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Stanley Meyer => General Stan Meyer topics => Topic started by: Steve on December 01, 2019, 12:36:53 pm

Title: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2019, 12:36:53 pm
Stan tried to explain us his theory about using Voltage for breaking down the water molecule.
He wanted to overcome the attraction force of the bonding electrons.
Sofar nobody really explained this to me in a normal way.
I did some research and i want to share that with you, here on our forum.

The photoelectronic spectrum of H2O reveals four different energy levels that correspond to the ionization energies of the two bonding and two nonbonding pairs of elections at 12.6eV, 14.7eV, 18.5eV, and 32.2eV.

So what does that mean now?
It means that you need somewhere between 12,6 and 32,2 volts per bonding electron.

Now it becomes massive and tricky.

If you have two electrodes and you put 12,6v, you never ever get 12,6V on 1 molecule of water.
I explain: You dont have 1 electron on that electrode. You have a lot of them. And you have to divide the applied voltage per electron going to the other electrode.
If you have two electrons moving to the other electrode, you have 6,3V per electron.

So, back to Stans theory.
He needed to to use small electrodes, which he did. He had to use high voltage (lots of electrons)
Otherwise he would not be able to do any covalent bond breaking at all.

So, now it is you turn.
If we take 1 square inch of flat electrode.
How many electrons do you have on it when you apply 20kv?


Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2019, 20:13:22 pm
Part2 of what Meyer explained is that when you start with putting electrical stress to a water molecule and its atoms, you stretch the atoms, for real!!!!!!
Please re read.
You stretch the atoms for a moment.
Each time you stretch or flex the atoms, they release energy. The spinning moments of all internal particles in the nucleus of the atoms are slowing down and release energy.
The equilibrium state is broken.
So what does nature do in such a situation?
It starts to compensate and energy flows into the spinning particles, so they start spin again at the same rate as before.

So, if you shoot some voltage pulses into the water, the atoms are getting charged up.

The next phase of Meyer is to pluck the electrons out of the water bath.
When some atoms are releasing electrons, it is needed to extract the electrons out of the water.
The longer the non equilibrium state, to more zero point energy floats into the atoms for compensation.


 








Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2019, 00:04:35 am
try to experiment with cancelling magnetic fields of sparks not conductors because the velocity of electrons in conductors is low
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2019, 07:49:03 am

coulomb
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2019, 08:40:15 am
coulomb?
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2019, 21:34:19 pm

charge on a capacitor
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb%27s_law

if electrons are removed from a fixed amount of water, then there is a majority of protons left , + charge.
the Oxygen wants electrons so it has to suck them from some where
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2019, 15:18:01 pm
Stan tried to explain us his theory about using Voltage for breaking down the water molecule.
He wanted to overcome the attraction force of the bonding electrons.
Sofar nobody really explained this to me in a normal way.
I did some research and i want to share that with you, here on our forum.

The photoelectronic spectrum of H2O reveals four different energy levels that correspond to the ionization energies of the two bonding and two nonbonding pairs of elections at 12.6eV, 14.7eV, 18.5eV, and 32.2eV.

So what does that mean now?
It means that you need somewhere between 12,6 and 32,2 volts per bonding electron.

Now it becomes massive and tricky.

If you have two electrodes and you put 12,6v, you never ever get 12,6V on 1 molecule of water.
I explain: You dont have 1 electron on that electrode. You have a lot of them. And you have to divide the applied voltage per electron going to the other electrode.
If you have two electrons moving to the other electrode, you have 6,3V per electron.

So, back to Stans theory.
He needed to to use small electrodes, which he did. He had to use high voltage (lots of electrons)
Otherwise he would not be able to do any covalent bond breaking at all.

So, now it is you turn.
If we take 1 square inch of flat electrode.
How many electrons do you have on it when you apply 20kv?

