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Projects by members => Projects by members => Dynodon => Topic started by: Dynodon on December 29, 2011, 02:24:59 am

Title: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 02:24:59 am
Here's a picture of the pulses going to my cell with the 8XA circuit.
What do you guys think? Does it look close?
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 02:36:51 am
good work! pretty much like mine...
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 17:48:59 pm
You are tricking us again, Don Gable.... ;)
That wave looks too perfect... :D

Steve
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 18:22:35 pm
Hey guys, where is the probe connected to produce the waveform that you show?  much obliged?

kb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 19:01:40 pm
No tricks Steve.That is the wave form taken right at my cell on the positive side.
I'm using my frequency generator to send pulses into a 7404 hex inverter,through a 220 ohm resistor.That then goes to the opto coupler.
Then the opto pulses the gate on the scr.

The output of the scr goes into my chokes of 300 turns of 25 gauge wire on a pair of "U" cores.The voltage comes from a full rectified variac.This is exactly as Stans schematic.

Now the key point to make here is how you hook up your scope and the frequency you pulse the gate at.Very simple to do.

First thing you need to know is that those unipolar pulses are the 120hz pulses coming from the rectified variac.The frequency you need to pulse the gate at must be lower than 120hz.If you pulse the gate higher than 120 hz,then you will be just adding pulses onto the 120 hz pulses.Then it will just create fuzzy 120 hz pulses.

The gating pulses are just turning off the 120 hz pulses from the variac.Then you see the wave form I show.

Now the most important thing you need to do is isolate the scopes ground from the variac.You can't hook up a scope probe ground to the variac,because it will short out the variac.

To do this I had to use a isolated transformer.It's just a 1:1 ratio.But I had to modify the transformers earth ground.I removed the ground from the units case and seperated the ground from the recepticle as well.If you have any ground from your scope probe going to earth ground,it will short out.Once the grounds are isolated,you will then see the same signal I have.

Now you might be able to get away with cutting off the ground lug and the scopes power cord and get the same effect,I don't know.But once you remove the short problem,then you can hook right across the cell with the probe and ground,and get a perfect signal.

Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2011, 19:11:20 pm
My transformer is simply doubling the frequency, doubling the pulses with those two diodes i showed in the other thread... i read this pulses like right after the diodes arrows and ground. I'm having problems with the diodes i burned more than 10 high quality diodes..

I had to use the earth ground cause there were sparks coming back into the primary.. i made a spark gap in parallel with each resonant coil...

when the diode opens the sound of the transformer changes and it makes no longer the unipolar pulses...
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 01:05:07 am
I just posted a video of this setup on Youtube.The link is below.Let me know how you like it,
Enjoy,
 Don

Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 03:32:02 am
Yea to get the pulses to be identical to Stan's drawing, you need to pulse at 20Hz. This will give you the three 120Hz pulses and then a gate.
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 05:51:42 am
Awesome video Don, Very informative!

I like the meows in the background too! 
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 11:22:49 am
Hi Don,

Thanks for the video. Looks great!
Question:
How high are your peaks in Vpp?
Meaning, you rectifiy the 20VAC to certain unregulated DC voltage. Are your VPP at the cell higher then the basic unregulated dc peaks?

Steve

Ps.
I also have a cat....meaning, she has me as hear servant....
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 11:31:20 am
Another question, Don:

Can you check the following thing for me, please?
Measure very carefull till how low the voltage drops at the cell during pulse off periode with the choke coils in place and without the choke coils.........

Appreciated!

Steve
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 16:34:25 pm
Steve, The voltage at the cell is the same as the applied.There is no increase of voltage with the chokes.I think that is do to the cell not being pulsed at a resonance frequency to match the chokes with the cell.I doubt that I would be able to check the voltage during the off pulse with my fluke meter,because the refresh rate of the meter can't cycle that fast.I'll try though.If you look at the scope shot,it returns to 0 volts each time.

Yes Tony if I adjust the frequency,you can get it down to the three pulse signal like in the schematic.I never checked the frequency.

