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Projects by members => Projects by members => Dynodon => Topic started by: Dynodon on November 19, 2009, 22:15:44 pm
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This section will be used to describe the frequency generator as I seen it and how I understand It to work.This post is also only for the resonant cell.
This section is not for any other circuit,or anyones stray ideas about PWM's.
Don
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This topic will start with the basic frequency generator that Stan talks about.
The generator can be devided up into two sections.
Primary and gated.This most people know.
The primary generator is actually in and a part of the scanning circuit.There is a means for manual adjustment,but for the most part, it was in the scanner.This scanner is set up to scan through a given range of frequencies.Stan talks about the range being from 0-10khz.This scanner will start at 0 and go up to 10khz,then back down to 0.As the scanning goes on,there is a phase lock loop that will detect and lock onto resonance.
Now this primary generator must have a 50% duty cycle.This doesn't need to be duty cycle adjustable.Just a clean square wave is all that is needed.Stans scanner did just that.
I got to see a video of Stans scanner doing just that.The video is among Stans belongings.I don't have this video,so don't ask.
If you are trying to use a Dave Lawton circuit,it's not going to work.It doesn't have a fixed 50% duty cycle.But don't worry,you can still make it work.You will need to just run the output signal of the 555 pin 3 through a decade counter wired up as a devide by 2.This will get you a good 50% all the time.
I'll go into the gated signal next then the scanning circuit after that.
To come soon.
Don
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The gating signal used in this system is pretty straight forward.It has two main funtions.First it is needed to give the water time to recover from the seperating process.As the water comes apart,the dielectric properties of water breaks down and needs alittle time to recover to start the process over.
The second funtion of gating is used as a volume control.Once the resonance frequency is locked onto,the gating can now be used as a volume control to regulate the production rate of gasses.This is useful to generate only the amount of gas needed without having too much on hand.But also will allow enough gasses to be available on demand as well.
Stan's circuit for gating also had the ability to control the voltage going to the primary side of the vic coil.This is also a means to regulate production.This is all part of the gating signal.
Now this signal is being generated by using a 555 timer.This signal doesn't have a means for duty cyle adjustment or frequency.The signal is all generated by the inputs from alot of external sensors.Then it is all put together by logic, to generate the gate signal.
But for our own testing we can generate the gated signal the same way,but make it adjustable manually.We can use the same 555 timer with a pot for adjustment.Now this adjustment will change frequency and duty cycle at the same time.Stans system worked this same way.He explains that in his tech brief.As the signal is change the duty cycle follows up or down.This signal doesn't need to be as finely controlled as the primary signal.
Now I have been thinking about this gated signal lately.After seeing the signal generated by the variable plate cell controller,I feel that this signal isn't meant to just turn off the primary signal.I think that it is meant to be on with the primay at the same time.I think thie primary signal is riding on top of the gated signal.Thats how I see the plate cell working.This is something I'm going to experiment with soon.
So thats my thoughts about the gating and where I'm at with my search for the answers.
Don
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Pm me Dynodon , I have just the thing for your experiments .
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Now for the scanning circuit.
This circuit has two modes.First mode is the automatic scanning.The second is for manual adjusting.
The first mode uses a 4046 PLL chip with a feedback circuit to find and lock onto the resonance of the cell and inductors.The feedback circuit is in the form of a pickup coil on the vic transformer.This scanning circuit uses a 555 timer setup to generate a frequency from 0 up to 10khz or higher.There is a center pot adjust that will allow you to raise or lower the total range.This will help in tuning to the type of water you may use.Some water will need higher or lower frequencies.The signal generated from this 555 goes into the PLL circuit where it is then turned into the 50% duty cycle needed to pulse the primary coil.
That 50% duty cycle comes about by passing through a 4017 decade counter.
This scanning circuit then sweeps the frequency from low to high, then back to low again in search of a lock.The lock comes about when the signal generated from the feedback coil on the transformer,matches the generated signal out.Then the PLL locks and holds onto that frequency.
