Author Topic: My new approach  (Read 62545 times)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2023, 08:48:16 am »
What if the pll just helps to get the frequency right while we change circuit parameters to maximize voltage… I mean if the frequency is maintained correctly but the circuit components are not yet tuned to it…

Or in resume to match the electrical resonance to the water physical vibration resonance
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 23:57:37 pm by sebosfato »

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Self explanatory
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2023, 01:40:36 am »
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Re: My new approach
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2023, 21:55:31 pm »
I found that the whole water bath could be a great resonant cavity with Milion Q factor…

I wonder if positioning a stainless steel disk at the right position inside and having the tube cell in the middles would reduce this Q factor to a tunable  value also… the tubes must also be at a certain position to make that the magnetic field and electric field can create maximum effect on the ions as much as the pressure wave… I believe that if the water bath is closed the amount of pressure that can be modulated there under the water is gigantic… also a tapered cap would reduce this Q factor some…

So far as I understood there are modes of vibration associated with the radius and others with the length

So a powerful transducer can maybe cause a very high power resonance or maybe even the cells of pulsed with enough voltage as to have movement of ions…

I think the pll may be useful here letting a very narrow bandwidth and using the pot to scan while the scanning is acting

I imagine that at the correct pressure  plus voltage applied it may cause unexpected results…

The magnetic field could be increased adding a short circuit on the end of the tubes somehow

I mean the higher is the magnetic field circling around as the two tubes form like a 1 turn the higher will be the effect of the pressure wave. So ideally to enhance this field a coil could be wound toroidally on the tubes this connected on the ends of the tubes this will make all the current form a magnetic field that is like toroidal within the water gap… stronger at the start for obvious reasons…

So I though maybe a capacitor coube be added too to increase the magnetic field even further… and than make it all resonate at same resonant frequency of the water bath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meyer somewhere wrote that the resonance must match the wavelength of the movement of ions or something…

I think this is the case… no one though about make the water bath sing like a closed box speaker… being the cells the transducer

I found a pll implementation using arduino very instructive I guess may be useful

A transducer would also be very nice to test the sound and perhaps to cause the excitation

I wonder if this was all that was needed all this time… to simply close the fucking cell fill it up to the limit and make a bomb of it kkk


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Thinking about geometry
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2023, 22:05:54 pm »
The ideal match I guess would be to have the water channel circumference equal to the length… this would create two modes at same frequency…

I builded my audio mixing studio In a room that is 3x3x3 meters and sound not so good because there are a set of frequencies that amplify because of the room size… a good room should be 3x4x5 for example this way there are more resonant ffrequencies reducing or distributing the ability of the room of amplify to other frequencieszzz


In the case of the tube the gap is kind of bidimensional since the gap is much smaller than the length but could be a multiple of that too thinking in this terms of acoustic design

What im saying is that during all this time I never looked it like this…

Using ultrasound is not new but enclosing the cell and placing at the right spot and doing all this at resonance and all is …


If we are able to excite this circular mode than a magnetic field around the cell would also be useful!!

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Re: Self explanatory
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2023, 11:38:25 am »
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I liked the video, Fabio.
I know that we dont so often ping pong anymore but i wanted to give you a big compliment with the chatgpt results. I had planned to give it also an attempt with that.
It looks that this software is helping.

But it will not give you the whole solution on a plate. That 1165hz for example, i am sure that hundreds of our brother have run thru that frequency on their tubes...
Plse go on and i will follow your research. If i can help, i will do.

again: good stuff!!! :)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2023, 17:54:11 pm »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2023, 22:12:59 pm »
I’m glad you like the video! I came with this idea after seeing how this ultrasonic cleaning baths are builded and I imagined what if the water cell is a big bath..  after some chatting I remembered about the modes in the studio and bang.

