Author Topic: WFC VIC  (Read 290089 times)

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Re: resonant circuit values...
« Reply #240 on: March 08, 2011, 07:40:59 am »
my meter is a VC6243

I get 130 uF with rain water, measuring just one tube on my tubular array, 0.0625 gap

i'm just wondering what kind of inductance to look for, to target 10,000 hz resonance

do a google search for "ring core calculator" this program is very useful to find resonance based on any parameters like frequency and inductance to find cap or cap and ind. to find freq. res etc...

the menu bar at the top of the program has this helpful utility to find resonant circuit values!
hope this helps...

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #241 on: March 09, 2011, 03:20:43 am »
The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.
 
As for the NVR1550 diode,there is actually a MUR1550 and a MUR1560.The first is a 500 volt,and the second was a 600 volt.
 
Kali,as for your explaination of the voltage step up up 1:5 with 12 volts in and 60 volts out was a little confusing.But I believe I understand what you were getting at.
 
You are stating that if you apply 12 volts to the primary coil,with a step up ratio of 1:5 you will then get 60 volts out to the blocking diode.Now in my testing of my coils,I have a step up ratio of 1:10 or as I would put it 10:1.So if I apply 12 volts to my primary I should get 120 volts out of the secondary.Right?
 
Well when I test the output of my secondary without any load on it,I get a much greater step up than 10:1.I've seen several hundred volts.No just maybe that is what Stan is hoping for with his set up.Maybe because we are restricting amps with the choke coils that this high voltage from our secondary is able to stay high,because of the very low load.
 
Under normal step up coils we are appling loads to the secondary output which pulls the voltage down to the actual ratio of the steup.So just maybe with the chokes restricting the amps,we are able to keep this higher voltage than the stepup ratio produces.Maybe it has something to do with the coils all being on the same core that allows  this greater voltage to be produce.
 
Now again with my coil set up,of 100 turns primary,1000 turns secondary,and 2000 turns chokes,I have seen between 1kv-2kv at the cell.It it hasn't had any ill effect on the blocking diode.And my diode is the same rating as a MUR1560.
 
Thats some of my thoughts on this matter as I have seen it with my own testing.
Don

look at it this way... 1000 secondary plus 2000 choke 1 plus 2000 choke 2 equals 5000 turns since they are connected in series
therefore the 5000 / 100 primary = 50 to 1 ratio step up
therefore 12 volts in equals 600 volts out !
MUR 1560 !

 and maybe the 2 for 1 pulses makes the final voltage @ 1200 volts average!

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    • Global Kast : Water Fuel Cell Research
Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #242 on: March 10, 2011, 01:16:24 am »
Yea I referred to this is an earlier post about the VIC. Look at the excerpt from one his Patent 92007861 below. He's basically saying the Sec. = 10X Primary and the same for the chokes and then he's just combining them and saying 30:1 step-up.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/patent_92007861.PNG)
 

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #243 on: March 10, 2011, 04:16:18 am »
Tonny, the charging circuit eliminates the limitation of the ratio, Because you start to have what is called a current source... The voltage of the secondary will be high but the charging choke can let you charge the capaxitor up to 100kv even if is not this ratio between the primary and secondary, depends only on the losses..


I was thinking to buy a polipropilene tube to make the cell in it.. _This would allow very high voltage. Basically the capacitance of the cell must be greater than the self capacitance of the resonant coil...


 

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #244 on: March 10, 2011, 04:21:43 am »
Thank you Don! That will make it a lot easier to build this!

What about Figure 2: Gas feedback control circuit,
Figure 11: Digital Control Means, I think this is inside the laser accelerator?


Do you have any pictures of the cards inside that GMS unit?

Here is a better version of Stan's Figure 2 circuit
(he did some safety stuff with inverted optoschmitt inputs in case a led burnt out the engine wouldnt race... but this version simplifies that with only one multiplexor)
enjoy

It works!

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #245 on: March 10, 2011, 07:04:25 am »
the MUR 1560 is a 15 amp diode, 600 volt. do we need 15 amp diodes? any comments on that?

there is a MUR something with 1000 volts and 8 amps for $1.33 each, is 8 amps enough?

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #246 on: March 10, 2011, 07:16:46 am »
The high amperage rating is because you will have very high frequency and therefore the capacitance of the diode must discharge and will discharge in the diode itself, if your diode don't support the amperage of the discharges it will get too hot and blowout. I used 3 4007 diodes in parallel and work fine in the vic...

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #247 on: March 10, 2011, 16:45:44 pm »
Quote
I made the core out of a microwave transformer core..
IMHO this core is not really usable for this application, for the laminations are way too thick (as it's designed for 60Hz). You will get too much eddy currents at the proposed frequencies and therefore will have too many losses, which will result in a small q-factor.
As I already mentioned before: If you wanna take a laminated steel core, the laminations have to be thin. Just look at Stans steel-core: There the laminations were also thin. But I think also, that a Ferrite-core is probably a simpler solution. The main difference is, that the steel-core has much higher saturation values, but a smaller permeability, whereas for ferrite, this is usually the opposite (high permeability, low saturation)


Quote
How much energy in watts  per hour (or joules) needed to spend to convert 1 liter of water in gas? I am interested in the efficiency of the cell.
Ahh, BTW. I just remembered, that Stan himself calculated the efficiency of his early cell in the independent evaluation report. There he calculated something like an efficiency factor of 300 times (input vs output).

Quote
I used 3 4007 diodes in parallel and work fine in the vic...
I absolutely wouldn't recommend using any 1N400X in any power switching supply. They are intended mainly as rectifier diodes for mains applications (60Hz). Their switching time is about 1000 times slower than that of a MUR.
Why not using UF400X diodes, if money is short. They are also quite cheap, and much faster. Or did you already use the UF-types?


EDIT:

I finally found now some time to have another short look at the original VIC-board.
A few things are interesting.
First, it is really exactly the circuit from the patent (WO9207861).
Second. The designer of the board made a layout error. The primary driving circuit, as it is in the patent is correct. But the board layout is wrong. The two resistors for the first transistor are connected the wrong way around. Therefore Stan had to wire the VCO-Out directly to the correct resistor.

I already thought it very strange, that Stan added these dividers for the PLL-Signal in the patent circuit. As this wouldn't make any sense, to divide the signal here, as the pickup-signal and the driving signal have the same frequency. But as can be seen on the original board, he didn't use them. He just used them to divide the signal down for display on the LED, for nothing else...
One thing is still strange. Namely that he wired the neg of the primary over an RC-damper to the comparator input.  First I thought he wired it to the VCO-out, but it only looks like that on first sight (quite hard to differentiate the two blue wires).
Finally one could say, that today, one would really just replace almost the complete board by just one microcontroller. Only the Pickup-Signal, and some driving circuitry would be additionally needed. The driving of the primary one would most probably do with a FET and some special FET-driver-IC (much simpler, than this cascade of transistors).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 20:08:27 pm by Kali_ma_Amar »