A green and clean environment is a human right!
Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on April 04, 2010, 22:53:24 pm
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Well,
Hello People from earth!
We want to provide a technology witch will change the way you live!
We want to provide free energy, food, and medical support.
We are the Future, we are the peace, Aways!
I discovered how to run a car on water using Stanley Allen Meyer water injector principle and i would like to leave here the info about it and to find people interested in support me with money to construct the device and any technical help that we may need for completing the replication of the injectors.
All his work is based on Magneto hydro dynamics (MHD) and Electro hydro dynamics (EHD).
He created a high pressure cheaply inside his water tank and made the water to move at high speed crossing an electric field generating this way a high amperage.
He divided the generation of electrical energy needed to split the water in two parts. 1° the creation of high voltage field aways rising at low amps and 2° the creation of high amperage due to the high speed of flow of water in relation to his electrodes. The high amperage is what allows the electric field generator or (vic) to actually develop the high voltage!
I would like to receive donations on this https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=ERQSHHBGWC5P2&lc=GB&item_name=Bring%20power%20to%20the%20people¤cy_code=EUR&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donateCC_LG_global%2egif%3aNonHosted link , you just need to create a free account and choose how much you want to donate than you can easily send the donation using your credit cards.
We need lots of money aways but for now if we could put at least 20 thousand euros together for start constructing demonstration devices would be great! Actually for start changing people life we are going to need lot more money!
You may also want to check this link: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5573-we-peace-gift-humanity-stanley-meyer-water-injector-solved.html
(http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/5259d1270417685-we-peace-gift-humanity-stanley-meyer-water-injector-solved-figure-4.1-water-fuel-injection-system.jpg)
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I wish you luck on your research, but your theory is not in line with the documentation we have from Stan. You shouldn't be asking people for donations, you have not shown any demonstration.
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I agree with you Donald. Sebosfato and his ilk has just told us they are not one of us. They are from another planet or dimension take your pick. What use have they of our hard earned money? Maybe for cash to build the device to take them "home" never to be heard from again. I suggest "they" get a job.
Regards,
Andy
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Thank you donald, i'm missing only few points that will be cleared soon. I'm asking for donations because i'm doing a great work and need some help and what i'm doing is of the interest of all human beings.
handy
I suggest you to be more open minded! And less ironic and thankless... Do you know how a generator works?
my job is to save you life!
I apologize you don't worry!
Regards
Fabio
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Here it goes!
When you have electric fields in a capacitor where the dielectrics is a liquid and this liquid moves in a certain direction in relation to the electric fields a very high current will be generated!
This is the principle of energy generation.
When a conductor cross a magnetic field a current is induced in this conductor.
What happens is that electric fields, magnetic fields and gravity are basically the same thing. One creates the other and recreates the other and so on!
If you create a voltage field you induce a current witch causes a magnetic field. If you move a the conductor in relation to the magnetic field created you will consequently amplify the original current raising thus the voltage. and so on.
(http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/5261d1270421033-we-peace-gift-humanity-stanley-meyer-water-injector-solved-tube-.jpg)
Hello you all i'm coming up right now with info that anyone though before!
I solved the injector!
What happens when a conductor moves cutting a magnetic field?
A voltage is developed! in a direction 90° from the magnetic field lines and 90° from the movement!
What happen when we have water under a very high pressure and make it to pass thru a 0,40 mm diameter hole?
It will pass thru it at a very high speed!
water is not conductive thus ( the ionized gases were needed in the injector to create the conduction )
Lets say you have a 0,40 mm hole 6cm long (it will have a volume = to 7,5 ul ( the amount stan said was injecting for each injection cycle in each cylinder) accordingly to the volume of a cylinder calculation =((diameter/2)^2)*High)
Now you need to inject it in only 2ms what will be the speed of the water?
answer (6cm/0,002)*(7,5-7,4) ((volume of the tube - the amount of water to be injected) (this result is = to how many times the tube will fill per injection) well the result is almost 3000cm/sec
Now if you cut a magnetic flux of 15.000 gauss with water at this speed you will develop 1,7volts witch together with the ionized gas and a catalyzer element and resonance will actually crack the water!!!
Enjoy Freedom!
Now you just need to develop a certain pressure inside the tank, (only about 4 liters of water will be consumed in one hour thus even very high pressure will cost very low energy) and solenoids to do all the work...
What about this?
after 2010 years we can again walk on water...haha
Best Regards to you all
Donations are welcome! you find link on my you tube channel
Did you know that 7,4 ul of water = 13ml of gas h2+02 witch represents 3,33% of the 400cc cylinders meyer were using.
Yes he used positively ionized ambient gas...
He created the injectors to simplify and lower the costs
I believe the way to create this magnetic field will be with a coil around. Once i saw a meyers drawing of the injector with the coild around it. Only once.
His drawings of the electrodes aways remind me permanent magnets, Aways orientation check it. Yesterday i was thinking about pressure and flow and big bang! I first tried some numbers, and guess what? i took a look on the canadian injector patent and the size of the holes proposed by him were the same i was guessing, He mentioned in the patent 125 psi pump. It were well protected... Now is free! Fortunately
The electron gun had coils that reason too.
His work is based on MHD EHD magneto and electro hydro dynamics domain of plasma physics. Look for it on the mit site. Is the basics of the basics of power generation!!!!!!!! Is just like a generator works! Free Online MIT Course Materials | Physics | MIT OpenCourseWare
Even the resonant cavity and tube cell worked with this principle.
For the pressure i believe meyer used the Famous steam resonator to create, or a water pump. The volume of water to displace is very small. Look his drawings (compressor pump)
I didn't ran a car on water yet =( but soon is exactly what i want to do! i'm just short of money now and to design it well and make the pieces will cost a bit. But won't be too expensive for scale production hopefully!
Well good news!
Thank you all for being part of it!
Hope to finish this soon!
The ionizer works much the same way. EHD
If any of you want to help... help me to find out how much pressure you need to develop in a tank to make 3,7ml of water to pass thru a hole of 0,4mm of diameter every second. Would be great if any of you have the formula and know how to explain it for us! Thanks
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Why i calculated an injection timing of only 2ms:
I calculated like this because:
At 7000 rpm you have in a four cycle engine 3500 injections per injector. ( Rpm / 2 rotations per complete 4 cycles )
This gives us 58,3333 injections per second (Injections per minute / 60 seconds)
Than this mean that every 0,01714286 seconds you have a new injection ( 1 second / 58,33 injections per second)
I than divided this by 4 because there is 4 cycles and that gave me 0,004285717 seconds or 4,2 ms to complete each cycle
Considered than that in the injection cycle you will inject only during half of the movement when the piston is coming down so i divided it again by 2 so 2 ms
Than i calculated 1 second / 0,002 = 500 than i multiplied this for 7,4 ul and i got the result that if the solenoid remain open for 1 second 3,7ml of water would flow.
I did this to simplify the question:
How much pressure must a bomb develop or must be developed inside a water tank to make 3,7ml of water to pass thru a hole of 0,4mm diameter every second.
This will tell us the pressure we need to keep inside the tank or the pump pressure we are going to need for we can get the injector to work.
The speed the water will reach is easier to calculate:
The hole having 0,4mm of diameter and for say 6 cm of length give us a volume = to 0,0075396ml so if we are going to fill it with 7,4ul of water in a cycle of 0,002 seconds this mean it will fill 0nly 98% for each cycle. but this means that water will need to run over 6cm in only 0,002 seconds. than is easy I got 6/0,002*0,98 and that gave me the resultant water speed 2944 cm per second. This is only the start!
