Author Topic: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?  (Read 1048 times)

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How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« on: September 15, 2023, 01:48:53 am »
An Inverter with ac output could operate primary of a regular type Ignition transformer , so as then,a voltage multiplier could be used. The current mower engines have a built in epoxied solid state trigger for the final MAGNETRON , 3 terminal autotransformer, so as it is a one piece unit. The original type was called a MAGNETO as just a transformer that worked with points contacts and condenser capacitor. Then came the same MAGNETO that could be used with an accessory trigger module , either Briggs brand or the universal type trigger module which was better, as engine would start at less cranking speed.
Another idea of mine was to ADD stronger magnets to the curved ALNICO magnet embedded in rim of flywheel. Magnets are not made as exact curve of flywheel. Therefore the only way is to use thin type , vertical, NEODYMIUM magnets super glued onto the existing one so as north pole faces outward that is .012" from MAGNETRON core laminations. This is called armature gap. The thin sideways measure has less of a curve for each one! I succesfully tested this theory on hand made spinning wood flywheel that fires a magnetron/magneto with trigger. Resulting high volts actual readings were not measured. I was also able to switch to a Positive high volts , rather than regular negative high volts with positive ground. (Upside down ignition coil) Ok If magneto with separate trigger, but not Briggs brand complete Magnetron. (The MAGNETRON coil using the universal type trigger will operate both polarities- but not the older style Briggs brand. ) See different photos of both types. On very old lawnmowers, the smaller flywheel had 2 magnets of both north and south poles firing the ignition coil with AC, with breaker points and condensor.
Some older cars had what was called HEI high energy ignition coils with outputs of 23-60,000volts. The mower ignition firing is only 10kv under compression , 6kv in air, and needs to be greatly increased in voltage for use with alternate energy projects that need a pre-type PLASMA PATH across spark plug, as the much higher voltage HEI units already do. How do you think this should be done. I am not an engineer.


The Briggs ignition coil (armature) gets about 1-1.6 amps induced into it, at about 5-8 volts, from the spinning flywheel magnet. The system shorts, to put out back EMF of -140volts. I propose using primary connection of 12v DC with resistance so as limiting current DC, but higher than normal. Resulting magnetic field should be higher. It will also short to ground with trigger as usual. Also several technicians have added capacitance with auto ignition primary coil inductance , so as raising the operating frequency of entire transformer, and increasing efficiency and higher voltage, due to being closer to the resonant frequency of transformer itself. No one has mentioned this about lawnmower coils. There are ignition boosters for sale but they are electric. Most riding lawn mower engines use a magnet for ignition, and 12 magnets for battery charging with enclosed ring alternator- only the crankshaft has to turn. A standard Lawn mower engine cannot be used for an alternate energy project without some way of greatly increaing the output voltage.l The Last resort is the conversion to car coil HEI, or adding to spark plug what is commonly called "Peaking Capacitor " of 100pf at 30KV,- which works, but dangerous to humans. The parallel spark capacitor has slightly raised up gas mileage of car owners with slight gain in power.
 

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2023, 05:33:18 am »
Other methods to increase ignition voltage can be insertion into a pulse type, step up transformer, laminations type, with the ratio desired . Since ignition is just pulse voltage out one direction and not AC, the common multiplier circuit can't be used. The other method is to add accessory spark gap with attached PF capacitors in and hooked to air core copper coils transformer of about 1:3 ratio. (Small voltage type Tesla coil / Tesla hair pin circuit with Radiant Energy)  The reasoning behind this , is that the lawn mower SS ignition coil (Magnetron) is only 10kv and not strong enough voltage to perform PLASMA PATH for the expected DC current injection into spark plug. S1R9A9M9 - Nathren and his tech people either did that Tesla circuit, or just used a PF PEAKING CAPACITOR . But that is a very short time constant compared with ignition volts. The whole idea was to allow extended time constant for about 34% ON TIME of circuit not just near TDC.This allows more DC current contact with water and water vapor . The 1978 car got 18MPG on water but was using HEI as about 28KV from high energy ignition chevy coil in top of distributor cap, as good Plasma Path.  My bench project has small board with inverter to DC high frequency type with bridge rectification charging 47Uf cap with 200v output through 15kv block microwave diode. This is against the ignition high volts output , so as not having to increase the original 10KV.  The cap discharges with Radiant Energy allowing plasma path. ( An increase of string series protection diodes bank requires much more input draw current and wattage from input battery.)  It's best to keep the ignition volts at a lower level.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 06:08:08 am by russrHHO »

