thats exactly the reason why i used negative charge on my airprocessor.
Just like Stan said. Try to stop the re-combining of hydrogen with oxygen. And it works, as i already told you :-)
Maybe we will get the burn, but no water. So what happen to the hydrogen atom?.....no idea, to be honest.
Steve
-
Hi steve
i was guessing that both ways could work on avoiding the reformation, but while ionizing negatively we can fill 1 or both of the electron holes doubling the number of water molecules forming OH using more oxygen than the original from electrolysis or actually even preventing the reformation in the case we fill both holes, but if we thus ionize positively what would happen is that we could open one more holes in the oxygen atoms allowing it to bound with 3 hydrogens forming H3O witch would be actually avoid the reformation of water molecules as stan described, because for every oxygen there will be 3 hydrogens!!!
This would lead us to have the following:
For every 3 mole of water reacted or 54 grams we would have 2H3O so we are losing 1 oxygen or 16 grams. Thus we would have 38 grams in the end. 70% of the original mass
The negative way lead us to have the following:
For every 3 moles of water reacted or 54 grams we would have 6OH thus having 3 more oxygens creating water ending up with 102 grams. Almost doubling the mass!!! 188% gain in mass
I'm not sure which would work the better! Or witch would gain more energy... but steve now that you have lot of gas you can perform some tests. Try to use more than one stage being one negative other positive and so one. the last one will give you the reversed polarity you want in the end if i'm not wrong. (i read about in some patents about ion generation)
I was thinking that maybe is possible to charge the all engine! to prevent the gas from discharge... .
This would explain the noize recorded in the stan demo video
Thus we can use:
Laser energy to help the atom to get exited
High voltage
Magnetism
Electromagnetism
And we have :
Movement of the air
Think about steve
Best Regards
-
Hi steve
i was guessing that both ways could work on avoiding the reformation, but while ionizing negatively we can fill 1 or both of the electron holes doubling the number of water molecules forming OH using more oxygen than the original from electrolysis or actually even preventing the reformation in the case we fill both holes, but if we thus ionize positively what would happen is that we could open one more holes in the oxygen atoms allowing it to bound with 3 hydrogens forming H3O witch would be actually avoid the reformation of water molecules as stan described, because for every oxygen there will be 3 hydrogens!!!
This would lead us to have the following:
For every 3 mole of water reacted or 54 grams we would have 2H3O so we are losing 1 oxygen or 16 grams. Thus we would have 38 grams in the end. 70% of the original mass
The negative way lead us to have the following:
For every 3 moles of water reacted or 54 grams we would have 6OH thus having 3 more oxygens creating water ending up with 102 grams. Almost doubling the mass!!! 188% gain in mass
I'm not sure which would work the better! Or witch would gain more energy... but steve now that you have lot of gas you can perform some tests. Try to use more than one stage being one negative other positive and so one. the last one will give you the reversed polarity you want in the end if i'm not wrong. (i read about in some patents about ion generation)
I was thinking that maybe is possible to charge the all engine! to prevent the gas from discharge... .
This would explain the noize recorded in the stan demo video
Thus we can use:
Laser energy to help the atom to get exited
High voltage
Magnetism
Electromagnetism
And we have :
Movement of the air
Think about steve
Best Regards
I tested with positive ionization of air and that didnt do anything.
The only thing i could try is to feed the HHO and air thru the ionizer, but my theory is that is doesnt make any sense and is dangerous.
HHO is already ionized when it leaves the wfc.
Steve
-
Hi steve
Did you tried to ionize positive or negatively only the air or exhaust that were entering the engine???
Regards
-
Hi steve
Did you tried to ionize positive or negatively only the air or exhaust that were entering the engine???
Regards
only the air.....
-
Small update:
Just finisched building my powersupply for the new drycell.
I ran a powertest and it works like it should.
Also got my waterreservoir annex bubler. This one is made of SS and has 2 wateroutlets and 2 gasinputs, conform by new drycell.
My wife complains about the fact me not being available last days.....
