Author Topic: My Next VIC Design  (Read 3630 times)

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My Next VIC Design
« on: February 28, 2013, 15:45:42 pm »
Fine tuning in simulation, I have created parameters for my next VIC coils.  According to the attached specs, the delta between the electrodes of the WFC should reach as high as 1.1kV assuming that the resistance between the electrodes is 13.5M.

I have discovered that the inductance of the chokes is directly related to the inductance of the primary to a ratio between 1:500 to 1:600.  If the inductance of the primary is outside of this range then you will not get an optimal charge with the chokes.

Here are the parameters for my next circuit.  Please try for yourself in your simulators.

WFC is a subcircuit built with a 25.56nF cap and 13.5M resistor in parallel.
Chokes are 50mH.  Calculated to be 1819 turns of 24AWG on a bobbin 1.5" diameter, 2.25" long
Primary is 88uH.  Calculated to be 69 turns of 24AWG on a bobbin 1.5" diameter, 2.25" long
Secondary is 2000 turns.
Resonant frequency with above components calculated and tested in simulation to be 4.456kHz.
Choke to primary inductance ratio in this instance is 1:568.2

The above chokes assume that they are NOT wound bifilar.  If you wind bifilar, chokes would be 25mH instead of 50mH.  Corresponding number of turns would obviously have to change.

I have notes on comparable circuits with different choke to primary inductance ratios, but they all fall in the 1:500 to 1:600 range for optimal charging of the WFC with resistance.  Outside this range, the voltage drops dramatically from maximum.  I don't presently have a formula to calculate exactly the ratio but the inductance of the primary seems to have an effect on the resonance between the charging choke and the WFC.

See attached schematic.

TS

UPDATE:  I have discovered I can produce the same effect with a secondary of about 2000 turns.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 23:41:05 pm by timeshell »

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Re: My Next VIC Design
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 02:18:41 am »
what i can suggest is, forget about it

According to what i learned about how inductors and capacitors work, this is far too much turns... to reach anything in the water...

If water is a capacitor you must be able to charge it and with this impedance range you r getting over ultra low current... how can you charge a capacitor with no current ?

I think that i understood finally that in the end the meyer circuit is extremelly inteligent and thats what he patented at the end, his hard work over numbers...

The geniality is to provide a ciruit that sends pulses of extreeme intensity with a simple transistor and a couple of coils! KISS

simply

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Re: My Next VIC Design
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 03:09:19 am »
what i can suggest is, forget about it

According to what i learned about how inductors and capacitors work, this is far too much turns... to reach anything in the water...

If water is a capacitor you must be able to charge it and with this impedance range you r getting over ultra low current... how can you charge a capacitor with no current ?

I think that i understood finally that in the end the meyer circuit is extremelly inteligent and thats what he patented at the end, his hard work over numbers...

The geniality is to provide a ciruit that sends pulses of extreeme intensity with a simple transistor and a couple of coils! KISS

simply

I guess when someone builds one and demonstrates it we'll know for sure.  As it is for now, the inductance of the primary and the chokes is what I'm focusing on and trying to prove.  I'll try a smaller secondary for now just to see if I can can indeed get the voltage up.  Even with turns in a much lower range on th secondary I'm expecting to get a couple hundred volts as proof of concept.  I'll cetainly provide an update in the relatively near future.

TS

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Re: My Next VIC Design
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 14:47:33 pm »
One problem in the VIC is the tendency for the electrodes to have near equal charges.  The result is that even though you are applying a large charge to the cell, the potential difference still remains low.  The circuit needs to be tuned in a way to coax a larger potential difference between the electrodes.  Take a close look at the last schematic I posted, I'll  attach it again here.  Notice in the scope the entry for wfc.1-wfc.2.   It shows the potential difference across the electrodes.  This is what we need to shoot for in my opinion.  Here's why.

At resonance, or near resonance, the charge is bouncing back and forth the charge between the chokes.  As such, there is little to no time for the charge to actually build on the capacitor.  The inductance, capacitance and resonance must be tuned in such a way to induce a large potential difference between the electrodes. Otherwise, we just get stuck with a few volts on the cell.  And the gated pulse is absolutely necessary to make it work.  Take another look at my circuit.  Notice that I put a switch to bypass the gate pulse.  If you close that switch so that just the main pulse is operating, you will not get a charge higher than a few hundred volts.   I will post an image of that also.

I have gotten significantly better voltage spikes with my new coil, but I believe I need to fine tune it still. I am going to try building a different gated pulse generator also.  I having a feeling that the one I am using is  dampening the charge in an undesirable way somehow.

TS
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 18:34:59 pm by timeshell »

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Re: My Next VIC Design
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 08:17:45 am »
Fine tuning in simulation, I have created parameters for my next VIC coils.  According to the attached specs, the delta between the electrodes of the WFC should reach as high as 1.1kV assuming that the resistance between the electrodes is 13.5M.

I have discovered that the inductance of the chokes is directly related to the inductance of the primary to a ratio between 1:500 to 1:600.  If the inductance of the primary is outside of this range then you will not get an optimal charge with the chokes.

Here are the parameters for my next circuit.  Please try for yourself in your simulators.

WFC is a subcircuit built with a 25.56nF cap and 13.5M resistor in parallel.
Chokes are 50mH.  Calculated to be 1819 turns of 24AWG on a bobbin 1.5" diameter, 2.25" long
Primary is 88uH.  Calculated to be 69 turns of 24AWG on a bobbin 1.5" diameter, 2.25" long
Secondary is 2000 turns.
Resonant frequency with above components calculated and tested in simulation to be 4.456kHz.
Choke to primary inductance ratio in this instance is 1:568.2

The above chokes assume that they are NOT wound bifilar.  If you wind bifilar, chokes would be 25mH instead of 50mH.  Corresponding number of turns would obviously have to change.

I have notes on comparable circuits with different choke to primary inductance ratios, but they all fall in the 1:500 to 1:600 range for optimal charging of the WFC with resistance.  Outside this range, the voltage drops dramatically from maximum.  I don't presently have a formula to calculate exactly the ratio but the inductance of the primary seems to have an effect on the resonance between the charging choke and the WFC.

See attached schematic.

TS

UPDATE:  I have discovered I can produce the same effect with a secondary of about 2000 turns.

jp