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Stanley Meyer => Stan Meyers system 3 => Topic started by: Steve on November 24, 2009, 15:29:40 pm

Title: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 15:29:40 pm
Start here your topics on the water injector with ambient airgasprocessor system.

Steve
Title: consumption rate of water for stans buggy
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 17:52:45 pm
thought i would share a interesting perspective i found today.. the attached pic is a snapshot right from stans pdf... page 154...

stan states that a 50 hp 1600cc needs 7.4 micro liters to maintain a speed of 65 mph

then he states a 325 hp diesel would require 48.1 to maintain the same average of 65mph...

what i find interesting is that the water amount needed is proportional to hp between the 2 engines (diesel and gasoline)

325 requires 48.1
50 requires 7.4

325/50= 6.5 .... so the diesel is 6.5 times more hp then then buggys gas engine...
7.4 ml x 6.5 times more hp = 48.1

so lets pretend a motor runs 2000 rpm at 65 mph...  and its a 6 cylinder..  each cylinder receives  1 injection cycle per 2 cycles (revolutions)  one of them is used to push out combusted gases and the other is compressing the gas right berfore ignition...

at 2000rpm requires a simple equation
divide rpm by 2 since only one of the revolutions is used for injection..  and thats your frequency of injection...

2000 / 2= 1000 ......

6 cyclinders x 7.4ml = 44.4ml
7.4 every 2 revolution means 2000rpm / 2  = 1000 injection cycles
1000 injection cycles x 6 injection (each cylinder) = 6000 x 7.4ml per cycle = 44,400ml aka .0444 liters @ 2000rpm

.0444 liters per minute x 60 min= 2.664 liters a hour

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 20:24:55 pm
Find out how much gasoline is used per injection cycle in a normal engine, and compare the "energy content" ... it should be the same.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 02:58:59 am
scuse me outlawstc but i think you calculation is a bit wrong

he said that the dune buggy consumed 44ml per minute so would consume about 2,6 liters of water per hour. 65mh 3000 rpm

However rpm doesn't matter as he stated the consumption for minute... thats where you was wrong in your calculations

and

he said 0,000007 liters per injection or 7 ul
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:04:47 am
seb.. have u read the clip at the bottom of my post... it is right out of stans wfc memo on page 154
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:10:44 am
exactly
check what i said
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:13:49 am
0,000007.4 liters * 6000 injections in 1 minute * 60minutes    =2,6 liters per hour maintaining   3000 rpm he clearly stated this
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:19:07 am
about the energy content he say that in one gallon of water you have 1,66 lb of hydrogen and in one gallon of gasoline you have 0,66 if you divide 1,66/0,66= 2,666 considering the contaminants he said 10 % nitrogen present on water should give you the famous 2,5 times more powerful

this is a comparison by weight
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:27:48 am
your right i made a mistake... i will go over it tomorrow and fix it my brains tired.. have a nasty lil sinus cold and been reading to much today..   thanks for posting the by weight comparison..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 03:53:30 am
ok

we could also state 2,6 liters of water *1847 gas expansion = 4800 liters of gas in one hour

at 3000rpm about 80 liters of gas per minute or 1,3 liters of gas per second

injections per second 3000/2*4/60 = 100 counting all injectors

so for every injection of gas in the case you would need 1,3 liter / 100 = 0,013 liters of oxygen hydrogen per injection

i estimated that each injector would works thus 25 times for second so if we have 4 cycles the time you would have to inject this gas inside the engine would be like 1/100 of a second or 0,01 second or 10 milliseconds remember at 3000 rpm if you double rpm the time to inject will be halved.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 04:34:25 am
to calculate maximum time for injection,devide 120,000 by the rpm,and you get milli seconds.
eg. 120,000/6000 rpm = 20 ms.
I use to do these numbers all the time when I was tuning pulse width for programable computers in cars.
Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 04:45:29 am
Nice dynodon

But what is this number? And where it comes from ? Can you explain to us ? thank you

I have an explanation for the difference between your number and mine

I considered the four cycles (1°down intake)  (2°up compression) (3°down explosion) and up for exhaust and theorized you should only inject the gas during the intake

at 3000 rpm you have 1500 complete cycles in a minute, witch = 25 complete cycles per second, if you consider a complete cycle 4 semi-cycles you might find why i found this number

25 complete cycles take 1 sec to occur right so 1sec / (100 quarters of cycle) or (25 * 4 semi cycles)
thats how i estimated 10ms absolute maximum injection time for 3000rpm

Actually I think the timing for the injection should be fix at about 4 ms and that the amount of hydrogen per injection should remain the same, the car should accelerate and de-accelerate by only controlling the amount of air that comes in and or also the exhaust gas re-entering the combustion chamber... the hydrogen will be generated on demand and maintained under min working pressure. If you think about when you mix more exhaust the motor will lower its rpm automatically lowering the consumption of hydrogen as its consume is dictated by number of  injections . Probably meyer regulated the max rpm mixing with the air and the minimum adding also exhaust gases. What do you think??????? HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 16:18:21 pm
hmmmm i always figured injection time changes when revolution time changes (rpm) and the changes are made proportionately  with rpm.. having a predetermined variable being horsepower.

seb check my math above once more please.. pretty sure i have it right...   so it is 7.4 ml per cylinder for 50 hp motor amounting to 2.6 liters per hour at 65mph and 2000rpm? and a average hydrocarbon fuel gets around 6.5 liters a hour at 65mph and 2000rpm due to the fact that there is 2.5 more power in water from having a higher quantity of hydrogen per 1:1 by volume.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 19:12:00 pm
sebosfato,that number is 120k ms. (milliseconds)
1 second = 1000 ms
1 minute = 60 seconds
60 seconds x 1000 = 60,000 ms
It takes two revolutions to complete one cycle,so that means two 2 prm = 120 seconds
120 seconds x 1000 ms = 120,000 ms
Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 19:43:28 pm
hmmmm i always figured injection time changes when revolution time changes (rpm) and the changes are made proportionately  with rpm.. having a predetermined variable being horsepower.

seb check my math above once more please.. pretty sure i have it right...   so it is 7.4 ml per cylinder for 50 hp motor amounting to 2.6 liters per hour at 65mph and 2000rpm? and a average hydrocarbon fuel gets around 6.5 liters a hour at 65mph and 2000rpm due to the fact that there is 2.5 more power in water from having a higher quantity of hydrogen per 1:1 by volume.

Now you corrected it right? Attention because you still confusing micro liters with milliliters. But now the results seems right! I don't understand why you talk about 2000 rpm? Do you mean for 6 cylinders? still not clear...
however
stan said 7.4 micro liters per injection cycle for a 50hp 4 cylinders running at 3000rpm and 65mph
I believe he used the mixing of the gas to control the motor speed i mean he used more or less exhaust recirculation accordingly with the rpm desired. I say this because he talked about the speed of the explosion of the hydrogen witch would be to great alone. So to reduce the speed or the rpm (MEYER TRANSLATION) he substituted the air in for exhaust gas. why? Because is much easier (KISS) to make a pulse of fix width that changes only in frequency (rpm) than is to create a pulse that changes frequency and also width right ?

If the pressure of the cell is fix and the quenching circuit works the way i proposed it becomes obvious that he stated 7.4ul per injection cycle because for every injection cycle you will inject the same amount of hydrogen. The amount of gas injected will be controlled by the rpm since as you add exhaust gas the RPM will change REDUCE automatically.

He probably had a sensor on the valves that every time the intake valve open the solenoid opens for 4ms injecting the gas  as i said 13,3ml of hydrogen oxygen gas per injection...
than on the intake he probably used a kind of three way switch that has the air input and also the exhaust return... he than just regulated the speed rotating the switch... Isn't it very simple?

