WFC VIC

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just a thought, if you build an inductor to match your resonant frequency of 10KHz, once production starts and the capacitance of your cell drops (due to more gas and less air in between plates) you will need to raise your frequency to match the lowered capacitance? would it not be a better idea to choose say 5Khz (or less) as your starting frequency?

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whoa wait a minute, that 1.9 uH, not 1.9 H, i am way off, what's going on here? *thinking brb*

... it's 97 mH without the core, any ideas?

1.95 H and 130 uF will resonate at 10 Hz, could 10 Hz be the gate frequency, while 10,000 Hz is the pulse frequency? in the patent he says 0.5 Hz gate frequency for that vic which sounds like an extremely low gate freq


say my vic has 6 H (2 from each choke and the secondary) then the inductive reactance at 10,000 Hz is

XL = 2piFL
                                                        = 2  x  3.141592653  x  10  kHz  x  6  H
                                                        = 4E+05 ohms                           (to 1 significant digit)
                                                        = 376,991 ohms                          

thats pretty huge, to restrict amps


http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Plate-Capacitor-Calculator.phtml
measured the cell without water, so just air, and it is 25 picoF
also, calculated with air, it is 25 picoF

calculated with dielectric constant of 80 gives 2100 picoF or 2 nF

to get a calculated 130 uF, it requires a dielectric constant of 5 million

so clearly there is a difference here some how

2 nF and 10kHz gives 126 mH for res

does anyone else have some measurements and calculations to compare?

assuming 2nF is in the right ballpark, and 2000 turns of 30 gage is in the right ballpark, and i get 97 mH without a core, and Stans core was tiny, then maybe my core provides too much increase in inductance, and with a smaller core i might be closer to the 126 mH value compared to 97 mH with air-core

so maybe, the numbers work, it's just knowing which numbers to work with

My 2 cents..
Use different meters and you will notice different readings.
I also had readings like uF, but during my tests i concluded that that could not be the truth.
Basically, i use for easy calculation a 1 till 10nF for one single Meyer tube.

Steve

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Hey Don, nice to see ya back...Thanks for the new pic of the 5 coil VIC. Ive been looking over it and I see that Stan used either a MUR1550 or MUR1560 diode between the Sec. and L1...also looks like the green resistor is a 2w-5w 20 ohm or 120 ohm resistor maybe used to limit the current in the primary...the two 220 ohm resistors which Im about 90% sure where connected on to the pickup coil leads, am I right about this Don? Also another thing about this coil, in one of Stan's international patents he says this type coils has a Pri:Sec ratio of 1:30, with the primary being 200 turns and Secondary being 1:10, L1/L2 being 1:10 each...with that being said, that would make the secondary 2,000 turns and L1/L2 also 2,000 turns each...with a total for Sec+L1+L2 = 6,000 turns total (1:30). This should give u a Positive high voltage on the output of the L1 coil and a Negative high voltage on the output of the L2 coil....btw Don me & Spencer have about got the main circuit values all worked out, just need to figure out a couple more resistor and capacitor values, but we have the IC's all down :-)

-Tony Woodside-

http://www.GlobalKast.com

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That's right Tony, also, the core is of ferromagnetic material and will act as a frequency doubler, so that should help in the 10kHz question using 5kHz as a base FR.

This paper appears in: PGMTT National Symposium Digest                                                                                                                                            
Issue Date: May 1961                                                                                                                                                                                                  
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/PGMTT.1961.1122355                                                                                                                                                                               
Date of Current Version:                                                                 06 januari 2003                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

"In experiments on frequency doubling using ferrite slabs in a   rectangular wave guide, planar ferrites consistently had much greater   conversion efficiency than isotropic ferrites. The principle results are   shown in Fig. 1. The geometry used is also shown in Fig. 1. The primary   frequency was in the range of 8.5 to 9.1 kilomegacycles. The reference   power level (0 db) was one watt peak power. The duty cycle was 10-4. The material properties are given in the appendix."

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1122355

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Dynodon , You said in your post that your coil set when in resonance only pulls 20 milliamps.And the resonance is @ 10khz. My question is:  20 milliamps pulls primary coil or pulls water capacitor? And other question do you check inductance of your primary , secondary and choke coils and can give it?
thank
siwa

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just a thought, if you build an inductor to match your resonant frequency of 10KHz, once production starts and the capacitance of your cell drops (due to more gas and less air in between plates) you will need to raise your frequency to match the lowered capacitance? would it not be a better idea to choose say 5Khz (or less) as your starting frequency?

Perhaps siwa is right and the 20ma or most if not all the power is used / fully converted to magnetic fields by the coils, so there is no energy available to flow to the WFC so perhaps a drop in capacitance doesn't matter.
What happens when the field collapses? Does the stored energy in the coils do flow to the WFC now?

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Tony,the diode was the MUR type that Stan gives the number to in his tech brief.Don't remember which one off hand.The resistors were across the feedback coil only.Not all the coil packs had that many resistors.There's no way you could get 2000 turns of 29 gauge wire on the chokes or secondary.I don't know trhe ratios,but I doubt that he used a 30:1 ratio.
 
My primary coil is pulling 20ma.My whole pulsing circuit pulls 160ma before pulsing coils.Then it goes to 180 at resonance.While tuning it's over 200ma.I'll take a look at my notes later on my coil specs.
Don

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Don thanks for your ansver. I be waiting for coils spec.


thanks
siwa