I didn't notice my wifes cat in the background,she's about 6 months old and she in heat for the first time,so she does that all day.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 16:40:28 pm
I think you need to resonate those coils somehow. This is what allows the potential to rise... it need at least 20kv or more... Maybe the tx5 could be connected only between ground and the negative side of the cell and the secondary connected directly into the cell passing only thru the tx4 coil and the diode. This would allow some leakage thru the cell that may be somewhat needed in order to resonate the coils. the secondary however must be isolated from ground or will spark. 

Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 18:40:02 pm
Seb,

My signal goes away when I try the two diode setup as you described and drew.  I wound 1000' of 28 gauge in six well insulated individual layers with an iron wire primary single layer of iron wire on top of it all.  With my 1000' 28 gauge chokes added it reaches 9KV PTP with little gas.  I'll try to run at 20hz and gate to observe any new stuff and see if I can duplicate Don and Tony's output signal. 

It appears that the required kv voltage talked about by many for success and Don's 20hz approach while being true to the drawing are in conflict.

kb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 19:18:25 pm
kickbackemf,
  You need to remember that the 8xa circuit is only meant to show amp restriction.It's not a resonant system and it's not meant to put out high voltage.

They are two different systems.The vic coil arrangement came about later when resonance was found.

The 8xa still uses amps to pull apart the water.It is believed that you will need over 1kv to do it with voltage only.

The 8xa only shows that if you can restrict the amps,it will allow more voltage to be applied to the cell.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 19:20:43 pm
my primary have 50 turns and secondary 250 flyback core with a 0.1mm gap... with he two diodes and a small capacitor in parallel with each diode.... just to keep it from blowing... applying from 100hz up to 50khz.... gating from 20hz up to 5khz... is not the 8xa circuit is the pll with the transformer and chokes in other core...
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 19:45:41 pm
Dynodon:

My current set up is the five coil variation of stan's with the secondary and primary combined on one bobbin.  I use ferrite for the rectangular core.  This morning I reached 10.2kv ptp at 525hz with my 3 inch cell gapped at .5mm.  Still little gas in RO water.  I'm having fun learning and your comments are welcomed.  I too enjoyed your video.

kb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 19:57:52 pm
 I've had a question about the 8xa for some time now, maybe you guys can answer; just for an example, imagine the 8xa was supplying 100volts and 2 amps to the cell, would the output be the same as 2 amp and 2volts to the cell? What I'm really asking is are you guys producing any gas from this large voltage input? or is this process extremely wasteful?

Ps. I've started on my own version of this set up, what I have noticed is the speed at which the gas streams out of the cell, I've never seen the gas move so fast in any of my electrolysis experiments except if I used a pump to force it out.

Thanks
Dave
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 20:54:43 pm
Dave,

100 volts at 2 amps equals 200 watts of power.

2 volts at 2 amps equals 4 watts of power

What do you think?

Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 21:15:19 pm
Don, it's easy to see that there is a large power difference but it's voltage which should not produce more hho under normal electrolysis. I'm sure you know how average electrolysis works. It's electron transfer. Do you understand what I mean? In electrolysis, electron flow through the circuit is the only thing that matters plus the 1.5 volts it takes. So simply having a high voltage at the same amperage level should not change anything, gas production would be the same, you would just be wasting a lot of power with the extra voltage being applied, unless something else is happening here than just amp flow being restricted.

 2 amps at 100 volts is a lot different than 100 amps at 2 volts when dealing with faraday electrolysis, even though they are the same wattage
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 21:55:16 pm
Dave,your first sentence says it all,"under normal electrolysis".We're not trying to do normal electrolysis with high voltage.In order for Stans high voltage to work ,we will need over 1kv-1.5kv.

But no one has been able to prove it yet.

I do know how normal electrolysis works,and yes the extra voltage will only cause the water to heat up.Wasted wattage.But thats not what we're after here.

This 8xa circuit isn't meant to produce very high voltage,only to prove amp restriction.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 22:09:06 pm
yes I understand, what I was asking was for a comparison between the 8xa and average electrolysis output. I wasn't sure if the the 8xa at the voltage most people are achieving had any different affect. Thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 22:47:31 pm
another interesting thread :)

the question that comes to mind is:
With electrolyte based electrolysis booster cells, once the required strength of electrolyte was found then the gap between the plates or tubes was then worked on to suit the setup, that way as i have seen when an ideal space was used with a n electrolyte saturated water low voltage and low current provided enough to give some desired efects with fuel economy and emmission reduction whilst the cell stayed cool and clean.