All is needed here now is to calculate the pressure needed to be maintained on the cell for having this amount of gas passing inside the quenching circuit in this predetermined time at a velocity greater than as he stated 350cm/second.
here is a link with a calculator i'm studying :
http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/airflow/index.htm

pressure in the cell is free so you can use it so no need for gas pump.

Right you also understood well the 2,5 times more powerful comparison is (by) volume but or also more probably or precisely (BY) weight...

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 21:12:25 pm
well said seb..  i understand your perspective on injection time now..  makes sense...
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 23:46:58 pm
sebosfato,your getting Stans systems mixed up.The injection of 7.4ul is water through the water injectors,and not the gas injectors with the quenching tubes.Two different systems.Those injection numbers are for the water injection system,that injects water into the injector at the spark plug hole and it explodes coming out of the injector directly into the cylinder.
He's not talking about injecting hydroxy gasses into the injectors.
Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor syste
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2010, 02:44:21 am
i know but its the same. however even working with gas meyer used solenoids and injectors to run his buggy.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 10:41:12 am
hello,

some mental gymnastics on the air processor, my thoughts:
How to go about making one knowing it will work? well surely stan had a way of calculating what was needed. Instead of just attempting to copy the picture, i am wondering a few things.

For the air intake diameter used on the engine cc size for the volume of air to be passed through it, for the voltage intensifier coil windings to be calculated, do we have any ballpark idea of what may have been the intended voltage across the positive and negative voltage zones in the air processor and possibly any clue on the shape of the s/s electrodes? (an air capacitor with a moving medium)

ie is there a requirement for a particular length of electrode to provide a contact area for a minimum length of time to obtain the intended effect.?

For the electrodes, is there any preferred or given distance between the electrodes with relation to the voltage zone and voltage used.

in the air processor, for the voltage intensifier coils seen in the pictures (on site here somewhere) is there any know way to figure out how many windings are required - also noticed the air passes through the centre of the voltage intensifier.

At the opposite end, how many windings would be needed to be an effective pickup coil for the electron extractor..

The air processor seen in the pictures may work on the 1.6l buggy - but not all engines are that size. so im posting these thoughts to ponder - if the above items could be worked out somehow, could there be a way of calculating a way to make, say, a larger diameter air processor for a larger engine.

cheers
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 12:33:44 pm
and googling the dielectric value of aire comes up

The dielectric strength of air is approximately 3 kV/mm. Its exact value varies with the shape and size of the electrodes and increases with the pressure of the air.

so question to ponder is - what is the voltage required to perform the ionisation function.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 16:00:37 pm
I don't think that you understand the usage of the air gas processor.It does not process all of the air going into the engine.It only does a small amount.This processed air is injected under the throttlebody along with exhaust gas recirculation.Also the idle control air is added in there as well to control the engines idle spped.So you have ionized air,exhaust gasses and metered air,all going in under the throttlebody,in the vacuum area.

The air gas processor.tubes are the same size as the resonant cell.3 inches long.To ionize the air several thousand volts will be needed.

Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 16:59:45 pm
Don, did the gas processor use the same VIC as the 3" wfc tubes?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 18:57:40 pm
I didn't see anything hooked to the processor.I can only assume that the vic coil would be very similar.
Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 22:04:49 pm

in the Hydrogen Gas gun, do you know where the primary is? we see two coils at the bottom and one at the top. Any guess on the wire gage?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2011, 22:42:58 pm
I don't know anything about that unit.Couldn't tell which wires went where.Can't help out any.
I don't think that it was ever used.

Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2011, 01:45:27 am
if it wasn't used then might it have been a second one? and the original is away with the stacked cavity unit?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2011, 16:25:51 pm
My guess would be it was the only one,but then the one in Meyers slides shows a sticker on it,and maybe a different one.The one I saw didn't look like it ever had a sticker on it,could still have been the same one though.
Don
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2011, 17:14:27 pm
Can you offer any description of the control labels, switches, buttons and stuff that are on this controller for the stacked cavity assembly?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Frequencygenerator.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/fractionation_controller.jpg)

These are the only two pictures I have on the control box...
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2011, 09:58:16 am
I don't think that you understand the usage of the air gas processor.It does not process all of the air going into the engine.It only does a small amount.This processed air is injected under the throttlebody along with exhaust gas recirculation.Also the idle control air is added in there as well to control the engines idle spped.So you have ionized air,exhaust gasses and metered air,all going in under the throttlebody,in the vacuum area.

The air gas processor.tubes are the same size as the resonant cell.3 inches long.To ionize the air several thousand volts will be needed.

Don

I remember in one video he says  11 percent.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 07, 2011, 01:03:16 am

in the Hydrogen Gas gun, do you know where the primary is? we see two coils at the bottom and one at the top. Any guess on the wire gage?

The coils at the bottom and the top were there to create a magnetic field that would increase the speed of the ejected electrons through the cavity and get them more quickly to the extraction grid at the output to make sure the electrons were extracted before they fell back to their ground state in the atomic orbits

the patent and video speaks of electromagnetic waves,  those are the coils that provide electron acceleration once the electrons are free from n=infinity in the ionization energy scheme.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 05:53:44 am
Does anyone know if Stan had success in running an engine using the water injector?
For practical purposes of actually making an injector/ plug what would be a suggested drawing to work from?

thanks :)

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 11:04:31 am
Does anyone know if Stan had success in running an engine using the water injector?
For practical purposes of actually making an injector/ plug what would be a suggested drawing to work from?

thanks :)

Many people many opinions.
I personnally think he did ran with water injectors.
People close to Stan confirmed this.
Others standing further from him, deny.

Another thing: Stan presented that injector on seminars. You just do not such things if you havent anything working, in my opinion. So many people......and then presenting a hoax? I dont think so....

Steve

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 12:52:04 pm
Hi Steve,
Thanks, I agree. To my mind on the vehicles with fuel injection theres a challenge to overcome - with a cell the option is to run a hybrid diesel/petrol and cell install or a 100% setup. In the hybrid setup some put the hho supply before the buttryfly, some connect directly to the intake manifold, the latter meaning that fuel savings / efficiency relies upon less opening of the butterfly, there are also complications with vacumm on a cell....and so on. What I found with my first install was no matter what I did, the fuel consumption of the vehicle was tied to the air flow meter, throttle position sensor, oxy sensor temp sensors and the map of the ecu and engine spark timing.

I found  obd1 vehicles are just tough to play with the ecu unless the tools to modify are available, particularly so as auto gearboxes have their ecu linked to the main ecu......

so thats why im thinking the injector is the way to head to as the injector timing would already be there to be used from the ecu.....
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2011, 07:08:50 am
For practical purposes of actually making an injector/ plug what would be a suggested drawing to work from?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2011, 15:14:00 pm
Any pointers gratefully received thanks, it is fabulous to witness the substantial theory being worked out on the tube/plate fuel cells but imho to be free is to have a way to practically install something in a vehicle, thats why I am asking. Thanks
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2011, 07:37:44 am
Good morning members. I've attached a PDF called "Eureka Fuel" after a reply I did over at watercar@yahoogroups.com earlier today. Even if the knowledge about the subject's been known for a few years, I thought I would post it here as well before anyone ells claimed the right to it, as it happened before. Not claiming I am the inventor, but rather letting people know that I was part of discovering the events taking place and allowing more individuals to become aware of the knowledge.
I am happy to help further the understanding of the process. So enjoy the information in this document and have a nice day.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2011, 08:51:43 am
" The months past and an engine project was showing problems when using Hydroxy gas generated as is from the electrolyser. Water had formed in the oil proving that Hydrogen molecules had passed beyond the piston-rings and bonded with Oxygen, and power development was also in the lower region due to the fact that the flame front burned too fast - the same problem as many others have. Tests was done with compressed and pure H2 but the problem remained - water was formed in the oil, and this was a bad thing. This problem had to be addressed, a solution had to be found. "

Hi Iontruster, I was wondering when others would see such a problem.