The formula was actually water speed = length in cm divided by injection time in seconds*(volume of water to be injected - volume of the hole (tube...))
The volume of a cylinder in ml is = 3,14*((Diameter in mm/2/10)^2)*length in cm
Hope now is cleaner =)
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Way to go, Sebos! Dont stop your brain!
Steve
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sebosfato
The people on this forum have often supported each other by providing products and services that help with the research and development. To name a few, Dankie's wire, Jolt's PWM, John's VIC coil, Dynodon's Wire and SS core material.
All of these people put hard work into their projects and explained them clearly with pictures and/or videos, and they got people interested.
However you are not providing a product or service, you are just asking for money for no good reason, you haven't shown your work in progress, only theories that go against the documentation.
Lots of people might be willing to invest in this technology, buy if you want an investment you are going about it all wrong, you need to have a plan, and a defined project, and a clearly laid out pitch to the proper audience.
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Thank you steve!
Voltage is considered like a pressure in the normal way of thinking, i actually think about it like a vacuum but this is just a detail... Pressure in this circuit i described will be what drive the system and will not be consumed that much, if you think about lets say we need 10 bars and we have 1 liter of free space inside our tank, if you boil 6ml of water you should build up this pressure. How much energy you would need to boil this amount of water? VERY SMAL ENERGY!!!What about using the radiator of the car to do this( just an idea... )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie
1 cal = 4,1868 J ( 1 cal is the amount of energy you need to raise 1°C the temperature of 1 gram of water)
we need 6ml thus that were previously at 20°C so we need to raise 80°C. So 80°*6g*4,1868j = 2009J witch = 0,558 watts hour + the heat of vaporization witch is 2261 Joules per gram = 2009+13566= 15575J witch in watts = 4.32 watts hour. Than if you want to boil this in only 30 seconds for starting the engine fast. Lets multiply this by 60 minutes and again * 2 because there are 2 * 30 seconds in 1 minute. So = 518 watts applied for 30 seconds. 13,5v * 38,5 amps for 30 seconds.
http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-watt-hours-conversion.html?joule%3Bfocus%3D1%3Bbase%3D1=2009&watt-hour=
Now i tell you something, once i did a test in witch i connected 200v from the wall into a 35 amps bridge rectifier than connected to 2 ss plates of 20cm x10cm separated by 5 cm thus using only 600watts or 3 amps 4 liters of tap water boiled in 1 hour. Amps were limited by the heated water and the bubbles i think. What i'm saying is maybe, maybe is a good way to create the pressure inside the tank. What do you think about it? There would be an small amount of h2 and 02 together but maybe would not explode...
Can any of you Help repeating this boiling test to check and confirm my result? (i don't have that equipment here anymore)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_energy_is_needed_to_boil_water
Regards
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Sebosfato,
If I appear to be thankless to you perhaps it's because I don't fall for your pitch for donations that I see in so many places. It must be working as you continue to invest time in your endeavor and as Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute". I choose not to donate. The videos I've seen of yours are unimpressive. Yes I know how electric motors and generators work. What of it and what does it have to do with this thread?
As an American I support your right to free speech and am as well exercising my freedom of expression. Perhaps you are the one who is thankless. I fail to see how or why you are entitled to anyone's hard earned money. Until you have a working prototype or proof of concept this thread is a work of fiction. If you feel you have a working hypothesis (educated guess) then it is worthy of the experimental method and a conclusion true or false. So get on with it or more likely come up with another working hypothesis and ask for more donations. I am seeing a pattern...
Regards,
Andy
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Hi Donald,
I provided an explanation for the current restricting Meyer told us about, i provided a testing setup witch teached us all how resonance and recirculating currents really works and how to do the electrolysis at the lowest possible voltage, I provided an automatic calculation for air inductor, for the resonance itself with all calculations needed, i also provided a PLL design to drive the system at the exact resonant frequency. And a video on youtube witch talk about the principle.
Now I came up with the solution for the injector system witch is very much more economic viable and lighter than the theory i had before. So as its already in the public domain because myers patent and others are older than 20 years i decided to release all his info here because i was having problems releasing my own patented technology, the army didn't allowed us if we release it we go to the jail. So here it is the info about meyer tech, how it worked and soon more instructions on how to produce it. Thats all i have and i believe is huge!
If you didn't understood yet the technology please take the time to read it all again. Its very clear. Sorry if maybe my english is not perfect, i learned it alone.
I'm not going against the documents meyer provided, He told us he were using compressing pumps, he even told us the size of the holes that he was using. Even the amount of water per injection. It were very clear that you just need to know the speed water will take ... Please read it all again i'm sure you will understand and i'm sure you will want help us with answers for some technical questions like the pressure one and maybe even more if you want...
I'm not wanting to mass product it myself anymore i just want to finish the project for now and provide the answer for the humanity! I'm tired of investors they just want to make you feel bad and want to be aways richer they don't care about the earth and less yet about who you are and what you believe...
Hi Andy,
If you know how a generator works you may read again and think well, because the principle is quite the same. (conductor crossing an magnetic field)
For your info since i asked for donations for the 1° time i got only 250 euros witch became test setups and knowledge. I also had to work for live but i already invested about 20 thousand euros in time, rent, equipments and test setups in the last 4 years dedicated only to this. Donations would help a lot because recently i'm not working but i have people around me helping me, so my time is free now and still working and studying 24h on this.
Best Regards
Fabio
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Andy,
As a moderator i could just simply ignore and delete anything i consider offensive however i won't do this just to prove i'm telling you the true...
So here a contest If you understand this principle, i ask you to delete you last two posts, what do you think about?
Regards ;)
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I've read over your theories regarding the Water Fuel Cell technology and you are not correct. I have spend countless hours reviewing all the videos, patents, pictures, and details from Stan's work and you simply are not on track.
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I suggest for you to read this thread again once more and again than so you have a chance to understand. I clearly explained here how the injectors work. I showed the calculation of the water speed and how much voltage will be generated because of its speed crossing magnetic fields induced by voltage fields. Open your mind. I'm talking about physics not what meyer talked to confuse us.
I also spent countless hours reading and watching all about Stan. He wouldn't explain this EHD thing because is the secret of his patents! You can learn about this only if you are studying to be doctor in physics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_physics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrophoresis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrokinetic_phenomena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_potential
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrospray
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydrodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure
The voltage alone wont do any work. Voltage together with movement can do work.
Example:
You have a parallel plate air capacitor charged with 100volts and than disconnected from the power supply.
What happen when you pull the plates apart?
Wouldn't the voltage raise while the charge remains the same?
Why the voltage raised?
because you did work separating the plates!
This is the principle of the Wimshurst generator.
If the power supply were still connected when you separate the plates the voltage would remain the same and the charge would reduce.
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Sebosfato,
You consider my posts offensive? Sorry didn't know you were so sensitive. Any PhD candidate would go through the same process of critical analysis that this thread is going through before achieving the degree. I will not delete my posts. That fact that you brought it up does not indicate you to be a free thinker. It suggests something else. Since you haven't even begun to build the prototype you haven't considered factors of erosion on your 0.4 mm nozzle or what might happen if it were clogged. Belief without evidence is faith not science.
Regards,
Andy
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You can delete or not it's not my problem, its just worst for those who will read your comments witch are not related with the technology.
