### Author Topic: Starting my project :Tube cell  (Read 16859 times)

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 10:48:39 am »
stevie !!!!! mathhhhhhh stevie MATH!!! hahah sorry but you just took the diameter....you just included the left side spacing and the right side spacing.....you need to take the radius!!!! NOT THE DIAMETERRRRR.....your math is right for the diameter now just divide it by 2!

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/TUBESSSSS.jpg)

Hi Kinesis,
well, As you state it like this, it looks like i done something dumn...but....
But the facts as i see are different:

http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol2/circumference.html
Diameter = 2 times the radius

WO1992007861A1.pdf page 9 and page 14
Rod of 0.5 inch outer diameter = 0.5 x 25.4 = 12.7mm
Tube of  0.75 inside diameter  = 0.75 x 25.4 = 19.05mm
Total gap = 6.35mm
Devided by 2 = 3.175mm

Gapspace is accoording to this doc of Stan 3mm.
In fact, i have those tubes here on my desk.......and they prove the same.

HOWEVER.....

On page 9 of WO 198901270A1 Stan descripes an example:
The outside cyilinder was 0.75 inch in inside diameter; the inner cylinder was 0.5 inch in outer diameter.
Spacing from the outside of the innersurface of the inside cylinder to the inner surface of the outside cylinder was 0.0625 inch.

That 0.0625 is 1.5mm.........

Well, i eat my shoe, if i know what that Meyer person wants to tell....

br
Steve
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 12:27:06 pm by stevie1001 »

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 18:36:05 pm »
If ya want to get technical about it Then

Outer Tube OD 3/4 0.7500 19.0500
Outer Wall        0.0354  0.9000

Take your 19.0500 OD in diameter Tube and subtract 0.9000 for the left wall, and subtract 0.9000 for the right wall. This leaves you with 17.25 Mili Meters

Inner Tube OD 1/2 0.5000 12.7000

Take 12.7000 Mili Meters and subtract it from 17.25 you now have 4.55 Mili Meters Free Space.

Since you have a gap on both sides of your tube then divide 4.55 by 2 to get 2.275 Mili Meters.

Stans gap was 2.2 Mili Meters.

I have researched stans tube cell for 2 years, here is some of my work. http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1194&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0&sid=6f22f4d6958be2075163fd047f8cfd4e

Being the fact that i researched the wrong tube gap, i hate to see you repeat my mistake, its not cheap.

Also, Dynodon, you stood 2 foot from stans fuel cell, you seen that the gap was not 1.5 or 1.6 Mili Meters, 2 Mili Meters is easy to determin from 1.5 Mili Meters if you're use to looking at tube gaps.

You also know that stans cell was not 3/4 in diameter but 1 inch, the tube gap is clearly bigger than 2 Mili Meters, i know without a doubt you know this!

Listen to who you want on your tube selection, i have over 2 thousand dollars invested in stans tube cells and 2 years of nothing but tinkering to boot, do what you want.

I'll tell you this, you want beat my production of .600 ML of gas per Minute using a 1.6 mm gap because your tubes want produce any more. Thats 10 cc's per second for all 12 of my tubes, or .83 cc's a second per tube where .83 cc's x 12 tubes is 9.96 cc's a second or close to 600 cc's per min.

My tubes was 6 inches tall and 1 inch in diameter,,, and im telling you now I dont care how long you make your tubes your not going to beat my production with that gap!

Your after atleast .800 cc's a min per tube where .800 x nine tubes is 7.2 Liters Per min, Cram that up your tubes!!!

Dont like my math,, open up the test of evaluation and do your own math... I've seen stans gap.

Hi Resonanceking,

Thank you very much for guiding me in the tube jungle..  Yes it can be expensive to buy wrong type of tubes..

I think you are saying we are not into ordinary electrolysis here, so thats why the gap must be bigger...

so a gap size on 1,5 mm or less will produce more gas but use more amp with a "dead short condition" and we want to split water with only voltage pulses so maybe i will go for a gap in the 2-3 mm range..

Your fuelcells looks great and is a great inspiration so thanks to you for pictures and visdom.

Best regards

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 19:00:10 pm »
Hi,

I do not want to sound like granddade, but as far as I can do math, is the tubeset of Stan with the VIC as follows:
ROD of 0.5 inch outerdiameter
Tube of 0.75 inch inner diameter.
That leaves a gap of 3mm...