The gated signal is also entered into the PLL chip as well,and it is then added to the generated output to give you your gated signal to the cell.
Thats about as simple as an explanation as I can give on how this circuit works.
This whole circuit was made up of two seperate units.The one I posted earlier of the scanning cards is one panel.It was mounted in the right rear corner of the buggy by the engine.The other one is the GMS controller that was mounted on the dash panel by the windshield.
I will try to locate the pics for these two units and add them here.
Thats it for now
Don
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I understand the main frequency part , at least I understand that he is searching for the high point from the pickup . That is a parameter that you can play with .
But for the gating , what is the sensing parameter , what is he sensing to know what gating time is good or not ?
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Sorry to be a stick in the mud gents, but what voltage are you aiming for??? i see a lot about frequency and gating but not a lot about the actual voltage. Reason for asking is different things need to be taken into account for certain levels of voltage...
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Dankie,the gating is generated by inputs from the laser distributor(engine speed),cell pressure,throttle position.These are all run through a logic circuit,and it generates the gating frequency.It just keeps the cell generating gasses faster than needed.
CrazyEwok,the voltage needed for seperation is between 1kv and 2kv.Stan states that at 1kv the water molecule starts to elongate.So we know we need more than that.And in some of his memos,he mention 2kv.
Don
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This whole circuit was made up of two seperate units.The one I posted earlier of the scanning cards is one panel.It was mounted in the right rear corner of the buggy by the engine.The other one is the GMS controller that was mounted on the dash panel by the windshield.
I will try to locate the pics for these two units and add them here.
Thats it for now
Don
Hey Don, are this pictures different from the ones you already posted?
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I don't have a picture of that panel,but I think It is in my first videos or it's in a news letter.Maybe in one of Stans videos,the one where he puts a tape in the vcr before starting his lecture.
Don
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I spent a little bit of time looking into how to make a frequency sweep
what i gathered is you can use a saw tooth wave, into a VCO, voltage controlled oscillator, to make the frequency change, does anyone have experience with this? there must be other ways to do it too...
it will be a keep part of making this circuit to do the scanning
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Hey Donald,
Here's a PDF file that explains the 4046 PLL IC in really good detail...it should be very useful http://www.globalkast.com/docs/4046_PLL_Chip_With_Voltage_Control.pdf
Also on the pickup coil circuit, the one i made is set to activate once it senses 1kv or more at the cell, this voltage range can be changed by changing the resistor values or # of pickup coil turns.
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I use this schematic for my VIC PLL controller, only needs a gate pulser attached.
Has a transistor driver, but I am using a MOSFET driver now. See my thread.
R1 R2 connected at 4046 chip regulates the resonance frequency bandwidth I use trimmers for all resistors.
UP DOWN is a sawtooth generator for scanner. The lock-in circuit is off chip. PHILIPS had a chip with lock-in build in. When locked-in the chip switches are flipped to hold the signal into the PLL.
Open for discussion....
br,
webmug
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I use this schematic for my VIC PLL controller, only needs a gate pulser attached.
Has a transistor driver, but I am using a MOSFET driver now. See my thread.
R1 R2 connected at 4046 chip regulates the resonance frequency bandwidth I use trimmers for all resistors.
UP DOWN is a sawtooth generator for scanner. The lock-in circuit is off chip. PHILIPS had a chip with lock-in build in. When locked-in the chip switches are flipped to hold the signal into the PLL.
Open for discussion....
br,
webmug
Looks great, Webmug!
Have you tested it already?
Steve
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I use this schematic for my VIC PLL controller, only needs a gate pulser attached.
Has a transistor driver, but I am using a MOSFET driver now. See my thread.
R1 R2 connected at 4046 chip regulates the resonance frequency bandwidth I use trimmers for all resistors.
UP DOWN is a sawtooth generator for scanner. The lock-in circuit is off chip. PHILIPS had a chip with lock-in build in. When locked-in the chip switches are flipped to hold the signal into the PLL.
Open for discussion....
br,
webmug
Looks great, Webmug!
Have you tested it already?