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2023, 20:22:13 pm »
The original Magnetron engine coil was changed to a DUAL cable ignition type that was for a 2cyl Briggs engine, and used on my Briggs 1 cyl 12HP.  That one has a complete separate secondary.  (Briggs 2 spark plug engines can  have both single and double Magnetrons) This way the neg cable can go to ground and the +pos cable goes to spark plug. This is for using a positive type spark. The other 2 methods of positive spark have a large loss of output voltage due to being an Autotransformer type with prim as part of the sec side. I also super glued on several thin 20mm length neodymium magnets on the flywheel magnet to get stronger output high voltage. I also added ring type neodymium magnet on spark plug so as there is a guaranteed magnetic field at plug tips. Currently reworking the homemade vacuum box for spark processor as diode, L coil 1.5Mh , 221PF 30kv capacitor, and Tesla magnetic spark gap with N + S button neodymium magnets opposite Tesla type carbon and aluminum electrodes gaped about 5mm.. This is used in conjunction with the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly so there is the required accessory spark gap on lawn mower engine. Engine under compression has higher voltage needed than in air. Therefore the protection series diode bank needs to be about 25-30KV fast diodes capable of 6 amps minimum. The S1r coils have insulated Magnet wire #12 gauge , that is acted upon by amps magnetic field coils over it so as the spark time is extended from 0-neg 34degrees late timing. (See design method on internet images and the one called Megatran.

The 1978 V8 that ran on water in carb had the HEI ignition coil that's mounted in top of distributor switched around so as the 2 wires on primary side was set for POSITIVE high v. output from ignition coil. They said about 24000volts at 6-7 amps through spark plug needed. The generated water vapor pressure along with hydrogen gas electrolysis kept engine self running and then got 18miles per gallon with water in tank. The original car engine tests in Georgia 2005 - on, used this following circuit that was part of the dual coil relays in vacuum per cylinder.  Diode half wave DC for about 45 volts DC to junction to  l inductor about 1.5Millihenty, to joint of hi v. input to L  coil inductor 1.5Mh to diode to spark plug. There was a bypass diode at 1st junction over to spark plug. Wire went from exact bottom of spark plug back to diode to return line to power supply inverter. 400W 110v AC , 60cycles, type called power on board.The 60 cycles relays were in vacuum + extra diodes mounted on outside screw terminals. I made the processor box to replace THE UNAVAILABLE RELAYS. The 3 technicians back then called them "The Magic Relays", since other replacements did not wok, or were not efficient to run engine smoothly. They also found out that EGR engines ran way better, due to the recycled Nitrogen from the exhaust. I studied the now closed website. Questions?

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2024, 15:48:52 pm »
Another method of increasing lawn mower high voltage is to add a series spark gap in line with the spark plug. The plug in air gap of 1mm is about 3KV. Under compression of Briggs engine , that would be multiplied by about 5 as 15KV. The compression ratio is 5.8 to 1, as squeezing more air into smaller space. The spark plug will not increase in volts after compression if the load stays the same. The 2 spark gap voltages will add together, making the ignition coil (Magnetron) raise up to a higher level !  This higher ignition volts can THEN  be used with the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly to be able to get a higher crossover leakage induction voltage that would be in series with the main amps line, with the low volts, going to spark plug. The electrolyte salt water at plug gap needs a higher volts  (100-200v) to be able to force 6-7 amps THROUGH the spark plug . The water solution at the spark plug gap is NOT zero ohms, and is about 22 ohms.   Formula E needed voltage = R X I.  ( Electrolysis of water at engine spark plug to get sufficient Hydrogen to run engine at idle speed at a lower power level.)  Nathren's earlier  web forum had various tech data that was gleaned before it shut down.