Well. I am at home, but most of the time in my lab..hehehehehe
Anyway, it all looks great and is almost ready for a first testrun.
Sadly for this, it has to wait for a week.....
I am out fisching for a couple of days.
The good news is that the paint can dry up nicely now....
Cu
Steve
-
Here an update on my current build.
I had made a nice SS bubler annex reservoir for the 2 sections of wfc.
Sadly this concept didnt work. Current started to leak between the 2 sections thru the waterhoses!!!!
So, i build me 2 seperate bublers.
Here are the results from my first testrun with KOH.
This is the water that is cleaning the cell, so to speak.
Hopefully i will get more KOH for a new load of water.
102 plates and 101 cells.
At 185V by 6A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 12 seconds (7.5ltr/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.8mmw (1.83V per cell)
At 191V by 10A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 7 seconds (13 litres/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.7mmw (1.89V per cell)
These are not bad numbers. When the cell get more hours on running and with new water, it hopefully will do a bit better.......Target is 100%.
My setup seems to be able to do like 15 litres HHO within reasons.
Steve
-
...These are not bad numbers. When the cell get more hours on running and with new water, it hopefully will do a bit better.......Target is 100%...
Very nice Steve!
Now use hot water and a COPPER intercooler (Nickel even better) to go over 100% ;)
-
...These are not bad numbers. When the cell get more hours on running and with new water, it hopefully will do a bit better.......Target is 100%...
Very nice Steve!
Now use hot water and a COPPER intercooler (Nickel even better) to go over 100% ;)
Logic,
Heating up water i do understand. Why that copper cooler?
Steve
-
Here an update on my current build.
I had made a nice SS bubler annex reservoir for the 2 sections of wfc.
Sadly this concept didnt work. Current started to leak between the 2 sections thru the waterhoses!!!!
So, i build me 2 seperate bublers.
Here are the results from my first testrun with KOH.
This is the water that is cleaning the cell, so to speak.
Hopefully i will get more KOH for a new load of water.
102 plates and 101 cells.
At 185V by 6A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 12 seconds (7.5ltr/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.8mmw (1.83V per cell)
At 191V by 10A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 7 seconds (13 litres/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.7mmw (1.89V per cell)
These are not bad numbers. When the cell get more hours on running and with new water, it hopefully will do a bit better.......Target is 100%.
My setup seems to be able to do like 15 litres HHO within reasons.
Steve
that's awesome. 95% efficiency surpasses any commercial electrolyzer available at the moment, yesterday i read an article where are new super catalyst was developed which would get 80% efficiency. of course it's also important how long the plates stay intact, the 95% are expensive when the plates have to be changed after a few thousand litres of hydrogen/oxygen produced.
I have re-viewed the Anton cell video again and my opinion is not anymore that the energy contained in the system is large enough to continue working for 40 seconds without external power supply.
There is a second video which shows the actual-self looping process. At the end of the video they switch the cell-supply off and with only a second or so delay, the generator stops. This means that even if the cell isn't self looped and the cell-power supply would be powered by the grid the generator would shutdown almost immediately after the cell-supply is turned off.
40 seconds without external power wouldn't be realistic in that scenario, if it wasn't really a self-looped system.
I'm looking forward to your experiments! Maybe you can try out the advice of one of the forum users, where the ice process is changed in a way that the ambient air is now the HHO gas and the petrol/diesel is a very fine mist of distilled water (very very small amount so that it won't freeze in the vacuum).
-
Here an update on my current build.
I had made a nice SS bubler annex reservoir for the 2 sections of wfc.
Sadly this concept didnt work. Current started to leak between the 2 sections thru the waterhoses!!!!
So, i build me 2 seperate bublers.
Here are the results from my first testrun with KOH.
This is the water that is cleaning the cell, so to speak.
Hopefully i will get more KOH for a new load of water.
102 plates and 101 cells.
