Author Topic: My new approach  (Read 62548 times)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #224 on: July 05, 2023, 08:20:33 am »
The capacitors has just arrived..

Time to think how I’m gonna wire it up

Good luck! Looking forward to yr tests... :)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #225 on: July 10, 2023, 13:29:00 pm »
Thanks bro!

I was remembering once again my early Vic experiments in Italy

And one interesting thing about that is that I found that the capacitance interaction between the coils and core change everything

For example using a single secondary would charge capacitors up to 200v but adding a 30 turns choke after diode it would charge till 2kv

I used to call this charge pump effect

But is actually indeed a kind of vector inversion

Adding a forces the second coil capacitance to get charged and when the field collapse the voltage of the choke sums with the capacitance

The electric field has a path to water and the voltage will be totally on water in this case even if just a brief moment

Until the capacitor start fighting the voltage and create a reverse field to stop the current

So the size of this capacitor may be important to tell how strong the coils will actually hit the water

Ideally the capacitor may be charged while the chokes also charged with current and hopefully when ckt open the chokes colapse causing a oscillation of much higher order

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #226 on: July 10, 2023, 15:14:48 pm »
The second point of view at it is from the perspective of the energy in the core

If no current flow at discharge a very high voltage is formed so I believe the chokes must have or a diode or a capacitor or both connected to the starts to be able to complete the electric field

Today I made a first test or my super dc power supply just to see if it would not blow 

Now I’m going to Simply wire the coil and capacitor in parallel and apply 200v pulses to it so it will be limited by 200v

A coil may be added in series to limit the current rise

Current equal force in terms of magnetic field and is 90degrees of maximum voltage

A multiphase system should be able to take more advantage of this force

According to Barbat patent and physics theory

A force applied at an angle of 90degree can  consume no work

Of course there still Lorentz force and that may not be the one in use

Imagine a hover craft for example the gravity holds it to ground but as the air flows it can be pushed all around with no effort

Water molecules likely are or may be held together in a similar manner by two planes so it may be useful to imagine in this situation for exercise purposes

Now if we want to take a carpet from ground we pull from the center or from the side?

Adding light seem to me like reducing the carpet size or increasing the air in the middle

Adding voltage is like pulling from center of the carpet

Adding voltage from inside is like adding a bubble in the middle to lift the carpet

Adding a magnetic field cause a shaking action

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #227 on: July 11, 2023, 02:20:12 am »
Stan say if you need a higher voltage you design a bigger one

A bigger one may mean thicker wire wider spacing between turns and lower capacitance

I think some sort of Litz wire would be desireabke for the high frequency discharge to have less resistance

I’m starting to think that perhaps Meyer was able to momentarily break the water by a mix of actions

First is polarization that is required to bring the molecules to a certain direction

Than he use the chokes as a manner to take the energy of the core together with a certain capacitance the water bath capacitance (foil on outside for example)

I have some prof of that working but didn’t get much over it

But mainly the idea is that the core energy will create a very high voltage on the chokes but they are both sending positive to the cell during the collapse

I already pointed in the past to the fact that Meyer used a potential formula

If the chokes has a higher inductance than the secondary for same turns while subjected to same pulsing filed it will have a different dirscharge characteristic

In a microwave for example there is a gap in the core and or they add iron in the secondary side so it get higher inductance without coupling that inductance so it create a distributed charge since the coil want to discharge the core energy but at same time by the action of the jogs it will want to fight a change in current

the bitoroid and such are examples…

It’s like adding an inductance in series with each turn basically

This could be done for example using a toroidal transformer for the primary and secondary than add more laminations around and than wind the chokes over it

This way the chokes catch the core energy from primary but has increased inductance reactance for the discharge

It would be a dual core transformer in a sense but part of the core is an added inductance per turn of the chokes…

If I just had some money I would buy the material to do it like I’m imagining

I could try with the ferrites toroidal I have thought

I have some of this very high permeability types may give interesting results with few turns

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #228 on: July 11, 2023, 02:38:08 am »
For example I have two toroids

One I wind the primary and secondary

Than put the other close to it and wind the chokes on both

Add a capacitor after the diode between the chokes

I think very few turns would be needed in that case but must work on low voltage high current input

Hope you get the idea

I don’t think bifilar is a good idea if a minimum voltage is to be maintained across the cell that is not proportional to the chokes difference only

At least some 5kv isolation would be desired and probably encapsulement or oil fill or water fill haha

I remember a picture of Stan holding a very huge toroidal coil seem to be air core

From this perspective the secondary of the Vic serves just to maintain polarization and cause a minimum to zero current flow during pulse on I believe just to be able to maintain the polarization of the electrodes than

The chokes will pick this current and energy of the core and discharge thru the capacitance to the cell

Having a difference in the chokes length will cause a voltage across the cell balancing it to the diffence of radius of the electrodes may maximize the voltage output since less current wil flow there

Is possible that this capacitance can be a plate inside the cell

The design of it will tell how much voltage will be there for a given charge

The thing is that in this manner pulling electrons from both electrodes is the only physical manner of disturbing the dielectric in the way Stan discribed and cause a voltage field without amp flowing

How much is needed to break the water?

How is it different than applying 40kv with a thin flyback?

Hell a lot

First that the chokes size and mass will tell how many charges will be momentarily displaced from the electrodes

Long story short

The thicker the wire the more charges available

The longer the wire the smaller is the electric field

I believe something like 1kv per turn may be achievable maybe more

« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 02:53:57 am by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #229 on: July 11, 2023, 03:51:32 am »
Here is a picture of what I’m talking about….

As you see the chokes can have a core of its own to increase the distributed inductance

They must have probably smaller turns than secondary

Water very very pure in this case …

The inductance of the chokes will restrict the current although they are non inductively added

Therefore acting as a charging choke coil inside the transformer

So any current flowing thru it will be accumulating power on its own core side in this example coming from secondary and at same time the cell is receiving negative potential on both electrodes

After when pulse collapses the voltage of the chokes will sum with the distributed energy and produce a positive pulse on the cell that will momentarily break the water volume that is polarized on the electrode

I believe this ability of the choke to discharge the first core along into itself inductance will provide enough charge separation to cause some interesting effects provided low capacitance and thick wires envolved

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #230 on: July 12, 2023, 06:30:21 am »
I just got my replacement 4.6" MnZn PC40 ferrite toroid. I'm finalizing my transformer design now, I'm going to maximize mutual inductance between primary and secondary, thereby maximizing the re-routing of their forces with the positive feedback loop. I'm also bifilar winding the chokes on the same core, I have worked out how to rephase them all to work in harmony...

Only thing I'm still deciding is whether to wrap the primary+secondary bifilar, or wrap the primary on top of the secondary. Basically bifilar would increase mutual induction, but primary on top of secondary would allow higher step-up with larger diameter primary wound on top of smaller diameter secondary.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 14:51:33 pm by Radiant_1 »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #231 on: July 12, 2023, 14:28:42 pm »
You may experience some spark on the primary if the cell get charged

I think is a good idea to test the bifilar coil but you may experience some sparks at very high voltage applied

I got it to spark even without being bifilar so is in my concern aways