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Electrolysis => How to make HHO cells more efficient => Topic started by: massive on October 05, 2015, 03:34:45 am

Title: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 03:34:45 am
some people will c r i n g e reading the title......

Stefan started the thread and then let it rip . "31 x more effective" is based on the info in the article/paper by the Japanese researchers

Les Banki rolled up and designed a straight forward circuit for people to use to do their own research into nano pulse .

He calculated "Only 8 times faraday" based on the info provided in the articla/paper by the japanese researches.

soon enough , Les Banki series cell design   (totally different subject)   was brought up as a subject by other posters , clouding the actual thread subject. NANO PULSE ELECTROLYSIS

He then left to go to O.U.R ... where they had a go at him there!!

no where did Les Banki say it put out 8 times faraday , the circuit he put up was for research simply because the article has NO circuit available

The SITh static induction thyristor is a normally ON device and it requires a circuit to switch it OFF , so its functioning in reverse of a normal device.

EG; RS1600PA40T1  ,part number .   these things are out there some where but they dont seem to be available at the moment.....

A reed switch is a normally ON component , which got me thinking of the Ford Model T coil which functions as a solenoid opening the reed switch , the mag field pulls the reed open , causing the field to collapse ..... cycle repeats.

IES inductive energy storage , the circuit in the japanese article is representitive only , it shows a thyristor with the gate triggered by a diode , which reprents a negative signal to switch the thyristor OFF!

The other thing which I havent seen before is intentional use of a flyback transformer / swinging choke .

I have never seen a SITh before but it is interesting device , I would like to substitute it but thats a head scratcher

As for a reed switch , it requires a magnetic pole to function
A SITh .....?  combined with a FBT ....which does NOT have a magnetic pole , it can only have an air gap which is a mag pole ,but is burried under the windings

so how a SITh inter acts is a mystery to me at the moment.
looking at the diagram in the japanese article it appears the SITh is self triggered by the FBT it is switching , which is clever . does the FBT reach saturation before switching or is it triggered by an isolated search coil ?  I dont know

I play around with TV FBT to the point of destruction for a bit of fun, the concept of a FBT function is top notch , there is no winding ratio on a FBT , it is energy transfer from primary circuit to secondary circuit , the quiker the Pri is switched the higher the volts on the Sec. The out put is already DC , they have diodes built into them , AC coils are hard to find usually old B/W tv.

So from that view I see it interesting that the japanese have a FBT

What the actual japanese researchers true circuit diagram looks like would be interesting .

Les Banki , final circuit version 8 is straight forward and is a good design , schmitt 4584 , PLL 4046 , 4420 driver, 1500v diodes and mosfet , hyperfast components
Les theory of 1:1 ratio is also interesting , usually filters on computers ,stereos etc use 1:1 . As a FBT it will still put out HV spikes

Also SITh are used in pulse power , so where the hell do they get theirs?  it might be industrial only or military

anyway if anyone hasnt seen the japanese article its in the link
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 04:44:43 am
Yeah it is rather interesting you can not obtain those scr's.  Its kind of like me saying that I figured out all of Meyers secrets because I have this 1000 dollar golden staff that you can't buy.   Sound familiar!

There is another way to accomplish what those studies set out to do.
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 08:13:13 am
try search for a SITh , they arent available any where

I reakon its safe to say every person on this site has pulsed directly across water and probably most of the folk who only read.

what I forgot to mention is the switched reluctance of the core of the coil , ferromagnetic material of any hydrogen based research is RARELY even mentioned yet it is the basis of adams motor , harold aspden motor , jones motor and quite likely stan meyers table top alternator , all relative to the air gap.

ohms equivalence emf = i x r  , mmf = flux x reluctance
an ideal switch has no R when on , no i when off

simply switching a transistor of any type , on and off is random , that SITh is triggered by some thing and timed relative to the core material
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 11:09:53 am
My 2 cents in the pulsed electrolysis systems are that the cell is getting a little bitmore efficient as the helmholz layers are removed, so more current can flow with the same voltage.
The biggest gain however, is that the type of gas changes.
You will create brownsgas.
And that contains more monotic hydrogen.
Like 3 percent.
More bang for yr money.
And for the ney sayers, i tried it myself with my motorbike engine.
Pulsed means max 240hz.
50 or 60 hz works also fine.
Also less cells with a higher voltage then 2 volt per cell works better.
Better for the engine.
Not better efficiency according to electrolysis laws...

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 14:13:51 pm
my one cent is that this static induction tiristor plays the same as my pulsing circuit... allowing the pulse to collapse///
my question is how fast the core can really collapse its field?