At 185V by 6A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 12 seconds (7.5ltr/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.8mmw (1.83V per cell)
At 191V by 10A its doing a 1.5 ltr HHO per 7 seconds (13 litres/minute) = 95% Faraday = 6.7mmw (1.89V per cell)
These are not bad numbers. When the cell get more hours on running and with new water, it hopefully will do a bit better.......Target is 100%.
My setup seems to be able to do like 15 litres HHO within reasons.
Steve
that's awesome. 95% efficiency surpasses any commercial electrolyzer available at the moment, yesterday i read an article where are new super catalyst was developed which would get 80% efficiency. of course it's also important how long the plates stay intact, the 95% are expensive when the plates have to be changed after a few thousand litres of hydrogen/oxygen produced.
I have re-viewed the Anton cell video again and my opinion is not anymore that the energy contained in the system is large enough to continue working for 40 seconds without external power supply.
There is a second video which shows the actual-self looping process. At the end of the video they switch the cell-supply off and with only a second or so delay, the generator stops. This means that even if the cell isn't self looped and the cell-power supply would be powered by the grid the generator would shutdown almost immediately after the cell-supply is turned off.
40 seconds without external power wouldn't be realistic in that scenario, if it wasn't really a self-looped system.
I'm looking forward to your experiments! Maybe you can try out the advice of one of the forum users, where the ice process is changed in a way that the ambient air is now the HHO gas and the petrol/diesel is a very fine mist of distilled water (very very small amount so that it won't freeze in the vacuum).
Thanks haithar. I know this setup is pretty efficient... ;)
Its all 304, so costs are no too high.
My setup isnt using much amps either, so the plates will not be eaten up so quick.
For the Anton setup, i know some tricks they havent used, yet.
So, ill guess my setup will have a better change.
However, i dont know what to expect at the end.
Now its for me to make the ignition change on the genset.
Those big "gearwheels" are hard to get here....
Steve
-
Can you tell us for what do you need the gear wheels? May be there is an alternative
-
Logic,
Heating up water i do understand. Why that copper cooler?
Steve
Nickel, Copper and a couple of other metals (which I cant remember) actually split water into H2 and O, but at a very slow rate.
(the hotter the water the better)
Nickel does this best, but I doubt if you will find a Nickel (or internally nickel plated) heatercore radiator at your local scrap dealer! :)
At the very least using easily available copper tubing for the blumbing will slow the recombination rate of H & O and give you a tiny increase in production rate.
(Your negative ion generator would probably do a better job though by giving the O2 the electrons it craves before it swipes/shares them with the H; forming water)
If you wanted to take this to the N'th degree you could nickel plate the intake tract and combustion chamber (top of piston etc.) where the much higher temps would speed up the reaction rate.
-
Can you tell us for what do you need the gear wheels? May be there is an alternative
There are in one cycle of the engine 2 moments where the ignition sparks on such a generator.
To prevend the second spark, which is a dangerous one, i must modify the ignition system.
So, i need a gear on the engine that makes a 2:1 ratio.
The second wheel/gear must have the same size as the ignition flywheel, so to speak.
Otherwise it is very difficult to set the timing right.
Hope this make sense to you..
Steve
-
so there is an ignition flywheel which needs to be slowed down by half, right?
You want to do this via a 2:1 ratio gear-wheel system.
Is the ignition flywheel itself a gear wheel? Then you could use only one additional gear wheel, with half the size. Or you mount another gear wheel onto the flywheel and use that in combination with another to get your 2:1 ratio. then the size wouldn't matter as long as the wheels are stable enolugh and you have the right ratio.
would anything like that work?
-
The cam shaft turns at 1/2 engine speed...
-
There is only one crack on which you can mount something.
Wel, i like the 2 gear solution. But there are no gears sofar on the net that are usable. Maybe i must look for a bicycle orso....
-
I know you are looking for gears but since I really havn't seen what you are dealing with another approach that may be cheaper than gears just for a test may be using pulley's and belts.
Also I saw a video somewhere, where the guy made his gear wheel from a piece of wood.
Its possible to make from plastic.
Just suggestions if you run out of things to try.