I would suggest treat the oil and improve boundary lubrication, the product to use is Powerup NNL690.

Use google to locate a distributor.

3% Powerup added to the engine oil does in fact substantially increase the film strength and boundary lubrication. I can tell you I have seen friction tests done and its simply amazing - their grease is simply excellent for bearings.

There is also another bonus - with Powerup in the oil - as I have seen, water does not separate into the layers causing problems - any good Powerup distributor can show the friction tests on their tester machine and show how water in oil is much different with Powerup added. That is why anyone putting any wfc on their engine I think should at a minimum treat their oil to ensure the friction barrier remains intact.

By adding a dose of powerup in the fuel(petrol or diesel at a ratio of 1/2ml powerup per litre of fuel) a upper cylinder boundary lubrication is kept - i would say give it a go.

Thanks for a very interesting document
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2011, 22:56:16 pm
"and power development was also in the lower region due to the fact that the flame front burned too fast - the same problem as many others have. Tests was done with compressed and pure H2 but the problem remained"

I can think of two other reasons for that.

-chamber walls are too hot and ignite the h2 uppon contact..... too early. Add some water vapour to the intake air to cool the engine down. Google that.
-ignition timing has to be changed because h2 combusts more rapidly than gas/patrol

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2011, 23:11:10 pm
"and power development was also in the lower region due to the fact that the flame front burned too fast - the same problem as many others have. Tests was done with compressed and pure H2 but the problem remained"

I can think of two other reasons for that.

-chamber walls are too hot and ignite the h2 uppon contact..... too early. Add some water vapour to the intake air to cool the engine down. Google that.
-ignition timing has to be changed because h2 combusts more rapidly than gas/patrol

Yes, there might be multiple reasons why the problems were present, but I was working on a distance and could not be there, I had limit methods of solving the problem. But did so in a chemical way as you've read.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 08, 2011, 05:20:21 am
@ wfchobby

Contact me - re_crea_06@hotmail.com

regards
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2011, 14:28:08 pm
In regards to US Patent # 1,431,047, the 1922 patent of the guy who later started Duracell Corp.

@ Line 52; Nascent Hydrogen is the same as Atomic. It is probably not an ion since ion is either less or more electrons, so note - atomic equals same amount of electrons as in it's ground state or singular atom state.
@ line 61/62: He clearly speaks of an electrochemical event known as transmutation as described in my prior article concerning ammonia (NH3), ammonium hydroxide (NH4-OH+) and nitrous oxide (N2O), but here carbon monoxide (CO) is priming gas and upon contact will form Formaldehyde (CH2O) - in remark to this - if carbon monoxide or dioxide is present in the air gases, there is also a possibility that the style and construction of Meyers apparatus could produce this chemical.

But it is very clear that what Samuel Ruben is describing is an apparatus were hydrogen and oxygen gas is liberated through electrolysis and are also allowed to react with other incoming air gases in a manor which is known by ionization by electrical stimulation.
The reason why Formaldehyde might be formed is of the fact that Salt - probably normal table salt with the chemical formula NaCl (where C is Chloride) is used. NaCl is by many used as an electrolyte and whereby one of the byproducts is Chlorine gas (Cl) - chlorine gas is a reactive gas and very toxic - created in the process. Therefor it is always recommended to use Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) as the electrolyte (I use the opportunity to mention this if anyone is experimenting with electrolysis). Sodium Hydroxide do not react in the same manor as NaCl does and the added amount of NaOH will remain in the water bath meaning, there the amount of NaOH will remain constant and not consumed as it will re-new and balance the chemical reaction.
Looking at the Meyer style of hydrogen and oxygen production, there is no added chemical in relationship to standard Faraday electrolysis (basic electrolysis uses current to split water using electron collision - optimum electrolysis is 1.24-2V @ X amount of amp were voltage is only used as a current flow stimulation) and hence, no additional gases are evolved beside H2 and O2. For this reason together with the developed ionization method for said gases are used, the method is no longer ionization by electrolysis but rather more commonly known as Voltrolysis whereby voltage and harmonic oscillation is used in order to induce a covalent breakup between the oxygen and hydrogen constituting the water molecule. Depending on the water used in Voltrolysis, additional gases can be developed that is similar to standard Electrolysis since the presence of carbon in the water bath can induce a reaction with the liberated hydrogen and oxygen. But since no extra carbon chemical is added, the amount of possible hydrocarbon combinations is in the lower regions or highly limited.

As a side note, there is always the possibility that said chemicals can be evolved and found in a system where the prior art of gas development in line with these debates are possible and can therefor not be discarded all together. It is on the other hand more likely that the mentioned fuel and oxidizer is developed. It is therefor important to know that using a system where hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen is used as priming gases, we can conclude that carbon might be presented in the gases in a range of different chemicals. It is also normal to measure carbon in water at some percentage as long as we allow air gases to be exposed to and absorbed by the water, this also concludes that water used in a system installed in a car that are using non treated and incoming air (containing pollution - COx diluted air) will at some point in the system introduce this to the process. It is on the other hand quite hard to control the entire reaction of chemicals produced since the system is exposed to the outside environment. We also have the fact that different places on this planet contain a variety and amount of chemicals present in the air and when looking at this system in the manor I have presented here, we can fairly easy understand that we must leave some room for other chemicals developed.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2011, 21:10:24 pm
Thanks for the pdf.

I also had contact with Edward and with Tutanka.
There have been many discussions on how to create a possible new mix of gasses.
For sure, if you can ionize nitrogen and remove the freed electrons!, then maybe the ionized atom will attack the hydrogens electron.

I have achieved myself a better burnrate of H and O with help of ionized ambient air. Meaning Nitrogen and oxygen.
My engine much better, like 25% more power then on HHO and normal ambient air.
So, yes. Thats a good direction to research into.

Tutanka seems to have build plans ready, but he is asking 200 euro's for them, which is a lot of money for a normal Joe.
But is his reactor really works, then its worth every penny.

That might happen. I havent seen it in my tests, but those engines never ran longer then 1 hour orso.
For sure, a normal ICE is not build for water..... ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2011, 21:41:27 pm
@ Steve.

I advice you to read my described reaction again. Notice that there are no freed electrons. You are mixing my and Edwards concept. All I do is to create nascent or atomic nitrogen - note: I do not take away electrons, that would make the process of ammonia and nitrous oxide formation impossible. All I do is to create a situation where available space within the atomic nitrogen can be re established using available electrons in the hydrogen atom.

The reactor Alessandro is promoting was developed together with Michael Nunerlay and was a terminated collaboration in the same style that me and Alessandro had.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2011, 21:50:58 pm
@ Steve.

I advice you to read my described reaction again. Notice that there are no freed electrons. You are mixing my and Edwards concept. All I do is to create nascent or atomic nitrogen - note: I do not take away electrons, that would make the process of ammonia and nitrous oxide formation impossible. All I do is to create a situation where available space within the atomic nitrogen can be re established using available electrons in the hydrogen atom.

The reactor Alessandro is promoting was developed together with Michael Nunerlay and was a terminated collaboration in the same style that me and Alessandro had.

Thank you Iontruster for pointing that out to me. I apologise for not reading proper your post.
Let me ask you the same question as i did towards Alesandro.
Have you build such reactor that re-establishe the atoms with all available electrons?
I find it very fascinating!

Steve

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2011, 22:54:24 pm
unfortunately I have not, due to the lack of funding. There is however other experiments that prove the formation of ammonia in a similar environment that S.A.Meyer is using and talking about. I will however when time comes perform a crud setup in order to prove my own theory. I can not disclose any further information regarding this at the moment.
For the time being, even if I am convinced that ammonia and possibly nitrous oxide can be formed in the style and manor described will work, it is simply a matter of creating an environment that will promote the reaction, and that might in the end require a some changes to the method in use - this can be pressure and time such similar to the style Michael and Alessandro displayed. I do not have any plans on purchasing the plans Alessandro are offering, but if you are, let me know and maybe I can help you.

My conceptual design is not available in the public domain since this method (apparatus) might grant me a patent and is also more focused in terms of conversion efficiency and do in fact collect the knowledge a bit better.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2011, 12:45:47 pm
hmm, I couldn't find much infos in this thread. Could somebody explain to me what this is all about? What is the goal?.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2011, 13:38:46 pm
@ Lektor

Well, you could read Meyers patents in regards to EGR and Gas Processor and then read the PDF I wrote located in Reply #35 - page 8, that should help you understand what it is.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2011, 09:51:53 am
Hello,
Just returned back on that forum..  All start processing water and nitrogen. Meyer inside papers is obsessed from solar irradiation and non-combustible molecule (nitrogen) because have found an simple interaction from these when bombarded with uv beam. Initially Meyer use WFC cell producing brown gas and after use charge water vapour for semplify method. In all case thermal explosive energy isn't based on lost electrons as Meyer wrote but on new fuel formation. As you know brown gas don't have enough power for run an engine at 100% also if is reduced to atomic state. Brown gas born from water and  is water to gas state. Some peoples ask that inside brown gas are present other molecules like O3 and H3+, isn't correct. For obtain these you need an electro-catalyst (on cathode/anode). HOH (right brown gas composition) is just water gas with extra electrons and are these responsibles of interactions with some metals,etc..
Brown gas = electricity+water
Brown gas+ignition = electricity+water
HOH is just an CAPACITOR GAS. Yes... burn but don't have enough power needed for our applications because is just an water gas molecule, an transition molecule. Is important understand that.
The simple key of Meyer is that nitrogen is ionized in presence of water gas (extremely reactive) when togheter are irradiated from specific UV field, subsequently water gas molecules are splitted simply with another UV field.  You need two different UV wavelenghts as Meyer ask in some documents (see attached) but wavelenghts indicated are wrong!!
Some peoples ask about catalyst for obtain new fuel molecules like ammonia and nitrous oxide. Yes ..normally you need an catalyst that releases electrons for obtain new molecules formation but in our case we have capacitor water gas that released extra electrons accumulated inside needed for obtain right reaction.
In all case THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY is formed from ammonia and nitrous oxide trough that chemical formula:
8N2+6HOH+Hv=4NH3+6N2O
In internet you can found simply an pdf that  40% of ammonia and 60% of nitrous oxide are burned with only 0,07mJ releasing a lot of energy power in that way you don't need extra H2 as written from Patrick alias Iontruster alias Oneminde. See chemical formula above.. Is casually that are created same stechiometric percentages of NH3/N2O from water and nitrogen? Surely not!!
In that way for reach simply the same results of Meyer you need low percentage of HOH, nitrogen molecular and just one UV reactor. For build that you can use UV lamp or UV power led, not difference.
Regards
Alessandro

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2011, 10:18:01 am
Hi Tut,

Thanks for posting here again.
You are saying that the trick is to use hho in combination with ambient air, mix it and then put them thru uv light?

How much led power would we need?
1, 100watts?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2011, 10:42:07 am
As in chemical formula use only nitrogen and you obtain stechiometric mixture in the time..
Nitrogen extracted from air trough membrane..

Brown gas mixed with nitrogen and sended inside UV reactor.. Yes.. after you obtain new fuel that I have called micronic formed from ammonia and nitrous oxide.

With formula you can simply calculate right amount of nitrogen mole mixed with water gas mole for obtain new fuel formation

About UV...Low wattage.. 10W max are ok..  UV beam is only important, better use lens or little gap from UV irradiation.. no more heat you need during the process

With UV reactor you can create in real time micronic gas and sent inside engine directly without special injector.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2011, 14:10:21 pm
About Patrick alias Iontruster alias Oneminde

Inside eureka pdf document is written:So I proposed this new chemical formation to Tutanka (Alessandro) and be hold. He back stabbed me and took all the credit, releasing this material in Energeticforum.com under his alias.

These statements are completely false! Him contact me for obtain informations for build and sell reactor but when I have understand that I have immediately cut any contact with him trough skype and also I have written that on energeticforum.com.
Project of Patrick or Oneminde was build an voltrolisys cell for creation of brown gas based on Meyer documents but surely don't have reached the success because this type of person don't create anything just copy .
However I am really disgusted by this kind of people who unfortunately are on the internet and stealing the work of others.
Attached photos are of my system mounted for powered an cogenerator of 500kW.
Mr. Patrick (alias Oneminde on energeticforum.com) please sent also you photos of yours system, you don't have written that are you the creator of micronic gas??

Unfortunately for oneminde all remain written on forums, I have just spent two minutes for found these:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5381-ammonia-nh3-fuel-car-3.html#post86852
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5381-ammonia-nh3-fuel-car-3.html#post86877
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5381-ammonia-nh3-fuel-car-3.html#post86889
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5381-ammonia-nh3-fuel-car-3.html#post86896
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2011, 18:31:05 pm
Hi Tut,

Did you run that hugh engine on HHO and micronic fuell alone?
No diesel or petrol, or whatever?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2011, 00:51:43 am
Micronic gas can run an engine completely, cogenerator 500kw is based on 20.000cc diesel engine and need every oil for start combustion. For legislative italian laws at this time cogenerators can use only 30% of green fuels as additive the other 70% must be oil or diesel. Attached extract from scientific document on NH3-N2O interaction.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2011, 15:43:00 pm
OTHER METHOD FOR GENERATION OF BROWN GAS
At today you can found only faraday electrolyzers on market but as you know problem is high amount of energy needed for obtain properly reaction. At this time no more solutions are presents on internet, also Bob Boyce an guru on brown gas production don't have found another way and for low amount of gas produced use an large amount of energy and every the electrolyte inside water including some heat produced. At today I know that one or maybe two companies in the world are working on development on meyer cell. Initially working in tandem with Mike Nunnerley I'm starting project of reactor for creation of ammonia/nitrous oxide, we obtain these molecules in output but that system is composed from many stages. I had long planned to use the brown gas, the feeling that I was eliminated by simplifying the way the various stages of production of new fuel.   The brown gas has always fascinated me, and I have performed many experiments cannot deny that I broke two cells during the experiments. In any case I never had time to do experiments at the university to see what was actually Brown's gas. But today I can tell you with absolute certainty that the brown gas is only "charged water",  to change state from liquid to gas. With the brown gas I solve two problems, the proper mix of water with nitrogen and the other can eliminate the catalyst that emits electrons. The major problem still remained the production of gas. So I got to thinking, in my mind hundreds of readings of Meyer and Puharich and to the concepts of my reactor, all mixed together when all of a sudden I had the right inspiration. Puharich uses water and salt for the simple reason that the only water is "transparent" to radio waves. The water when it is "filtered sometimes"  is a very good dielectric. however the dielectric can be "doped". The dielectric can be used as an good emitter of free electrons, free electrons can be used to create an effect called "electron avalanche", but consider that water is also our source of hydrogen and oxygen then using this method the water dissociates itself. Two images are attached, first is extracted from patent 5,149,407 of Stan Meyer, second new cell in working state. The method I use does not differ much from Meyer the only difference that I used a completely different low voltage power supply and connected differently to the points A/B. I always thought that Stanley Meyer was a genuine genius, perhaps a bit too complicated, probably each of us has a vision and sometimes we think too "complicated" and the best thing is to think simply. Thank you for your attention. Regards Alessandro

P.S.
With the informations I have provided above an open mind will be able to build my same cell
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2011, 22:04:47 pm
THAT IS A NEW GAME FOR ALL PEOPLES
FOUND WHAT IS THE RIGHT MEYER CIRCUIT AND YOU WIN THE TRUTH!!

