Author Topic: My new approach  (Read 62567 times)

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2023, 07:21:22 am »
It follows as predicted within the bandwidth

The precision is amazing when locked it mimics the precision of the cristal frequency generator…

The only problem is that the lock-in detector seems aways on even if the system is out of lock… although the led is little less bright

May need to change the capacitor

In the ultrasonic patent they use a window comparator instead of that lock-in logic and it makes sense…

Anyway it’s being enough off  to allow the scanning to modulate the frequency… and lock

The signal at the scanning get totally modulated when the lock is in going in and out

That may be because of I’m hardwiring from the opamp to the pin 9 without a resistor between and maybe a voltage follower may also help keep the ramp stable…

I’m using 100kohm 10nf for the filter and seem to low resistor also the damping resistor is 10kohm

For the amount of work involved I would charge at least 500 dollar for a unit of this analog pll

If anyone is interested I’m going to make the pcb professionally very soon to make everyone’s life easier

In the case anyone is interested let me know… 

The digital version is the same as there is the digital work programming and maintaining the program and Wi-Fi  updates till a working unity

Today i used it to test the following… so is just an example why you must have at least two frequency pll generators

One will help tune the other

The digital have plus  triangle and sine waves output… and is a digital version of the pll

The advantages are obvious.. for example a window comparator could be done digitally

The filter components are digital

So is just about changing parameters and save, and to not keep changing components anymore

Also has the frequency display in front and can be used as a counter for display the frequency of the analog ckt as well

Just add it as the feedback for example and Create a function

That way is possible to have a nice time working on this tech and also helping me be able to spend more and build more stuff

I’m spending 1000 dollars per month for living and maintaining the business so just as a comparison to see how much my time cost me

Is important people see the value is not only the components but the work done, the countless hours of research to know how to do, and also a dose of craziness to have keep this work for so long and lastly the components cost

It does not matter if you can buy the components if you can’t make it work because of the missing knowledge and effort

What I’m trying to say is that if some of this unities are sold even if I will spend some time building it to send… it will help me allowing few more days per month working at this instead of at my work that I need to pay the bills… at minimum will help keeping me focus on it a few more and also more energized to know someone is also working with me and depending on me to advance… that sense of responsibility is something that would helps me keep going

I fell too lonely on this…

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #121 on: May 02, 2023, 07:28:48 am »
The lock range works best when it’s in the middle of the scale

As explained before the lock range goes from like 1.1 to 3.9v or so therefore if the filter or pin 9 voltage goes off this range the lock is lost …

That mean that if. The off set can be used to drive it to the right spot… and it could be done digitally

Using microcontroller and window comparison so the off set can be automatically to bring the lock to the best condition

And also to have a double check if is or not locked in
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 08:41:19 am by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #123 on: May 03, 2023, 03:46:47 am »
Sold some products today and it got me inspires só tonight more work on it.. just took some serious coffee cup and I’m up to work

I use to sleep only 3 hours a day and still there’s no time to do all I want…

On the digital pll the gate will work by counting full cycles of positive and negative

I want to make its output bipolar to make possible to drive the two primaries of the unipolar transformer design

It can even go to more phases if later I want

Anyway the gate will count the pulses and cut for a time that is proportional to the number of pulses it stay off  In that manner the start will always be in phase since the gate frequency is derived from the pulse frequency so the on time is a count of pulses the off time must be a time proportional to n pulses…

The phase comparator routine will be responsible for that… doing all at once

I’m not sure if I’m using going to use that extra frequency generator chip to the pll part I’m going to test to see how it behaves to decide

Taking it out would make things simpler but lose some possible precision

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Mind the gap
« Reply #124 on: May 03, 2023, 05:29:12 am »
What John Quincy saint Clair double toroidal wormhole generator has to do with unipolar field

Well he uses one toroid inside the other and guess what happen in the gap between them if they are pulsed the way I described

It creates a region in space with dc potential

So I guess I just found another kind of geometry or identified better saying that would also make the unipolar waveform


