Author Topic: My new approach  (Read 62533 times)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #184 on: June 20, 2023, 08:05:12 am »
Yeah me too I just interested in make it work whatever it takes… no competition too

I’m not sure if you read this from post from the beginning I came thru a lot of thinking to came to this conclusions

In terms of the ultrasonic idea the basis is simple

Water is like air able to transmit sound vibrations

However when you have a closed space it will resonate according to the size and shape

Calculating I found it’s in the scale of frequencies Stanley mention

The key is that water must act as a pump or transducer for it to work

In order to get the cell to convert energy from Kinect to electric it require a certain field configuration that is not easy to achieve at least not without something inside the cell

The water cel must be considered like a subwoofer for example or a ultrasonic welding transducer the ones that are driven in anti resonance mode

When you sum up this with the Q factor of the cavity it become possible to not only induce the vibrations and sustain but generate hydrogen as long as electric energy is converted

The way to go here in my view is to have a certain transducer to cause the effect and just extract the power and feedback at the transducer

Although it seem indeed possible the kind of fields and voltage output expected are not very high thought

I decided to go other way first as I have considered that it was the most complicated way of making the cell generate voltage and also expensive and I don’t have not much time nor money to go that direction yet

So I decided to simply induce the voltage into the cell directly and I believe is what horvath and others did if any to achieve that working as I described recently with direct feedback of the resonant tank and so on

There is few ways of getting in same spot

I don’t put my hand on fire for 99% of what Stan said nor John Quincy st Clair with his hydrogen generator

Whenever there is patents and money involved secrecy is more important for the involved than anything else so I think I did the best making physics university to get the science language and theory so I can see thru what Stan was doing and not what he was talking only!

I was not the best student indeed anyway it was enough to clear things up for me…

Can’t wait to see your tests! You plan to make some videos on your theory of operation so we can maybe understand little more?

I didn’t understand completely yet ..

« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 13:51:38 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #185 on: June 21, 2023, 02:02:08 am »
Talking now about what could be inside in between the gap of the tube cell to allow a coil magnetic field to provide correct alignment and drive water as a pump in up or down direction would be a rubber spiral must form a helical gap such as the water can form a channel that is perpendicular to the field…

That’s the only way I see if it working with the tubes directly…

This summed with a water volume above and below the water transducer or water fuel cell you get a resonant cavity that will resonate physically and electrically

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #186 on: June 21, 2023, 10:35:22 am »
For now I’m just focusing on the electrical part of the thing às getting current out of water instead putting current into the water is the goal seems to be the best approach to make it

resonate electrically to load the cell at same time it drive the cell electromagnetically in direct feedback

The hard part is just getting the cell assembled and get enough current and cells in series to have a working system

For example let’s say the system is capable of 100 amps per cell and you get 10 cells in series than this is equivalent to 1000 amps

I was thinking ways of shorting the cells between them selfs to discharge all this current without needing to pass thru the coil somehow

Structure is everything in this system

I believe this is where the electron extraction circuit enters

Shorting 100v 100amps is 10kw power as per stans words in New Zealand

So what if we prevent this amps from re enter the cel

I mean using like a grounded lamp that would emit electrons and ground them impeding them to go back to the cell since is an isolated system

I would use a flash lamp and try to make it happen all inside the cell if I were Stan of course thru a quartz tube or something and provide a ground to get rid of the electrons

Or if it is a heating element I would combine with the catalyst of the car to get use or it’s heat to suport the ionization or air exhaust

Basically what I’m saying is that the electrons must go somewhere and the ground or air is the only possible options in the case of standing still or moving appliances respectively.

Anyway what we know is that the resonant tank will have a bunch of energy in it

The way I see Meyer use of the scr and what really should do to me is

It will disconnect the resonant tank for a while when the voltage reach maximum and than it shorts the cell into itself but do it thru some sort of like I explained


Catholic tube

Old tube transistor

X-ray tube


And so on

Things that will aid to the process and or emit directly electrons from the ckt preventing to return to the cell

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #187 on: June 22, 2023, 01:23:16 am »
I just dropped the epoxy to seal the cell

Now is time to start testing it!

As the cell form a capacitor and inductor the first test is to find this self resonance if the cell

I’m going to place the oscilloscope at the cell and pulse it with dc from a coil

When the cell show ac it will be at resonance that’s the first step

The second will be to match this frequency with the coil and capacitor to correctly load the cell at the most advantageous frequency possible

The capacitors are going to arrive maybe next week so I hope to get all this done until then

In the way the cell is configured electromagnetically it should have a parallel resonance so at resonance the voltage should peak at the cell and the current go to minimum from the input in series…

I’m going to use very harsh chemicals to increase the conductivity like sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide so I hope to get up to at least 30 amps at those electrodes

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Revisiting the tech brief
« Reply #188 on: June 22, 2023, 10:22:50 am »
In the first sections of the tech brief Stan talk about a first resonant action

He place the equation of the impedance for the cell as being two resonant coils in series with the water

Along with this he says the diode act as a open switch during t2 and that he uses the collapse of the field

To momentarily dislodges the water electrons to instantly generate gas without amp influx

I did some test in the past with all coils in one core with this configuration but I didn’t made a great job

The field collapsing aka flyback pulse must open the circuit that create a discontinuity in the circuit forcing the chokes to discharge very quickly generating a very high voltage spike

This voltage is limited by the capacitance of the coils and to how fast the primary current is interrupted

Meyer had multiple coils and my best guess is that is to create a sequence of discharges

The distance between the dischages is small so they should summed in a big high voltage frequency burst

To decrease the capacitance of a coil it can be wind with more space between the turns

One thing occurred to me is that the coil could be used as a kind of reversed dielectric inside the tubes

He talk about reaching infinity of the voltage só lowest capacitance possible and higher resistance is what makes a coil discharge faster

He dont even consider the secondary reactance he just as it as R1 in the equation

Now comes the nice part

Back on 2016 I was working with my water coil and also with mr feedback transformer that has a 1inch thick coil shorted to itself that couple two cores and let me feedback the power from the second transformer into the first thru the load

What is nice about this is that the shorted coil actually allowed me to drop a lot of power in without burning components

Also there was hundreds of amps flowing at it so it work as a kind of resonance

The question is?

