Author Topic: Just trying to recreate the waveform  (Read 19783 times)

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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 11:55:03 am »
i can add this much, the primary windings of the alternator is smaller than the secondary windings, all it is - is a spinning transformer. even though the primary windings are smaller, the output is still stepped up. this is only true because the alternator spins and "the way the rotor magnifies the secondary".

But you have replicated the rotor spinning as i said, so now you get the same output "not using a driver motor to spin the alternator," but using electronics to pulse the transformers instead.

if you use the proper transformer i would not see why it would not be possible to drive the transformers input using the transformers output, "the alternator does it."   even if you fail to replicate the "perpetual like ideal" you can still send 3 phase harmonics to the circuit using a battery like you have been showing in your circuits.

it should be understood that when you drive 1 transformer you can not pulse it with 1 square wave, as i have said before under a oscilloscope using a pwm to pulse only 1 side of a transformer will output a capacitor discharge wave to the cell and not a sine discharge wave.

just so you are not lost, and i cant explain this sorry, but the alternator some way under the oscilloscope is square waves and not sine waves, me and stevie confirmed this. the top of the square waves has 3 phase harmonics. its unbelievable.


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 12:20:19 pm »
Thanks Hydro I will have a think about changing the pulse to a sine wave.

As to the transformers have you got any ideas on where to buy or if making what would be needed.
PM me if you would rather :-X

If not I will try and work it out.


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 12:35:40 pm »
well, you don't have to really use a sine wave to drive the transformer, but it would be best. you can use square waves, what i meant is you cant just drive only 1 side of the transformer, you have to drive both sides and this leads to more fets.

i think it would be good to start out at a 1:2 ratio, or atleast 1 to 1 1/2 as silly as it sounds. it would not be good to just jump right in there and try and step the voltage up more than 5 times, the higher the voltage at the output the less the amps, and without amps you cant perform work. the main thing is the output is somewhat greater than the input.

this circuit has never been built for this purpas, its at its baby stages if someone does decide to take on the responsibility of building it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 12:39:26 pm by hydrocars »


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2008, 13:29:43 pm »
I will give it a go as I have ordered the P-channels now, and can pick up other bits on my way home.

An other problem with the transformer is the frequency not being 50 - 60 hz but 3 kHz so stock iron core transformers are not a good option.
As a test I think I will have to go back to ferrite rings if I can find some nice big ones this time as the last one I wound took ages and was damn fiddly. ::)
Home made ferrite transformer example HERE
A few guys are talking about casting their own core shapes with resin and stuff mixed in.
Anyway lots to play with. :D

Some good info on AC theory HERE

Like this way to power your alternator if you can not get a motor.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 16:42:49 pm by oddball »

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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 19:21:57 pm »

There is my bike!!!!!! 8)


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 19:57:37 pm »

so to get harmonics, you have to FIND THE RIGHT FREQUENCY, then you have to DRIVE WITH THE PROPER Amplitude.

Hi Hydro ,
how is the right frequency found? In your previous posts you suggested spining alternator at 3000rpm. On what factors do you think this frequency should be matched to?


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 16:08:21 pm »
Hydrogenmask just PM’d me and put me straight on a few points which are important.

"If an alternator is spinning @3000rpm, then you would be spinning it @3000/60= 50 rotations per second.
If the alternator produces one pulse (a sinewave) per rotation then you will have 50hz sine waves
3 sinewaves shifted by 120deg entering the sixpack rectifier, all @50hz.
exiting the sixpack rectifier, is a dc ripple voltage with peaks @:

0 deg (+ve phase A)
60 deg (-ve phase B)
120 deg (+ve phase C)
180 deg (-ve phase A)
240 deg (+ve phase B)
300 deg (-ve phase C)
360 same as 0

therefore one can say that the ripple frequency is 50hz X 6 peaks = 300hz

correct me if I`m wrong


The last bit is because I suggested that one osc could be used to create the ripple frequency only but I got my maths way off  :-[

So this means that iron core transformers are back in the pot for 50Hz if you want to stay 3 phase or just play with one 300 Hz then maybe a ferrite core transformer but even at 300 Hz iron core are ok for audio etc.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 16:50:44 pm by oddball »


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Re: Just trying to recreate the waveform
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2008, 10:00:38 am »
As we are now looking at 3 phases (TRIPHASIC  ;D)
I thought why not have a play with an other idea, we know that series plate cell systems tend to like a sealed side casing as on the Bob Boyce and ZOOFFER cell style systems.

So I was thinking if we are playing with 3 frequencies why not apply them separately to the water as well.
Plate A could be stainless mesh.
As I am intending to experiment with P-channel FETs I am pulsing the positive and the negative is common.
For N-channel you need to turn things round so the 3 plates will be negatives.


Also when you make these series cells why not just use thin sheet packing foam at the sides of the cell to stop current leakage between plates, it will speed up cell production in that the machining/ routing of slots in the cell casing will not be required.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 10:49:08 am by oddball »