If proper filtering is provided i believe it wont get clogged, of course i'm still working on the design and the durability of the hole is not yet possible to predict even if thinking about it should last for a very long time for how i imagine it about 1/2 cm long. But is very clear to me and others that meyer did this way and that is one of the only ways to do it in a manner witch is economically viable, of easy installation and light weight. However if you are a bit jealous for not being the one who discovered the process, you can be part of this discover by helping to find out the pressure we need to maintain on the tank for it to work... be part of the team so you and human race will only benefit from this kind of behavior (partnership). I don't want to be proud to have get there alone. I don't really care about this, i just want to see water cars and airplanes buses and camions running in the streets.
I'm not here to prove i'm a free thinker i just believe to be a thinker that have many solutions for todays problems.
Do you remember dynodon's video where he show the injector?
Meyer did so
Yes we Can!
Evidences are the hundreds of patents claiming free energy devices, Stan's videos, coincidences that happened with me along my way. Than physics books, and logic... Read it again and you will see the logic!
Pressure (potential energy) can do work.
I'm also studying about diamagnetic materials witch converts magnetic fields because maybe they are needed inside the injector... many things to consider...
Regards
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I will not delete as I have said before my posts are for the benefit of others who have a choice to donate or not. I'm glad I was helpful in your thinking thru what you propose (as that is all it is at this point) and I am not jealous because it was first proposed by Stan Meyer not you or I. There is already someone who claims to have a working water fuel injector system running and is currently in the process of marketing and I wish him well. It should hit the news shortly. I respectfully decline your invitation to join your team thanks anyway. And I've already seen a water car in action. Daniel Dingel is alive and well and free and working still as of this past January contrary to reports by the media. But don't take my word for it find out for yourself.
Regards,
Andy
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Someone? there is aways someone... do you know who? where youtube?
about dingel, how did you know?
Which car did you saw?
Did them explained you the principle? if so, why didn't you told us how it work?
Andy i think you can't help us and don't want to join this team because you don't know how to calculate the pressure and or have any skills to contribute to help in anyway, however derailing this thread making people don't believe in me will not make you fell better and wont help this world for sure. So Please if you don't want to contribute positively don't contribute to just confuse interested people. I don't think anyone can be proud of this...
Best Regards
Fabio
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It is someone on this group if he chooses to identify and share that's his choice. I believe Dingel's red car is a toyota it's featured in his videos. I don't pretend to understand how his car runs on water as much as tried to figure it out in the 2 hours that I was there. He was not willing to divulge his secret to me and that was his choice. I was just grateful to be there and see with my own eyes. I had posted photos on another site anonymously. The rest is speculation. If I told you he bases his principle on vacuum it would distract you from what you propose here. He has what he calls a converter and it's just a black box so what's inside is anyone's guess. The fact is he has something going and you and your crew do not.
What do you need me for to calculate the pressure for? If you can't find the math or someone to hand it to you figure it out empirically. Start with 20 lbs and work your way up. You need someone to hold your hand? Oh yeah you haven't built anything yet never mind...
Regards,
Andy
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hi sebos,
i have been reading your posts here and on energetic forum.
Strange that you dont mention my name or this forum name as inspiration...... ???
steve
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sorry steve
Steve you are the guy!
i'm doing things very quickly because i have only telephone internet very slow and expensive here, i will mention ionizationx and your efforts on the energetic forum too for sure. I didn't yet because i forgot and i was concentrated here. You helped me a lot and i will not forget this, not only for donating but also by the creation of this site where we can meet people who cares about change something and witch makes us keep going. I thank you a lot for the space you provide for me here and for you have helped and believe me and everything else only you know. Sorry again if i didn't mentioned yet.
Your effort like i told you in skype is a inspiration for everyone here.
Now I'm trying to find the calculation for the pressure but is being very very hard with no fast internet here as it takes 5 minutes to open a single page...
however this week i will talk to some engineers friends here that will help to design and construct the injectors.
Andy,
I didn't visited mr dingel but i believe his work is based on the same principle, he uses platinum honey comb like electrodes witch are commonly used for electroplating platinum and palladium. where can we find info about him? I'm aways interested. This acts as catalysts that lower the minimum voltage needed for electrolysis by desorption processes. He have the h2 separated from o2 right. Yes he would not tell the secret to anyone. I met another inventor that only showed me the process because i went to visit him and i told him almost how was his thing working thus he was so amazed that could trust me and explained all to me and we made a team together. Anyway the army here prohibited us of publishing, go out of the country... so i decided to think about the myer injector and as it works with similar principle but not the same we just need to figure out few more things.
Best Regards
fabio
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Dingel may have used honeycomb electrodes in the past but not anymore. He uses dual tubular construction like Wouter's waterfuelforall electrolyser or a joe cell. He appears to use high voltage but doesn't suffer from heat problems. I can only guess from what I saw and what he told me what was going on. His friend hinted that he may be using titanium electrodes but Daniel wouldn't say either way. His electrodes are connected in parallel in his tabletop demonstration with tap water. Just a battery no fancy circuit. He drank the water after the demonstration. His source for materials is junkyards so I doubt any exotic metals are involved. If it is titanium plates or tubes it's from aircraft engine turbines that were junked. It looked like stainless steel to me. He used plates in his tabletop demonstration. Joe cell type tubes are in his car device. I did not get a demonstration how his device makes electricity. He had quite a few projects going on at the same time some sponsored some pure research. He seemed fascinated by solenoid coils. He appeared to me to be a good honest person. He was also hiding some personal pain I don't know what. I guess when you're in your 80s things are different from when you're 40ish. Btw I wasn't asked for a donation by Daniel Dingel or his associates. In fact I received a gift but it didn't make it thru airport security. They did seem open to business opportunities but it seems there's some bad experiences in that department. Nothing abnormal about that. I hope this inspires others that anything is possible even the unheard of thought of running a car on water. So Sebosfato talk is cheap get to it already. I think my point is made.
Regards,
Andy
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Well its interesting, i'm very impressed,
anyway 1 of my projects just for building costs only for the materials 15 thousand. The one was blocked! The most expensive parts were the rectifiers because to run a car we needed to rectify 10 thousand ampers.
From that you can see special materials are actually needed in that process. Maybe he found another way. who knows.
The one i proposed for the injectors the higher cost will be to make the injectors, i would like to make a pair to test and than if needed re do it again, but before spending money i will together with engineers and physicist here do all the calculation possible to be able to design a first injector that works and proves the principle and gives us the parameters to change if needed. Also here i'm trying to find junkyard materials to save some money but is not that easy, fortunately many of the brains will do the math and project for free because they believed me so we need to spend the money only to make the injector in specialized technician the problem is that nobody here have money only good intent.
We are considering in use bismuth as diamagnetic material, SS, platinum, palladium. And to find a way as to do it without the high cost rectifiers.
The injector will be less expensive if mass produced because will need less material and will be easier to instal. You will only need to replace the tank for the pressure tank, tubing, fit the circuitry for maintaining the pressure, ionizer, solenoids and change the spark plugs. The signal to drive them will be adapted from the normal injection system of new automobiles. There will be maybe also the need to make a hole on the exhaust to direct it to the intake or injectors like stan proposed.
I'm serious!
Best Regards
fabio
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Here it goes!
When you have electric fields in a capacitor where the dielectrics is a liquid and this liquid moves in a certain direction in relation to the electric fields a very high current will be generated!
This is the principle of energy generation.
When a conductor cross a magnetic field a current is induced in this conductor.
What happens is that electric fields, magnetic fields and gravity are basically the same thing. One creates the other and recreates the other and so on!
If you create a voltage field you induce a current witch causes a magnetic field. If you move a the conductor in relation to the magnetic field created you will consequently amplify the original current raising thus the voltage. and so on.
