Author Topic: Ok lets find the capacitance of our wfc?  (Read 12769 times)

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Ok lets find the capacitance of our wfc?
« on: June 23, 2012, 19:13:27 pm »
1° You need an LRC meter to determine the inductance, and a frequency meter to determine the frequency

2° construct a simple frequency generator and an H bridge

3° put a coil a resistor an amp meter and the water capacitor in series as the load, and a frequency metter and voltmeter across the inductor or water.

4° Change the frequency to find where the current and voltage is maximum.

5° calculate from the reactances equations or from the frequency equation, the capacitance, since you have now the inductance and the frequency. and you also know XL=XC at resonance, being XL= 2*pi*L*F the capacitance become C=1/(2*PI*F*XC)

Wasn't it easy?

« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 13:46:52 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Ok lets find the capacitance of our wfc?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 20:46:40 pm »
You all should try it.

There are another methods to determine the Q factor also from the relation between applied voltage and taking a voltage measurement of the tank components.

From my understanding the cell will limit the Q factor, so the higher the frequency the smaller is the capacitiwe reactance, the Q factor for a parallel load acros the component is Q=R/XC    so the lower is xc the higher the Q factor.

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Re: Ok lets find the capacitance of our wfc?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 20:52:42 pm »
Make an exel sheet with your measurements ...

Plot graphics with your results...

This will make you understand more about what you are doing.

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Water resonance finally found!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 07:18:49 am »
I just did the test.

I used a 4mh inductor it had half flyback core 1ohm 22awg wire. The resonance happened at the frequency 3,7khz

The capacitance was surprisingly 462nf 100times greater than the calculated value. the XL = 92 ohms

Is consiste of a pair of tubes one inside the other having a gap of only 0,6mm about 4 inches long... and 1cm diameter..  They are inside a fiberglass epoxy resin "encapsulated"... inside a glass of water...

I used filtered water, filtered with resin grain filter. (deionized)

I got a 50volt reading when i pushed the system, across the inductor. I forgot to measure across the water. However i would guess is the same... It was drawing about 1 amp. This tells me that the Q was very law but resonance still clearly happened.

Its pretty shocking!!! 

It was pretty easy to conduct the experiment i tried first a 50mh coil than 12mh than 140mh and my readings was that the higher the frequency the lower was the voltage across the capacitor, that was because the frequency of my generator wasn't so low, than i decided to try this smaller coil with only half core than the frequency became to low... i changed the capacitor of the 555 timer and tweeked the knobs and its done.

I took only 20 min to find the resonance.


Hope this inspires you.

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Re: Ok lets find the capacitance of our wfc?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 08:16:59 am »
I was asking myself if anyone here have ever done this before to determine the capacitance and resonance frequency... ?

I thought of it many times but never realized it because i didn't knew how to construct an H bridge.

Now its clear to me why stan wanted a small size water capacitor... and the gap not too small. The higher the frequency the better ... it seems...




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Re: Water resonance finally found!
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 09:32:04 am »
I just did the test.

I used a 4mh inductor it had half flyback core 1ohm 22awg wire. The resonance happened at the frequency 3,7khz

The capacitance was surprisingly 462nf 100times greater than the calculated value. the XL = 92 ohms

Is consiste of a pair of tubes one inside the other having a gap of only 0,6mm about 4 inches long... and 1cm diameter..  They are inside a fiberglass epoxy resin "encapsulated"... inside a glass of water...

I used filtered water, filtered with resin grain filter. (deionized)

I got a 50volt reading when i pushed the system, across the inductor. I forgot to measure across the water. However i would guess is the same... It was drawing about 1 amp. This tells me that the Q was very law but resonance still clearly happened.

Its pretty shocking!!! 

It was pretty easy to conduct the experiment i tried first a 50mh coil than 12mh than 140mh and my readings was that the higher the frequency the lower was the voltage across the capacitor, that was because the frequency of my generator wasn't so low, than i decided to try this smaller coil with only half core than the frequency became to low... i changed the capacitor of the 555 timer and tweeked the knobs and its done.

I took only 20 min to find the resonance.


Hope this inspires you.

Fantastic!
Congratulations, Fabio.
Ac resonance is probably step 1, is it.
Now you have more info to play with :-)

Steve

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Water resonance finally found!
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 13:11:55 pm »
Thanks bro.

Really its a good thing, because it changes all the parameters...

This at least tells us that the wfc capacitance calculator and those who are claiming you need to use it for finding the resonant frequency are a big scam.

This also allow us to design a resonant coil based on the water resonance for a desired frequency... Because now we know how to test and find it.

This will allow me to make a further study of the dielectric properties of water as function of applied vt and f. I want now to vary the frequency carefully and try to find a variation on the Q factor of the circuit. Stan said that at 26v his tube resonated at 5khz and would be the frequency related to the back and forth movement of the ions thru the water...

Now i'm pretty sure why meyer used the variable spacing wfc cell as well as the variable inductor... For me theres still another hidden components. 

What i also thought is that maybe those all in one vics are kind of non sense. because the ultrahigh inductance values would drop the resonant frequency maybe to 10hz...

I will try to find the sweet spot taking out the inductor and inputing the square wave directly at the water- where the current drops would the the sweet spot.

sebos


 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 13:36:39 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Water resonance finally found!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 18:32:33 pm »

What i also thought is that maybe those all in one vics are kind of non sense. because the ultrahigh inductance values would drop the resonant frequency maybe to 10hz...

sebos

Or maybe not.  The reported thiknes of the core laminat wuld sa the max freq iz 200hz of the all in 1 vic