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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2008, 05:52:55 am »
Nice idea  , seems plausible tho , also seems like a pain to actually get together.

its not meyers

lots of ifs and maybes

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 09:44:30 am »
well, it looks interesting to me too.
I watched the video andthe reaction is nice of the water.
So, he chipped of a little bit of emaille of the wire. So, no fully insulation here.
Just a little anode and a big anode.
Looks like puharich......

br
Steve

hydropower

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 18:12:52 pm »
One thing we may want to consider in the future is resonance in the circuit, and the size of the water cap.

To get resonance I think we'll most likely need to build our WFC to have the similiar capacitance of a spark plug.
From what I have read the average spark plug seems to be around 40-60pF, correct me if I'm wrong.

 I think we need just the right size capacitor if were wanting to hit resonance and make the most out of our circuit.
After all ignition coils are not really capable of high frequencies.

Take the standard V-8 ignition coil, operating at 6500RPM's.

6500RPM's X 8 =52,000 cycles per minute/ 60 =866 cycles per second....So with a V-8 coil were probably looking at a max frequency just under or around 1kHz.

I ahve seen coils operate at higher frequencies (even 8kHz) but I think if we want to make it most efficient we need to keep it in the ranges it's meant to be driven in.

The size of the cap needs to be fairly small, most likely the same size of a spark plug or near the same size. With that we can achieve resonance and a most efficient coil output.


Wikipedia-Saprk Plug

"The plug is connected to the high voltage generated by an ignition coil or magneto. As the electrons flow from the coil, a voltage difference develops between the center electrode and side electrode. No current can flow because the fuel and air in the gap is an insulator, but as the voltage rises further, it begins to change the structure of the gases between the electrodes. Once the voltage exceeds the dielectric strength of the gases, the gases become ionized. The ionized gas becomes a conductor and allow electrons to flow across the gap. Spark plugs usually require voltage in excess of 20,000 volts to 'fire' properly."


I think when it comes to resonant cavity we should use a non-linear cyl resonant cavity as SM shows in his patent.
(http://)

But before we do anything else...The best thing is to test the ignition coil with VIC and wfc to make sure it works.

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 19:59:06 pm »

To get resonance I think we'll most likely need to build our WFC to have the similiar capacitance of a spark plug.
From what I have read the average spark plug seems to be around 40-60pF, correct me if I'm wrong.



Well yes you could tune the water capacitor to fit the right capacity or you just change the frequency to hit resonance again.

all you must know is the inductivity of the inductor and the capacity of the wfc. two easy math formulas.

Fiditti

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 22:38:55 pm »
haithar,

Sounds interesting.  Would you please elaborate?  What's easy for you may not be easy for some of the rest of us.

Fiditti

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 23:20:47 pm »
HMS-776,

Thank you very much.

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 01:08:07 am »
haithar,

Sounds interesting.  Would you please elaborate?  What's easy for you may not be easy for some of the rest of us.

Okay since some people aren't really well in math, i'll explain a bit more. Saying look up the terms doesn't always help when you are simply not good at understanding math by yourself ;)
I'll use the information of this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit

The frequency you want to use in your circuit is called f.
Given:
 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/1/8/4/184ebbb90449a634232e5a0bf9089159.png)
The w (omega) is 2*pi*f, so we have:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/5/9/c590ada4adc34c253de22ee959b8be5c.png)
L is the inductivity of the inductor (measured in Henry), C is the capacity of the used capacitor (measured in Farad).

The simple way is getting a measuring device for both, they are cheap nowadays and more or less accurate. The most exact way would be getting both data via math.
Start with the capacitor, the formula:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/3/9/c398c6d4bebd070bb92b186575881980.png)
All you need to know is the Area (A, m²) of the plates (or the tubes, depends on what you are using) and the distance between both (d, in metres). the "e" is the dielectric constant.
The inductor math depends on what type you are using, there is a pretty good explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor#Formulae

So now it isn't as important as before which type of ignition coil you would use or how long the tubes or how big the plates of your cell are. Just calculate the new resonant frequency and everything's fine.

If you are using an ordinary capacitor and the water capacitor somewhere else in your layout/schematics the formulas are still the same.


I hope some more do understand the frequency thing now (if you want to achieve electrical resonance!).

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Re: Replacing the VIC coil with an Ignition coil
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 02:30:38 am »
well , w/e  freq  that allows highest voltage  you get 5 or 10 turn pots and sweep

i dont feel resonance is key here , pulsed opposite magnetic fields from bifilars is what does the work on the water

.