First circuit is extracted from Patent 5,149,407

Second circuit extracted from Meyer Full Data document

Why the circuit cell connection on patent is different from the other?? What is the true and false?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 00:55:40 am
Alessandro,

The circuits look the same, except for the fact that they connect the electrodes on a different manner.
Electrons flow from negative to positive.
If the goal is to extract free electrons from water, then my first guess will be the drawing with the positive connection hooked up to the outer tube.

Is this the anser?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 01:18:13 am
Steve,
you're the only one who replied. I probably have not been clear. you do not have to extract electrons from water but the water itself as a dielectric creates free electrons inside when electrically charged. The phenomenon is called dielectric absorption but you need an water bi-distilled for obtain best results and right PH. The second is the correct circuit (positive on outer tube) so it is clear that the first circuit included within the patent has been manipulated.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 01:23:11 am
Steve,
you're the only one who replied. I probably have not been clear. you do not have to extract electrons from water but the water itself as a dielectric creates free electrons when electrically charged. The phenomenon is called dielectric absorption but you need an water bi-distilled for obtain best results and right PH. The second is the correct circuit (positive on outer tube) so it is clear that the first circuit included within the patent has been manipulated.

Thank you for sharing this, but what is then left over to know?
Are you suggesting that we should use salt as catalist?
And what about the driving circuit with the famous chokes?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 01:34:53 am
HI Steve,
you have the solution right before your eyes. You need to use salt only if you use RF inside the cell. You do not need even a catalyst, you have enough extra electrons when the brown gas dissociates to liberate hydrogen and oxygen. you just need to figure out what is the dielectric absorption, and that kind of power supply you must use. For this you get to study but not for a long time to fully understand how it works. with respect to water is essential that both bi-distilled and has a pH less than 7 for properly ammonia creation. About chokes..  these can be eliminated for the moment, I don't use these..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 16:28:56 pm
NITROGEN/WATER GAS REACTION INSIDE UV REACTOR

SEE DIAGRAM ATTACHED
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 16:55:01 pm
Interesting! I appreciate, your theory. Is clear you are working hard and seriously in it. For me the explanation why you get more power than you put in is because is a catalyzed reaction, (maybe almost spontaneous) so you probably just photoactiwate it...

Makes lot of sense to me.

After all if i understood well, you are dissociating and later combusting the N2 with the OH to form N20 and free up H atoms that subsequently joins with N and form amonia or hydrazine...

Well since water always keeps self-ionizing itself, you get a bunch of oh atoms all the time...

This agree with the fact that you mean acid water goes better for amonia than for hydrazine...

Maybe you dissociate the N2 in a hot arc, and probably thats why you want pure N2. Otherwise you would get it oxidized which is useless for your reaction.

What intrigue me now is what you mean by "You do not need even a catalyst, you have enough extra electrons when the brown gas dissociates to liberate hydrogen and oxygen. you just need to figure out what is the dielectric absorption, and that kind of power supply you must use."

What you mean by extra electrons?

Did you tried diffusion electrodes?

What you mean here? "You need to use salt only if you use RF inside the cell." Kanzius?

Best Regards
Fabio
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 17:57:35 pm
HI Fabio,
First of all thanks for write here.
1- Water PH is very important in that process, for obtain NH3 you need PH <7.
2- You don't need arcs, plasma or some energy lost in heat for ionize nitrogen.. in that thread initially I have been write about that.. nitrogen in fact is ionized from the same water gas directly passing trough the same UV field. You need an "connection" from water gas and nitrogen or reaction can't appear.. you can ionize nitrogen in other stage but the time of ionization is very slow , another method is pre-charge nitrogen as Meyer using gas processor.
3- About catalyst .. Surely you know how catalyst work.. that is need for add ions or electrons inside reactions.. brown gas is special water gas and the extra electrons are inside molecule. When molecule split or burn released these, in our case are used for new molecule formation, instead when brown gas burn the extra electrons are used for fuse metals, vaporize metals or weld metal or other material together. Only the extra electrons are responsible for that.
4- About new cell.. In patent of Meyer some informations are wrong, some are reported on other patents for protection but all is written.. I suggest you to download meyer memo pdf file and watch the diagrams inside. Surely your eyes will notice the differences and your mind will analyze it in real time.
5- If you use RF you must use salt yes.. only 1% inside that but why you want complicate your life?
I suggest you follow the road to produce brown gas in quantities reading and looking at the diagrams carefully meyermemo pdf file within the page 84
Other suggestion.. the liquid water that you put inside cell must be pre-charged first , remember pre-charged as Meyer suggest not pre-ionized  ;)

Regards
Alessandro

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2011, 18:05:13 pm
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2011, 16:47:24 pm
sebosfato wrote:
Interesting! I appreciate, your theory. Is clear you are working hard and seriously in it. For me the explanation why you get more power than you put in is because is a catalyzed reaction, (maybe almost spontaneous) so you probably just photoactiwate it...
Yes! your concept is right, photoactivation is the key (in that case) .. when molecules of water are extremely reactive as brown gas you don't need more energy for split these but only right level of energy in that case right wavelenghts for ionization and dissociation
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 15:49:49 pm
Well, i think you are right cause you are coincidentally using same words as meyer to describe your results, like when you say water fuel gas.

I hope you can tell us more about the wave lengths involved and about the water state for the reaction.

You talk about brown gas, this confused me a lot if you are inputing the photon energy and reacting gases in a region with the electric field applied or if you are electrolyzing the water and than reacting the gas with the nitrogen with just photon...

However my best guess is that you are making all this inside an electric field and probably to maximize the surface contact the water is a fine mist of droplets or vapor.

Seems to me that you say "when molecules of water are extremely reactive as brown gas"

seems that you mean only changing the configuration of the water molecule, but not actually dissociating it is that correct?
How can you charge the water this way?

Is magnetic field required?

Thanks
BEst Regards
Fabio
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 21:21:25 pm
HI Fabio,
One diagram is better then some words!
Now you understand?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 21:33:40 pm
Diagram posted in only for understand how principle work, you need to add some stage for filter KOH (if you use that), flashback arrestor, mixing chambre,etc..
I advise you about brown gas, first of all need to filter gas from electrolyte and water vapour because you can create poison gas very dangerous for life. Second if you use brown gas as additive for your engine you destroy your engine, the time of destruction depend only from the quantity of brown gas that you sent inside.. more brown gas and you destroy your engine fasctly. I have been tested that some time ago on special engine.. main problem is the oil mixed with water that creates an product similar to soap and accelerates the formation of rust on bearings and gears. All brown gas cells actually in commerce are very dangerous for your engine and your wallet. Micronic gas is the only solution. Regards Alessandro
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 22:14:41 pm
From that movie you can understand clearly what is really brown gas.. the extra electrons releasing when brown gas burn can vaporize metals, can melt different materials o metals togheter but brown gas return every water. See video at time 7:12. Imagine the effect of water inside your engine ..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 22:34:19 pm
Nice Diagram. Thanks.

What is a water energizer?

So you are saying that you create HHO by common means than you amplify the thermal explosive energy adding the nitrogen to the mixture slowing down the burning speed and transforming the high btu in lower but with longer time?

Why you believe its HHO and not H2 and O2?

I thought you were interacting the nitrogen directly with water...