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2024, 01:33:21 am »
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Thread Starter
russwr


I need a circuit for using only a standard lawn mower Briggs magnetron to increase high voltage output to 24,000volts! The flywheel magnet instills 5-8v PULSE ONLY, trigger shorts the primary to ground, then back EMF creates negative -130 volts to run the secondary side for negative 12,000volts. The primary is very low .2 ohm resistance. The metal core end connects to ground for secondary side and trigger side, + the trigger connects primary to ground. The open tab terminal is accessible for primary wiring . Can this be attached to 12 volts DC to superimpose on the 5-8volts, to get a higher secondary output? How? Mower ignition is called autotransformer with 3 terminals only. The aftermarket solid state trigger module called Stens operates when the voltage is indicated going into primary from the North pole magnet. The internal transistor switches on temporarily to ground. This connection maybe could be used for another transistor to instill 12v DC superimposed onto the magnet voltage. This would then instill a higher back EMF that runs secondary side for higher, high voltage. Also, a different burst oscillator mode, for single pulse desired, could be used and then shut down by the trigger. Maybe the 12v DC has to be triggered in, so that it doesn't short the primary winding to burn out. That's the problem. Ideas??? I have magnetic hall switches to operate a transistor to switch in the 12 volts. ( A voltage doubler circuit requires only AC input) The small unit being sold for autos is a high frequency oscillator that raises also up to 16 volts pulse to the ignition, - was called firestorm for as $8 to $75. A man in England on YouTube was adding parallel capacitor to TV fly back primary to raise up high voltage as the resonant frequency of wire and ferrite core is way higher, and run from high frequency oscillator.
I already tried increasing magnetic field by adding neodymium multiple magnets on top of North pole magnet with no volts increase. ((After 1982, The Briggs ignition coil had built in solid state transistor and trigger coil under the epoxy, and then all are called MAGNETRONS. - Uses same name as the glass tube oscillator in a microwave oven.)) The other model ignition Magnetron, with 2 ignition cables, has secondary side not connected to primary side. That dual cylinders Briggs engine fired one side negative high volts while the other spark plug fired positive high volts. The system is still single pulsed based,- NOT AC.
The way earlier pre-1982 Briggs ignitions were called MAGNETO with points + condenser, that used plain autotransformer without any solid state. I had earlier contemplated to add a south pole magnet next to North pole one, to get AC to run the Primary of a MAGNETO transformer, and use double universal triggers with blocking diodes to get it to run. Only then, can the common AC voltage multiplier be used to increase the high voltage on the secondary side. That is also still a primary+ secondary auto transformer system. If that was used , the secondary side has reduced high voltage, as the metal core has to be mounted upside down to get positive high volts. - The primary is not then part of the secondary when fired. Any ideas?
 
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 04:18:20 am by russrHHO »

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2024, 23:52:06 pm »
Another possible method to increase mower engine high voltage is to add a Hall effect sensor  circuit that senses the North pole field of the flywheel rotating magnet near the magnetron, and use the output pulse to turn on Mosfet for 12 volts dc to go to the tab terminal on the engine coil. That terminal is connected to primary, and is normally used to shut off the mower engine by the ground connection. Insertion of FAST12 volts superimposed on the 5-8v from magnet would increase the back EMF generated, higher than -130v,  so that the secondary side gets higher, high volts output.  A unipolar Hall, 3 pins, on the small board would have the leads bent u shaped so that the hall head faces backwards. This would allow the North pole to turn on the switch. After magnet passes by, the circuit shuts off. Mosfet power switch is way faster than a small relay to allow battery volts on to the Primary coil. A 3 ohm resistor would be put in series with the .2 ohm primary coil, so as about 4 amps flows, higher than the usual 3 amps.of primary ignition on a Briggs lawnmower engine.
 It was assumed that 24000 volts is required for the engine conversion, along with the equal or greater than 100volts cross leakage induction volts to push 6 amps through the spark plug water cell of about 23ohms, to get the hydrogen fuel and water vapor pressure at retarded timing -34degrees.

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2024, 08:52:56 am »
Hi Russ,

Can you try to explain in steps how all this should be able to work?
Most of us tried the waterdrops and sparkplug setup.
What s different with this one?

cheers!

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Re: How To Increase High Volts Of Lawn Mower Ignition Coil?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2024, 01:03:26 am »
What's different with this set up by S1R9A9M9? How is this not like other set-ups for spark plug firing water that was tried?