I know many tried all the frequencies… however as I tried to explain, even the position of the cell matters to get the point of displacement vs pressure… also the probe need to be there to get the feedback right… also the correct power density applied to the electrodes may be necessary and also the unipolar transformer to make the magic happens… also the Q factor seems to be very high very very high… so without proper probing hardly anyone would be able to tune it… I had my cell to sing once full with potassium but I was not into it so I didn’t paid atention…

This led when turn on it mean that it disconnected the scanning circuit and connected the filter directly to the VCO of the pll… that mean that at this point it can track the frequency automatically…

What I’m questioning is to what this feedback is about! Meyer explicitly cited a ultrasonic pll patent! I read it dozens of times but never concluded that the whole water bath enclosed and full of water would be the resonant cavity…

If what I’m thinking is true than Meyer used a ultrasonic transducer as a sensor and perhaps one as impact

Maybe the second is not needed… the first could be a microphone like sensor I was describing the other day… like a condenser mic

If we could hit the other mode of vibration circular than an external magnetic field could be useful however I imagine it would be much higher frequency and it would require the cell to have at least one slot and very well aligned such as to form a wall that will allow the reflection… if there is nothing in there I guess it would nor resonate!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 03:58:18 am by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2023, 12:28:32 pm »
I made another question to it and the response was well than you get a resonant cavity!!!



Somehow Siri jumped the reading of the section where it says it’s a resonant cavity of the length is made equal to the diameter because it will have transverse modes of vibration…

I’m not sure how they changed the video or the reading of Siri to not read it!

Here is the response from the chat

Open sidebar
Resonance of Air Cylinder.


Fabio Tortorella
How thickness and length relates to the resonance of a air cylinder?

The resonance of an air cylinder depends on several factors, including its thickness and length. In general, the resonant frequency of an air cylinder is directly proportional to its length and inversely proportional to its thickness.

The resonant frequency of an air cylinder can be calculated using the formula:

f = (c/2π) x (1/L) x (A/A0)

where f is the resonant frequency, c is the speed of sound in air, L is the length of the cylinder, A is the cross-sectional area of the cylinder, and A0 is the cross-sectional area of the cylinder's neck or opening.

As you can see from the formula, the length of the cylinder is in the denominator of the equation, which means that as the length of the cylinder increases, the resonant frequency decreases. On the other hand, the thickness of the cylinder is accounted for in the cross-sectional area, which is in the numerator of the equation. Therefore, as the thickness of the cylinder increases, the resonant frequency also increases.

It's worth noting that the material and shape of the cylinder can also affect its resonant frequency, so the formula above provides only an approximation.



Fabio Tortorella
If the thickness is equal to the length does it matter?

If the thickness of an air cylinder is equal to its length, the resonant frequency of the cylinder may be affected in a different way compared to cylinders with different thickness and length ratios. In this case, the resonant frequency would be determined by other factors, such as the material and shape of the cylinder.

Generally speaking, cylinders with a length-to-thickness ratio close to one are more likely to exhibit transverse vibration modes, where the cylinder walls vibrate perpendicular to the cylinder axis. These modes are different from longitudinal modes, where the cylinder walls vibrate parallel to the cylinder axis.

In the case where the thickness is equal to the length, the cylinder is considered to be a resonant cavity, which can have complex resonant frequencies that depend on the shape and size of the cavity. The resonant frequency of the cavity can be determined by solving the wave equation for the cavity geometry, which involves taking into account the boundary conditions and the modes of vibration allowed in the cavity.


Therefore, in summary, when the thickness is equal to the length, the resonant frequency of an air cylinder can be more complex and may depend on other factors such as the shape and material of the cylinder.



Fabio Tortorella
If it was a box instead?

If we consider a rectangular box made of a material with uniform density and thickness, then its resonant frequency would depend on its dimensions, material properties, and boundary conditions.

In general, the resonant frequency of a rectangular box is determined by its fundamental modes of vibration, which depend on the length, width, and height of the box. The resonant frequency of a rectangular box can be calculated using the formula:

f = (1/2π) x sqrt(k/m) x sqrt((p/q)^2 + (q/r)^2 + (r/p)^2)

where f is the resonant frequency, k is the stiffness of the box, m is its mass, and p, q, and r are the lengths of the three sides of the box.

The resonant frequency of a box can also be affected by the boundary conditions, such as whether the box is open or closed. In general, an open box will have lower resonant frequencies than a closed box, as the open boundaries allow for greater energy dissipation and damping.

Therefore, the resonant frequency of a rectangular box will depend on its dimensions, material properties, and boundary conditions. A rectangular box can have multiple resonant frequencies, corresponding to different modes of vibration, and the resonant frequency can be determined through analysis and experimentation.




ChatGPT Feb 13 Version. Free Research Preview. Our goal is to make AI systems more natural and safe to interact with. Your feedback will help us improve.





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« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 02:51:21 am by sebosfato »