If the thick coil is a short circuit how was so much power being transfered?

It happens that the second core act an inductance in series but it depend on how the secondary is loaded

The first core had also a secondary that had less turns than the secondary on the second core and they were connected together in series with the load…

I think Stan may used the wiper arm as a kind of shorted turn but with resistive wire

He may have had a variable inductive resistor connected to the wiper arm to limit the current and speed up the discharge

Radiant 1 may be correct in his theory since he talked about pulse compression

The time a current will take to discharge in a coil depend on its resistance as Meyer says he wants maximum voltage

He places both coils in parallel or bifilar because in that way it will allow to discharge faster too

If they were summing in series it would take lot longer to discharge the coils

He states he is sending a high positive pulse to the cell and not allowing amps to flow

In my view this is equivalent to send a positive only pulse

And that lead me to another story

But before that the idea

When we send this positive pulse it will double on the coils if the coils are perfect in balance and coupled they should discharge at same time each one with opposite polarity

Now what if we can have a small delay on one of the pulses? I mean a pico second delay or something

Thats what the coil wiper arm may do changing the length could make this small difference

I’m not talking about phase really is a small delay and I believe this can be accomplished with the two cores coupled idea

Now the story

In the first year I started the university I placed that video on YouTube with the prototype and electronic music the prototype was in a bred bird inside the cap of my technics pickups and it was actually doing gas with very very pure water

But was so small amount and I was just so crazy I didn’t even get attention to it so much

But basically I was using a two tubes cell inside a thin acrylic cup and the cup had a copper foil on the outside and it was the ground

The thing generated a small gas very small but did

And water was filtered with polímero so it was very pure

I believed it generated by the interaction of the capacitance of the ground foil and the reversal of the voltage of the negative choke

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Water spinning
« Reply #189 on: June 22, 2023, 18:26:19 pm »
I ran some current on the cell

It consumed 3 amps for 38 volts for one set

The results is some very big bubbles on both electrodes

Also the water is clearly spinning the bubbles so there’s a real physical force going because of the magnetic field coming out of the core

Water has a polarization of its own so maybe the magnetic field and the kinetic heat of water is enough to cause movement converting the heat to movement in a direction if we place charges within this movement e energy should be converted theoretically

I’m just applying straight dc

The most interesting part is that I can draw an arc from the positive wire going to the cell but with the negative it won’t form an arc the dc is isolated so water is kind of indeed allowing electrons to be available at the positive side somehow

The arc can go up to some 8mm glowing yellow very interesting indeed

I can’t find an explanation for it yet

The dc is filtered by an old capacitor that may not be filtering much

The cell get very hot very fast

Now I’m going to connect the power supply to 240v source so it can go up to 76v

The water is purified with polymer filter and than adds few drops of battery solution probably sulfuric acid

Going to make a short video of it

Here it is

So in this video there’s 38v

If the gas production remain the same and air is forced thru this arc

It would generate ionized gas

If the electrons can go away somehow with the forced air flow this would leave the cell positively charged and it could be a way of measuring that

Positive in reference to ground

Another reason for that to happen would be if the gas leave the cell charged negatively

If the cell on the other hand become negative it mean the air is giving electrons to the cell

Or that the gases are coming out posivitively ionized

« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 19:24:18 pm by sebosfato »

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Water inductance
« Reply #190 on: June 22, 2023, 21:56:57 pm »
Raising the conductivity adding some more battery solution

Increased the amps and also the arc

I could get up to 8 amps per cell but much more is possible

With this configuration it’s generating lot of heat since I’m forcing the current in

Adding the core inside the coil got up to 300uh and closing from outside may Bring Up tô 1mh or so

So at around 100khz it will have 1000v with 6 amps flowing resulting in 25v output on the cell

With the 10nf capacitor

Ah and water was spinning maybe for another reason the gas bubbles coming thru the hole forced water thru the other holes making it twist but it was maybe only that for now…

Next test is apply a pulsed signal to one cell and try t evaluate the coupling between the cells…
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 22:13:57 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #191 on: June 24, 2023, 07:17:38 am »
One thing that I realized is that if we can make the inductance of the water cell higher than the capacitance reactance

Than the cell will behave more like an inductor and an inductor does what?

It will try to make current keep flowing after it start or it will make it hard to start also

When we work with very high voltages is known that an arc can be open to any isolated metallic of enought mass

So if you get two dc high voltages with positive up alternating between each other with a metallic plate as lead it will or should create arcs even if the diode wouldn’t allow current flow

So the cell has a resonant frequency where the capacitance and inductance reactances should be equal

Going over this will make it inductive

So basically the shorter the pulse sent to water the more likely is to the cell to reverse its voltage during the collapse of the field

If the cell reverse it’s voltage hydrogen will be generating where it’s positive output from the cell so it make cause at least half the effect I’m talking about