-
There is only one crack on which you can mount something.
Wel, i like the 2 gear solution. But there are no gears sofar on the net that are usable. Maybe i must look for a bicycle orso....
If you can figure out where the camkshaft is situated from a workshop manual or somethiing; perhaps it may be simplest to machine a hole in the casing at the camshaft's end. Fit a seal and extend the camshaft.
I also dont see a normal fan-belt slipping with such a tiny load on it.
It would also give you the ability to set the timing easily.
-
how's it going with this?
The Anton cell team said while the video is only 40 seconds long they cut it. The engine ran longer than that.
Also they claimed 10 people have visited them in the last month and seen it with their own eyes.
do you make any progress?
-
I think that here is a misunderstanding with those anton boys.
I have not read anywhere that their generator was providing the power for the anton cell.
Progress: drycell is ready. Bublers are ready. Only the genset.........
Steve
-
I think that here is a misunderstanding with those anton boys.
I have not read anywhere that their generator was providing the power for the anton cell.
No no, that's exactly what they claim.
-
Haithair,
I couldnt find it anywhere....
-
http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=528.msg8601#msg8601
-
What does the Anton cell do that Steve's cell doesn't? Both really good dry cells, Is there anything to Anton's OU claim?
-
What does the Anton cell do that Steve's cell doesn't? Both really good dry cells, Is there anything to Anton's OU claim?
Good question. They should produce the same HHO gas.
My cell is more efficient,but plate spaces are the samen.
-
Either there is something special going on with the gas or it's fake.
-
Maybe they are just trying to make money selling their cells, so they fake the OU experiment to gain publicity.
-
we'll see when stevie gets his genset to run without the waste spark :)
-
we'll see when stevie gets his genset to run without the waste spark :)
Yep......
Sorry for the delay in this. I am cleaning my lab and that is a lot of work.
Tonight i will take my genset apart to find out how to make that seperate ignition with that NO waist spark issue.
Steve
-
apparently they don't like books and science very much, i'll better be quiet in the overunity forums again :D
btw there's a tutorial for converting a motor to run on hho instead of gas, probably you can understand it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHC6LTs2B10&feature=related
-
apparently they don't like books and science very much, i'll better be quiet in the overunity forums again :D
btw there's a tutorial for converting a motor to run on hho instead of gas, probably you can understand it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHC6LTs2B10&feature=related
Thanks Haithair. Nice videos of a very radical engine modification!
Steve
-
Hi Steve,
I found the pics I took when I was modding my engine to remove the waste spark.
take a look may give you some ideas..
-
Some more.
Hope this gives you some ideas...
-
Looks great! How do you advance or retard the timming?
-
Thanks Jolt!
Nice pics too.
regards
Steve
-
Yep......
Sorry for the delay in this. I am cleaning my lab and that is a lot of work.
Tonight i will take my genset apart to find out how to make that seperate ignition with that NO waist spark issue.
Steve
So you are looking to plumb into the 1/2 speed cam shaft similar to what electrojolt did?
(Very nice electrojolt! :))
-
Looks great! How do you advance or * the timing?
I never finished, still need to find a not so expensive ignition module that allow to adjust timing, so far the ones I found are too expensive.
if was now I would do it a little different, I would make the little pick up coil movable. so instead of having that hole on the engine block, I would make it a elongated hole. this way I could adjust timing mechanically.
-
Although this has to do with fuel injection it may give some ideas: http://www.rotaryeng.net/simple-cheap-555.html There's also an article if you look about compound turbocharging http://www.rotaryeng.net/turbo-compound.html for recovery of energy that is lost out of the exhaust.
Regards,
Andy
-
someone else trying to replicate: http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=627.msg10628#msg10628
-
someone else trying to replicate: http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=627.msg10628#msg10628
Thanks Haithar.
I just orderd the zahnrader from Conrad in the Netherlands... ;)
Then i can make the same gearbox as Sante did.
regards
Steve
-
sorry for the stupid question, but would you have to modify a two-stroke engine too? or only four-stroke engines?