As far as my and Hydrocars/resonanceking, we know that with normal electrolysis, 3mm is too big.
Max gap is 1.5mm
I suggest  you go with Resonancekings advises.

br
Steve

Hi Steve,

You dont sound like a granddade LOL... I am open to all point of veiws.

I think i will try a bigger gap than i was intend to and see if i get lucky.

Thank you for your help

Best regards

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 19:09:26 pm »
Thank you to Dynodon, Kinesisfilms,Dankie and the rest..

Please feel free to discuss tubes so much you want here.. It is interesting and even funny.

Best regards

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 20:57:38 pm »
I've been thinking about this, and I think I might just use some SS rod, .75" dia, 3-4" length, and drill a hole in it to so specific size, then take several other  3-4" long rods, and machine them down on the lathe to various diameters, to give various spacings, from .025" to .125" and see what happens, then the center rod will be solid... which I think would be just as good if not better, considering the nature of a conductor is that all the charge lies on the surface... no reason to have an inner surface at all. And then to change the spacing I can just switch out the center rod. Stan made a variable spacing cell... but this would be easy enough.

Comments on that approach?

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2009, 22:18:08 pm »
here's about a 2.5 mm gap where i used about 28 volts applied to the cell.

I just cant see a small gap doing what this gap can, 2.5 mm is all i had so thats the reason for that..

i'm not sure if its 2.5, more like 3.5,, its a big gap i have here. Outter tube 1" inner tube 1/2, so its pretty big. To big. anyways thought id share what it can do.

You are on the right track
There is no doubt in my mind anymore, this is over 1,5 mm!!!.... more like your 2,5 mm.. Stan still surprises me... this is one important piece...
And inner tubes looks thicker than the outer tubes on this picture...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 22:44:46 pm by WaytoGo »

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 01:26:52 am »
Since The patent stated .35 instead of .035 doesn't mean it was a typo, zero's are invalid and false numbers thats usually void.

It's quite obvious stan did not use a wall thickness of (7 MM, HENCE (typo .35)) but .035 Which is around 1/32 of an inch which is half the size of 1.5 Mili Meters, Thats quite thin isn't it, almost paper thin!

so at first it wasn't a typo when i said it was.....then after being proven wrong now it's a typo.....THANK YOU FOR AGREEING WITH ME THE SECOND TIME AROUND......make up your damn mind.

YES IF IT IS A TYPO THEN YOUR SUBTRACTING SKILLS ARE VERIFIED.....

here is the actual sizing of the alternator tubes....with the TYPO like i said.....and which now you have realized.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/ALTERNATORTUBES.jpg)

once again like i said the only way it will work is if it is a typo.....but nope HYDROCARZ DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT SIGNIFICANT FIGURES.....ZEROES DON'T MEAN ANYTHING AND CAN BE DROPPED.....pfffft.

oh wait now YOU Realize it......the above quotes are classic.

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##### Re: Starting my project :Tube cell
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2009, 01:38:07 am »

WO1992007861A1.pdf page 9 and page 14
Rod of 0.5 inch outer diameter = 0.5 x 25.4 = 12.7mm
Tube of  0.75 inside diameter  = 0.75 x 25.4 = 19.05mm
Total gap = 6.35mm
Devided by 2 = 3.175mm

HAHAH STEVIE YOU DID IT AGAIN!!!! REALLY IS THIS HAPPENING??? ALRIGHT LET'S END THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL

take the .5 inches diameter multiply it by 25.4 to get 12.7mm
take the .75x 25.4 = 19.05mm......
divide 12.7mm by 2....6.35mm
divide 19.05mm by 2...9.525

now subtract......the wall space from the 9.525-1.5875=7.9375

subtract 7.9375-6.35= 1.5875mm

STEVIE IS IS SIMPLE ALGEBRA.....IT'S CALLED ORDER OF OPERATIONS.....YOU CAN'T SUBTRACT OR ADD BEFORE MULTIPLYING AND DIVIDING.....ORDER OF OPERATIONS.....THIS IS 5TH GRADE STUFF......

BUT SERIOUSLY THIS IS SUCH A COMMON MISTAKE!.....

no worries stevie you just messed up with order of operations.

ANYONE ELSE STILL QUESTION THE TUBE CELL SIZE?...i will gladly help you out.

THIS IS A GREAT POST THANK YOU STEVIE THIS WAS PROBABLY A COMMON PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE!