Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Electrolysis => HV and hydroxy => Topic started by: sebosfato on June 29, 2010, 01:50:05 am

Title: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 29, 2010, 01:50:05 am
New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation:

A Parallel Resonant Circuit herein called tank circuit by its ability to Recirculate and accumulate power in it self, Is known to have also very high impedance at the resonant frequency.

Stan told us that he was using only voltage to break water and that to do so he needed to restrict the current...

While I was doing all my tests about the resonant tank i tried to add to the tank in series and in parallel the cell for trying to generate the h2. I did a many tests as I could imagine and that my and collaborators money allowed me. However just came to my mind something i couldn't and didn't had the idea to test. And Is based on the proposed EEC diagram that meyer posted.

The idea Is all about to charge a resonant tank and than to discharge the tank energy into the water in a particular way.

I will explain better:

Inductance for the more it can behave like a short circuit because of it's low ohmic resistance on its wires, is far less "short circuit" than a Capacitor. Capacitors have negative impedance and it behave like a vacuum sealed compartment that when you open, immediately is replenished with air, capacitors replenish with charge and thats why it is more short than an inductance.

What i'm proposing is.

1° charge resonant tank
2° disconnect the capacitor from the tank when the energy is concentrated into the coil
3° connect or close the circuit (inductance) into the water cell having distilled water there.

Why this could be different?

He clearly said that restrict the current was needed and repeatedly claimed  inductance was going to do it.

Point of greatest importance:

A capacitor discharge, discharge all its energy with negative impedance.
An inductance would discharge its energy restricting the current with its positive reactance. (not allowing the current to discharge all in once)

That could change the things as it would really create an electric field that could make physical work on the water. 

What do you think about?

Participate Answering to the pool and proposing circuit simulation that could help with this. Edit your older posts cleaning useless informations to help the thread to be organized and clear enough for a first time reader. OK?
Thanks
Best Regards





Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 29, 2010, 03:40:58 am
There is still another thing i thought today...

Its about ionization.

Today in a chemistry lesson I learned about acids. I learned that an acid will dissociate in aqueous solution into hydrogen ions H3O+ and Anions example H2SO4- will dissociate into 2H+ and SO4- Anion.

Ok why is it related?

Do you remember when i said that we could just need to find a way to pass the amperage thru the water at a lower than 1,23 volts for it to be overunity?
 
Well i noticed some relation to the ionization of the water mentioned and all that 4th stage of ionization (myth) with cations or anions with charges of +4 or -4

For example in my tests with the cell in series with the "tank" i got the min voltage across the cell to be 1,44 volts and i was using steel electrodes. I was using NaOH- witch is a base and dissociate forming OH- ions and Na+ cations.

The periodic table is very magic and it have cool proprieties witch allow us to know the propriety the element have accordingly to its position. Things like electronegativity, Atomic weight, size, How much electrons it can gain or lose... For example all the elements on the left column (excluding H) are called bases metals and they only link with 1 electron pair thats why NaOH-.  +-

What i'm thinking is that meyer said clearly that stainless steel was indispensable and that faraday would have not discovered his process because there was no stainless steel at his time.

This lead us to think two things

1° that he was using an acid as electrolyte ( as it wont corrode stainless steel) ( he also affirmed that ( because it would not take part into the reaction or something like that)
2° that he was using ultra pure water and didn't wanted it to dissolve iron ions..

The second is less supported by info we have however...

My teacher said that there are acids and cations that can have up to 4+ charge and 4- charge...

That took my attention!

What if a combination of acids and or bases and salts could switch of the covalent bounding???
What if some acid that would attack steel or iron witch were the electrodes faraday had at his time could change the parameters of electrolysis allowing lower voltage to be applied????.

Ferrocianidric acid dissociates into -4 ions and some other 6 acids

phosphoric acid dissociate into -2 or -3 ions (not sure now need to open the book now)

Barium hydroxide dissociate into 2+ i guess

and so on

What i would like to do is to rebuild my "tank" setup with different cells electrodes shapes materials and configurations and acids bases and salts in all possible proportions to check if have something to do with it.

Regards
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 29, 2010, 20:52:23 pm
New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation:

A Parallel Resonant Circuit herein called tank circuit by its ability to Recirculate and accumulate power in it self, Is known to have also very high impedance at the resonant frequency.

Stan told us that he was using only voltage to break water and that to do so he needed to restrict the current...

While I was doing all my tests about the resonant tank i tried to add to the tank in series and in parallel the cell for trying to generate the h2. I did a many tests as I could imagine and that my and collaborators money allowed me. However just came to my mind something i couldn't and didn't had the idea to test. And Is based on the proposed EEC diagram that meyer posted.

The idea Is all about to charge a resonant tank and than to discharge the tank energy into the water in a particular way.

I will explain better:

Inductance for the more it can behave like a short circuit because of it's low ohmic resistance on its wires, is far less "short circuit" than a Capacitor. Capacitors have negative impedance and it behave like a vacuum sealed compartment that when you open, immediately is replenished with air, capacitors replenish with charge and thats why it is more short than an inductance.

What i'm proposing is.

1° charge resonant tank
2° disconnect the capacitor from the tank when the energy is concentrated into the coil
3° connect or close the circuit (inductance) into the water cell having distilled water there.

Why this could be different?

He clearly said that restrict the current was needed and repeatedly claimed  inductance was going to do it.

Point of greatest importance:

A capacitor discharge, discharge all its energy with negative impedance.
An inductance would discharge its energy restricting the current with its positive reactance. (not allowing the current to discharge all in once)

That could change the things as it would really create an electric field that could make physical work on the water. 

What do you think about?

Participate Answering to the pool and proposing circuit simulation that could help with this. Edit your older posts cleaning useless informations to help the thread to be organized and clear enough for a first time reader. OK?
Thanks
Best Regards

Fabio,

I tried and many others to discharge a capacitor into a wfc.
I ll guess that discharging a coil will be similair and will happen as quickly as the resistance will allow it to do.

For sure a circuit like will restrict the charging power towards to tank circuit.

regards
Steve






Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 29, 2010, 20:59:33 pm
There is still another thing i thought today...

Its about ionization.

Today in a chemistry lesson I learned about acids. I learned that an acid will dissociate in aqueous solution into hydrogen ions H3O+ and Anions example H2SO4- will dissociate into 2H+ and SO4- Anion.

Ok why is it related?

Do you remember when i said that we could just need to find a way to pass the amperage thru the water at a lower than 1,23 volts for it to be overunity?
 
Well i noticed some relation to the ionization of the water mentioned and all that 4th stage of ionization (myth) with cations or anions with charges of +4 or -4

For example in my tests with the cell in series with the "tank" i got the min voltage across the cell to be 1,44 volts and i was using steel electrodes. I was using NaOH- witch is a base and dissociate forming OH- ions and Na+ cations.

The periodic table is very magic and it have cool proprieties witch allow us to know the propriety the element have accordingly to its position. Things like electronegativity, Atomic weight, size, How much electrons it can gain or lose... For example all the elements on the left column (excluding H) are called bases metals and they only link with 1 electron pair thats why NaOH-.  +-

What i'm thinking is that meyer said clearly that stainless steel was indispensable and that faraday would have not discovered his process because there was no stainless steel at his time.

This lead us to think two things

1° that he was using an acid as electrolyte ( as it wont corrode stainless steel) ( he also affirmed that ( because it would not take part into the reaction or something like that)
2° that he was using ultra pure water and didn't wanted it to dissolve iron ions..

The second is less supported by info we have however...

My teacher said that there are acids and cations that can have up to 4+ charge and 4- charge...

That took my attention!

What if a combination of acids and or bases and salts could switch of the covalent bounding???
What if some acid that would attack steel or iron witch were the electrodes faraday had at his time could change the parameters of electrolysis allowing lower voltage to be applied????.