So with the cells being used on the 8xa designs, i am wondering is there an ideal length of tube to be used(also considering plate occlusion) and gap that is ideal for non electrolysis designs that may help with an agreed base to work from so that the characteristics of the cell can be measured and experiments taken from there.?
Am wondering this because if others are winding their own chokes to varying characteristic cells(area of metal and gap and volume of water), there is a thread on the permitivity of water; might it be of use of there is a calculation or agreed dimension of tube set for the purposes of you all being able to obtain a desired result and improve from there?

one more thought; meyers multi tube setup has the electrical connections at the base of the tube set - does that affect the desired effect being sought after and does the conductivity of s/s tubes affect this?

cheers
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2011, 23:53:15 pm
All,

I have compared gas output with staight dc from the rectified variac against a square wave pulsed four inch torroid wound 8xa style.  Watt for watt there is little gas production difference between the two at most all frequencies.

I am trying to get to 1.5kv and see very little gas action at 1kv so my experiments continue.  I reach 1kv with a iron wire primary wound over a multi-layer secondary on the same bobbin with the 1.2h chokes arranged as per meyer's vic drawings.  The whole circuit pulls .5 to 1 amp at 12 volts. 

Perhaps this cannot be done at 1.5kv with a cell sitting in pure water but requires a completely insulated tube set up.  My center tube is filled and my outer tube is thickly covered with plumbers goop adhesive.

kb

Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 01:13:16 am
kickbackemf,
If your using the vic coil setup,it's not going to work if you have 2kv.That vic setup when in resonance,only outputs ac to the cell.It needs to create the unipolar pulses like my pictures and video in this post.It will never work no matter how high the voltage gets.I've already been there and done that.Thats why I'm going back to the begining.Now that I know the pulses can be created,I will try to get the voltage up,and try to make the unipolar pulses  variable and not fixed.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 03:04:30 am
Dynodon,

As I suspected. I'll be following and trying to duplicate the waveform as well.  Do you believe that an scr switch is required and that a superfast mosfet is a waste of time? 

Thanks again.

kb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 03:19:20 am
Kickback, Stan said you can swap out the scr for a transistor, I'll be trying that soon
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 04:21:04 am
Don, when you had Stan's stuff did you get the vic cards
and vic's producing gas with the resonant cavity?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 15:51:48 pm
kickbackemf,

A mosfet can work,but you will run into a problem if the mosfet is a direct replacement component for the scr.Because,as you increase the voltage with the variac,it also increases the voltage and current to the scr's gate.An scr can handle alot of voltage and current to the gate  for triggering,but a mosfet can't work with alot of voltage change or current.

Plus you will be pushing alot of voltage and current through the mofet and it will get very hot,even if it's rated for it.

HMS-776,

I had the VIC circuit system at my house twice.The first time was without the GMS control panel.I had to bypass parts of the systems to get the VIC cards to turn on.Then once I had them working I was able to get them to lock onto resonance.But there was never any gas being produced.When looking at the scope shots of the resonance signals,it looked alot like what we all have seen with our ouw setups.The only difference was that the scanner would lock onto the third harmonic of the signal.It never locked onto the first or primary one.By this third harmonic I mean,it would lock onto a pulse train of three pulses.The first pulse would be the largest,the second would a little smaller and the third would be the smallest,and then it would keep repeating.

The second time I had the GMS control system.I still had to bypass alot ot the rest of the systems to get it to work as well.Because the whole setup had to be wired into the buggy to work with the gas pedal,distributor and a few other things.Plus I didn't have the original wiring harness to hook it al up with.But this time I was able to get the gating part to work,but it still did the same as before.

Now there may still have been something else that needed to be hooked up that I didn't have .Or there may have been something Stan had removed to keep it from working that we don't know about ,because he never published it to prevent anyone from replicating it.

So that's about all I can say about it.I couldn't get it to work.Too much of the system had to be put into a bypas mode,that may have kept it from working,or something was still missing that we don't know about.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 16:36:23 pm
Dynodon:

I know what you mean about a direct replacment in the circuit of the scr with a mosfet.   What I thought was that by using an npn mosfet on the negative side of the circuit after the coils and not before the coils with an scr as meyer draws it that it would not be able to give the waveform we are looking to duplicate.    I guess, I'll find out as I pulse down at 20hz.  ???  what a hobby...