HI sebos
When a conductor cross a magnetic field ( NO ELECTRIC FIELD !!! )a current is induced in this conductor.
siwa
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Hi siwa EHD electric field induce current and the flow of a current creates a magnetic field just as i described on the second picture that you can see in the first page, meyer new this and thats why he used long tubes 304 material witch would not rob the magnetic field created inside his tubes, than the flow of the bubbles induced because o their less density in relation to the water, accelerated the water amplifying the current and so amplifying the generation of hydrogen. This current i think that is not possible to measure, because should start and finish between the electrodes.
Siwa There is MHD and EHD, a magnetic field created by EHD as i showed in that drawing is quite impossible to create with magnets, i'm studying about diamagnetic materials such as bismuth because the have the ability of change the magnetic field direction, however i'm seeing that only EHD can create such complex magnetic field in a cylinder. MHD can be used very well with permanent magnets and flat plates and also in a cylinder but the inner electrode should split the cavity into two cavities to be able to use this effect. You must make drawings and use the right hand rule to understand well the possibilities.
As the example of the capacitor i gave:
Example:
You have a parallel plate air capacitor charged with 100volts and than disconnected from the power supply.
What happen when you pull the plates apart?
Wouldn't the voltage raise while the charge remains the same?
Why the voltage raised? Why the gain in energy?
Because you did realized a work separating the plates!
This is the principle of the Wimshurst generator.
If the power supply were still connected when you separate the plates the voltage would remain the same and the charge would reduce.
Thats why he used the vic, a charging pump witch by the effect of the blocking or switching diode will pump electrons or raise the electric field only when the electric field being applied is grater than the electric field already existing there.
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1354.0;attach=5625;image)
Regards
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Sebosfato,
What is the source of your information on the plate capacitor personal experimentation or a paper in the literature? Are the plates being used in conjunction with a coil?
My best guess is it might be due to change in dielectric capacity and not due to any work involved by you. If there is a coil in the circuit then there is a detection of the resonant frequency in the system and that would account for the change in voltage levels. Described by Tesla in papers and patents on high frequency and potential.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
That example i took from a physics paper from mit, you can download the course material here:
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02TSpring-2005/DownloadthisCourse/index.htm
The example is in the pdf attached
The example is for a parallel plate capacitor charged and than disconnected from the source. To separate the plates you need to do work as the mit book says the plate charge wont change but as you did work separating them something need to happen so the voltage increase. Voltage is proportional to the separation of the charges.
Regards
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The charge I believe is in the dielectric not in the plates but I'll look the courseware over
Andy
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I would like to show you and make you think about some meyer's pictures:
From the first figure 3.24 and note that the central electrode is at the top and that positive is in the bottom.
(Right hand rule say that when a current flow thru a conductor a magnetic field is created 90° from the current direction.)
observe the direction of the flow of the water.
Note now the 144n and the second picture, where he mention the action of the water pump...
Now note the 4.11 figure that the negative side of the injector is the contact with the engine, note also where is the input of water!
Now note the figure 4.5 where in the left you have what i call the hole or where the water will be accelerated because of the pressure, and than at the right you will see the electrodes or actually the resonant cavity as meyer describe, which water will cross at very high speed. Note than that this right side is the tapered cavity in the next figure.
For last i want to talk about the figure 7.14 where i want you to see that what he calls increased resonant pulse frequency voltage amplitude will raise accordingly to what he calls amp leakage with i consider the flow of water in time!!!
Amp inhibiting process for me is the ability the vic have to not allow reflux of current thus aways imposing an aways increasing the voltage.
Example
Voltage in a resonant circuit raise because of the XL inductive impedance * amperage. If you have 10.000 amps and maybe 4ohms impedance this gives you 40kv. ..
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After reading through your notes i have some points to note...
1. The liquid used in Capacitors is a dielectric, the non-conductive properties are in play until you reach the capacitors limit. It is not the conductive properties of the dielectric that are cause the "capactitance" to occur.
2. If your moving water through an electric field to "induce" a current. It is the additives (minerals and salts, dissolved and susspended) in the water that are conducting. Not the water itself.
3. Once dissasociated the water then "drops" the minerals and salts as deposits on conductive plates. this will (especially with your size gap) alter your dilution ratio of your mixure and changing its conductive properties. Thus throwing out your afore mentioned calculation. Also will cause "deposits" to form on your electrodes.
4.Your endless links to wikipedia (which is a public forum encyclopedia and has no proven or tested principals as benchmarks) do nothing for your credibility.
5.If this is "Stans" injector as insinuated by your title, then you would know that with his invention there was a form of "propulsion" produced by his cell. This was the US Navy's interest. If that is so you would need minimal "Pressure".
6. Potential energy is not free but merely stored energy. Also as far as i know there is no storage of potential energy that does not suffer from depreciation.
7.If your using such massive amounts of ampere your rectifiers are not your problem but the transportation and heat involved. I guesstimate that to move 1000 amp through a wire will generate massive amounts of heat... Not only that you will need wire approx as thick as a elevator cabling (minimum) That excess weight. Not to mention that the losses with moving that many amps even over small distances is astronomical. Reference is every electrical powerline in the world using high voltages to transport power and then converting it down to a safer level for consumer use.
8. You are not the first to write up pages and pages of posts ommiting certain facts and making things up asking for donations, but without evidence and well proof your system "doesn't hold water"
Your idea's and citing the Meyers patents in a new light is inspiring but you may want to do some tests and atleast have a prototype that proves concept over theory.
9. I know with the release of the new V series you might of thought that your opening and reoccuring statement seem cool. But that series ends up with the aliens that "come in peace always" trying to eat everyone... Just point to note.
10. All contributing factors you are yet to explain anywhere that you have discovered anywhere that is not in these forums somewhere. The use of pressure through the cells (tubes and plate) has been done and documented as increasing production but not to the point of making it OU. The length of your cell (or reactive area that you promote at a certain size) will need to be variable, the same cell that will power a dune buggy i doubt would be able to power a mining front end loader.
Needless to say you may be on the right track. You may infact have the working model but just not disclosed it. But to be a stickler (and one of the reasons that i am not as active a poster anymore) is that you are claiming to of invented sliced bread but your still holding the uncut loaf...
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Sebos you should stop begging on sites seriously ... Once was enough ... Plz I am ashamed to even see that thread seriously ...
Be real . You are not some frikkin light savin everybody lol ... Nobody gives a crap about you and you dont give a crap about those people .
BTW those papers suck ... I take my own gutting feeling of whats supposed to happen before any papers ... Im feeling like geometry these days .
I had some of that old hairpulling fun with poweramps for a couple weeks , I can finally run high capacitive loads tho !! Love those days of litterature and frustration ... Just feeling like I did something amazing , it was amazing ... to me at least .
PS: If you 5$ send it to me , I need a big expensive cell for some cool research and tool displaying videos . all those cooks like Bob Boyce , Kevin West and and others with their lame * tech sbegged and scammed enough !!!
As far as I know I am the most competent individual in my field haha !!!!!
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Dankie sorry for what i'm going to say.
You just showed up to be the most incompetent in the area! For the ignorance you show to what is new, come as a gift and is for real!
If mit and real physics for you suck i really believe that you should not waste your time in this research! EHD is known since 1700's
Apologize me
I already forgive you and everyone in this world for the ignorance (is not your fault) many tried to scam in this area, and the world is full of ignorance too, but I never scammed anyone. My intention is to save this world, and i'm conscious that i'm already tired of the ignorance of the people in general, but i will not give up doesn't matter how much one can offend me. I have being illuminated and not only in this research but in life, i'm a person like very few... I have an ideal! I have a smile on my face that won't stop.