Just a reminder of a good ckt to pulse very high power well protected… and very efficient

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Dangerous voltage indicator
« Reply #125 on: May 03, 2023, 06:25:53 am »
Tvs are like zener but for very high power and voltage… I had the idea os adding some leds to the tvs stages as to have a indicator of the voltage level… in that way I expect to not burn the igbts by high voltage while pumping the cell with power

I believe using very high resistance and a capacitor in parallel  and diode and resistance  in series may be possible to have the led to light if reach above 400 above 800 and above 1200v 

So I can observe with easy without having to monitor it otherwise

Do you know when a speaker reach its peak and a led lights up to prevent you to damage it? Well that’s the idea…



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Re: My new approach
« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2023, 20:32:22 pm »
Today I got the inside electrode hollow.. to test the differences…

It have 38mm long 7.4grams and 10.3 inside diameter so the wall have around  0.7mm because it has 1inch diameter

The question now is how to make the best electrical connections to it

Need to design in the 3d to make the holder and electrical connectors for both sides…

The skin effect now should act even more as there is much less body for the dc current to flow and so I expect the interaction of the dc and ripple to cause an electromagnetic field of good strength at the electrode nearby region


I as suspected the pll works like a pro it takes the cristal frequency and replicate with perfection

The system seem to work quite good except for the following

On Stan circuit from patent at least the filter is not connected to the pin 9 directly and so because of the cd4016 resistance it allow some modulation of the ramp signal…

I could clean this adding the filter capacitor in parallel with the pin 9

And I guess it may work much better in this way if the filter resistor come only thru the quad switch to it this way the scanning should perform and only when lock the pll start acting

The lock signal is not a very clean signal

I don’t know you but I don’t remember if this led goes fully of ever with Meyer ckt tell me please

The good way to do it could be a window comparator as I said before…

Or may trick it changing the capacitor position to be after the switch

I mean if the signal is not so clean the scanning circuit is switched in and out as the signal come in and that’s why I modulated the voltage instead of having a nice ramp

Basically the scanning is not even needed if in this condition as the pll takes over anyway changing randomly based on just the error…

Also added a 10k resistor to the demodulator output improved some stability

This change will make my circuit look like a monster

I was able to vary from 0.02hz and it follow already with precision of phase!

Can’t wait to get it to water! Unfortunately or fortunately I’m going to make a work today so I can’t keep on it for today this week I spend 5 days on it including the weekend and so I need to get back to business to keep it going…

Hope this info make sense

Make me know if it was useful for you

« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 13:17:36 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: My new approach
« Reply #127 on: May 06, 2023, 08:23:22 am »
The working of the pll is a little different than what I was remembering…

Maybe I never seeing this because my potentiometer was crappy

I found that the pll can adjust the phase with the offset multi turn 100k potentiometer when it locks in, the phase will depend on the offset so you can adjust or fine tune actually the frequency don’t change a cent only the phase from 0 to 270 degree apparently

I didn’t remember of seeing this effect before that’s because I was not limiting the bandwidth too

At this moment it lock within a range of 1khz so it go from like 1.1 v to 3.75v

So the off set is not only an off set is also the fine tune so is a very important button… I did well getting this kit with the knob…

Would be lovely to have an oscilloscope with more channels but two and ext sync can make a nice progress…

I’m considering if using the labview to acquire some data

It can measure frequency and plot current vs voltage providing the correct probing

For the current I use a 0.005 ohm resistor I believe it’s 3W or 5W so it may be able to hold up to 30amps

The voltage must have dividers too I don’t remember the limits of the module

If I remember well it was 30v for the voltage module

The only problem is the sample rate that is limited to 10khz our less maybe 1khz … so it’s not able to have a zoom view but it can plot the graphs with the power in impedance etc …

The frequency is measured with the counter module… to measure higher frequencies I used the output from the frequency divider from the pll so it can measure higher than 10khz

It’s just a plus in this moment so may not lose time with this for now…