Ferrocianidric acid dissociates into -4 ions and some other 6 acids

phosphoric acid dissociate into -2 or -3 ions (not sure now need to open the book now)

Barium hydroxide dissociate into 2+ i guess

and so on

What i would like to do is to rebuild my "tank" setup with different cells electrodes shapes materials and configurations and acids bases and salts in all possible proportions to check if have something to do with it.

Regards

Yes, i do remember our discussion about trieing to lower the voltage as much a possible with help of a better material use. Possible another acid or metal could help a lot.
The latest tests on many other forum where done with peepower...........(urine) which works pretty nice. The smell however......hehehehehehe.

Stan have said many things.....

Steve




Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 30, 2010, 04:09:27 am
Steve it's incredible this seems a confirmation of my theory!

"Gerardine Botte of Ohio University uses an electrolytic approach to produce hydrogen from urine - the most abundant waste on Earth - at a fraction of the cost of producing hydrogen from water.
Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.
Botte uses electrolysis to break the molecule apart, developing an inexpensive new nickel-based electrode to selectively and efficiently oxidise the urea. To break the molecule down, a voltage of 0.37V needs to be applied across the cell - much less than the 1.23V needed to split water.
Her work is described in the Royal Society of Chemistry journal Chemical Communications.
“During the electrochemical process the urea gets adsorbed on to the nickel electrode surface, which passes the electrons needed to break up the molecule,” Botte told Chemistry World."

http://www.physorg.com/news165836803.html

Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 30, 2010, 19:58:28 pm
Fabio,
 
If you have some time, then go read the topic of Larry.
He tried urea and nickelplates
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=5932&highlight=urea (http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=5932&highlight=urea)
 

Steve
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 05, 2010, 18:44:18 pm
Hi steve, cool but i think would split only the urea don't?


However I got more infos to tweek our minds...


I want to come back to Stan messing up with ionization word meaning ...


Today i got a lesson about bases and salts...


There are bases like


NaOH-
Ba(OH)2
Fe(OH)3


This when in aqueous solution ionize and become



NaOH-     ----------+H2O------====   Na+ (aq) + OH-
Ba(OH)2  ---------+H2O------====  Ba2+ (aq) + 2OH-
Fe(OH)3 ---------+H20-------==== Fe3+ (aq) + 3OH-




I'm believing that the way find Stan secret is:


1 Build My proposed Resonant tank. Comprising huge inductor ( 1mh about 30meters of wire about 5mm thick and + home built rolled capacitor with polypropylene film and copper foil...    )
2 Build 2 stainless steel cells comprising one inside and one outside tube for each cell. (with antiparallel diodes as i proposed) 
3 Add a multimeter in parallel with the cells and try every type of electrolyte!!!!!!


When you find an electrolyte (acid, base or salts) or combination thereof that makes the voltage on the cells to drop under 1,24 volts just JUMP AND CELEBRATE!!! and Tell us...


Regards...


To operate probably the resonant tank wont be necessary if you make it series cell, however to discover the right electrolyte will be needed because is the only way to have the current to pass thru the water with min possible voltage...


 
 
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 05, 2010, 22:49:21 pm
Hi steve, cool but i think would split only the urea don't?


However I got more infos to tweek our minds...


I want to come back to Stan messing up with ionization word meaning ...


Today i got a lesson about bases and salts...


There are bases like


NaOH-
Ba(OH)2
Fe(OH)3


This when in aqueous solution ionize and become



NaOH-     ----------+H2O------====   Na+ (aq) + OH-
Ba(OH)2  ---------+H2O------====  Ba2+ (aq) + 2OH-
Fe(OH)3 ---------+H20-------==== Fe3+ (aq) + 3OH-




I'm believing that the way find Stan secret is:


1 Build My proposed Resonant tank. Comprising huge inductor ( 1mh about 30meters of wire about 5mm thick and + home built rolled capacitor with polypropylene film and copper foil...    )
2 Build 2 stainless steel cells comprising one inside and one outside tube for each cell. (with antiparallel diodes as i proposed) 
3 Add a multimeter in parallel with the cells and try every type of electrolyte!!!!!!


When you find an electrolyte (acid, base or salts) or combination thereof that makes the voltage on the cells to drop under 1,24 volts just JUMP AND CELEBRATE!!! and Tell us...


Regards...


To operate probably the resonant tank wont be necessary if you make it series cell, however to discover the right electrolyte will be needed because is the only way to have the current to pass thru the water with min possible voltage...

Hi my friend from Brasil  :)
 
As you know, i tried to copy your setup and i had similair results.
The whole circuit was in resonance, but the funny thing is that the wfc tubes consume amps and they take that power from the tank circuit.
And of course we have to add power to the tank circuit and that is equal to the consumed power from the wfc tubes and the heat loss from the tank circuit.
 
The circuit is nice, but it is less efficient then a good drycell and for me that path stops for the moment.
 
The search for better materials is always a topic which stays interesting.
I must say that with my drycell NAOH is still a good one. So is KOH.
On my low amp situation NAOH is a bit better.....
 
 
Steve
 
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2010, 05:17:28 am
Guys i had a kind of idea of what were inside stan black box.


Read with much attention!


1° Magnetic Force is not consumed from a permanent magnet in a generator.


2° A generator comprise a way to move a magnetic field in relation to an inductor to generate electricity. To move this field we use to add mechanic energy.


3° Electromagnets can create a magnetic force or magnetic flux.


4° with an electromagnet you can raise a car using a machine (the car sticks to it)


5° the energy needed to stick the car to the coil is far less than that to raise it.


A transformer works by applying energy in the primary to align the magnetic domains in the core inducing thus by lenz force a current in the  secondary.


The idea come from how speakers work.


I had a problem with a twitter yesterday in my studio monitor, it just blowed out. I opened it to try repairing it and i found out that it need the same wire i bough long ago to construct the vic's. Coincidence? Today i was in a mechanical physics lesson and in a power lesson the teacher mentioned in some moment by case the word spring. Bang...


I thought...


In a resonant circuit we have at resonance maximum voltage and current (force) and current lags voltage so the (dissipated) power is lower than the reactive power circulating in the circuit. (voltage and current are out of phase)


I already build on the past a resonant tank that circulated 10000watts using about 100 to do so..


bla bla bla where you want to arrive sebos???


What i want to create is a kind of vibrational double resonant transformer that would use the force of the magnetic field created in a coil witch belong to a tank circuit to vibrate a magnet witch is held by springs that also have a certain resonance frequency witch move the magnet in relation to the coil generating energy.


I thought of a different way to do it.


I would need a wood box constructed to vibrate at a certain frequency (resonant cavity for real) and to position a sub woofer speaker running the same frequency with a parallel capacitor and the water cell in series with the thing...


Basically the inductor preferably or the magnet should be fix to allow the other to vibrate. This vibration would induce a current in the same or other coil.


I have reasons to believe that the energy output will be far greater than the input and probably dependent on voltage developed thus inductance of the coils ... and the frequency.... . Probably there might exist the need to use bifilar coil to get this energy out useable and clean.
 
The spring light came from the patent from saint german about worm hole generator. ( however he don't talk of physical springs only universal spring constant and a strange fig of coils integrals and bla bla bla... 


 


 
 
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2010, 07:48:15 am
Yes man is about this kind of vibration i'm talking about.
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2010, 06:50:31 am
I'm still thinking about this vibration transformer and i just found a good way for doing it..


A plexiglass tube (maybe 3 cm diameter 10 cm long) with a coil outside, in the inside a cylindrical or ball permanent magnet (some oil could be added to reduce friction and also this tube could be under vacuum to reduce air drag too) and at the top and bottom fixed springs or permanent magnets with reverse polarity to the face of the in magnet...


The coil should have a very big inductance in my opinion as to have a frequency not too high to allow big vibration. However this inductor should have a big Q factor. Than a capacitor hand rolled should be added in parallel. All this could be driven with a vic coil... 


The load could be implemented in parallel to the circuit or in series However in my imagination in parallel would be better and using an igbt with a control circuit witch would allow to conduct fpr some ms when the tank is full to not totally discharge the tank during operation...