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 23:04:17 pm
Water energizer add energy to water trough uv irradiation.. see image attached
Probably I haven't explain better..   brown gas is water at gas state, that is mixed with nitrogen molecular extracted from nitrogen membrane and sended inside first UV reactor, here water gas (not liquid or vapour), extremely reactive, absorb UV energy and released that ionizing the nitrogen. Is an strange reaction but nitrogen in presence of water gas ionize very faster when is UV irradiated. When mixture ionized of HHO and nitrogen pass inside second UV reactor water gas dissociate at 95% forming ammonia and nitrous oxide thanks to extra electrons released from water gas. Using only nitrogen (and not air)you form new stechiometric fuel (40% NH3, 60%N2O)  burnable with little energy discharge (0,07mJ) and powerful three times of gasoline.
I hope that now you have understand..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2011, 23:18:40 pm
Very well my friend. I think now its clear to me... why you need two reactors?

Is these achievable using uv lamps? Or leds? x-rays? microwaves?

How much power output increase we are talking about here? I mean relating the burn of pure H2 and your micronic fuel? What exactly do you mean by 3 times that of gasoline? what is the comparative parameter?

would be possible to use pure hydrogen than to create this micronic fuel? Or it needs the complete reaction?

Cant you use the exhaust as source of nitrogen?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 00:06:30 am
HI Fabio,
One diagram is better then some words!
Now you understand?

Thanks for the drawing.

And of course, Fabio is asking all the questions that i also had...... ;)

Thanks again, Tutanka.

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 00:19:03 am
Found some pics.

Is this the type of nitrogen filter you use, Tut?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 00:42:22 am
Yes, filter is that .. correct
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 01:32:06 am
Very well my friend. I think now its clear to me... why you need two reactors?
First reactor is UV ionizer for all (water gas/nitrogen), second is UV splitting for water gas

Is these achievable using uv lamps? Or leds? x-rays? microwaves?
You can use uv lamp or leds , in all case as lens use quartz not glass

surely yes.. but you reach that using only electron avalanche method

How much power output increase we are talking about here? I mean relating the burn of pure H2 and your micronic fuel? What exactly do you mean by 3 times that of gasoline? what is the comparative parameter?
I have scientific document that prove that.. as meyer ask you need explosive energy ..

would be possible to use pure hydrogen than to create this micronic fuel? Or it needs the complete reaction?
you can use hydrogen but you need also oxygen for create nitrous oxide, don't forget that N2O is important inside that reaction.. thermal explosive energy is formed from nitrous oxide.. see my docs attached. with brown gas you have hydrogen/oxygen/extra electrons.. all in one

Cant you use the exhaust as source of nitrogen?
i don't suggest.. you need pure nitrogen and pure water gas.. you need to preserve your micronic production system for long time
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 03:05:24 am
About WFC cell some peoples ask many theories, the main is resonance of water... some peoples are working on that , on PWM circuits, to increase or decrease frequency.. change IC , add new capacitors, chokes, etc.. Personally I have an my theory that is confirmed from some experiments that I have started. For obtain more gas you need more energy power.. normally energy , see Faraday, is applied externally to circuit .. if you want generate 60LPM not problem you need some Kw but you reach success. I have found some little faraday cells on internet but the better cell that obtain 8LPM consume 1200W (50Ax24V) of power energy. Ok that is no the way.. but what is the way? Good question.. After some study and tests I have realized that the only way is electron avalanche, and I think the wfc cell of Meyer is based on that principle. But inside wfc cell I don’t find any electron emitter.. but how is possible then Meyer cell work? The answer is .. with that design meyer cell can’t work  because a piece is missing. Electrons are emitted using vacuum (not our case) or using dielectric.. the principle is called dielectric absorption. You charge and discharge the dielectric using an AC field and you reach point of break and you emits electrons. The positive field on outside tube is used for “amplify" the chain reaction inside water. We are talking of dielectric but water isn’t an best dielectric? AC is needed for dielectric absorption, DC is used as amplifier, the only lost part is electrons emitter.. you have only an outer tube and one inner tube. But what is the emitter? And why is missing? Surely for preserve Meyer secret. Can be more simple with complete drawing reproduce wfc cell. The only design where there is (hidden) the electron emitter is in that image attached. Need more fantasy for undestand how is positioned and what is the form. I have found that but only because my reactor work using same principle.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 15:51:10 pm
Fabio,
Electrons create the gas through electron avalanche
Electrons are absorbed by water gas during process
Electrons are released when the gas dissociates or burn .
Electrons are natural catalyst.
I am convinced that this is the right way  ;D
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 16:47:05 pm
Is not possible that meyer reached this multipacting effect only by using right frequency, reaching a certain tension? You really think he hide something?

I discovered that he hide magnetic fields... and i think his chokes shouldn't be coupled to be free to oscillate at different frequencies... He might use a current source in later vics cause is easier to do it solid state, in opposition to the alternator voltage source.

A voltage source have low internal impedance and can provide "infinite" amps in a short circuit, while a current source has high internal impedance provide aways the same current whatever is the impedance of the circuit so is not "fixed" voltage...Of course in real life one is a bit the other and other is a bit one-

Meyer clearly stated his method was exactly to prevent electrolysis. In my point of view it has to do with impeding the ionic and or free electrons movement inside the cell, ions walks back and forth transporting charge, creating the leakage current or the water capacitor.

For meyer system higher frequency, low conductance of the water, is desirable to be able to restrict the amps. What matters is that the resistance of the water to DC current be many times (this reason is the Q factor) bigger than the reactances... Ionic movement and electron movement are prevented the smaller is the period.

I think meyer could be applying  5v 2 amps to the resonance not to the alternator field coils...

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 17:27:06 pm
Ciao Fabio,
Nature think simply. We live thanks to the nature. Water, air, sun.. An my friend call Meyer "master of secrecy", and have right. Similarry to Leonardo da Vinci him have hidden some informations divided into some documents. Meyer was surely an great man but probably have found the wrong people. Inside documents and images that I have sended here is present every "water as dielectric", that is a clue. I'm sure that wfc work simply using dielectric absorption process. Meyer create brown gas? If yes extra electrons spiltted are presents inside. You need to focalize you on images sended yesterday from me. WFC have an ghost connection.. earth (or ground using an car). Meyer use AC not negative field in inner electrode and filter that on outer tube simply adding an hv diode trasforming in positive half field. But for create best electron avalanche you need ground. The key? Meyer use variable HV power supply using step-up transformer.. and hidden component inside WFC.. connected to only earth. Fabio I have spent years and  some moneys for study and  realized prototypes , my is private work .. but ...I want indicate to you the right way  because every one must be independent for energy creation but I can't sent you my plans.  You need to read better my words and after reassume all on paper. I hope you understand my point of view.. Regards Alessandro
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 17:53:13 pm
I succeeded in doing electrolysis of distilled water doing this thing of putting ac in the inner electrode and positive on the outer... however I didn't achieved a huge production... look at this image… the problem is that the resonance was getting back in the primary and burning the mosfet so i stop working on that.

I'm ahead that meyer use this mystic ground but anyone could understand it well, i believe it to be the mounting ground of the cell (plastic insulation)... And i succeeded in oscillating the tuned coil with this capacitance between the inner cell and a "ground" electrode outside the insulated cell..

What would be a hiden component? a barium titanate? a magnet? a coil? the laser?

I researched about every terms you talked about, to fully understand what you are saying, however still not clear the dielectric absorption process you mean.

I also believer Meyer found the wrong people, cause i know who also found them...

B.Regards
Fabio
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:08:21 pm
Yes, don't work because you have the high resistance produce from distilled water. You need an ELECTRON EMITTER inside WFC cell.
Seem that you don't read my words.. dielectric absorption and electron avalanche.. you need to start from here.. You have to understand how work. On internet are presents great examples.. need that you open your mind.. forget Meyer papers for an second. Your mind must be think independently from these papers.

"The force of the free electrons is then enhanced by dielectrophoresis and electrophoresis acting in a nonuniform electric field (positive field) , resulting in the electrons being forced at a high velocity into a small volume surrounding the 'emitter device'. Such a device or configuration can be set up anywhere, on any scale - even inside a liquid providing the liquid is a dielectric."

