Author Topic: VIC controller  (Read 24080 times)

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VIC controller
« on: November 19, 2009, 22:15:44 pm »
This section will be used to describe the frequency generator as I seen it and how I understand It to work.This post is also only for the resonant cell.

This section is not for any other circuit,or anyones stray ideas about PWM's.

Don

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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 22:58:07 pm »
This topic will start with the basic frequency generator that Stan talks about.

The generator can be devided up into two sections.
Primary and gated.This most people know.

The primary generator is actually in and a part of the scanning circuit.There is a means for manual adjustment,but for the most part, it was in the scanner.This scanner is set up to scan through a given range of frequencies.Stan talks about the range being from 0-10khz.This scanner will start at 0 and go up to 10khz,then back down to 0.As the scanning goes on,there is a phase lock loop that will detect and lock onto resonance.

Now this primary generator must have a 50% duty cycle.This doesn't need to be duty cycle adjustable.Just a clean square wave is all that is needed.Stans scanner did just that.

I got to see a video of Stans scanner doing just that.The video is among Stans belongings.I don't have this video,so don't ask.

If you are trying to use a Dave Lawton circuit,it's not going to work.It doesn't have a fixed 50% duty cycle.But don't worry,you can still make it work.You will need to just run the output signal of the 555 pin 3 through a decade counter wired up as a devide by 2.This will get you a good 50% all the time.

I'll go into the gated signal next then the scanning circuit after that.
To come soon.

Don

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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 01:50:54 am »
The gating signal used in this system is pretty straight forward.It has two main funtions.First it is needed to give the water time to recover from the seperating process.As the water comes apart,the dielectric properties of water breaks down and needs alittle time to recover to start the process over.

The second funtion of gating is used as a volume control.Once the resonance frequency is locked onto,the gating can now be used as a volume control to regulate the production rate of gasses.This is useful to generate only the amount of gas needed without having too much on hand.But also will allow enough gasses to be available on demand as well.

Stan's circuit for gating also had the ability to control the voltage going to the primary side of the vic coil.This is also a means to regulate production.This is all part of the gating signal.

Now this signal is being generated by using a 555 timer.This signal doesn't have a means for duty cyle adjustment or frequency.The signal is all generated by the inputs from alot of external sensors.Then it is all put together by logic, to generate the gate signal.

But for our own testing we can generate the gated signal the same way,but make it adjustable manually.We can use the same 555 timer with a pot for adjustment.Now this adjustment will change frequency and duty cycle at the same time.Stans system worked this same way.He explains that in his tech brief.As the signal is change the duty cycle follows up or down.This signal doesn't need to be as finely controlled as the primary signal.

Now I have been thinking about this gated signal lately.After seeing the signal generated by the variable plate cell controller,I feel that this signal isn't meant to just turn off the primary signal.I think that it is meant to be on with the primay at the same time.I think thie primary signal is riding on top of the gated signal.Thats how I see the plate cell working.This is something I'm going to experiment with soon.

So thats my thoughts about the gating and where I'm at with my search for the answers.
Don


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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 02:13:48 am »
Pm  me Dynodon  , I have just the thing for  your experiments .


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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2009, 00:53:45 am »
Now for the scanning circuit.
This circuit has two modes.First mode is the automatic scanning.The second is for manual adjusting.

The first mode uses a 4046 PLL chip with a feedback circuit to find and lock onto the resonance of the cell and inductors.The feedback circuit is in the form of a pickup coil on the vic transformer.This scanning circuit uses a 555 timer setup to generate a frequency from 0 up to 10khz or higher.There is a center pot adjust that will allow you to raise or lower the total range.This will help in tuning to the type of water you may use.Some water will need higher or lower frequencies.The signal generated from this 555 goes into the PLL circuit where it is then turned into the 50% duty cycle needed to pulse the primary coil.
That 50% duty cycle comes about by passing through a 4017 decade counter.

This scanning circuit then sweeps the frequency from low to high, then back to low again in search of a lock.The lock comes about when the signal generated from the feedback coil on the transformer,matches the generated signal out.Then the PLL locks and holds onto that frequency.

The gated signal is also entered into the PLL chip as well,and it is then added to the generated output to give you your gated signal to the cell.

Thats about as simple as an explanation as I can give on how this circuit works.
This whole circuit was made up of two seperate units.The one I posted earlier of the scanning cards is one panel.It was mounted in the right rear corner of the buggy by the engine.The other one is the GMS controller that was mounted on the dash panel by the windshield.

I will try to locate the pics for these two units and add them here.

Thats it for now
Don

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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2009, 01:32:46 am »
I understand the main frequency part , at least I understand that he is searching  for the high point from the pickup . That is a parameter that you can play with .

But for the gating  , what is the sensing parameter , what is he sensing to know what gating time is good or not ?

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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2009, 02:43:01 am »
Sorry to be a stick in the mud gents, but what voltage are you aiming for??? i see a lot about frequency and gating but not a lot about the actual voltage. Reason for asking is different things need to be taken into account for certain levels of voltage...

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Re: VIC controller
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 02:00:31 am »
Dankie,the gating is generated by inputs from the laser distributor(engine speed),cell pressure,throttle position.These are all run through a logic circuit,and it generates the gating frequency.It just keeps the cell generating gasses faster than needed.

CrazyEwok,the voltage needed for seperation is between 1kv and 2kv.Stan states that at 1kv the water molecule starts to elongate.So we know we need more than that.And in some of his memos,he mention 2kv.
Don