-
You don't need to mod the spark on a 2 cycle engine. you do need to add oil for lubrication.
2 cycle engine need oil mixed in the gasoline.
-
i agree with Jolt.
You need some oildrops to save your engines life.
regards
Steve
-
Gears are in.
I went to the metalshop to extend a bolt so i am now able to mount the smal gear on it.
See picture.
regards to you all. The Netherlands won the third soccermatch :)
Steve
-
Hi folks,
Here a schematic that i will use on my genset.
All components can be bought at Farnell.com
regards
Steve
-
which material do you use between the plates as a waterproof seal?
also how do i clean the plates after having cut holes in them? i suppose soap or other cleaners aren't good when using them for electrolysis later? :/
-
which material do you use between the plates as a waterproof seal?
also how do i clean the plates after having cut holes in them? i suppose soap or other cleaners aren't good when using them for electrolysis later? :/
The most simple and cheapest gaskets that i use are made from flexible PVC.
I buy it by my local store that sells large sheets for:
Teich Pfütze Tümpel for fisches in your garden... ;)
Not sure what the right german word is.
In English it is called a pond. In my country they say: vijver
The thinkness i use now is 1mm. It is similair as the Anton guys do. But that is just coincident.
I used in the past 0.5mm, but with my current material is found out that 1mm is better.
Make your gaskets as small as possible to maximize the use of your plates.
Last tip:
All holes in your plates MUST be out of synch of eachother.
Thise prevents leakage of current and makes your cell 10% more efficient.
What most people dont know is that sanding your plates help.It makes a larger surface on micro level.
About cleaning: if you use NAOH or KOH then you can be sure that your plates will be cleaned!
Hahahahaha.
If you rinse the plates proper after sanding should be sufficient.
Try not to touch the plates after the sanding.rinsing with your fingers.
Thats all.
regards
Steve
-
which material do you use between the plates as a waterproof seal?
also how do i clean the plates after having cut holes in them? i suppose soap or other cleaners aren't good when using them for electrolysis later? :/
The most simple and cheapest gaskets that i use are made from flexible PVC.
I buy it by my local store that sells large sheets for:
Teich Pfütze Tümpel for fisches in your garden... ;)
Not sure what the right german word is.
In English it is called a pond. In my country they say: vijver
The thinkness i use now is 1mm. It is similair as the Anton guys do. But that is just coincident.
I used in the past 0.5mm, but with my current material is found out that 1mm is better.
Make your gaskets as small as possible to maximize the use of your plates.
Last tip:
All holes in your plates MUST be out of synch of eachother.
Thise prevents leakage of current and makes your cell 10% more efficient.
What most people dont know is that sanding your plates help.It makes a larger surface on micro level.
About cleaning: if you use NAOH or KOH then you can be sure that your plates will be cleaned!
Hahahahaha.
If you rinse the plates proper after sanding should be sufficient.
Try not to touch the plates after the sanding.rinsing with your fingers.
Thats all.
regards
Steve
Thank you.
"Teich" is the correct word ;)
-
Another question: how did you connect the plates?
I have 13 plates here, that'll make 12 chambers. At ~1.5V / chamber i would put ~18 Volts on the outer plates and leave the other ones in between unconnected. Will that work?
-
Another question: how did you connect the plates?
I have 13 plates here, that'll make 12 chambers. At ~1.5V / chamber i would put ~18 Volts on the outer plates and leave the other ones in between unconnected. Will that work?
You only connect 2 endplates. Rest are neutrals.
My two endplates have special "ears" on which i can mount a connector on.
I have used also weldwire welded on plates, which is working fine as well.
If you work with a gapspace of 1mm, and you use KOH or NAOH, then a voltage between 1.5V and 2.2V should be enough to get the best performance/efficiency.
We can meet on MSN or skype if you like. Then we can talk about as much as you want.
regards
Steve
-
Thanks. I read today that if one is using KoH for electrolysis the plates should not be sanded. It was reasoned that the crystalline structure of the steel surface is changed with sanding and with use of KoH the plates would get rust relatively quick.
