### Author Topic: Understanding And Creating  (Read 24189 times)

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2008, 22:24:07 pm »
Hi Wouter,

With normal electrolysis, it seems that a plate cell, like Kumaran is using is the best solution.
He has now an efficiency of 94%!!
For your info, he got that with the alternator as powersource!!!!!!

My WFC is not efficient at this moment. Its main purpose is to be impressive for demonstrations.
The question why is proberly because the watercontainer is too small......

br
Steve

#### hydro

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2008, 23:16:38 pm »
Stevie

Your videos are very impressive!
But on 26 December you poseted that the
Second test with alternator  gave a gasoutput 0.32 liter per minute.

Using a series cell with close to Faraday production would give 1 LPM @ roughly 15 amps @ 13.8V.

Thus the gas production with the alternator seems to be way less than Faraday, yet you say the setup is self sustaining?
What am I missing?

Wouter

self sustaining is when you take the alternators output and feed it back into its input so it can power itself without the use of any battery source. i'm not sure what all stevie has going on over there....

me and stevie both learned that you may get 1 ltr per min and we may get 0.30 ltr per min, the difference is in the hydrogen, it seems to be much better. the real test on my big cell has yet to come.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 05:27:01 am by hydrocars »

#### kumaran

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2008, 04:22:01 am »
Hi guys,

Yes, I'm getting 94% on brute force. But I still believe pulse driven cell will give much higher gas production for the same amount of power. Why?

First, using brute force method just apply power to the cell. The gas flows out as normal. Then cut off power to cell. Observe the cell will still produce gas for sometime after power cut off. Why? The cell now becomes like water capacitor where the discharge happens between plates through electrolyte. This cause the gas flows out until the plates got discharge fully. This just my theory so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

If use pulse method, during pulse on the gas flows out as normal and during pulse off plate still produce gas. If the pulse hit resonance, the cell should produce very much higher gas production.

For me, why I go for brute force method is because it's easy to setup without much hassel. I hate to deal with electronic problems and its expensive to maintain. If apply same amount of power for brute force and pulse mehod, I would say pulse method sure winner.

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2008, 20:22:21 pm »
self sustaining is when you take the alternators output and feed it back into its input so it can power itself without the use of any battery source. i'm not sure what all stevie has going on over there....

me and stevie both learned that you may get 1 ltr per min and we may get 0.30 ltr per min, the difference is in the hydrogen, it seems to be much better. the real test on my big cell has yet to come.
Hydro / Stevie

I understand that it is the "quality" of the gas that makes the difference.
I (and I am sure others on this thread as well) would love to replicate this selfsustaining setup.
Would you mind to provide us with a list of the steps to be followed for a successful replication?

Thank you in advance!

Wouter

#### hydro

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2008, 21:12:17 pm »
yes passion1, i can do that. i would rather wait until i got my new fuel cell hooked up. also, i will upgrade the circuit from a beta version. this circuit works like it is, but there is some bugs that i need to work out for the ones that don't understand how to work it.

each cell is diff, it is up the the user to find the harmonic or sweet spot, you know when you hit it because hydroxy starts to flow and the load on the alternator is not critical with my 6 cell setup.

right now i am waiting on my fets to get in, i already have a wye alternator waiting. this time there will be no bugs in the circuit, thats why the circuit i posted is the beta version, the new and final circuit is yet to come.

since i am the only one working on this, it takes time to get the proper schematic to the public.

it would help to have someone to work with so they can create me a pdf, i can do it myself, but its hard to do everything.

for the guy's waiting on this circuit to be released, go ahead and get your single 555 timer circuit ready for installing a mosfet later "the mosfet should always be external", get you a wye alternator, delta is ok but i found that a small geo,swift,sprint,suzuki alternator is the best you can possibly get, you leave the diodes intact. have your cells waiting, the rest will come as soon as i can get it to you.

also you can thank chasson for helping out on this circuit as he has donated to help further our research as well as one other member that wishes to be left unknown.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 21:25:14 pm by hydrocars »

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2008, 10:35:33 am »
yes passion1, i can do that. i would rather wait until i got my new fuel cell hooked up. also, i will upgrade the circuit from a beta version. this circuit works like it is, but there is some bugs that i need to work out for the ones that don't understand how to work it.

each cell is diff, it is up the the user to find the harmonic or sweet spot, you know when you hit it because hydroxy starts to flow and the load on the alternator is not critical with my 6 cell setup.

Hydro

That's excellent! I cannot wait for you to hook up your new cell!!
In the meantime I will get the parts.....

E-mail me:  woutero at mweb dot co dot za
and I will draw your final circuit using LiveWire/PCBWizard software if you want.

Wouter
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 10:37:34 am by passion1 »

#### hydro

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2008, 11:02:58 am »
sounds nice passion, i would love that, but i don't have a laser printer nor have i ever made a pcb. that sucks!

i would like to start making pcb's.

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##### Re: Understanding And Creating
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2008, 21:06:23 pm »
Today I built the alternator system.

setup:
240v ac motor turning a Y alternator @3800rpm - 400hz sinewaves produced on oscilloscope then rectified.

results:
with 5 volt straight dc on rotor                       -    output on cell from rectifier is 5volt rippling dc    -    good gas generation
with pulsed dc on rotor(using lawton PWD)    -    output on cell from rectifier is 5volt rippling dc (no squarewave as i hoped for)  -  good gas generation

selfsustaining setup as shown on this site but using lawton PWM for control -
I found that if the capacitor on the rotor is not connected notting will happen. what value should this cap be?
I had some problems with this setup.
a)Current on the rotor stays too low even with 100% duty cycle only 0.8Amp is consumed on the rotor.
b)I cannot get the squarewave with harmonics as shown by hydro and stevie. I am thinking that this may be due to the IRF640 mosfet that I am using on the pwm.. It seems that it is not switching ON and OFF contineuity to the cell as it should do.

HyroMask