I'll throw a scr with optocoupler together for s & g's. 

kb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2011, 19:30:29 pm

I had the VIC circuit system at my house twice.The first time was without the GMS control panel.I had to bypass parts of the systems to get the VIC cards to turn on.Then once I had them working I was able to get them to lock onto resonance.But there was never any gas being produced.When looking at the scope shots of the resonance signals,it looked alot like what we all have seen with our ouw setups.The only difference was that the scanner would lock onto the third harmonic of the signal.It never locked onto the first or primary one.By this third harmonic I mean,it would lock onto a pulse train of three pulses.The first pulse would be the largest,the second would a little smaller and the third would be the smallest,and then it would keep repeating.

The second time I had the GMS control system.I still had to bypass alot ot the rest of the systems to get it to work as well.Because the whole setup had to be wired into the buggy to work with the gas pedal,distributor and a few other things.Plus I didn't have the original wiring harness to hook it al up with.But this time I was able to get the gating part to work,but it still did the same as before.

Now there may still have been something else that needed to be hooked up that I didn't have .Or there may have been something Stan had removed to keep it from working that we don't know about ,because he never published it to prevent anyone from replicating it.

So that's about all I can say about it.I couldn't get it to work.Too much of the system had to be put into a bypas mode,that may have kept it from working,or something was still missing that we don't know about.
Don

Don, did you have the water pump hooked up so water was flowing in the cell? If so did you get any specs so far as flow rate off the pump?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2012, 00:30:39 am
No I did not have the water pump in the system when I was testing.The pump I did see there would have been for the injector system.It was nothing more than a standard fuel injection pump.It was just mounted inside a delrin block.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2012, 00:20:23 am
Don, what kind of pressure does the pump put out, is it around 125 psi or is it much higher like 15,000 psi? Fuel pump or fuel injection pump?

Is this pump you are talking about pumping water through the cell or through the injectors?

When i look on wikipedia for fuel injection pump it says around 15,00 psi

The Tech Brief says 125 psi for the injectors, but the cell must be in the 50 psi range?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2012, 01:34:08 am
I'm just referring to a auto fuel pump for electronic fuel injection that every late model car uses.Most fuel injection systems operate around 40-60 psi.The water injectors Stan uses called for 125 psi.A pump from a late model car can't go that high.You would need another type.My race pump in my car will do that kind of pressure.It was a $600 Weldon Race pump.

I think that the resonant cell may have only been around 15psi.It wouldn't need to be much higher than that.Just enough to cause the water to circulate back to the tank.

Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2012, 03:33:15 am

I had the VIC circuit system at my house twice.The first time was without the GMS control panel.I had to bypass parts of the systems to get the VIC cards to turn on.Then once I had them working I was able to get them to lock onto resonance.But there was never any gas being produced.When looking at the scope shots of the resonance signals,it looked alot like what we all have seen with our ouw setups.The only difference was that the scanner would lock onto the third harmonic of the signal.It never locked onto the first or primary one.By this third harmonic I mean,it would lock onto a pulse train of three pulses.The first pulse would be the largest,the second would a little smaller and the third would be the smallest,and then it would keep repeating.

The second time I had the GMS control system.I still had to bypass alot ot the rest of the systems to get it to work as well.Because the whole setup had to be wired into the buggy to work with the gas pedal,distributor and a few other things.Plus I didn't have the original wiring harness to hook it al up with.But this time I was able to get the gating part to work,but it still did the same as before.

Now there may still have been something else that needed to be hooked up that I didn't have .Or there may have been something Stan had removed to keep it from working that we don't know about ,because he never published it to prevent anyone from replicating it.

So that's about all I can say about it.I couldn't get it to work.Too much of the system had to be put into a bypas mode,that may have kept it from working,or something was still missing that we don't know about.
Don

So Don this is what the pulses looked like and where did you see these pulses at? Primary Coil? Secondary Coil?