Steve
Yes, I have tested parts of the circuit I build shown in the pdf.
-Triangle (sawtooth) generator for PLL VCO
-PLL pulse generator and filter part
-pickup coil circuit pulse converter for input PLL
-TTL chip switches for switching scanner to filter part control
Now the main part are the VIC coils, core and MOSFET configurations 8)
Thing is when the coils PRIM and SEC are connected the PLL PULSE frequency must be altered for resonance from the PLL PULSE.
To do this a capacitor C1 C2 is replaced. When the chokes and cell are added the resonance frequency is changed so capacitor has to be altered too (when out of bandwidth R1=fmin R2=fmax) Testing resonance is the tricky part, core and coil size is variable. Takes a lot of time to test this.
All help is appreciated!
br,
Webmug
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I just saw now, your interesting threads in here, Don. Thank you very much for them.
To clarify about the + and - voltages. In the present view of physics, there's absolutely no difference if you plug +1000V at one electrode and -1000V at the other, or if you plug +2000V at one electrode and "earth" at the other. Why? Because there doesn't exist an absolute potential level. Only differences in potential are seen (electric fields). An example. If you just go up in the air by 3 feet the potential will usually increase by about 200 Volts! So you see, there's no absolute potential. Even the "earth" potential is different in different locations.
But and here now comes the difference. The water itself also has a potential relative to the environment. E.g. if you take a glass of water and stick a HV DC wire in it, it will for a short while make some sparks until the water has charged to a certain level. One usually says, it has become electrostatically charged. Strictly speaking it's a one terminal capacitor to the environment. If you now stick your finger in the water you will get a small spark, like when you walked on the carpet and then touch a doorknob (the same principle).
So if applying +1000V and -1000V does make a difference in the cell, compared to +2000V and "earth", then only because the water itself had a certain potential relative to them before.
So in this view, it could actually make a difference if you apply +1000/-1000V.
In this relation it is IMHO important to know, that a tubular WFC, like Stan used, does behave differently in relation to charges than 2 plates. Why? Because of the "faraday-cup" effect (inside a conductor the E-Field is zero). This means, if the water has any charge in relation to it's environment, it will give this charge to the outer cylinder and become neutral. This could be the reason, why the outer tube has to be isolated in Delrin. Otherwise it would again give it's charge back to the water around it...
Maybe this could be important. Maybe not...
Ah BTW:
If the upper fact is important, then it would be quite important, that you go again in the inside of the inner tube, before the water (gas) goes out of the tube, and have a delrin cap on top. If you do it like that, the outflow always becomes neutralized before leaving the WFC.
The same for the input plug for the water to the WFC...
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Can you explain your last thought a little bit better? I'd like to catch on to your thinking there, because Stan does have a delrin cap on the top of the inner tube of the stacked resonant cavity unit, maybe.
About the + and neg voltage, I do think the water knows the difference between +1000 volts with -1000 volts, (case 1) and... just 0 to +2000 volts (case 2), and the reason is that it's not voltage that matters, but a "difference of charge" which is one step below voltage, and a little more fundamental
(case 1) you can have a piece of metal missing x electrons, compared to a piece of metal that has gained x electrons
(case 2) you can have a piece of metal missing 2x electrons, compared to normal metal that is not charged
now think about the water molecule, Stan talks about q and q', and coulombs law, opposite electrical attraction force, (case 1) gives the proper charge attraction and repulsion required for the forces on the water molecule, while (case 2) does not
also the chokes are a 1:1 mirror, the positive voltage going into the top choke will mirror it's waveform into the bottom choke with an equal and opposite voltage, the negative choke is connected to ground and to the cell, so the voltage put through it is referenced to ground meaning it has to have a negative voltage, in the sense that it actually pushes more electrons into this choke to accumulate the electrons as a charge difference
(case 1) and (case 2) are the same from a voltage point of view, but from a charge point of veiw they are different, and it's the charges we need to look at when targeting the water molecule
my take on it for now, anyway
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Donald across the secondary you will see 2kv cause the secondary will be driving the tank, however in the water you will have one plate with very high positive voltage in relation to the ground and than the other plate having alternating voltage in it.
The water charge is what is important i repeat net charge. dielectric proprieties. The vic is important part cause you create a resonant tank that doubles the frequency applied while restricting the amps.
The answer is if water has negative charge it will have more electrons in it, if water is positively charged it will have missing electrons. I think the ph would change.
The negative electrode will flip from -2000 to +2000 relative to the ground because of the resonant tank and the positive will be at maybe 20kv relative to the ground because of the charging pump choke after the diode and the resonant tank that doubles the pulse inducing ever increasing voltage in the pump section....
did you saw my stuff?
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@Donald: This is exactly, what I meant. It probably does make a difference, because of the relative potential of the electrodes compared to the water (charge of the water). But it is IMHO important to note, that the whole circuit is according to Don completely isolated (floating). And if one electrode has a much easier ionization than the other, which is actually the case with water, it could well be, that during the process the overall potential (charge) of the water will change. Maybe therefore the gating is needed at the end, to get the water back to neutral? Who knows?
"Last thought" explained: If the outflow gas has any charge left due to the process, and you don't want to waste this charge, you let the outflow go out through the inner tube, for the same reason as above stated, the gas will give then its charge to the inner tube before exiting. But then the end of the inner tube has to be isolated, otherwise the gas could again immediately become ionized, due to the high voltage of the tube (especially at the sharper edges at the end of the tube you would easily get corona discharges at HV). Like that the gas can easily get out of the tube completely neutral, even if the tubes have high voltages.
The other variant could be, that you intentionally ionize the gas at the output. As hydrogen is much lighter, it would rise, and perform work by transporting the ionized gas away -> the remaining circuit would then obviously change its overall potential accordingly.
The answer is if water has negative charge it will have more electrons in it, if water is positively charged it will have missing electrons. I think the ph would change.
Yes, it would change. But as electrons cannot just float in an electrolyte, it's rather, that if the water is positively charged it has more H3O+ ions and if it's negatively charged it has more OH- ions. Therefore the PH change. But I think the change in PH would be minimal at the voltages proposed here.
It already gets quite offtopic. Sorry Don. Delete if you want to.
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Hello kalli,
I think that you don't really want to stabilize the gas if there is a remained charge in it. You should actually want to keep destabilized, maybe plastic or glass tubing is good for that..
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Kali,
I think the discussion of voltage potential in this thread is a good one.I would have to agree with Donald on this one,maybe because I gave him this info a while back,but He expresses it well.
Stan does state the use of attraction and repelling forces working on the water in his process using voltage potential.
Now if we have just a positive 2kv on the outside tube and a 0kv on the negative tube there will be no attraction,repelling forces acting on the water.
But if we have a positive 1kv on the outside tube and a -1kv on the inside tube,now we have an equal attraction,repelling force working on the water.
Now they may be the same thing in the end, but that is just my opinion
Don
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Hi,
I second that. If you look carfully to the patents the ultimate goal is removing the covalent bond between the Hydrogen (positivly charged) and the Oxygen (negativly charged). In his lectures Stan explaines that you need a positive and negative voltage potential. Since opposites attracts the hydrogen will be attracted to the negative voltage potential and the oxygen to the positive potential and the bigger the charges the easier the covalent bond will be broken.
Just my 2 cents ...
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Kali,
I think the discussion of voltage potential in this thread is a good one.I would have to agree with Donald on this one,maybe because I gave him this info a while back,but He expresses it well.
Stan does state the use of attraction and repelling forces working on the water in his process using voltage potential.
Now if we have just a positive 2kv on the outside tube and a 0kv on the negative tube there will be no attraction,repelling forces acting on the water.
But if we have a positive 1kv on the outside tube and a -1kv on the inside tube,now we have an equal attraction,repelling force working on the water.