Thanks for posting those photo electron voltages, Steve.  I wasn't aware that Stan was into that aspect.  One value he left out is the 6.1 ev for breaking out a single Hydrogen, leaving hydroxyl.  But keep in mind that these are kinetic energy values, representing precise electron velocities to produce impact dissociation.  A cloud of electrons traveling at one of the indicated velocities will produce the desired effect when injected into some water mist.  Vibrating free electrons in a water bath, at the exact velocity to cause the molecules to split, would be a good trick, and might be a more complex approach than is needed.  This is a quantum effect - a tiny bit too much voltage, and it won't work.
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2019, 10:53:44 am
Stan tried to explain us his theory about using Voltage for breaking down the water molecule.
He wanted to overcome the attraction force of the bonding electrons.
Sofar nobody really explained this to me in a normal way.
I did some research and i want to share that with you, here on our forum.

The photoelectronic spectrum of H2O reveals four different energy levels that correspond to the ionization energies of the two bonding and two nonbonding pairs of elections at 12.6eV, 14.7eV, 18.5eV, and 32.2eV.

So what does that mean now?
It means that you need somewhere between 12,6 and 32,2 volts per bonding electron.

Now it becomes massive and tricky.

If you have two electrodes and you put 12,6v, you never ever get 12,6V on 1 molecule of water.
I explain: You dont have 1 electron on that electrode. You have a lot of them. And you have to divide the applied voltage per electron going to the other electrode.
If you have two electrons moving to the other electrode, you have 6,3V per electron.

So, back to Stans theory.
He needed to to use small electrodes, which he did. He had to use high voltage (lots of electrons)
Otherwise he would not be able to do any covalent bond breaking at all.

So, now it is you turn.
If we take 1 square inch of flat electrode.
How many electrons do you have on it when you apply 20kv?

Thanks for posting those photo electron voltages, Steve.  I wasn't aware that Stan was into that aspect.  One value he left out is the 6.1 ev for breaking out a single Hydrogen, leaving hydroxyl.  But keep in mind that these are kinetic energy values, representing precise electron velocities to produce impact dissociation.  A cloud of electrons traveling at one of the indicated velocities will produce the desired effect when injected into some water mist.  Vibrating free electrons in a water bath, at the exact velocity to cause the molecules to split, would be a good trick, and might be a more complex approach than is needed.  This is a quantum effect - a tiny bit too much voltage, and it won't work.

Thanks Tek,

Good point.
So, here is what Wiki has to say about this:
An electronvolt is the amount of kinetic energy gained or lost by a single electron accelerating from rest through an electric potential difference of one volt in vacuum.

So, if i have a potential difference of 1 volt across our waterfuelcell, electrons only flow from the cathode to the protons.
And also electrons from the water molecule flow to the anode.
The atoms feel the potential difference across a wfc.
Meaning that the higher the voltage potential across the electrodes, the more kinetec force electrons get?



Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2019, 11:01:57 am
I just try to understand Stans process.
He clearly is pulsing DC in stead of strait DC.
I know from my own experiments that the type of gas changes to the better for my test engines when i used unregulated DC.
Stans always claimed that his process is about de-stabilizing the gasses he produced.
So, what happens with the proton, swimming from the anode to the cathode? His bond with the oxygen atom was terminated when the oxygen let go some electrons at the anode.
The proton still feels the kathode and all electrons on it, so it moves towards the cathode. Right?
But, now we terminate the DC pulse. We remove the electrons from the kathode.
What will the swimming proton do? Go up and releases it self from the water bath?
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2019, 12:20:50 pm
There must be a difference in weight between a hydrogen atom and a proton because the 1s electron shields the nucleus of the proton and neutralizes same charge of it.
However, when i google, most of the dummy´s give the same mass for a proton as for an atom.
And the molecule is of course times 2.

Ill guess and i read it also somewhere else that protons have more mass and more energy.

https://books.google.de/books?id=zUldcAIrL5kC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=monatomic+hydrogen&source=bl&ots=uUfhS7wE4B&sig=ACfU3U2ug5poUpRwimiLI8IuHA9iy1-Eow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjY_KKy76_mAhUEShUIHQsxBSg4FBDoATADegQICBAB#v=onepage&q=monatomic%20hydrogen&f=false

Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2019, 12:31:00 pm
So, what was Stan doing?
He used very tiny electrodes, at the end.
That makes it easier to send a high voltage pulse, before lots of current follow.
Using the dieelectric properties of water, means using the resistance of about 80 ohms
So, using very short, high voltage pulses .
And when a bit of gas is produced in the wfc, the resistance will go up, very high.
Thats why he used a collapsing coil. That way the discharge into the cell would adjust by it self.
The more resistance, means a higher voltage peak. and a longer duration of that peak. Till all charge has gone from the coil.
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2019, 12:35:37 pm
So, i repeat:

What Meyer explained is that when you start with putting electrical stress to a water molecule and its atoms, you stretch the atoms, for real!!!!!!

