Retry N1001

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i reply.....but i must say that i lost you here in this topic.....
Sorry. But thats just me. Plse go on if you have the feeling to be in the right direction.

thanks for the reply Steve

I´m trying to use the principle behind the fuel cell

at the course i took about hydrogen fuel cell at the Institute of energy and Nuclear Research here at the university of são paulo,  the very first thing we learn is that when the hydrogen gas get in contact with the triple reaction phase comprising electrolyte and catalyser and electrode it will readily ionize liberating electrons on the electrode and transform into hydrogen positive ion that goes thru the electrolyte until it reach the oxygen to form water, recapturing the electron that made its way outside on the load circuit..

basically what i´m saying is that when we generate hydrogen by electrolysis is like charging a full capacitive battery since its a capacitor that leaks when the voltage pass above a threshold 1.23v this 1.23v dont come from the thermodynamics or other exotic explanation.. this voltage come from the fact that the negative electrode get electrostatic charged with the hydrogen since it will remain in the triple reaction phase until it has enough size to exit as a neutral bubble bringing away its electron. So the water capacitor is actually like a mini battery...  the capacitor will however be a capacitance relative to the water solution itself.. so the electrodes has a electrochemical capacitance relative to the solution this is the potential.. My theory would be that if the hydrogen is the responsible for the negative charge that creates this potential difference.. if we could force the hydrogen to touch also the anode.. it would neutralize the anode potential in relation to the other bringing it to a negative potential relative to the solution too, thereto the potential difference between them could be radically reduced...

water is already broken... there is free ions .. specially if we have salts or base or acid diluted in it.. so we dont really need to break any bonds.... the problem is to split the ions into useful components and bring outside ..   

I believe what i just said explain why meyer called it a water fuel cell , a water capacitor , and why he says that water has a electrical force that holds it


I could be totally wrong of course.. that why i´m trying to discuss about it , even if its about a so much specific knowledge....

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In attachment in the previous post you see the idea of using resistors to try to manipulate the potentials.. the idea would be to use a second circuit and perhaps be able to rise the potential of the cathodes to zero volts by external circuit

Right, you need a second circuit.  But it raises the frequency, not the potential.  The way it was explained at the chemistrystack forum is shattering the water molecule is the same as a soprano shattering a wine glass with her wavering voice.  Part of her sound is resonant, causing the glass to vibrate. Then the dissonant part of her sound shatters the vibration.

What Stan "said" was his VIC's sensor winding is quite a bit larger than needed for that purpose.  So use it as an alternate primary, with a higher frequency, due to its slightly smaller size.  The second, higher frequency, circuit is what he shows as the electron extraction circuit, giving the overall cycle a wavering frequency, because it switches to the smaller primary winding, then back.

PS:  If you want people to read your messages, then keep it short and simple.

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Hey yes sometimes i take the time to put to much detail.. but is in the hope someone help me find if i´m wrong... =) thanks for the input


https://mundoeducacao.bol.uol.com.br/quimica/eletrolise-agua.htm

in this website there is a table to identify the priority of discharge of anions and cations...

from it we can select the best possible electrolytes to use

using an acid or base will make the water ph change while using a salt will mantain the ph in the neutral region...

exx

sodium sulfate

sodium nitrate

calcium nitrate

potassium nitrate  etc

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I´m preparing a set up for testing

i have some 304 stainless steel electrodes coated with nickel and than with palladium over it ... and some regular 304 material electrodes too for testing

tomorow i´m going to buy potassium nitrate to test as electrolyte also sodium sulfate and compare between them

i dont want to use a hard base or acid with those electrodes since i did the electrochemical deposition myself and i´m not sure if its good enough to not peel off (i only made the palladium bath) the nickel coating was done by industry

the discs are circles cut by laser with a copper connector soldered with silver and than coat with nickel and than palladium to be precise.. 

i´m going to have a pure hydrogen being generated at a bottle with some  HCl and alluminum and will direct the tubing to the electrodes to test what happen when it reach one or the other electrode... bubbling the gas

i can test with copper too and pure palladium as i have an electrode for it...

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Today i´m testing some ideas

i generated some hydrogen on a plastic bottle such that i can press it and release some gas. the gas is not very pure since there was air inside the empty part of the bottle... the production is not very high too because i have aluminum and a diluted solution of HCl however the rate of production could be increased by adding acid. the problem is that it becomes pretty hot and may damage the plastic bottle and leak the acid and make a very bad accident.

i would like to have a kind of stainless steel pressure pan to modify it as a hydrogen generator... i think is the best idea i ever had kkkk

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I think the ss pressure pan is a very good idea.  I have a couple of pressure cookers - one for a gas dynamic laser, the other for some fusion spark tests.  Both are alumnium, so I've been holding off on the latter.  Your idea about the pressure pan may be the suggestion I need (for my own project).  Thanks for pointing out the alternative.

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Good to know! welcome my friend, i was thinking about it because of it can handle temperature and hold the gas at same time...  being it made of inox it can also be the anode or its connection..

yesterday i did some few experiments with my palladium electrode.. its very small but i could get some conclusions it costed more than 200 dollars only this 6 gram piece

i wish i could have two of it or one of pure platinum too but is even more expensive...

the palladium develops a negative voltage as i was expecting when bubbling hydrogen on water.. if the palladium is not totally immersed it don´t get full charged,, that may be because it may be also in contact with oxygen of air and so probably it was shorting the fuel cell ability of the electrode... it was measured in reference to a 304 electrode..

when it was full immerse the voltage arrived at -122mv the hydrogen was being bubbled on the water so i guess this was only due to the dissolved hydrogen

doing more tests today

it remind me something about the need of a fuel cell to use pure hydrogen ... if its not pure first it can contaminate or dope the catalyst and second if has oxygen it can react explosively

the leads of the multimeter must not touch water or the measures change...

i also measured if there is current between the electrodes.. some 2 ma between them

and i wonder what is it? 

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I was wondering since a long time i it would not be possible to use the electrons generated in a chemical reaction in some better manner since the low voltage imply a low power ability...

capacitors are a possible manner to get it i guess

to be able to discharge this electrons at a higher voltage i guess what is needed is to have two fuel cells on opposite side of a capacitor ir perhaps a coil and simply use the power of  the voltage across it to recover the electrons at a high power condition somehow and feedback in the circuit to make it self oscillating

the big question is how to do it

but i believe stan was talking about this in the new zealand video

imagine a capacitor or a coil that has a source of electrons on the negative side and sync for them on the positive side

perhaps we need to apply dc + ac and will obtain another ac to feedback in the input

meyer use high resistance wire for a reason.. i was thinking about it and the only reason i found is that it may be used somehow in parallel with some dc input so it needs the resistance in order to reject the dc and allow ac resistance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ8ct4md-8&list=PL57dae3IfH8RRy0SHi7BIr8sdosfEMxia