Now they may be the same thing in the end, but that is just my opinion
Don
Hi Don,
I will try to explain something to you so you know more about it.. . When you have voltage you have it in reference to something. For example if you have one of the tubes connected to the ground, (earth). Here you have 0v. If you apply a voltage between the plates and the plates are not connected to the ground, automatically water being the reference, they will get equal and opposing voltages the way you said, its right. When you have a voltage you must aways think in reference to what. And than you start to see other capacitances in the way and where the magic is.
Hope you understood. You are correct when you say B+ and B-
My theory says that the outer tubes must be at very high pulsating positive static field B+(maybe the reason for the yellow color) , and the inner tube will have an alternating field from positive kv to negative kv B+- in relation to water reference ground. This in my opinion has the ability for energize the water molecule, double the pulse frequency, switch of the bound and develop high voltages restricting the amps.
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here's a circuit equivalent of the water molecule as explained by Puharich and the frequencies responsible for splitting the water molecule.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/ap_water_rep.gif)
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/ap_freq_diagram1.gif)
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@sebosfato:
Thank you, quite good explained, this is what I meant. Much better explained than I did...
@All:
I think this is a nice theory you got there about the +-. But I think there's one major flaw in it, which actually IMHO shatters this theory: The WFC was made as a tubular array!
And as I said before, due to the "Faraday-cup"-effect this changes quite thoroughly what is happening in relation to a WFC which would just have 2 plates.
Explanation:
If you have a metal tube, then the water inside will always remain neutral no matter how you change the potential (voltage) of the tube in relation to this water. The water itself would always see a neutral tube from the inside. This is the "Faraday-cup"-effect.
An example for better understanding this effect:
You have a glass bowl, filled with water. Now you put an electrode in it. Up til now, everything is neutral (uncharged, equal pos and minus). Now you put, say a few thousand volts plus on the electrode. The water will immediately get charged (ionized) by this. Chemically, you will get an anode reaction: 3H20 - 2e -> 2H3O+ + O2 and if some OH- ions happen to be near the electrode 4OH- -4e -> 2H2O + O2
So now, you have more H3O+ ions in the water, than OH- ions. The water is not electrically neutral anymore.
Now you take instead of a glass bowl a metal bowl. And you directly use the metal of the bowl as an electrode. If you now put a few thousand volts plus on the electrode (bowl). Absolutely nothing will happen with the water. No reaction at all. For from the water point of view, the bowl always remains neutral, no matter what charge it has. It could have 100 million volts on it, from the water point of view it would look as if it's neutral. That's the "faraday-cup"-effect.
So from an electrostatic point of view, on which this theory relies, the outer tube is always seen as neutral by the water. At least from the inside of the tube. But as Stan heavily isolated the outside of the outer tube, the outer tube is not able to get any outside contact with the water. So with this information you can easily say, that any water in contact with the outer tube only sees this tube as electrostatically neutral (uncharged).
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Yes your right about that but this is so if you have no applied potential, Is the same principle of the van de graf, when you put a charge inside the ball you will always have 0volts in the center, ok i agree with that. But something you are not accounting is that the charge would remain in the conductor and water in this case become the electrode too, so being the electrical insulated housing the water inside will take on and maintain the electrical charge...
When you apply the voltage between the tubes you will have a differential. For example, you have 40kv between the outer tube and the outside of the container, but now you just put 1000 volts between the tubes, so what happens? Well happens that when you turn off the pulse the voltage between the outer tube and outside will be 41kv for example... So i think it works somewhat related to the van de graf, of course i'm not sure, is just a theory i've thinking this since a while already... But maybe is just simpler than that..
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so being the electrical insulated housing the water inside will take on and maintain the electrical charge...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. If you do not apply any potential across the WFC, but only on the WFC, the water in it has no charge whatsoever. All the charge is on the outer tube.
This is the same about the applied potential. The outside tube will always be seen as electrostatically neutral from the water point of view. Therefore if you say apply a positive 500volts on the inner tube and a positive 1500 volts on the outer tube. Then from an electrostatically point of view of the water inside the tube, the outer tube will be neutral and the inner electrode will have a potential of -1000 volts (in relation to the water itself). Although from the outside point of view it has +500 volts.