Open your mind, i just came with the best theory on this that ever existed so take the time to understand before xxxxxxxx
Best Regards
Sebosfactus
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Hi CrazyEwok,
Thank you For your analysis i will answer you in points:
+
1- I'm not sure yet, however i think that for the conductivity meyer used the ionized gases.
2- Yes you are right is like a simple electrolysis. I guess the ionized gazed for being conductive will work as electrolyte or something like that...
3- The electrodes will not last forever however i believe will last enough to be economically viable, and they will have a separation of maybe 1 or 2 mm thus i believe also that the deposits will not be a such a problem if we use ionized gas and deionized water to run.
4- The links to wiki is one of the materials that took my attention, i don't believe that this links would take my credibility under than i have follow the MIT's open courses in physics and some chemistry. However i'm studying about electronics and hydrogen, electrolysis, sm and everything related since almost 4 years.
5- here you are talking about the HYPER DRIVE witch also used a similar principle. But instead of generating electricity and breaking up the water only it concentrated in give thrusting to the boats. Look for EHD THrUSTER
6- Yes we will have some losses but won't be greater than the gain in energy that we can have. look closely at the calculation i showed you will understand i'm sure.
7- Yes amperage is huge but if we consider that we have water cooling, we can push up to 10 or 15 amperes per mm2. We use coper bars not wire. For the injector i want to try many things different in the try to reduce costs and weight. Just to let you know last device (electrolyzer) witch i can't talk about weighted 140 pounds without water tank.
8- I believe this is the only theory in the world witch holds. I tried everything believe me. Is not a case that you learn it only if you are a doctor, NASA use this already i'm almost sure.
9- I never saw this V series end, i heard the message and were cool and so i used, i'm not an alien and i don't want to eat nobody believe me i'm vegetarian since i was born ;D
10- What can make it ou is to put together the resonance, and nice materials, i told you almost all i discovered about the injector believe me. For sure i want to build it in different sizes to be able to advance in the design to be able to design it to fit every needs.
I never built the injector and is new for me i'm studying 20 hours a day about it on books and i'm going to talk with doctors in physics here to try to find some help...
Thank you very much for posting this is the level i would like to maintain here!
Best Regards
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Sebos , I never really liked you seriously , now that I know you are just stuck and nothing will ever come out of you I just say it . Your begging posts makes me feel weird to even read , its like a really humiliating movie scene you know ...
We are the light.... ROFL .... Gift for THE humanity ...
You are a fool , you beg and cannot even write out a proper sentence in english . But you will put the effort in building awesome tech yeah right ...
You dont even have an oscilloscope to your name , I tought you had a 20,000 euro lab , guess you were just lying .
FUK theories , its all puss talk for the unfit to build .
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Dankie
When you understand what i'm saying you are going to sit down and cry like a baby.
If you want to help, please correct my sentences and make me know, this way the others will be able to understand better what i'm trying to explain. English is not my mother tong and i learned only reading books and singing. Sorry if this bored you.
I wish you luck.
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Your theory is written poorly .
It should be written in this manner
Stan MAY have used this
Stan MAY have done that , here is the evidence .
But it is written as if it were absolute fact , you are right , you are the illuminated one that is going to save everybody .
Its like you think we know wheere your coming from with all that math and wikilinks but we dont ... I read this and im like vvtf ... headache ... scroll ... exit page
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Sorry if i didn't wrote that way, forgive my poor english, the intention was good!
look i just found that i'm not the first to think about this after stan. take the time to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT39rd4P9x4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3uY_yKsCo&NR=1
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wouldn't listen to the forum entertainer so much anyway
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Thank you haithar for the advice I will take it.
Haithar what do you think about what i'm saying ? Does it make sense to you?
I just created a poll to see how much my theory is being accepted.
I would like that all you that is reading to vote.
Regards
thanks
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i think the idea is intruiging and should be followed further but i don't think that's how stanley meyers device work.
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This is funny testing a theory via opinion poll. I must have missed that method when I was studying scientific method in grade school. Let me check... nope not in there.
Andy
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;D It's a funny way to know what people are thinking! ;)
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Hi Sebosfato... there is some merit on your thoughts only tests will prove if it will work or not.
Oh yeah, don't mind the Forum entertainer aka Dankie.
Jolt
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Thank you jolt, ;)
i would like to make you all notice what i found as a comment on the mhd power generation link on youtube i added before:
"sdfab Youre a genius sir!! my hat is off to you...... I thought of the same idea but using hydrogen and oxygen gas created from water which is subjected to a magnetic feild which ionizes and charge seperates the gas making it conductive then further electromagnets on the gas ring accelerate the conductive plasma past our collector windings this increases the strength of our hydrogen after its electron? removal plus the power generation... amazing work my freind "
Sounds something like what we want...
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Oh boy
i think i got it
To ionize and destabilize oxygen we need a load witch will consume the electrons from the air gases.
What?
Yes, picture that we are generating electricity by moving the air inside a electric field so where will the electrons come from to form the current? from the gas ...
Ionizer probably solved
Thats why meyer said he used the electron extraction circuit with a heater resistance as a load. Think about!
:P ;D
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Ok, I did some reading about MHD generator and there are some bad news, this method of generating electric current is very inefficient, but if this method could be added to the electrolysis process then it would make the electrolysis a little more efficient.
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Hi jolt i read few times that EHD and MHD can reach almost 100% efficiency in the propulsion operation if designed well thus i guess inverting the use of the Lorentz forces we can actually generate with very high efficiency. I read about this in few time ago so i don't remember the document but i'm trying to find it again. If i remember well The % is only limited by the resistance to the flow of the liquid on the walls of the system and copper losses. Being water cut by the magnetic fields at high speed the water should just fall apart when it becomes gas it should also expand by a factor or 1800 so should even increase the speed second my thoughts. Anyway if we can accelerate the water enough i believe the efficiency here will not be that important. We are going to use also the principle of the recirculation of the current so i still believe it will still work in the end. My best guess or the most positive vibration one is that meyer used only Stainless steel on the injector, this would make our life's much easier and economical. Who could help us i think is dynodon who have seeing the injectors thru his own hands. Hope he can help us with any guessing.
Good night for you all
see you tomorrow
:)
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sebosfato, there is one major flaw to your reasoning. When current flows, voltage drops and our friend Lenz once again rears it's ugly head. How does Lenz affect a particle accelerator?
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Hi bubz
Lenz force is the the force that a magnetic field exerts in any conducting media against its movement, (simple example if you have a aluminum heat sync and a strong magnet and try to approximate one in relation to the other you will see there will be a force acting, but after some micro seconds it will touch the heat sync) This is because the magnetic field is inducing a current in the heat sync witch generates a counter electro motive force. Thus Lenz forces caused by permanent magnets can actually acts as a break to a moving conductor, but physics tells us something must happen thus an electric current is induced in this conductor or voltage or whatever one wants to call it like.
In a particle accelerator depending on the type they use a variant magnetic field for accelerating the particles if i remember well (coils) The act like a electromagnetic pump in sync with the movement of the particle. and also magnets in a certain configuration to contain the particles in the middle of the tube to avoid contact with the tube walls. They also use electric fields to accelerate the particles. I showed once here in the forum link for a ping pong boll demo video on you tube between two plates and in a circular accelerating configuration.
In our case to lower costs we don't want to use magnets we only are using the voltage to create an initial current, this current will create a small magnetic field, than we are going to make water + ionized gases to cross this electric field at very high speed 100km/h thus this movement will induce a further increasing voltage and a current and thus a magnetic field and so on that will pull the molecules apart by electrolysis. imagine the magnetic field will work like a knife that will just cut the water.
