Author Topic: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb  (Read 2337 times)

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Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« on: July 25, 2024, 17:29:17 pm »
I studied US Patent 3980053 vigorously years ago. I typed 2 pages of proof reading errors made by the Patent Examiners. Doing a recent review of my findings, the ratio of windings is lastly, still a problem. The main circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition at 600watts, and used for electrolysis, instead of low wattage unit for running a common ignition coil.
There is an "inherent" built in lowered efficiency set up ,designed in by Horvath, on purpose. The schematic electrical hook up in the Patent is to be able to use heavy amps as a final , without using a heat/energy wasting rectifier at 200 pulse amps at 600 watts. This brilliant small section of circuit solves the energy waste problem, but the step down windings ratio was incorrectly stated in Patent. With 300 volts injected by the cap into primary inductance, there seems to be a 270v loss to get to 30volts , and then a 10: 1 ratio, for final 3 volts DC. I then assumed there was a mistake as it should be 100: 1 ratio. But then again, that CANNOT BE RIGHT SINCE THERE IS AN INHERENT EFFICIENCY LOSS BUILT IN. The beginning power supply Inverter is high frequency 10,000 cycles. The 1st transformer for the Inverter is FERRITE CORE, which is normally designed for that frequency. The second following transformer using the discharge cap and ratio has low grade, low frequency iron laminations core. This speciality is for the designed in output pulse called critical positive voltage damped wave form, as a degraded final signal. (No heat loss from a 200 amp diode.) The core produces heat which is used to heat the water.

The question being presented here is, is it true then, because of the larger winding core loss of low frequency laminations on high frequency, that the REAL final winding ratio would be changed to approx 70 : 1 to be able to still get the required 3 volts as final?? I understand that Patents don't reveal exacting details, and the typed Patent should say 100:1,- they said 10:1 and are both wrong.

Instructions for the small CDI units for car or small engine ignition say that the high frequency unit is hooked to the regular auto ignition coil. Ignition coils are all called autotransformers with 3 terminals. The interior CORES ARE ALL low frequency iron laminations. Maybe I am reading too much into this, as it is common for cdi to use the iron lamination cores. What we didn't know was, the output pulse is POSITIVE DC VOLTAGE.
In The Patent, Capacitor discharges 22 amps pulse at 300v DC into primary coil 185microhenries. The ratio primary to secondary side changes current to 200amps pulse at 10,000 times a second.This then creates sufficient hydrogen fuel along with the other increases in efficiency for water cell. The engines then, run on water from tank.  That particular ratio was 1 to 10 for higher amps. to cell. The amount of current injected relates  to quantity of fuel gases evolved. What about the voltage reduction ratio??? 300 to 3 is not 10 to 1 ratio. Is there really a 270v loss in the transfer??

(Or just maybe the LAST actual proof reading error in the US Patent, was the ORIGINALLY WRONG FINAL VOLTAGE, AS It should be 30 volts PULSE DC!) 10 to one Ratio for both voltage 300v down to 30v and current up from 22A to 200A. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.) Your comments needed!
 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 00:47:17 am by russrHHO »

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2024, 16:28:12 pm »
I said the device was used for improved efficiency of electrolysis of water to hydrogen. The Patent said so. The complete explanation STEP BY STEP is in the Patent write up with a parts list.. The 2 transformers in circuit were hand assembled as pertinent only for that circuit. The Inverter is NOT similar to the old style methodology, due to the type of rectification used. You did not read / study US Patent 3980053 for free Internet on line, to grasp the significance of this invention. A firm does not expend $5000 for attorney fees to process Patent application without substantial merit. Engineer Horvath's first 2 patents related were similar but differed as to final output of either low voltage or high voltage. His last Patent referred to Magnetron radiation tube in water cell center delivering sufficient hydrogen fuel. The final take on this overall, is that several special parts as described are not really necessary, and are there just to deter people from trying to duplicate the system. His self running car at 40 amps power draw, was public demonstrated several times and in local newspaper New Zealand.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 16:48:20 pm by russrHHO »