This is why the theory of applying + and - relative to the neutral charge of the water goes down the drain, as soon as you have this tubular arrangement of the WFC that Stan used.
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I wanted to mean that if water is inside an insulated place it can take on a net charge just like when you rub a piece of plastic in your hair. Triboelectric effect... Is a propriety of the dielectrics. However the dielectric must be isolated otherwise it would lose this charge for the ambient.
By isolation i mean:
For example the plastic holds its net charge when you simply rub it cause the air surrounding is an insulator.
Water need to be inside an insulator to be able to keep its net charge.
Did you understooD?
I think is almost that.
I would say if you apply +1000volts to the inner tube and +1500 to the outer tube at the same time you will have a 500v between the tubes. In relation to the water the inner tube will be OV cause it is inside another conductor (the outer tube and water) and as such when we send than the negative voltage to the inner tube restricting the amps (in counter phase) it could always pump charge in the bath cause of the van de graf principle.. but i'm not sure if this is the point we should be discussing. I will work automatically. I mean the water outside of the outer tube will take on an electric charge cause it is part of the positive electrode of the resonant cavity (capacitor)... Have you watched well the meyer cell and did you noticed those micro bubbles everywhere seeming a fog?
I'm not pretty sure on that.. its a confusing analysis...
However is good to try guessing what will happen to predict the functioning.
Check my last post in my thread, i spent the morning producing some knowledge..
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Is a propriety of the dielectrics.
It's actually not only a property of dielectrics. All atoms have this behaviour. But in metals you usually cannot see their effects. This is actually also the basis for electrochemistry.
E.g. if you put a copper metal in contact with air, the metal gets charged negatively and the air positively! This effect is also seen between different metals.
But I'm actually not quite happy with my explanation before. As I don't like to speak in absolute potentials (voltages), and the example above is also only completely true for point charges (size 0 inner tube).
I will try to explain it, as simple as I can:
You cannot see charges! You can only "see" E-fields caused by charge imbalances. So let's point it that way: If you name the surface e-field of the tubes the current reference potential to the water, with the tubes with such similar diameters as used by Stan, you could say, that the outer tube has maybe +450V and the inner -550V. if you put 1000v across it. But if you now put one tube to 1million volts and the other to 1million+1000volts or not doesn't make any difference to the water INSIDE the tubes. Outside, the story is completely different.
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You are right all atoms have this ability, but dielectrics can hold this charge separation (induced dipole) for longer, in my view..
I think you understood what i mean when i say the water will be an electrode,. a charged electrode with positive, will have missing electrons...
This is the idea behind. So if water in relation to the outside of the container sits at a high positive voltage static, this missing electrons will interact with the bound.
Water molecules links are not covalent but interact by Van der walls interaction (hydrogen bound)... I mean organization. I need to know more about to explain this better.. but again this is the idea...
Think of the water container and copper capacitor like a high ESR resistance capacitor. One that has a high series resistance if pure water is to be used. This lead us to two problems one is that it affect the Q factor and the other is that it means that a small dc current would give a high voltage.. so the balance of the contaminants and the resonance must be considered.
Is like a balance if you go for one side it become very hard to do such as the other side. So we need to find a balance.
I would say turn on the thing and add tap water to change the contaminants so the differences can be observed.
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I don't want to sound like a broken record, but, I still feel strongly that the ideal dielectric for the WFC will be air(ionized) mix with water droplets and not bulk liquid water with bubbles. The air adds the capacitance needed and insulation in between the water droplets and exciter plates. Being that the cavity is filled with droplets isolated by air, the conduction path will remain open until the voltage reaches a level to allow arc over. Bulk water will not hold a charge. The container of bulk water can, but, not the water itself. Water droplets mixed with air can take on a huge charge and hold it until a discharge path is provided in some way.
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I dont understand the full depth of the posts in this thread but it gave a thought. As there are ppl here with physics/math/electronic design skill, there is something I would like to ask even if it may not work or be relevant.
On a dual rail powersupply, the secondary has a centre tap. see attached basic diagram.