I remember you the work is done by the pressure that forces the water to flow. There will be a resonance there like voltage induce a current, current induce a magnetic field, water induce a voltage this voltage induce a current, this current increase the magnetic field and so on,
I believe that in the end of the injector water is going to be expelled as a GAS probably with few droplets of water together.
I will start doing some tests with somethings i have here, like a high pressure machine to clean cars, some magnets, voltmeter...
Regards
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This is What i will try tomorrow when the paint i added to the little box witch will support the magnets get dry.
I will turn on the water and measure if there is any voltage.
than i will add salt to the water and see if voltage is higher.
Than i will connect the amp meter to see if there is any amp flowing from the voltage generated.
I will also make a tests and calculation to see how much water will flow for minute and measure the size of the nozzle to make a idea of the speed of the water.
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the magnetic field falls off at 1/r^2 so you may wish to make a custom nozzle that will get your magnets closer together
half the distance is 4x stronger magnetic field
1/4 the distance is 16x stronger magnetic field
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Hi donald, yes i know that, you're right!
I did the test because the little box was already dry when i went down there to look but i got a problem and test failed because the two metal slices you see there are actually only one folded in two so was like a short circuit. So i want to construct a kind of parallel plate cell and instead of using magnets i will use the proposed theory EHD of applying some voltage and see what happens, I will use my vic to apply the voltage and the confirmation of if its working or not will be if the voltage raise because with this system i don't have how to observe how much gas it will actually generates.
A second test i would like to do is if this don't work to drive this water at high speed inside my two tubes and diodes setup coil and capacitor (with the recirculation of the current) and see what happens My guess is that the voltage across the tubes will be smaller than it were... however i left my coils in italy as were very heavy :( I need to make my friend send my material to me... but got no money for now. I would need to construct different tubes too though because my ones where steel and were too far one from each other. I think the best option was to build with a 2 cm diameter tube with a inner tube 1,75 cm to have a higher water speed. but this gives me another problem that is how can i direct that jet i have here inside them? Than i remembered The resonant cavity from stan, witch we saw in the dynodon video, it had a hole in the middle of the tubes( wasn't it to recirculate the water with a pump maybe? Only him can tell us if were this the case. I just took a look on dynodons description and oh yeas stan recirculated the water !
Problem one: I left my plates and tubes and everything that were heavy in my fried home in europe.
Two, I have to rebuilt my circuitry because i took it out of the box and disconnected many things, to come back home.
I can solve this all but will take a few time.
Regards, and sorry for the confusion
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you want to move water at 100km/h through a tiny nozzle??? now to move the water at that speed is going to require some serious pressure, maintaining that pressure is going to be difficult also... Ontop of that have you heard of water blasting??? especially if your adding salts to your water your steel will errode very quickly...
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That seems to be the kind of aveform Stephen is getting .
As or that pressure idea screw that , I dont have that kind of power to WASTE .
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you want to move water at 100km/h through a tiny nozzle??? now to move the water at that speed is going to require some serious pressure, maintaining that pressure is going to be difficult also... Ontop of that have you heard of water blasting??? especially if your adding salts to your water your steel will errode very quickly...
Hi crazyewok,
That yellow machine you see in the picture, generate 12 bar as push 310 liters of water per hour at this speed using a 1,4 kw pump . 30m/s - 3000cm/s - 100km/h ( a normal gasoline pump for cars with injection creates 3 up to 4 bar pressure)
Now just understand that we just need to move 4 liters of water per hour and that we discovered a way to boil the water that actually needs at least 20 times less energy than the theory says, as i already described. So i still believe is a good idea to speed up the water. 150 w to boil one liter of water ... What do you think? can anyone repeat that test? ps when doing the test paint the connections of the rectifier with corona dope or something like that and drop it into the water as to not loose any heat.
Meyer recirculated the water between the electrodes as dynodon already told us in his resonant cell thread...
why do you think he did that? didn't he said that were using only 40w? How much do you think his pump consumed???
Think about this questions with attention.
The hole is only where water will be accelerated than it will cross the electrodes as i described in the last page.
Steve what do you think about?
Those who think that i'm out of my mind please prove or show me why! :P
Best Regards ;D
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This may or may not be relevant to the topic but it is an interesting observation and an explanation why in Stan's CA1234774 patent he shows a graph that with circulation the amps are reduced. Tim Walker on another forum took a metal tube and ran water thru it. He measured the volts with a voltmeter and found he was generating a voltage by putting one probe on the outside of the pipe and the other probe to the metal sink.
Andy
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Thank you andy
Is of great relevance! do you have any link?
Regards
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http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/1234774/summary.html
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It may be of relevance. Do the test yourself. As for a link you'd need to join wfcy2k yahoo group and search tim walker's posts there.
Andy
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Read with much attention, this is the abstract of the MEYER patent haithar came up with.
"Process and apparatus for dissociating hydrogen
atoms from a water molecule by electrical force. Particularly,
the separation of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms from the
water molecule by the application of a non-regulated, non-
filtered, low-power, direct current voltage electrical
potential applied to two non-oxidizing similar metal plates
having water passing therebetween. [/size]"
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Nice disussions.
I had lots on my mind here. .....
Maybe the following thought can help.
Plummers known the effect of hydrogen creating in tubes by the movement force of the water rubbing against the tube. It works like a Van der Graaff machine.
Other thought:
Do not forget that you will inject the water into a vacuum environment of the cylinder. Thats will accelerate things a lot.
Electrons and vacuum do like eachother very much.
So, you spray under pressure into a vacuum. Lots of acc if you ask me.
Steve
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I explored the patent ca1234774 here in another thread. I pretty much verified all the claims stan made in that patent. The lawton circuit I purchased arrived doa so I tested with a dimmer switch (poor man's variac), straight dc, a cheap low power pwm and a cheap low power inverter circuit. But that was the wfc and not the final water fuel injector patents that Stan eventually arrived at. Water pumps are relatively low power devices and tap or distilled water is non-corrosive. I found a 12 watt water pump at j.c. whitney that operates on 12 volts. There may be other better ones.
Andy
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Yes pumps can be quite low power. If you take 40w it can become 40kv 1ma or can be 0,001 volts 40000 amps... depends on how you transform it!
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Hello guys
Today I went to a university the most important here in south America. I talked to a doctor in physics for about 3 hours called juan from Spain . He is the responsible for the institute of plasma physics usp and they are doing a research for designing a kind of plasma that will reach 10 million degrees to achieve controlled fusion in about 20 years.
I got some bad news, about ionization, He told me that we wont get any plasma or ionization of any kind without having 10.000 degrees. If we were up to ionize taking out of oxygen 4 electrons we would need 200.000 degrees...
He explained me that if you create a plasma you have the ions witch are the protons close to the cathode separated from the electrons on the anode, and that there is a tremendous force of attraction between them and told me that there is no way to extract the electrons as stan described, actually told me that this don't even exists. He told me that they superheat the plasma to ionize it with passing thru it currents in the order of 100.000 amperes far higher than I ever though was possible....
About my theory he said:
well maybe it can work you must prove it, makes a lot of sense, you should study to have the background to be able to design a physics model to calculate, the people that know what you need for this are too busy to even think about what you are proposing, but would break the theory of thermodynamics however he said" if you are saying that there are so many patents in the field it can be true, nobody would spent 200k dollars to make international patents on the field if wasn't true"
I gave him my phone and said to him that if he ever find someone who is interested and have background to collaborate will give me a call.