You stretch the atoms for a moment.
Each time you stretch or flex the atoms, they release energy. The spinning moments of all internal particles in the nucleus of the atoms are slowing down and release energy.
The equilibrium state is broken.
Then nature starts to compensate and energy flows into the spinning particles, so they start spin again at the same rate as before.
So, if you shoot some voltage pulses into the water, the atoms are getting charged up because this energy flows thru a one way valve....Stans words.
The longer the non equilibrium state, to more zero point energy floats into the atoms for compensation.
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2019, 10:07:20 am
Come on steve where does the extra energy come from? The spacetime is supposed to be torsionless so when the waves move which is what particle spin is they store no energy in the spacetime as torsion
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2019, 14:23:50 pm
there is longitudinal mass and transverse mass of particles so the energy you spend to move an atom is more than it's kinetic energy
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2019, 17:04:15 pm
the magnetic flux can actually be superluminal but thats not possible ... why? because the magnetic flux isn't a real quantity but an end effect of a more complex mechanism
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2019, 06:36:26 am
Meyer talk about the timeshare rate of electrons being changed by the external electric field applied.. He talks about this zero point energy that comes in when we try to slow down the orbit of the electron by distorting it and how it would return to normal orbit energy state by the universal energy coming in.

Penrose calculated that the energy density of space time is tremendous... If u take a look into quincy st clair patents he talk about using fields to distort the space time and manipulate molecules..

I think the covalent switch off is a mechanism still but have to test to see if is real..

I think that horvath used the same path...

It may be about using high voltage pulse in a manner that it switch off the covalent bound in a strong polarized cell

Geometry is key and also circuit design to be able to get the fields where they should and strong enough to happen the covalent switchoff

I believe is about applying a high positive or negative pulse to the inside electrode while having strong electrolysis happening

My idea is that when the molecules are polarized in one direction and you punch it with a reverse polarity pulse of very short duration it would shake the electrons and toss out the hydrogen molecules instead of having to pass current to split them..

Believe is believe and pratic is pratic..

I understand all you wrote steve... I think is correct... But to real flex the molecules some field may be required... We know theres milions of volts electric fields inside the cell at the double layer barrier. Perhapps we could use them
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2019, 08:52:18 am
We must remember that whatever the polarity is water is aways attracted to it... You can see in the kelving droper example... Mostly ions will be polarity sensitive but water molecules work diferent.. Of couse molecules are going to align for a field applied slow.. But oxygen detain 8 protons and 8 electrons of its own. So it has 8 more times atraction to whatever field source than each hydrogen atom... If we imagine a molecule perfect aligned and apply a reverse polarity to it very sharp we would expect the molecules to get fisicaly repeled before fliping.. 

If we apply ac or a very sharp pulses like those the fracture cell circuit provides to it we are shaking the electrons inside the oxigen atom provided that the field is realy there!

Geometry and circuit desing is the only way to get such fields mix inside there.

I think the chokes are there for allowing the field to keep the high voltage charge applied in the inside electrode impeeding it from traveling thru the circuit and reach the outer electrode for it to make any efect... The field inside a cahrged holow metal is zero...

Thats my two cents on it.. 

Meyer talk about the diode as a switching diode and blocking diode this mean to me that he apply ac spikes to achieve this!

Also his chokes must be wise in maintain the charge
So winding direction is fundamental too ... I seen shields in high voltage coils for example...

Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2019, 09:36:24 am
Fabio you're not listening to me , the general relativity says that spacetime is torsionless it means that the spacetime has zero skew, imagine a rotating pendulum it has the same properties as a regular pendulum but now the rotational inertia and the elasticity of the string replaces the mass, this rotating pendulum can't exist in spacetime because the spacetime doesn't twist like that however you can still use the linear approach of SR in rotating matter, imagine the electron position annihilation which gives two photons, this means that these particles have the same structure, the electron has charge of -1 , the positron of +1 why is that? the only explanation is that their relative angle is fixed, it means that through natural selection certain matter evolved into what is the electron and proton like complex organism evolved, it also means there are other particles which we haven't explored and this may be true since there are 100s of particles unidentified yet in collision experiments, now the question is what is mass and what is stored in spacetime as mass , there is the rest mass and the relativistic mass or longitudinal mass but there's also transverse mass so in total there are 3 masses and if you count the inertial mass which is not always the same as rest mass there are 4 masses but mass is energy or better yet energy is mass, what is stored in spacetime is energy but like cogs in a clock these don't spin faster on their own, the only way to get the energy out is through fusion or fission it means that the matter waves of the nucleons drop to lower energy states, the matter waves of the nucleons have acquired their energy from creation or the big bang, this is the only spacetime energy you can harvest possibly, the elasticity of spacetime doesn't allow you to store more energy than what you put out, also in experiments if you use wires then the velocity of charges is ultra low some m/s because the wire has billions of atoms as charge carriers the same field creates all fields but with low speed the other fields are almost zero, everyone still things of induction of coils but there is also induction of charges which is what induction of coils is the curvature of the coil adds to induction which is why everyone thinks of induction of curved surfaces, if you do FEMM simulations which uses the 3 maxwell equations of EM but for infinitesimal regions you can get solutions which don't agree with what you get if you do them by hand so to finish with this instead of thinking about wires think about what each charge is doing then add all the fields together, the superposition principle applies to all fields so a cancelling magnetic field is never cancelled
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2019, 15:38:15 pm
did you saw his patents? i mean john quincy st clair?

he show some formula... he proposes that using a combination of fields is possible to calculate in a matrix the curvature generated.. and he says it can be used for thrust and other means

all based in his wormhole generator apparently

is hard to tell how he got this stuff patented talking about contact with other civilizations etc,,,

but i understand what you are saying GEON but i also think maybe theres more than what books tells apparently.. we should try to match some of the hard science knowledge with this claims to try understand whats going on.. when i got back to Brazil and into the physics university was for this reason.. meyer talked the language of science and it seemed the most reasonable way to learn it.. and perhaps understand something more.

if patents never exists maybe we would have time machines by now =D
 
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2019, 17:24:09 pm
did you saw his patents? i mean john quincy st clair?

he show some formula... he proposes that using a combination of fields is possible to calculate in a matrix the curvature generated.. and he says it can be used for thrust and other means

all based in his wormhole generator apparently

is hard to tell how he got this stuff patented talking about contact with other civilizations etc,,,

but i understand what you are saying GEON but i also think maybe theres more than what books tells apparently.. we should try to match some of the hard science knowledge with this claims to try understand whats going on.. when i got back to Brazil and into the physics university was for this reason.. meyer talked the language of science and it seemed the most reasonable way to learn it.. and perhaps understand something more.

if patents never exists maybe we would have time machines by now =D

I completely agree with your assessment of st Clair.  He's more than a little 'out there'.  So I have to discount what he presents.  But I don't know that we DON'T have time machines already.  I was recently watching a chem trail jet, and it suddenly jumped quite a ways forwards, leaving a big gap in the exhaust stream.  Just teleportation, or maybe something more?
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2019, 11:38:42 am
when we look at the kelving water droper

the fields are kind of self sustained...

i think we need some strong electrolysis going on served by a isolated transformer thru a pair of common mode chokes made of long thick wire to keep losses low

L2a=L1+Ñturns
L2b=L1-Nturns

L2b is a tap

having this tap at L2 is possible to feed it from a pair of diodes to aways maintain the charge where it should be

aplying ac but having a control and balanced dc content based on the Nturns

when applying high voltage to L2, L1 will replicate the voltage as common mode so the whole cell will go up and high but whatever is the polarity because the action of the diodes  a dc bias would be formed.