(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VICpulses.png)
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2012, 04:46:55 am
I bet it was similar to bobs where the amplitude of each harmonic got smaller .I want to think also that the oscillating part of the wave form removes the oxide barrier the stainless steel has making it easier to get at its electrons mayb
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2012, 15:38:11 pm
Tony,
No, it looks more like this scope shot.
Don 
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2012, 03:21:35 am
Thank for that scope shot Don.

Here's my 8XA Circuit set to 20Hz and as you can see it looks identical to Stan's drawings.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/IMG10014.jpg)

Here's the 8XA Circuit
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/IMG10016.jpg)
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2012, 04:56:08 am
Tony, is there a difference in power consumption or gas production at this frequency?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2012, 09:18:03 am
What are you using for chokes?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 29, 2012, 19:59:24 pm
what equivalent can i use instead of a SCR diode?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 29, 2012, 20:14:23 pm
You can use a transistor but you may run into limitations
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 29, 2012, 20:42:32 pm
thanks dave,what tipe of transistor?mosfet?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 29, 2012, 22:10:48 pm
I used an S8035K SCR. works fine.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/S8035K/?qs=zHiv0nsVGmq5QK0Mo7rZSB8JdfWac87Q

Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 29, 2012, 22:49:36 pm
Thanks verry much Aurgus,i will search it and buy it if i find it
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2012, 22:35:06 pm
vic conections
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2012, 12:35:32 pm
Thank for that scope shot Don.

Here's my 8XA Circuit set to 20Hz and as you can see it looks identical to Stan's drawings.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/IMG10014.jpg)

Here's the 8XA Circuit
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/IMG10016.jpg)
Tony did you modify the AC freq from 60hz/120hz to 20hz?
how do you done this?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2012, 20:39:00 pm
The AC signal is 60Hz and when you connect it through the full wave bridge rectifier it then becomes 120Hz, I then set the pulse frequency from the frequency generator to 20Hz and that will give u this signal.
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2012, 21:21:57 pm
yes,but at the begining of this thread you said that don was just pulsing 120hz
(on/off by the scr) what i mean is that the carrier freq(dc signal from the variac will be always 120hz)
Another q:how do you manage to get resonance with the 8xa,without the gating and a single pot and no one else on this forum manage that...there must be somethingelse....thanks for reply tony
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2012, 00:23:05 am
adys15, The 20 hz is the gating frequency.If you run the gating faster than 120 hz,you won't see the the signal posted above.
The 8xa IS NOT A RESONANCE CIRCUIT!!!!
You can not get resonance from this set up.The 8xa is only a proof of amp restricting.The resonant system is the small white cavity with the 11 tube sets.
Don
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2012, 00:54:09 am
Thanks Don,you say it is not a resonant circuit but Tony says that he got 400v on the cell from 10v derived from his variac,and the 8xa uses almost the same circuit as the freq gen used later on,except for the optocoupler and except the transformer,but all in all he pulses hv at the cell trough the chokes...so...why is not resonant circuit?
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2012, 01:00:39 am
The way that I got resonance with the 8XA circuit was by using pretty big chokes. One choke was around 3.2H and the other was around 3.8H. Using 10-12 voltages input, I got a peak-to-peak voltage of just over 800v @ ~2.4kHz
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2012, 12:38:12 pm
Thanks for the reply Tony!Tony you hid resonance with the 8xa,allright,but what about the ''pulsed transformer''(4,936,961),did you got resonance with that?and what about the vic transormer i'v seen on you website(u-core setup)?I see a lot of  people sayng that they got almost 1000v and when they hoked to the cell they left with 10v,i incounter this problem to....water resists...that's the problem....how do you manage to get arount that problem...?
I want to go back to basics and built 4,936,961 setup...it is worth it?or Stan's is just playng around and don't give the corect specs?
Another q:if you pulse the primary of a tr.don;t you get a distorted signal at the sec./chockes?(i don't have a scope )a spike signal?
I have the lawton circuit and the 9xb that you posted on the forum,which is best?
Can you give the most smaler/simpler transformer design to play with?and hopelly hit a sort of resonance:)) if you want/can...
Sorry for the long question list...I hope i don't bored you do death?:D
Respect!!!
 
Title: Re: My 8XA circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2016, 18:18:04 pm
Tony,
No, it looks more like this scope shot.
Don

What does this pic look like ? It doesn't pull up for me ?
Can someone reshare that picture plz?