With the resonant cavity drawing, diagram attached, where is the earth symbolised connection on the water inlet connected to.? Im unclear of its purpose - is it for setting a electrical polarity on the water entering the cavity.?
the question: On the VIC coil driving the cell - has anyone contemplated what would happen in the circuit if the secondary had a centre tap and that centre tap electrically connects to the water in the cell. ?
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Very interesting observation. It looks as if the center rod of the cell is not connected to anything... Could it be just a rough illustration? How would you connect the center tap to the cell? Are you referring to something like the "Rotary Pulse Frequency Generator"?
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in that diagram the center rode is shown connected to ground (-v)..it just appears to not be connected to anything cuz he is showing the center rode as being a solid rode which the ends are tapped out and opened so that water can flow into the cavity.
I've tried a setup similar to the center-tap, but i used a power supply that had +12v and -12v outputs. It was a computer power supply and i just connected the +12v to one plate and the -12v to the other plate. Then I measured the voltage potential and it was +24v and it was still using a couple hundred miliamps into the cell.
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Hi, thanks for the replies - i understood theres a + and - electrode zones.
What I was curious about was the earthing/grounding of the inlet, and as the vic/chokes/cell are a closed circuit.
Even referring to fig 8-11 of the rotary vic on the alternator setup, the diagram clearly says - water bath electrical ground 0v.
For a ground point for the water, as seen on the inlet of the "resonant cavity", is that applicable to a wfc and if so could a ground, zero point, be utilised by a centre tap on the secondary as simply seen in a dual rail psu circuit.??
I can see 2 diagrams that refer to the water being 0v, wfc422da and fig 8-11. Writing by others suggests that on a vic circuit and cell they can get high voltages across the electrodes/plates but little output, so might an area to explore be the potential of the watter as in the 2 meyers diagrams?
is a cell a water bath and resonant cavity.?
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He is not referring to the water as ground itself, it is an actual wired connection to ground. As with Tony's power supply experiment, in order for the circuit to complete, a ground is needed... 3 wires... Phase inverted AC/DC of sorts. Stan's brother Stephen has a similar patented invention that uses three tubes, where the middle tube is connected to the grounding third wire. That's the easiest way I can explain it without digging out my electronics books.
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Ive just been reading steven mayers patent 20050246059 and i note the reference to "electrical referencing point 0v".
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Has anyone tried Stephens imependence network card with the 8XA yet?
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I built the impedance network and drove it with adjustable sine wave voltage of +-40V. because it´s a concentric 3 tube configuration (tube within a tube within a tube) you need positive and negative voltage input. so 8XA must be extended to negative voltage edges but the effect will be different from sine input as described in steven meyers patent.
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Bubz So your saying the water should be connected to a virtual ground, like a car frame, if the cell was installed in a vehcle. The amp restricting coil in figure 8-11 rotary vic also shows 0 volts, then this could be connected to the frame also. So as the pulse is shut off it is pulling it is removing electrons from ground to put back in to the system through the diode connected to the center of the winding where it is connected. What i dont understand is where the c/t is connected to with the diode s connected the way they are. Any idea, thanks.
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Good question! I did not pay close attention to that "ct and diode" before. I have understood the diagram more like the illustration below. I honestly have no clue where the ct would connect if at all. It is possible it could be an open/unterminated part of the circuit.
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Using the bifilar secondary he creates two vics in one... so he can create the opposite polarities...
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bubz and sebo thanks for your replys. Been doing a little more research on the center tap winding. Looks like it used for balancing between the two halves. the mismatch of the two coils flows through the center tap trying to equalise the two. The coil with out any dot orientation is usually wound the opposite way. (opposing) Sometimes it is used to reduce magnetic hum in components. thats probably. one of the reasons the amp restricting coil is on there is to bring that part of the system back in to phase with the secondary biffilar coils. From some of the other research the center tap could be reconnected back to the other center tap windings to bring that part of the system back in to phase with the wye windings of the alternator. It sound logical but havent tried it though. just have to try to figure why the diodes are placed like that.