the high voltage transformer must be driven by push pull with a time between the pulses to forme the high voltage spike on both polaritities



Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2019, 11:31:49 am
did you saw his patents? i mean john quincy st clair?

he show some formula... he proposes that using a combination of fields is possible to calculate in a matrix the curvature generated.. and he says it can be used for thrust and other means

all based in his wormhole generator apparently

is hard to tell how he got this stuff patented talking about contact with other civilizations etc,,,

but i understand what you are saying GEON but i also think maybe theres more than what books tells apparently.. we should try to match some of the hard science knowledge with this claims to try understand whats going on.. when i got back to Brazil and into the physics university was for this reason.. meyer talked the language of science and it seemed the most reasonable way to learn it.. and perhaps understand something more.

if patents never exists maybe we would have time machines by now =D

this guy writes chakra and another paragraph which wasn't needed "A segment of this hull is designed on a 3D computer graphics program and stored as a stereolithography *.stl file. The file is then transmitted over the Internet to a server who prints up the part on an xy-plotter with an ultraviolet laser and ultraviolet light sensitive polymer bath. The computer model is sliced by a special program into many thousands of slices which are printed one over the other until the part is completed. The server returns the part next day by Express Mail. "
also "By placing the hands on either side of the ball, rotating astral energy flows from the right-hand chakra to the left-hand chakra. The linear momentum of the hyperspace energy crossed with the angular momentum of the astral energy times the lever arm offset above the coil generates an oscillating body torque"

so I get the impression he is trolling although if you neglect all common logic you can turn an atom into photons, the photons can be produced during matter antimatter collision which is electron positron collision, the electron has many information e.x. angular momentum and spin, when the positron and electron unite the angular momentum is cancelled and a wave which has zero spacetime curvature aka no mass is produced aka photon which is an EM wave with an intrinsic clock frequency like all particles, the big question is how is the clock frequency synchronized between all matter of our universe, it means that the starting point of all waves is the same so yes this should come from hyperspace or a 5th dimension which unites the general relativity with quantum mechanics, following from genetic evolution the matter waves formed complex structures after the bang bang and now the funny part is that if you do a parallelism between organisms and our universe, in organisms there are polymerases and ribosomes which create the protein structure in analogy when you shoot a proton with photon which has the same size as the electron and positron the proton creates an electron positron pair!! It can't happen in free space since the angular momentum part of mass was cancelled during the creation of the photon. So a first proton can create all the electrons and protons of the universe, so in order to transfer matter through a wormhole you can shoot the matter with it's antimatter transform it into massless waves and then reshoot it in a mold of matter but then how will the complex structures form again?.. In reality the only thing you could transfer through a wormhole would be simple particles and not complex organisms
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2019, 11:52:39 am
I refer you to podkletnovs gravity beam or something he rotated the ARC


he also said this was like tesla's death ray and got kicked out from where he worked , at least that's what the internets says

for more science fiction in theory you can contruct a wave which has negative spacetime curvature but the same gravitational mass because gravitional mass contracts the spacetime and creates a gradient density which has the same effects on any spacetime distortion not depending on the sign of spacetime density of the particle, this is evident from how photons follow the geodesics of spacetime curvature aka they are bent from gravity and have a zero net sign of spacetime curvature
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2020, 19:45:07 pm
I tried to understand the electron volt thing in combination with water and breaking down water in atoms.

If you consider that there is a resistance in water that slowly giving up if you raise the voltage. Voltage is a potential difference of electrons between two electrodes.
So, you can have  a million electrons waiting on 1  electrode and a lack of electrons on the other electrode who want to suck in electrons from a source.

to be continued.
Title: Re: Explain Meyers Electrons electronVolts Covalent bond theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2020, 02:39:35 am
Electron Volts can be used to express the energy of particles other than electrons, for example, neutrons, bowling balls, and satellites. EV's can also be converted to velocity.  It may be that a charged water molecule, traveling with a velocity which matches one of Stan's photoelectron values, would produce the impact dissociation.  If this velocity is less than the speed of sound in water, then that could be the key to resonance.

Here's a link to a conversion calculator:
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/k_energy