There is a need to design it well to know the weight for calculating the spring constants of the magnets to find the frequency witch they will vibrate.
This way is possible to roll the capacitor for the right R frequency.


Amps should be kept small i think and voltage big...


The spring constant will depend on the weight and is similar to the resonant frequency calculation of a tank circuit = 1/( 2PIsqrt(mass/K))




The tank should operate at 2kv maybe 10 or 20 amps... (recirculating)


The input power should be around 2kv 100ma or less


Maybe a spark gap will be needed too for limiting the voltage


(it seems to me in my mind like donald L smith devices...) don't know why
Regards
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2010, 06:55:11 am
Aways good to remember, if you try to do this to be extremely careful. if you touch the inductor terminations during operation you could really burn 2kv 20 amps are = to 40kwatts discharge into you. You will die if touch. so please too much careful!!!!!!
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2010, 20:26:41 pm
I've researching about the mechanical resonance involved in this project i'm proposing and I found to be amazingly complicated to achieve and maintain the mechanical oscillation. 1° because will depend on the weight of the internal magnet and the forces of the other two related magnets and also will depend on the power applied. So a mean for controlling the voltage applied will be needed.


I though this,
Construct the tube with the magnets than discover its mechanical resonant frequency, than construct a well designed coil that coincides in electrical resonance with the resonant capacitor but also its magnetic field strength for the desired power operation, to allow the magnets to resonate...


I don't know if you understand my point...


something like this:
Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2010, 11:58:34 am
Quote from Puharich patent

he Anatomy of the Barrier  Effect     Region A: Shows active and  efficient  hydrolysis
Region B: The barrier region  effect  can be initiated with taps of the finger, or it can spontaneously occur  as a function of time.
Phase a: The current rose from  1  mA to 30 mA. The voltage fell from 22 volts to 2.5 V.
Phase b: If component II is  tapped  mechanically during Phase a supra --- it can be reversed as follows:  The  current dropped from 30 Ma to 10 Ma. The voltage shot up from 5 volts  to  over 250 volts (off scale).
Throughout Phase a and Phase b,  all  hydrolysis has ceased. It was observed under the microscope that the  inner  surface of the outer electrode was thickly covered with hydrogen gas  bubbles.  It was reasoned that the hydrogen gas bubbles had become trapped in the  electrostricted layer, because the water molecule tetrahedrons had  flipped  so that the S+ hydrogen apices had entered the Helmholtz layer and were  absorbed to the electronegative charge of the electrode. This left the  S- lone pair apices facing the electrostricted layer. This process  bound  the newly forming H.sup.+ ions which blocked the reaction
H+  + H+   + 2e ==> H2 (gas)
STAGE F
Region C: It was found that the  barrier  effect could be unblocked by some relatively simple procedures:
(a) Reversing the output  electrodes  from Component I to Component II, and/or:
(b) Mechanically tapping the  Component  III cell at a frequency T/2 = 1.5 seconds per tap.
These effects are shown in FIG.  12  and induce the drop in barrier potential from
(http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/3eq4.jpg)
Upon unblocking of the barrier  effect,  electrolysis of water resumed with renewed bubble formation of hydrogen  gas.
The barrier potential problem  has  been solved for practical application by lowering the high dielectric  constant  of pure water, by adding salts (NaCl, KOH, etc.) to the pure water  thereby  increasing its conductivity characteristics. For optimum efficiency the  salt concentration need not exceed that of sea water (0.9% salinity) in  Section 3, "Thermodynamics of the Invention", it is to be understood  that  all water solutions described are not "pure" water as in Section B, but  refer only to salinized water.
Cool video
feature=related

Title: Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2010, 01:03:24 am
Hi dankie


thanks for the contribution is of very good value =) thanks really!


This absorption he talks about i believe is the same the palladium have with hydrogen. Switch off covalent bound by catalytic modification in the molecular shape... But only the right material can absorb the right amount. Palladium is 5 times better than barium and manganese oxide read somewhere.


Regards