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 15:19:38 pm
A totall of 3 cents  :)

Almost enough for yr hv probe  :D
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 16:03:08 pm
A totall of 3 cents  :)

Almost enough for yr hv probe  :D

oh man we will get there...

i bought some tyristors few months ago to try this idea but didn't used yet because probably it would burn up without the correct protection too... so i thought whats the point..

it only block the peak that the transistor would receive,,, the idea of the sythyristor is that this voltage is blocked into its structure.. without current flow or minor theoretically..

theoretically for the field to collapse fast cols needs  a high resistance than the charge path...

thats why i have no diode shorting my primary...

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 05, 2015, 22:30:44 pm

George Wiseman is hardly mentioned with monatomic hydrogen but hes the guy who brought out the browns gas book . Quite likely what got Les Banki started , no evidence of that just going by the time line 1995.

monatomic was the main focus

the thing with a FBT is that the 2 circuits are isolated from each other , that CANT be achieved by a standard tranformer. once Pri is off , the sec is the V source . when Pri is on , the sec is off and the battery on Pri is the V source

the SITh is reverse of a standard thyriator . when circuit is on, the SITh is already at full current , it needs to be switched off , being thyristor it is capable of fast switching

ferrites come with data sheets , they have saturation info etc .
Les Banki chose 240 khz , the data sheet shows the ETD is good for 200khz , its .5mm gapped . this avoids saturation

heres a home made tester

the japanese article has no circuit given , there is no mention how to hook up the SITh 
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 08, 2015, 05:55:49 am

Had another read on O.U.R , a few cries for Les to show evidence of a motor running on gas .
back in 1998 there was a VHS video of Les series cell rumbling away , he had it hooked up to a generator which by memory ran by a needle and valve .  I cant remember all the details all that mattered to me was that the video was showing a motor running on gas.
why Les hasnt mentioned that video I dont know , maybe film was owned by Barry Hilton or Ian hacon
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 08, 2015, 23:08:21 pm
sorry massive i think you dont understood well the sithyristor block the voltage but it can only do that if you first stop the current it wont triger alone...
Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 09, 2015, 00:25:42 am

have you looked at the japanese circuit ? it is only representation , not actual circuit. 

The SITh is normally ON device , the gate is to turn it OFF, it is not a standard SCR .  it is triggered by  a negative signal to gate , not positive .

these arent available anywhere , I havent seen one and neither has anyone on the forums .
it is also called = Feild Controlled Diode FCD .

the japanese diagram has a pulse signal representing main circuit signal , not AC rectifying

I have SCR , I cant see how they could be substituted for SITh , that is why Les Banki used mosfet IXTX20N150 1500V 20A .

Peterae donated 10 circuit boards ,Les maybe 10 boards, no one has responded on O.U.R thread, does that mean no one has even bothered?   what a waste

the SITh is specifically - static INDUCTION thyristor , how does this work ? no one has any experience with one . the trigger circuit is only represented by a diode in the circuit diagram , that doesnt mean it is an actual diode only that a negative signal will pass to the gate and most likey a separate circuit

on electronics forums most techs WONT discuss HV components because of HV dangers , obviously a HV component is ony associated with a HV circuit
chances are they would have no experience with the device either

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 09, 2015, 14:58:02 pm
I read some, but it was already few months ago and i would not be so certain of all.. but from the papers i found on GTo[s and Siths i found that the thiristor is something that is good for trigering a pulse... never a switch...

the mosfet you see in series is what allow the current to stop and allow the sith to stop the current... it won't stop the current even if you trigger it if the current don't fall below a certain level first...

the advantage of this specific part is that the structure of the gate and the current it allow to flow thru the gate is enough to block the high voltage that would kill the transistor..

thats what i remember of it... i doing lot of stuff now related to getting the money for my probe... the video of my project to get the crowd funding to help...when i will be more relax with all going i can go back there and find this papers for you... but is nothing that can't be found on internet...

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 13, 2015, 00:31:46 am

this article has a photo of a portable pulse set with a car battery .

"the interesting point of this circuit is that with out any separate gate control circuit , the SIThy is turned off by forcing the device current to flow through its gate ,resulting in fast extraction of the carriers and the current cut off. Therefore , although the circuit control is carried out by using the FET , it is the SIThy that holds the induced voltage by L and plays the role of an opening switch."

Title: Re: Nano Pulse Electrolysis
Post by: Hidden on October 13, 2015, 04:08:43 am
yes massive right there... thats what i mean... the fet cuts the current and the sity create an open ckt at aross the primary but holding the high voltage into the structure... not going to the fet,,,  saving the fet in some way from the peak