The three technicians in Georgia 2005-2013 and Nathren, who was MOSTLY observing, decided to operate engines on water to hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure, without a separate built electrolysis cell.
1. The water has to be an electrolyte, - such as salt water or baking soda, not plain water. 
2. The injection of current has to be limited to 6-7 amps DC. (Fast visual only done with an oscilloscope for pulses) or analog meter with needle. Higher current burns away electrodes.
3. Resistor such as 1 ohm used on ground side of spark plug tested with probes across resistor, so as scope not damaged. I = voltage read divided by resistance across one resistor in series.
4. The circuit must be in milliseconds, not microseconds.
5. Capacitor discharges through spark plug are in microseconds.
6. A circuit with plug that has low voltage 6 amps flow with amp gauge and series variable resistor pre set for 6A ,will show 6 on meter when plug is shorted to ground with screwdriver for a full connection.  But when plug gap changed to electrolyte, the gauge drops to 1 tenth amp flow.  A regular electrolysis cell needs sufficient square inches surface area metal at a low voltage. The spark plug tips are tiny and require much higher volts to push the same current. The electrical load has increased to 10-22 ohms. Therefore, a higher voltage 100v and higher is necessary to  push 6 amps through spark plug. The triple wire coils assembly of S1R9A9M9 has a 5 turns Ignition bare wire that induces into #14 gauge insulated wire a  greater voltage from crossover leakage induction volts. The unit was called Electromagnet and Booster coil.  This was to replace the dual L coils  of the specialized relays per cylinder that were used on all the previous car engine conversions along with the main Inverter box 110v AC to half wave DC.
7. The high voltage line requires inductor L of about 1.75millihenry to help with the reduction of spark speed. ( wire on insulated plastic bobbin holder only) (60 cycles coil at .6 ohm  reactance of L, as 1.75Millihenry, - coil of original relay)
8. The timing of engine for smoother running requires late timing , ATDC of about 34 degrees negative.
9. The factory Briggs engine was preset at TDC, so as the Electromagnet allowed the spark time to extend onward from zero to about 34 degrees late.
10. The timing point at lower piston travel allows water as volatile by the suction effect to be acted upon to expand to vapor pressure for additional pressure for piston.
11.  The magnetic field effect follows wires and increases efficiency,  and is at spark plug tips . Magnetic field reduces spark plug speed also as it is wrapped over plug wire.
12. The ignition voltage wire enters in exactly at the point of the cathode of diode/diodes protection bank.
13. Electricity always wants to follow direction of the least resistance.  DC Ignition attempts abruptly to pass through the ON DIODE backwards, as it senses a ground that way. The diode fast closes off, and ignition compresses , then releases back to do the EFFORT of JUMPING spark plug gap. This diode/ignition event  releases RADIANT ENERGY that follows to spark plug tips.
14. Ignition DC volts on previous cars were about 24,000 volts. Lawn mower engine Magnetron volts is lower, but can be adjusted upward with an in series, accessory, adjustable spark gap The car engines converted all had 2-3 spark gaps in series,- distributor rotor gap, relay contacts gap, and spark plug gap. .The compression effect on spark plug also causes Ignition coils to increase output volts.
15. Ignition polarity is to match the polarity of the current added to the circuit.
16. MANY fast recovery type diodes required for wiring circuit FR607.
17. Placement of parts in certain order for higher volts of crossover, as Ignition coil to diode blocks, to S1R coils, to accessory spark gap, to insertion point last cathode, to inductor, to diode to spark plug. (the 2 spark gaps in series have voltage drops)  Higher volts wanted on the crossover point .
18. Nathren said that other wiring design coils would work too. I assumed he meant the 5 turn bare wire #12, to be wound in parallel instead, together, wound, with 5-7 turns #14 insulated type for higher crossover volts.   (The 90 degrees regular S1R type wind would stifle some of the transfer volts). This then, would have core steel long screw
underneath for better magnetic induction effect.
19. The engine selected should have EGR  valve or EGR added with adjustable valve to obtain the embedded Nitrogen from exhaust which allows smoother running engine.
20. Spark plug changed to one with same reach length, mm size, and with no internal resistor as an "R". A comparable R type as a Champion brand, can be put in vise with torch heated top screw cap removed , so as resistor is removed and replaced with copper wire segment #12. Now as zero ohms spark plug/ racing plug. This now allows current to pass through.
 21. Briggs Brand used riding mower engine, 8-20HP can have alternator ring removed and changed for higher amps output, such as dual yellow wires type or dual black wires type, and also changed flywheel so as the underneath magnets are large instead of the small type. See photos Ebay. Start engine with power supply, then recharge battery with ring alternator.or underneath car alternator added on.  Nathren and the Georgia shop technicians ran mower engine on just alternator without battery connected. Battery was used for circuit initial power only and the starter motor,  then completely removed. The Briggs 18hp  was self running on Briggs alternator only at a lower RPM.
See again the S1R9A9M9  (2) YouTube videos by Nathren and son. ,
« Last Edit: April 27, 2024, 06:17:00 am by russrHHO »