I decided to start studying, (following all)the physics course witch will include math.... To be able to do the calculations, and in the end of the year I will make the test to be able to enter in the university legally and finish the course 5 years. There I will be able to use the university materials and labs, and have the opportunity to know lot of people that will help me. I'm 24... well I will study a bit ... I'm one moth late.
Best regards
sebosphysicus
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Hello guys
Today I went to a university the most important here in south America. I talked to a doctor in physics for about 3 hours called juan from Spain . He is the responsible for the institute of plasma physics usp and they are doing a research for designing a kind of plasma that will reach 10 million degrees to achieve controlled fusion in about 20 years.
I got some bad news, about ionization, He told me that we wont get any plasma or ionization of any kind without having 10.000 degrees. If we were up to ionize taking out of oxygen 4 electrons we would need 200.000 degrees...
He explained me that if you create a plasma you have the ions witch are the protons close to the cathode separated from the electrons on the anode, and that there is a tremendous force of attraction between them and told me that there is no way to extract the electrons as stan described, actually told me that this don't even exists. He told me that they superheat the plasma to ionize it with passing thru it currents in the order of 100.000 amperes far higher than I ever though was possible....
About my theory he said:
well maybe it can work you must prove it, makes a lot of sense, you should study to have the background to be able to design a physics model to calculate, the people that know what you need for this are too busy to even think about what you are proposing, but would break the theory of thermodynamics however he said" if you are saying that there are so many patents in the field it can be true, nobody would spent 200k dollars to make international patents on the field if wasn't true"
I gave him my phone and said to him that if he ever find someone who is interested and have background to collaborate will give me a call.
I decided to start studying, (following all)the physics course witch will include math.... To be able to do the calculations, and in the end of the year I will make the test to be able to enter in the university legally and finish the course 5 years. There I will be able to use the university materials and labs, and have the opportunity to know lot of people that will help me. I'm 24... well I will study a bit ... I'm one moth late.
Best regards
sebosphysicus
Strange story Sebos about ionization. Can that person explain how air purifiers work on 3 till 5Kv?
So you stay there and not go back to Italy?
Back to school is kewl......
Go for it!
Steve
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good plan learning the basics and going to a university for this. if it works in the future some day then you'll have the credibility to show it with confidence while others are ridiculed as crazy backyard experimenters.
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Hi Steve and haithar
Yes he told me that this ionizers gives only a very small charge, not even 0,001% or less of the atoms on the gases will charge so will never be a conductive plasma...
I want to stay here as i spent to many time in italy where i needed to pay my rent... was kind of difficult the last times i could not stay there and study more was too expensive for me alone, The police didn't allowed me to play recently so i was very limited with the money, here i have my house and parents that will support me in this new adventure fortunately, they want so much that i study in university, so i will. I think is a good opportunity, to have background to study this thing, and as i already have an idea before entering the university i can actually direct my study and try to find answers to our questions...
I hope they don't insist with the thermodynamics or conservation of energy theories ...hahahaha... will not work on me
The doctor asked me about conservation, i answered:
What happens when you have two 10 megawatts power plants feeding two lasers 90° de-phased, both focused and pointing the same spot in a black wall? Answer: Nothing, any heat is generated, no light is reflected, the wall don't get destroyed, where the energy goes? Didn't conservation told us that energy cannot be destroyed or annihilated, one laser can't cancel the other, where the energy goes? Answer the space time! than he said :
" i'm not sure but there might be an explanation for this" hahha but after i said:
Conservation of energy laws are quite specific to closed systems because they were afraid of creating a law that could be broken so they specified and said in a closed circuit...
Our is a open circuit and we use water to transform or to have a gain in energy... like Stan said... Energy source...
I will keep on testing as i can...
Regards,
Fabio
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crazy backyard experimenters.
Hey thats my expression .
lol jk
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En3lY1MFXKU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolved_sideband_cooling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cooling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence very interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glow_discharge
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I had an idea about the gas processor,
he used lasers right?
i was studying about plasma and drop into laser cooling, they say that 1 mili Kelvin temperatures can be reached if i understood well...
Superconductivity happens when we have the atoms freeze so their electrons are kind of free to be allowed to move.
he also talked about slowing down the electron velocity.. and said that voltage would do this .... well just an idea
What if he was using the lasers to supercool some of the atoms releasing this way the electrons ?
What do you think about guys?
sebos
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mmm, nope... I see it as photo-ionization or multi-photo-ionization. Along with high voltage of course.
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I found a very good source of info about electronics:
http://101science.com/Radio.htm
a science forum where we can possibly find formulas:
http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17189
Hi bubz, this is just an idea because i started to search about cold plasma ...
Best Regards
Good night
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How does cold plasma relate to the gas processor?
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I had an idea about the gas processor,
he used lasers right?
i was studying about plasma and drop into laser cooling, they say that 1 mili Kelvin temperatures can be reached if i understood well...
Superconductivity happens when we have the atoms freeze so their electrons are kind of free to be allowed to move.
he also talked about slowing down the electron velocity.. and said that voltage would do this .... well just an idea
What if he was using the lasers to supercool some of the atoms releasing this way the electrons ?
What do you think about guys?
sebos
This idea is not what Stan Meyer was doing.
First, he used LED's as distraction. He did this, because he loved LED's.
The theory's behind it are nice, but no way it works in a way that you or I see any notice.
Just my 0,02
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Fabio,
Maybe you aked the wrong question towards your professor.
When i turn up my ionizer, i feel the electron wind.
Its like a fan without moving parts!
So, yes. Electrons are moving in an ionizer.
Secondly, you had to inform your professor about the fact that these electrons are bonding with Oxygen which comes from an electrolysis proces.
These Oxygen atoms are missing electrons because of the electrolysis proces and they all want to get into a stable state by ripping or stealing electrons from their environment.
Thats what i notice in my tests here. I clearly see and hear such a change in my engine when i turn up the ionizers.
As soon as my Big Beast waterfuelcell is ready i wanna go to a garage to measure the exhaust gasses from my car when it runs on HHO only.
This with and without ionizer.
See what kind of reports i'll get then..
Steve
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Hey Steve,
I think what the professor meant was to ionize air to the point it become conductive so it could be used on a MHD Gen, it would need a lot of heat.
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Hey Steve,
I think what the professor meant was to ionize air to the point it become conductive so it could be used on a MHD Gen, it would need a lot of heat.
Aha, ok Jolt. ;)
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Hi steve
In the electrolysis process the oxygen that goes out is stabilized there is no missing electrons. The oxygen when is in the form of water molecule shares 2 electrons with the hydrogen atoms, thus there are 10 electrons in the molecule, when you apply the voltage it induce a flow of electrons witch will split the water by oxidation and reduction reactions witch will gain and lose electrons, but actually in the end oxygen goes out with 8 electrons and hydrogen with 1 electron each atom.
The doc said to me that the plasma or when you have ionization you will end up with an ion witch in this case lets take oxygen and free electrons, but he said that they remain there all together if it's really hot, if it's not it will recombine to stabilize immediately.
To achieve plasmas with lower temperature they use cesium or sodium vapor ( like in the vacuum vapor lamps) because they have a lower work function witch allows this atoms to free electrons or to become ionized at lower temperatures or smaller energy. Lithium also have a low work function. than they use this initial conductivity to push thru it the huge current witch heat up the atoms of the gas making it to become ionized.
About the stan assumption of consuming electrons i don't really know, because electrons are electrons and can't become photons or anything else, and they will always be there because being a negative charge and having the atom become positively charged they attract. At least that was what the doctor said.