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:17:35 pm
Yes, don't work because you have the high resistance produce from distilled water. You need an ELECTRON EMITTER inside WFC cell.
Seem that you don't read my words.. dielectric absorption and electron avalanche.. you need to start from here.. You have to understand how work. On internet are presents great examples.. need that you open your mind.. forget Meyer papers for an second. Your mind must be think independently from these papers.

"The force of the free electrons is then enhanced by dielectrophoresis and electrophoresis acting in a nonuniform electric field (positive field) , resulting in the electrons being forced at a high velocity into a small volume surrounding the 'emitter device'. Such a device or configuration can be set up anywhere, on any scale - even inside a liquid providing the liquid is a dielectric."

Do you use a spark gap as electron transmitter,Tut?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:23:47 pm
NO! Any discharge inside. You need to create electrons flow inside. Need that you study dielectric absorption if you want really found the way. I repeat me .. You need and ELECTRON EMITTER INSIDE!

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:25:51 pm
A kind of coating?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:32:45 pm
If you coating your wfc cell internally to outer tube and externally to inner tube  you create an simple DBD reactor.. but not an electron emitter.

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 18:34:06 pm
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 21:06:01 pm
Attached some types of DBD (Dielectric Barrier Discharge) Reactors
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 21:17:12 pm
Fabio,
Inside your circuit I don't see any step-up transformer? How many voltage you produce? Inner electrode must be converted into electron emitter and outer tube must have positive field.   But you need high voltage for process dielectric water not low voltage. Free electrons, generated from electron emitter, must have high speed, they must impacts on  molecules  to knock of more electrons. HV Positive field on outer tube increase electrons speed. Now is more clear or you want that I sent you complete plans including UV reactor for micronic gas production? ;D
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 21:46:41 pm
What you are saying is that the stainless steel inner electrode will become an electron emitter at a certain alternating negative tension applied to it?

Negative relative to what?

The complete plans would be great  :)

I reached 6,000 between the inner electrode and the outside of the cell having yet 800 between the tubes... I got gas with very pure "distilled" water... however was too small production..and burning lots of transistors...   is not so trivial

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 22:03:44 pm
Meyer use variable HV power supply using step-up transformer.. and hidden component inside WFC.. connected to only earth.

I am still trying to visualize what you mean exactly here.

HM
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 22:05:29 pm
You don't need fixed voltage but tunable voltages and fixed frequency.
Water is earth, inner electrode is AC outer electrode is HV positive field.
Water is the dielectric, liquid electrode and hydrogen/oxygen source at the same time!!
Inner electrode is inside dielectric (connected to earth) !!
See how work electron generator of Patrick Flanagan.. you don't watch better!!!!
If now you don't have understand I sent you plans  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2011, 22:56:38 pm
Something like this ?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2011, 00:19:03 am
yes, the truth is very close!

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2011, 11:07:00 am
Best example of Alex Petty circuit.. him have understand the way but forget ground inside water (casually?)

However for obtain best results you need AC/DC (rectifier diode) heterodyne circuit.. suggest to use half-bridge driver simple and functional   :)
Merge all of these togheter and you obtain right process.

WFC can be designed differently for semplify and amplify the electron cascade and for solve high voltage discharges inside.
Remember that WFC in fact is an capacitor with metal around.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2011, 18:15:54 pm
Hi Tut,

The schematic of Petty is not different then Meyers schematic.
So you are saying that if we have a ground hooked up to the negative innertube, we will see magic?
Do you have such a setup working?
Maybe its time for a little youtube movie as demonstration?

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2011, 19:28:51 pm

The WFC is an DBD reactor how INNER tube is coated (dielectric) outer tube not.
The circuit connection is OPEN and diode have function of half rectifier only.
Puharich use only RF , Meyer use voltage with heterodyne (two different pulsed frequencies inside cell).
Nothing is magic but all have an sense. You have to understand that ONLY water is grounded not INNER ELECTRODE. WFC is an open cell because electrons stripped have important function inside.
If you change an little design and material of WFC you increase a lot gas production using electron cascade process. Patrick Flanagan is an better example, him charge an "dielectric from two plates, all is covered from dielectric".   In fact "covered dielectric" is our water and is the ground at the same time. Jean Naudin have covered inner electrode using an dielectric .. Extracted from Naudin web site:

"The center electrode of the WFC v1.0 has been covered with a thin adhesive plastic sheet so has to get a fully insulated cathod"

Naudin circuit isn't good because cathode is connected to ground and in that way dielectric absorption don't work!!

INNER ELECTRODE MUST BE AC!!
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2011, 22:35:31 pm

The WFC is an DBD reactor how INNER tube is coated (dielectric) outer tube not.
The circuit connection is OPEN and diode have function of half rectifier only.
Puharich use only RF , Meyer use voltage with heterodyne (two different pulsed frequencies inside cell).
Nothing is magic but all have an sense. You have to understand that ONLY water is grounded not INNER ELECTRODE. WFC is an open cell because electrons stripped have important function inside.
If you change an little design and material of WFC you increase a lot gas production using electron cascade process. Patrick Flanagan is an better example, him charge an "dielectric from two plates, all is covered from dielectric".   In fact "covered dielectric" is our water and is the ground at the same time. Jean Naudin have covered inner electrode using an dielectric .. Extracted from Naudin web site:

"The center electrode of the WFC v1.0 has been covered with a thin adhesive plastic sheet so has to get a fully insulated cathod"

Naudin circuit isn't good because cathode is connected to ground and in that way dielectric absorption don't work!!

INNER ELECTRODE MUST BE AC!!

Hi Tut,

Still i dont have the full picture, i think.

Steve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_barrier_discharge
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2011, 00:02:19 am
HI Steve,
Connections are wrong. You can use one (same diagram of Alex) or two different HV power supply, on flyback with diode, one flyback without diode  and only one common ground connected inside water. Important is that INNER ELECTRODE must be powered with AC variable HV source
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2011, 00:31:00 am
STEP-UP TRANSFORMER..

NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2011, 00:55:56 am
STEP-UP TRANSFORMER..

NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?

Thanks, Tut.
Now i understand. ;) ;) ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2011, 14:40:34 pm
Thanks Tutanka,

What do you suggest as to earthing the waterbath. Can we use a mesh tube in between the electrodes like shown in the pic attached?
And what material do you suggest as for insulating the center electode?

HM
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 00:41:21 am
Hello,
Not waterbath but only water.. Mesh tube can be an interested solution but is suggested from?? as dielectric you can use ceramic, glass, plexiglass, etc..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 01:27:46 am
If you want use mesh tube you need to change an little internal design of WFC or you obtain some discharges from positive to mesh tube (grounded). Regards Alessandro
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 08:34:51 am
Do you think that earthing the water inlet of the cell (i.e. the water entering the cell) does the job ? the less complicated is better ;D

HM
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 10:08:02 am
I don't think that you have put mesh tube casually.. There is a reason for this. Maybe you can explain to all.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 11:28:12 am
No I just tought about it.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 12:25:48 pm
Can be that you had good intuition.. however you can use mesh tube as ground but need right gap from inner and outer tube.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 17:10:28 pm
So now the question is what are the right gaps in between?
Should we place the ground mesh in the exact middle between the inner and outer tube or should it be closer to the inner insulation of the inner tube?
Attached i posted a picture with the mesh exactly in the middle between electrodes just for visual perpose.
Another thing we can notice is that we have less capacitance between the electrodes now because of the mesh area in the middle.
Something else to think about is that Steven Meyer used a 3 electrode setup  :o

