Author Topic: Back to Basics  (Read 16094 times)

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2023, 13:00:13 pm »
Need to remember this is a variable circuit.  Need to start with low voltage and low frequency with the water, moving to high voltage and high frequency as more gases create"air".  From one side to the other, we want the most voltage and power across the cell.  Therefore, the source impedance cannot exceed the impedance of the cell.  Otherwise more current will flow across the cell. So the circuit must start low and continually be tuned accordingly until the result is achieved.

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2023, 02:34:28 am »
At resonance, the impedance of the circuit becomes purely resistive, and its value equals the resistance in the circuit. This results in the circuit being in a state of minimum impedance.

This is why impedance matching the water's resistivity to your coils is so important in order to maximize power transfer and minimize current flow through the WFC.

The water needs to be able to resist normal electrolysis by having an impedance just greater than or equal to the power source.

If the water impedance is slightly higher, then you can properly tune the choke coils to match resonance to the distinctively different capacitances of both sides of the water cell, due to differences in the cylindrical geometry, which results in the chokes having slightly different resistances.  This may also make up for the slight impedance difference between the water and the secondary.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 13:22:39 pm by timeshell »

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2023, 13:56:56 pm »
So, with keeping the above in mind, these are 2 critical design elements to keep in mind in the design of your circuit.

1.  Resonance.
2.  At resonance, the circuit is purely resistive and the water is a purely resistive element that must be impedance matched to the source 
Remember, all 3 coils will contribute to resistance at resonance and should be matched to the water impedance.

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2023, 15:48:31 pm »
Further, it's important to keep in mind that the water resistivity in your circuit will be also influenced by the number of cells (pipe pairs) and how much electrical leakage there is between your individual cells (pipe pairs).  Electrical leakage will reduce the sum of the resistivity of your cells (pipe pairs).  Better isolation of your cells (pipe pairs) should result in higher resistivity.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 17:20:23 pm by timeshell »

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2023, 17:49:37 pm »
Now, considering all this, let's re-examine what Mr Ronnie said 7 years ago:

https://open-source-energy.org/?PHPSESSID=bm6nh49ovnsc5b7ct68tu1n3ml;topic=2785.0

The time has come to tell my story how Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works. October the 23th 2016

First! I want to have a disclaimer statement. I Ronnie Walker will not be responsible for anyone that uses this information in this thread to create any type of voltage and current either high or low of either of the two. You take full responsibility of your own actions and the use of any information that is discussed in this thread. "High Voltage and Current can KILL You" This thread, and the post in this thread made by me or others, is for information use only.

Second! It is assumed that anyone that uses this information has at least the basic knowledge of electronics, formulas and equations. Therefor I will not be held responsible for anyone that uses this information, and can not get a Fuel Cell to work.
In other words DON'T BLAME ME!

Thanks,
Ronnie Walker (gpssonar)


Let's get started! (October 23, 2016)

Several years back I made the discovery how Stan was able to produce gas on demand for the second time. Like everyone else I keep throwing voltage to the water hoping to see it just fall apart into Hydrogen and Oxygen with no luck at all.
Like everyone else, with very little production of the two gases. (Due to Amp Leakage)

I came across a drawing in Stan's Tech Brief that clearly shows their is amp leakage in the cell. (Which I will Post below)
Like everyone else, I thought the resonant reaction Stan talked about, was on the water itself.
When in fact the resonate action will only take place when the water is removed from within the cells.
Then an only then will the two choke coils come together and interact with one another.
As long as there is water between the cells, the two choke coils will not interact with each other which will stop any resonance to occur between the two due to the dead short. (Water)

Stan states, that you must overcome the dead short condition before resonance will occur and allow the voltage to take over and do the work.
This is were everyone including me took this statement way out of context.
It dose not mean applying a high voltage to the water and it will just go away.
It means removing the water within the cells, which is a dead short condition in order to over come it.

So the question is how do we remove the dead short condition so the coils can interact with one another?
The answer is Amp leakage within the cell.
So how do we create this Amp leakage in the cell?
The answer is with the L1 Choke Inductive Reactance and the Cell Capacitance Reactance.
When you design the choke and the cell it has to meet certain criteria.
When you subtract the two from one another you don't want the math to come out to zero.
What you want is a ohm value left over. That ohm value is what is going to cause the Amp leakage within the cell.
This is where you get into voltage leading the current or voltage lagging the current, depending on if the net value of ohms is capacitive or inductive.

So in other words as the voltage increases so does the amp leakage.
At a certain point of increased voltage the water will be remove from the cell and will be replace with gas.
This is where the resonate reaction will occur between the two chokes and the voltage will take off to infinity and the amps will drop to nearly nothing. (Voltage taking over and doing the work). Since all coils are adding one another.

In the drawing I have colored it showing the water in blue and gas in yellow.
As you can see there is amp leakage that causes the water to be removed and replaced with gas or gasses.
Once this is achieved and only when this is achieve is when you will see a resonate condition take place to make Stan Meyers Water Fuel Gas on Demand.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 18:07:04 pm by timeshell »

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2023, 20:07:20 pm »
Yes i remember all this pretty well i tried talking to him and his team many times but he never showed it to me at least… so up for me those become only words…

it would be nice if it make sense but water will be push out of the cell in two cases if its pumped or if its exploded

steve can tell more about the power of exploding water and how dangerous it is..

to have high voltage say 2kv across 100 ohms you need 20 amps than it mean you need 40kw of power to keep it going

if we get a higher resistance by using purer water its possible to restrict the amps and get more voltage with reasonable power like 1 kw or so..

to get water out of the cell is also possible to get a cap on it to control the level based on the gas flow…

not sure what to believe recently i just imagine that there is much more than those tubes

when we get resistance on the coil side we get a voltage drop this voltage drop cancel the fields of the coils when current flow…

to get high current on water the coils must have a resistance much lower than water in my point of view..

the cell must be comparetively small to the coil

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2023, 20:12:16 pm »
Why are you talking about 20A??  The whole point of this project is to use pure voltage and low current.  The wire on the secondary would immediately melt with that much current.  It completely defeats the whole idea that this project is about.

Also, I said let's re-examine what he says.  I'm not sure if he knew completely what was going on, or the best way to explain it, but we can examine what his perceived results were and see how it applies to the actual circuit design.

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2023, 21:04:37 pm »
Why are you talking about 20A??  The whole point of this project is to use pure voltage and low current.  The wire on the secondary would immediately melt with that much current.  It completely defeats the whole idea that this project is about.

Also, I said let's re-examine what he says.  I'm not sure if he knew completely what was going on, or the best way to explain it, but we can examine what his perceived results were and see how it applies to the actual circuit design.

i just mean if water had 100ohm in that case likely 20amps would be needed to develop 2kv or so,,, i was interesting to read his words after some time…

I learned a lot from the tests i did with ronies ideas.. . not had the luck to grab what he was talking about… or maybe just dont made sense for me only..

if i make it work you can be sure there will be no hiding…