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2024, 17:14:11 pm »
It is also possible that the manuscript submitted to Patent office by Horvath was published as is. This would include the 2 pages of proofreading errors I had found, INCLUDED as designed in, to deter the commoners, from any duplication. Quality technicians and Engineers can follow the write-up and fully understand the flow of details. I said the device was used for improved efficiency of electrolysis of water to hydrogen. The Patent said so. The complete explanation STEP BY STEP is in the Patent write up with a parts list. The 2 transformers in circuit were hand assembled as pertinent only for that circuit. The Inverter is NOT similar to the old style methodology, due to the type of reversed rectification used. The DIRECTED magnetic field pulses SPEED UP the ions across the water gap of spoked electrodes. The PULSING METHOD of DC to the electrodes promotes the charged ions stuck to surfaces to be immediately released, and flow upward, better than straight DC. ( THE Archie Blue Patent uses small pumped in air that does a CLEAN SWEEP of ions off of the aluminum perforated stack of discs electrodes in vertical cell. His 3 cars ran on water with 40amp battery draw.) The heat from laminations heats the water to speed up electrolysis. Instant generation of fuel gases as H+H+ O-- ionized and not H2+O2, contains higher energy content If FIRED right away in engine. You did not read / study US Patent 3980053 for free Internet on line, to grasp the significance of this invention. A firm does not expend $5000 for attorney fees to process Patent application without substantial merit. Engineer Horvath's first 2 patents related were similar but differed as to final output of either low voltage or high voltage. His last Patent referred to Magnetron radiation tube in water cell center ALSO delivering sufficient hydrogen fuel. The final take on this overall, is that several special parts as described are not really necessary, and are there just to deter people from trying to duplicate the system. His self running car at 40 amps power draw, was public demonstrated several times and in local newspaper New Zealand.

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2024, 18:25:07 pm »
Nice!!! Thank you for posting  :)

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2024, 18:33:29 pm »
its simple? Maybe. You need the 200 amp pulses in the waterbath.
To get 200 amps, you need a higher voltage then the normal 2 volts. U=IxR
Do the math.
So, it is important to understand how much time to current has to flow till you have the 300 amps.
Then you have the system tuned.

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2024, 18:37:12 pm »
you cannot measure the 200amp pulses
you probably can only calculate it....

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2024, 22:01:42 pm »
More data for those interested in building the Horvath design of low 30v voltage output The Horvath cell is based on the oscillator firing 10,000 pulses per second at .006 duty cycle to SCR which allows the 22 amp discharge into the primary of TR#2 . The math formula has the 22 amps coming from inductance 185 microhenries on iron laminations core + using the ! microfarad capacitor with 300 volts DC The SCR self shuts off each time. . This is per pulse basis. The 22 amps is then multiplied by 10 for 200 amps to cell using the turns ratio of TR#2. The total wattage is based on times 10,000 cycles of the pulse watts.  The original Patent cell operates on .42 duty cycle. There is no completed closed loop magnetic core as a circle or rectangle core. This allows for a more degraded final signal that's desired using a straight section of core only. The high frequency type GE 35 amp SCR has dropped in price. The Polypropylene only, 1kv capacitor  at 1mfd.is still expensive. (or 2 .5uf caps in parallel) Ferrite core sets are easy to obtain for hand winding wires. . There are modern versions of Power inverter using MOSFET instead of Bipolar transistors.
1 / F = Period of frequency    duty cycle = on time pulse width / total period in seconds. I use the lower cost miniature China oscilloscope DSO 138 as welded- completed unit from Ebay.. Power supply as extra cost.Get inductance meter.The Invention parts not needed as in patent, ; -- special cast manufactured carburetor,and  mesh screen to separate gases. The circular cell with internal spoked electrodes can be changed to narrow high temperature gray PVC hand made box with removable top, and using large North and South plate magnets or multiple Neodymium magnets taped to opposite sides on outside of box. The internal flat steel plates are machine Knurled and the several steel strips flutes are Knurled. Flutes screw to plates from back side and flush. Flutes are  also filed pointed. Flute strips points face each other in water cell. (represent the spokes of electrodes).These pieces  are sent out to be electroplated with Nickel.The gases separation is not needed or wanted. The fuel flow output goes to safety water can with pop off over pressure cap before engine intake. A used Carter single barrel carb is mounted on 1/8" adapter plate for the intake manifold of engine. I liked the 1994 Geo Metro 3 cyl engine. It had adjustable distributor for the late timing required. The car engine compartment has plenty of room for parts and test meters. Single spark plug riding mower with Briggs engine could also be used. The carburetor VENTURI spot is drilled and thread tapped for brass fitting for short beveled copper end, and is called a SPUD IN JET. These were also used on small engines many years back when converted to propane fuel. Fuel hose with clamp hooks there from the safety can. The inverter being high frequency output needs FAST RECOVERY RECTIFIERS/ DIODES rated for current and voltage. I use FR607 with 12v .3A fan. The VICTOR VC921 digital multimeter will read voltage up to 10khz. The old style ANALOG  ones with face and needle will also register high frequency voltage. Fuel control can be aided using $42 adjustable 12v vacuum switch.Float chamber with float mounts on end of box. The several efficiency improvements installed in the original Horvath design was superior back at that time period.

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Re: Horvath Patent Notes Engine Conversion To Water In Carb
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2024, 19:11:47 pm »
Почему тут тихо!!
Куда девался Себосфато?