HM
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 17:46:13 pm
From outer to mesh tube 5mm of gap from mesh tube to inner 2mm of gap
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2011, 22:43:21 pm
The mesh tube has a sense it is no coincidence that it is put inside.
The operational cycle of the device, illustrated in the diagram, consists of two stages.
Initially, a discharge is produced between mesh tube (3) and the
dielectric (2) by a high voltage pulse applied to electrode (1).
Electrons flow to the dielectric and charge it Negatively,
thereby terminating the discharge. In this way, a temporary
or virtual cathode is formed on the dielectric surface.
During the second stage, the dielectric-covered electrode
(1) is switched to ground potential and a new discharge will
start. The electrons are now accelerated in the thin layer of
the cathode fall region, thereby Gaining an energy linearly
proportional to the applied voltage. The accelerated electrons
are subsequently emitted from the DBD region via a perforated
mesh tube.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 03:40:06 am
So you do need the ceramic dielectric?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 08:28:51 am
HI Fabio,
You can use all you want as dielectric.. personally I use quartz tube
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 08:36:37 am
The main problem is create perfect contact from inner electrode with dielectric.. I have solved that after few tests using an "liquid electrode", inside quartz tube I have put electrolyte solution formed from distilled water and koh. Inside tube centrally an SS316L electrode for HV energy propagation.. see diagram attached.. with this last information all of you are able to create an working cell for produce brown gas. About micronic gas.. Im sorry but for that system I can't sent you additional informations.. I hope you understand.. Regards Alessandro
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 08:37:10 am
Hi Tut

What is the thickness of the quartz tube you are using ?
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 08:40:48 am
thickness of quartz tube is 1,6-2mm
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 08:44:44 am
From 1 november 2011 I'm able to sent you all materials (including plan) for build that cell at popular price, in that way you save more time for find these on internet. Complete plan for Electron Cascade Cell is also available for personal usage at 50 euro with payment trough paypal. If you are interested sent me email to alnenc@libero.it. Regards Alessandro

P.S. Also Iontruster can buy these.. no problems
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 09:17:19 am
FOR COMPANIES ..

Plans for commercial usage are selled to different price with license.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 16:38:10 pm
Guys,

I've seen some noticeable increase in gas production by using a negative titanium outer tube with a stainless lead wire pressed against it.  The inner positive epoxy filled tube is stainless 304.  I think that the titanium makes a strong oxide coating that increases over time and builds an oxide layer that acts as a dielectric barrier.

The water stays crystal clear in this arrangement, however, when I switch polarity the iron flows out of the stainless and clouds the water quickly with red oxide.

This may be a way to build a dielectric barrier in a natural way and it works well enough for me to pursue this more.

kb
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 16:45:57 pm
If you use pure quartz tube and SS316L as perforated tube and outer tube you don't have problems. Water remain clear during the process. Work of outer tube is simple, only attraction/repulsion of free electrons for increase speed of these.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2011, 21:32:59 pm

Brown gas =water capacitor gas
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2011, 18:22:23 pm
EEC of Stan Meyer
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2011, 19:22:34 pm
I thought meyer was using corona discharge in this diagram...
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2011, 21:21:16 pm
Dielectrics information..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2011, 14:02:02 pm
I thought meyer was using corona discharge in this diagram...

Fabio,
Test corona discharge in water and see what appear after few minutes to your transformer..
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2011, 22:54:07 pm
I thought meyer was using corona discharge in this diagram...

Fabio,
Test corona discharge in water and see what appear after few minutes to your transformer..

A ballast, gear, choke, what ever you want to call it, will solve that problem.
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 23, 2011, 13:17:32 pm
Interesting topic.
I found that water become more conductive after protonation and I  conducted some experiments to further understand that in order to be applied as power source and pre-electrolysis process for my actual product line.

I have posted on You Tube some of those experiments but not rise interest! As soon I add word  "Meyer"  one of my uploads  become interesting!  ;)
What is funny that one image presented here by one member actually belongs to me!
Is a frame  from one short movie posted on You Tube and part of one of my silly experiments with HV and purified water.
Not count on it! The gas produced is insignificant for the power consumed - a good electrolysis cell can better use that power!
What I found in that experiment was that a short-cut on the cell may increase the gas production - at 220 V AC I get nice gas and - sure - bust the fuses!

I tested also ceramic ozone generators to protonate the water with different result then normal cell, posted also on You Tube!
I tested Aluminum electrode - it act as diode under AC ...

I use the term Protonation and not ionization since last one is associated  higher voltage applied to subject, usually gases.
Water not need so high voltage to be ionized unless one electrode is not coated with a dielectric layer as glass or quartz as was suggested here.
The product I will release will use that effect of protonation.

I suppose that a simple  water injection system with such a gas generator attached may be a solution for a fuel saver if purified / distilled water can be used and gas volume will be at least in the range of 1-5 LPM for acceptable power input either low voltage or high voltage.
If injectors/ nozzle  can be fixed on  EGR ( where is available or similar arrangement where is not present ) gases flow is possible to trigger the Nitrogen reaction described here as possible fuel replacement without any extra electric field.
This aspect of the use of hot exhaust gases combined with Oxy-Hydrogen gases from different types of generators is  common to most water as fuel working projects I know.

I will run a test and inject mild  Borax electrolyte and Oxy-Hydrogen gas mixture  - I use Borax for some time as KOH/NaOH replacement due the compatibility with engine parts, good lubricity and rust protection can provide - In any form water as fuel need a solution to this aspect.
I will run a test injecting Acidic water ( H3O) provided by an water ionizer ( as part of my product ) and Oxy-Hydrogen mixture of gases produced by a normal electrolytic cell as separate fluids.

I will upload the results on You Tube. To who it may concern, please indicate the source if use other people's work!

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2011, 21:03:29 pm
Welcome to the forum Kenterprise

Best Regards
Sebosfato
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2011, 23:37:43 pm
NEWS OF TODAY..

Carbon dioxide react similarry to nitrogen in presence of brown gas when irradiated from UV fields creating methane and ozone. Chemical formula is 3CO2+6HHO+Hv=3CH4+4O3
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 25, 2011, 00:28:02 am
Other italian team that use Co2, water and solar energy and convert into fuel ..

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/converting_co2_.html

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/recycleco2.aspx
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 25, 2011, 05:38:48 am
@Sebosfato
Thank you for welcome me.
The picture is named "nuova cella" at page 11 ..and my You Tube channel is "kenterprise1". Can't offer a link, I can't access YT from China, where I'm now.
I was looking "around" among the ozone generator producers and I found at least one who build a system - water cooled ozone generator - that could be easy converted into a HHO generator as Tutanka proposed. It have a inner enamel coated SS electrode, a outer SS electrode and inside a SS sintered third electrode can be fixed and grounded.
I add the PDF file with a system commercial description I get it from factory.

In any case a  ground in the " water body" is a must to create real gas..I did it on my ( silly) experiments by simply short-cutting the circuit.
On his tubes Meyer have some slices ...it could be used to increase the exposed surface of ionized water to a - missing- third electrode as ground connection? Is an idea only, I never study Meyer's systems - too complicated...
As I said I bust the fuses since I had 220 V AV/ 50 Hz variac as power source but - visually -gas production exceed anything I had before. A step-up transformer at higher frequency PWM ( or AC) may solve the problem.

I 'walk" more on Dingel way, due similarity: low technical expertise and equipment!  :P and maybe I should post there from now.
I just saw that picture and replied to clarify some things.

Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 27, 2011, 01:24:29 am
This remain a secret for me...
Title: Re: Start here your topics on the water injector & ambient airgasprocessor system
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 04, 2011, 06:19:11 am
From 1 november 2011 I'm able to sent you all materials (including plan) for build that cell at popular price, in that way you save more time for find these on internet. Complete plan for Electron Cascade Cell is also available for personal usage at 50 euro with payment trough paypal. If you are interested sent me email to alnenc@libero.it. Regards Alessandro

P.S. Also Iontruster can buy these.. no problems

Hi Tutanka
Can now you sent all materials and plan for build that cell?
andy