Were some of your cell-plates rusting?
-
Thanks. I read today that if one is using KoH for electrolysis the plates should not be sanded. It was reasoned that the crystalline structure of the steel surface is changed with sanding and with use of KoH the plates would get rust relatively quick.
Were some of your cell-plates rusting?
Thats the first time i heard about that fact on sanding plates. To answer your question, i havent got rust. The main issues with SS and KOH/NAOH is that if you use lots of amps that the plates will be eaten disintegrate.
In my 102 platecell, my amps will not be higher then 11 amps. No rust either.
regards
Steve
-
OMG.....
Leaking current all over the place....
I must make a redesign of my waterreservoir/bubler and seperate them totally.
With high voltages like 200V, electrons leak thru the watertube, reservoir/bubler and gasoutlet tube, in stead of thru the plates.........
arggggggg
-
why don't you insert a valve for the reservoir supply line and close it when using the cell? Ocassionally you have to open it to let new water flow in, but the closed valve will not let current through the whole bubbler.
-
why don't you insert a valve for the reservoir supply line and close it when using the cell? Ocassionally you have to open it to let new water flow in, but the closed valve will not let current through the whole bubbler.
Thanks for thinking along, Haithar :)
I just solved it with a new construction and materials..Later i show it all by picture of video.
Steve
-
So, the new setup is current leakage free.
After 15 minutes, the cell beated the law of electrolysis of mr. Faraday.
I did a 103%!!!!!!!
1,5 litres of HHO every 12 seconds with use of 172V and 6 amps equals 3 % more then Mr. Faraday said could be done. :D :D :D :D
102 plates = 101 cells
172V/101=1,7V per cell.
I feel like a million dollars right now. 8) 8) 8)
Steve
-
Yes!!!!! ;D
Congratulations...
-
congrats Steve!
-
So, the new setup is current leakage free.
After 15 minutes, the cell beated the law of electrolysis of mr. Faraday.
I did a 103%!!!!!!!
1,5 litres of HHO every 12 seconds with use of 172V and 6 amps equals 3 % more then Mr. Faraday said could be done. :D :D :D :D
102 plates = 101 cells
172V/101=1,7V per cell.
I feel like a million dollars right now. 8) 8) 8)
Steve
good job :) i calculated 109%! i'm looking forward to your generator results
-
So, the new setup is current leakage free.
After 15 minutes, the cell beated the law of electrolysis of mr. Faraday.
I did a 103%!!!!!!!
1,5 litres of HHO every 12 seconds with use of 172V and 6 amps equals 3 % more then Mr. Faraday said could be done. :D :D :D :D
102 plates = 101 cells
172V/101=1,7V per cell.
I feel like a million dollars right now. 8) 8) 8)
Steve
good job :) i calculated 109%! i'm looking forward to your generator results
Thanks guy's!
I like your calculation better, Haithar ;)
Steve
-
too bad the ice-generator is only 30% efficient or worse
what Steve needs is a way to convert hydrogen to electricity 100% efficiently
steam turbines can be around 97% efficient...
-
Hello Steve
You should consider the temperature of the gas because of the law of ideal gases witch states that if you raise the temperature of a gas it will expand proportionally if the container allow it to expand otherwise it will develop pressure.
+-55Amps at 1,24 v should give you something like 33liters of gas
Another thing you should consider is the temperature that faraday had. If i'm not wrong it was 0°. So you can conclude that probably you have there around 72% efficiency.
A good way for you to clearly see the efficiency is to check the voltage between each cell.
You said around 1.7 volts so:
1/ (1,7 / 1,24) = 72%
If you have 6 amps and 101 cells you have equivalently 606 amps at 1,7 amps so this could give you around 365 liters of gas h2+02 in one hour or about 6 liters per minute... Anyway you need more than 1kw to run this beast!
Try using freezing water to check the liters per minute this way you will be closer to the reality...