"If you could put a coulomb of electrons inside a box and one coulomb of ions in another box and let them be 1 meter far from each other the attraction force will be = to the attraction the sun have in relation to the earth or something like that. "
Yes i know this fan behavior of the ionizer it smells ozone also, is the principle behind ion thrusters called also ehd thrusters ...
Did the ionization you are doing helped in someway the engine performance?
Best Regards
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Sebosfato,
You should investigate the Tesla hairpin circuit and light some lightbulbs in water and ask your professor to explain that. Or try to explain that for yourself.
Regards,
Andy
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Hi steve
In the electrolysis process the oxygen that goes out is stabilized there is no missing electrons. The oxygen when is in the form of water molecule shares 2 electrons with the hydrogen atoms, thus there are 10 electrons in the molecule, when you apply the voltage it induce a flow of electrons witch will split the water by oxidation and reduction reactions witch will gain and lose electrons, but actually in the end oxygen goes out with 8 electrons and hydrogen with 1 electron each atom.
The doc said to me that the plasma or when you have ionization you will end up with an ion witch in this case lets take oxygen and free electrons, but he said that they remain there all together if it's really hot, if it's not it will recombine to stabilize immediately.
To achieve plasmas with lower temperature they use cesium or sodium vapor ( like in the vacuum vapor lamps) because they have a lower work function witch allows this atoms to free electrons or to become ionized at lower temperatures or smaller energy. Lithium also have a low work function. than they use this initial conductivity to push thru it the huge current witch heat up the atoms of the gas making it to become ionized.
About the stan assumption of consuming electrons i don't really know, because electrons are electrons and can't become photons or anything else, and they will always be there because being a negative charge and having the atom become positively charged they attract. At least that was what the doctor said.
"If you could put a coulomb of electrons inside a box and one coulomb of ions in another box and let them be 1 meter far from each other the attraction force will be = to the attraction the sun have in relation to the earth or something like that. "
Yes i know this fan behavior of the ionizer it smells ozone also, is the principle behind ion thrusters called also ehd thrusters ...
Did the ionization you are doing helped in someway the engine performance?
Best Regards
The engine gave a very noticeable reaction.
Because i do not have a dyno, i must go on revvs and sound.
The engine ran much better and max revvs went up as well.
Like 30% gain.
Steve
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well very nice,
Did you tried to raise the voltage of the ionizer, or to raise the surface area of the ionizer? is the energy for the ionizer coming from the battery? You tried on the bike right? How much energy you're consuming to drive the ionizer steve? This is very good news. We now need to understand what is really happening.
Thanks steve for all this!
Hi Andy i don't know this harping circuit i tried to google it but didn't found much clear info about it. Did you tried something?
Best Regards
Fabio
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Hi Fabio,
You can start here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsS0BeVeIwM there have been a few replications. They all demonstrate the same thing. I was in the audience and witnessed it first hand.
Andy
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Farra day in energetic forum asked what happens when an electrolyte get contact with the water and why it helps the electrolysis...
sebos:
You made the right question, so here goes the right answer:
When you add an electrolyte to the water what happens is that you ionized the water, Yes you already have separated the oxygen from the hydrogen. But they still together inside the water. Combined.
When you pass a current it will behave like a plasma, so 1 ion goes to one side and the other the other side, the min voltage needed 1,24 volts is the minimum physical force you need to do to keep the charges apart enough to be able to free the oxygen or hydrogen from to and allowing the electrolyte to oxidize or reduce (ionize) another water molecule again.
Whenever you add an electrolyte to the water it will lose its dielectric proprieties as it will be a dielectric with too much losses... remember this!
There are other ways to ionize the water other than adding electrolyte...
Tip when you have a voltage difference in two plates placed inside distilled water, close to the positive side it will be more acid and the one close to the negative side will be more basic. Thats what really is polarization.
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You do know that you are saying that by adding AN electrolyte you give (or take) charge to water??? that is what ionization is. I think what you will find adding an electrolyte does is mix in conductive "particles" into to the fluid allowing electrons to flow through the fluid "easier". I see it as similar to closing the spark gap, the closer they are the less power is required for the electricity to "jump".
Now i am sure that there is some electrolytes that has a "natural" ionization to some extent. But you would need to super saturate the water to see a "real" difference.
Next your acid and basic comments, your comments are true to an extent. Your acid side (positive) is actually concentralions of H2O2 (hydrogenperoxide) which is an acid, On your negative side it "should be neutral, as with every breakdown there is no Hydrogen left over so there is nothing left unaccounted for. Please note that this relies on 3 theories, 1. hydrogen will temp-bond with the negative electrode until there is a suited solution "available" (eg another free Hydrogen also sitting on the electrode), 2. that with the bonds of the molecules weakened and with the extra "movement" of oxygen around the positive electrode formations other than O2 are possible (the occasional O3, but more likely H2O2, which would also be attracted to the positive electrode), Not accounting for "other" impurities in the water making other molecules, eg chlorine gas.
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Hi crazyewok,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water
Here you will find that water is conductive even pure because self ionization. When you add a base or an acid or a salt it will ionize the water creating hydroxide ions...
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Your link to the "self ionization" of water speaks not of requiring electrolyte to trigger this reaction but more on the basis of electron shifting. Which as it has been stated many times that there is billion of "loose" electrons everywhere, the shifting sliding and movement that happens in liquids explains the ionization. You will also note that it requires heat/electricity/chemical reaction for this to happen. Which means you need to add electrons and force them to move about for this to occur. Simply adding an electrolyte i would thing inhibits this as conductive materials can absorb electrons temporarily. Much like adding salt to water raises its boiling point...
But that is my interpretation and Wiki is, as stated before, not a gospel as it is a public contributed library...
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Hi crazyewok
I mean an electrolyte will raise or lower depending on witch electrolyte is, the hydroxide to hydronium proportion witch will cause its ph to change, this cause the conductivity of the water to raise behaving like in a plasma when you have ionized gas for example it will conduct electricity but the ions and electrons will stay together or cations and anions will stay together until you give it more electrostatic force than it can held to split them or at least hold them "far" from each other. Force = q1 q2/ R^2 . In the case of the plasma a gas for example wont become an ionized plasma until it reach a certain temperature because only high temperature can maintain the ions and electrons far apart enough for it to continue to be a ionized gas or plasma or a gas with free ions and or electrons. ( conductive )
If something like cesium or sodium gas is added will behave like an electrolyte because will tend to link with the gas partially ionizing it making an ionic bound.
In water the 1,24 voltage is the energy needed to free the ions from the (ionizing agent) let's take sodium hydroxide, than when its already in gas form the sodium will be able to ionize another molecule over and over again.
In water when you add electrolyte it will link with the covalent electrons what is commonly called ionic bound. That's why its said to be ionized. (presence of free ions free to move)
Thats why i said they are already separated but still combined together. Like a piece of copper, it has free electrons that allow the current to flow, the copper anyway will not broke apart because this free electrons are not part of the valence bound between one copper atom and other.
Water is a polar molecule. In chemistry, polarity refers to a separation of electric charge leading to a molecule having an electric dipole. Polar molecules can bond together due to dipole–dipole intermolecular forces between one molecule (or part of a large molecule) with asymmetrical charge distribution and another molecule also with asymmetrical charge distribution. Molecular polarity is dependent on the difference in electronegativity between atoms in a compound and the asymmetry of the compound's structure. For example, a molecule of water is polar because of the unequal sharing of its electrons in a "bent" structure, whereas methane is considered non-polar because the carbon shares the electrons with the hydrogen atoms uniformly. Polarity underlies a number of physical properties including surface tension, solubility, and melting- and boiling-points....