Don't forget If you get over 300% efficiency with all this calculations than make a big party =)
Best Regards
Fabio
-
Faradays does only say something about the amount of substance created by a specific charge, the efficiency calculated by faradays law has nothing do to with voltage.
A month ago i was programming a software which would compute the efficiency of a HHO cell when fed with voltage, current and gas output but i realized that this values are absolutely worthless. the voltage needed for electrolysis is 1.23V + an additional voltage, which varies with material, temperature, current density on the electrodes, water type, ...
1.7V could be the minimum needed voltage, who knows..
The only hard fact one can get is the charge in vs. the gas out.
-
Also how much electrolyte is in your cell? I have ~3% and i get 2A at 1.7V per single cell. It doesn't get warm under 1.85V / cell which is good, but i have to optimize far more to get my desired 150W/l/min
-
Hi Haithar
Voltage * Amperage = Power
Faraday stated that using platinum electrodes you need 1,23v to allow electrolytic conduction in the water, this mean that under this max voltage water independently of witch electrolyte or the amount of it dissolved, will behave as a dielectric. Because there is not enough energy to open the holes of conduction. Just like a transistor.
From the theory than we knew that this amount of energy transformed into h2 in this "100"% efficient electrolysis would be the same that you need to put in it to realize this work.
Now i want you all to think!
How can we create a water transistor ( a way to lower the energy required to conduct the current? )
Do you see that voltage is directly and proportionally bounded to the idea of efficiency?
-
Faraday stated that using platinum electrodes you need 1,23v to allow electrolytic conduction in the water, this mean that under this max voltage water independently of witch electrolyte or the amount of it dissolved, will behave as a dielectric. Because there is not enough energy to open the holes of conduction. Just like a transistor.
You are forgetting the overpotentials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpotential) needed in addition to the 1.23V. It's right that 1.23V is the theoretical minimal voltage needed to electrolyse water and the overpotential of platinum on the hydrogen side is only -0.07V so electrolysis is possible at low voltage. However efficiency in terms of electrical input vs. energy content of created gas can only be measured when knowing the exact overpotential at the current temperature, material, current density,.. 1.23V cannot used as the 100% efficiency value in a real setup.
-
Hello,
i previously wrote a lot and have lost everything =(... here i go again
I did an experiment witch i posted on my thread about resonant electrolysis... in witch i had a resonant tank at 27khz 20amps and 700 volts i was inputing about 80watts and i had between the electrodes that were made from ( 2 tubes steel and 2 internal bolts stainless steel ) 1,44 volts. Note i had 20 amps flowing at 1,44 volts or 28watts were going on electrolysis and it were going at 85% efficiency = 1/(1,44/1,23) (excluding the losses on the tank and input circuit witch at the time was not the ideal) so about 9ml of water was being converted into h2 in one hour
I had many losses on the capacitors of the tank, the inductor, the rectifier stage, the mosfet because they were not designed for this. Some capacitors blowed from the heat, i used 20 x 1n4007 diodes in parallel...
I was getting that much amperage because the current was passing thru the water only because of the inertia and not because of the over potential, current was 180° from voltage so there was virtually no voltage across the electrodes the only voltage was due to the potential required to open the holes of conduction.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpotential
Check this
Activation overpotential
The potential difference above the equilibrium value required to produce a current which depends on the [/color]activation energy of the redox event. While ambiguous "activation overpotential" often refers exclusively to the activation energy necessary to transfer an electron from an electrode to an analyte. This sort of overpotential can also be called "electron transfer overpotential" and is a component of "polarization overpotential", a phenomenon observed in cyclic voltammetryand partially described by the Cottrell equation.Reaction overpotentialReaction overpotential is an activation overpotential that specifically relates to [/color]chemical reactions that must formally precede electron transfer. The reaction overpotential can be reduced or eliminated with the use of homogeneous or heterogeneous electrocatalysts. The electrochemical reaction rate and related current density is dictated by the kinetics of the electrocatalyst and substrate concentration.
The platinum electrode common to much of electrochemistry is also electrocatalytically non-innocent for many reactions. For example, hydrogen is oxidized and protons are reduced readily at the platinum surface of a standard hydrogen electrode in aqueous solution. If electrocatalytically inert glassy carbon electrode is substituted for the platinum electrode, then the result is irreversible reduction and oxidation peaks with large overpotentials.[/size][/b][/color][/size][/font]
-
Thus of course 1,23v can be used as 100% efficiency voltage, however you need Platinum electrodes and there will be some losses on the input circuit depends on the design. It can be made to have almost 99% efficiency if you want but is costy...
-
Hello,
i previously wrote a lot and have lost everything =(... here i go again
I did an experiment witch i posted on my thread about resonant electrolysis... in witch i had a resonant tank at 27khz 20amps and 700 volts i was inputing about 80watts and i had between the electrodes that were made from ( 2 tubes steel and 2 internal bolts stainless steel ) 1,44 volts. Note i had 20 amps flowing at 1,44 volts or 28watts were going on electrolysis and it were going at 85% efficiency = 1/(1,44/1,23) (excluding the losses on the tank and input circuit witch at the time was not the ideal)
I was getting that much amperage because the current was passing thru the water because of the inertia and not because of the over potential, current were almost 180° so there was virtually no voltage across the electrodes the only voltage was due to the potential required to open the holes of conduction.
that's nice and i'd like to hear more of it, but it's quite off-topic. in dry cells like steve and mine we are dealing with ordinary direct current at the lowest possible voltage to amps ratio.
probably steve can move this to a new thread.
I agree with you that when using platinum electrodes 1.23V is the minimum voltage. however we are using stainless steel ???
-
If you use steel the voltage maybe is smaller, however i'm not sure it both electrode must be steel... using NaOH the steel didn't corroded too much... however there was always some iron powder on the bottom of the tubes...
=) Hope i helped somehow
I still believe that we should understand how to construct a mosfet made of water.
Best regards
-
Steve, way to go with the efficiency you noted.
I have a feeling its even higher, the reason being how did you make the measurement (LPM)?
Guessing you have used water displacement method for the LPM measurement.
From tests done by another reliable source it shows that easily 35% to 50% more output with a mass flow measurement device like Coriolis.
Water displacement although good, you must overcome some grams of force up to many grams of opposing forces to make the displacement measurement.
For that reason if water displacement method was used your numbers are actually higher.
Anyways again real nice to hear good results.
-
Steve, way to go with the efficiency you noted.
I have a feeling its even higher, the reason being how did you make the measurement (LPM)?
Guessing you have used water displacement method for the LPM measurement.
From tests done by another reliable source it shows that easily 35% to 50% more output with a mass flow measurement device like Coriolis.
Water displacement although good, you must overcome some grams of force up to many grams of opposing forces to make the displacement measurement.
For that reason if water displacement method was used your numbers are actually higher.
Anyways again real nice to hear good results.
Hi Komtek,
I measured indead with the magic 1.5 litre bottle and a bucket of water.
Its sounds nice when you say that the reality might be even better :)
What Sebos is telling about using 273 degree kelvin is i think also right.
But his calculation is not. The difference between 273 and 293K makes on the totall calc a change of max 7%.
So, accoording to Haithar i do here a 109% minus 7 % = still 2 % better......
I dont have time to show the totall calc but maybe later i will publish that one.
But at this moment i do measure like the whole HHO community does and compared to them and compared to what the Anton group does, i do good here.
Steve
-
congrats steve! im glad to see some awesome results! lets keep em coming :) the day of true sovereignty is coming !!
-
Great job, Steve. Now, like everyone, I am waiting to see-hear results with the Generator.
-
Nice work, Steve! Faraday never even had a chance ;)
-
Also how much electrolyte is in your cell? I have ~3% and i get 2A at 1.7V per single cell. It doesn't get warm under 1.85V / cell which is good, but i have to optimize far more to get my desired 150W/l/min
i bump my question. :)