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Stanley Meyer => Stan Meyers system 2 => Topic started by: Steve on July 26, 2014, 20:08:05 pm

Title: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2014, 20:08:05 pm
Here are all the pictures i have of the VIC's of Meyer.
All are from Don Gable. Including his notes.

Steve
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 09:13:02 am
I have some measurements to give you for the coils.
Using the above pictures as a referance the dementions are as followed.
 
The length of the large coils(left to right) 1.312 inches.
The width of the coils (top to bottom) 1.5 inches
The height of the coils(table up) 1.16 inches.
 
Coil base size measures .360 x .675 inches.
 
Length of small feedback coil (green) is.380 inches.
 
Wire size was 29 gauge .0115 inches.
 
My calculations for the primary wire is between 600-650 turns, wire resistance measured 10.5 ohms
 
Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)
 
Now get busy
Don

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Dynodon on 05 March 2011, 16:00:00
Kali'
Your way off with your turns.
 
Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms
 
Now 29 gauge wire measures 81.83 ohms per 1000 feet,so I come up with the following
 
Primary- 128 feet
Secondary and chokes- 884 feet
 
As for number of turns I come up with
Primary - 600-650 turns
Secondary and chokes - 3000-3500 turns
 
Because they are hand wound and not precision,these should be very close.
 
As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don
Quote from: Dynodon on 06 March 2011, 16:22:44
The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.
 
As for the NVR1550 diode,there is actually a MUR1550 and a MUR1560.The first is a 500 volt,and the second was a 600 volt.
 
Kali,as for your explaination of the voltage step up up 1:5 with 12 volts in and 60 volts out was a little confusing.But I believe I understand what you were getting at.
 
You are stating that if you apply 12 volts to the primary coil,with a step up ratio of 1:5 you will then get 60 volts out to the blocking diode.Now in my testing of my coils,I have a step up ratio of 1:10 or as I would put it 10:1.So if I apply 12 volts to my primary I should get 120 volts out of the secondary.Right?
 
Well when I test the output of my secondary without any load on it,I get a much greater step up than 10:1.I've seen several hundred volts.No just maybe that is what Stan is hoping for with his set up.Maybe because we are restricting amps with the choke coils that this high voltage from our secondary is able to stay high,because of the very low load.
 
Under normal step up coils we are appling loads to the secondary output which pulls the voltage down to the actual ratio of the steup.So just maybe with the chokes restricting the amps,we are able to keep this higher voltage than the stepup ratio produces.Maybe it has something to do with the coils all being on the same core that allows  this greater voltage to be produce.
 
Now again with my coil set up,of 100 turns primary,1000 turns secondary,and 2000 turns chokes,I have seen between 1kv-2kv at the cell.It it hasn't had any ill effect on the blocking diode.And my diode is the same rating as a MUR1560.
 
Thats some of my thoughts on this matter as I have seen it with my own testing.
Don

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Quote from: TonyWoodside on 01 April 2011, 08:17:24
Primary : 450 turns, 10?, Air Inductance 1.43mH, Core Inductance 8.01mH
Feedback : 450 turns, 10?, Air Inductance 2.98mH, Core Inductance 10.4mH
Secondary : 3000 turns, 78.2?, Air Inductance 87.2mH, Core Inductance 358mH
L1 : 3000 turns, 75.9?, Air Inductance 83.1mH, Core Inductance 359mH
L2 : 3000 turns, 76.9?, Air Inductance 85.5mH, Core Inductance 359mH

So the secondary side total inductance is 1076mH
My testing coils are as follows:
Prim. 850uH 1ohm 200wnd AWG23 (100ohm series resistor) coil former 35mm length max.30mm height
Sec. 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30 coil former 35mm length max.30mm height
Pickup center tapped 2x 15mH 2x11ohm  2x500wnd AWG30 coil former 20mm length max.30mm height
Choke1 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30 coil former 35mm length max.30mm height
Choke2 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30 coil former 35mm length max.30mm height
core hole 10x8mm

Copper wire insulation should sustain 2k5Volt.
Inductance depends on core material used (measured values are without core)
Going to try ferrite core ( UU core )

My wfc cell is insulated in delrin. Wires are fully insulated.
It is 2Mega Ohms 1.8nF.

br,
Webmug

--------------------

The core is a Ferroxcube U core,the largest one they make.The legs are @ 3/4 inch in diameter.
The chokes are in the 10-11 Henries ech,very high.






So......as Don once said, go testing!

Steve
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 15:41:50 pm
I´m really confuse... since this primary numbers should not allow more than 0,5 amp at the primary...

The 220ohm resistor impede the development of too high voltage at the primary that would burn the transistor...

3 resistors in parallel sums 73ohms...

I was wandering if it was a hipersil C core...
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 17:43:01 pm
http://lists.contesting.com/_amps/2005-04/msg00352.html

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 19:47:37 pm
Here is something I'll share with everyone. Work toward this. It's only pulling .02 - .01ma  at 14 volts from the power supply to get this voltage.
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 20:26:17 pm
Here is something I'll share with everyone. Work toward this. It's only pulling .02 - .01ma  at 14 volts from the power supply to get this voltage.

nice data....
thanks for sharing
impressive from such a low power..
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 22:39:19 pm
Stans core of the VIC dimensions:
Single u core = 0,27cm thick by 6,25cm wide by 6,92cm high by 1,07cm diam.....
2 u cores make 1 set for the VIC
Material: probably ferrite.
permeability +- 2,500

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 23:11:39 pm
Got one more shot, after tuning my coils a little more today, I got the full potential out of my VIC. Been running now fro over an hour now and everything is still running cold coils, transistors, ect. I think I will quit while I'm ahead. LOL
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2014, 23:29:42 pm
Got one more shot, after tuning my coils a little more today, I got the full potential out of my VIC. Been running now fro over an hour now and everything is still running cold coils, transistors, ect. I think I will quit while I'm ahead. LOL

Ron,

What kind of core are you using?
Can i buy it somewhere?

Steve
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 00:22:06 am
Sure can, http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/231356182.html
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 02:23:58 am
Sure can, http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/231356182.html

Great link up I must say !!
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 08:25:45 am
Sure can, http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/231356182.html
Thanks Ron.
The shape is different then the Meyer cores.
Is this the one you use with primary, secondairy, chokes and measure coils?

cheers

Steve
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 11:40:34 am
I use a little different concept than Stan did, but still does the same thing. I put two coils on one set of cores and two coils on another set of cores.
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 11:47:42 am
Thanks R.Walker,

I was trying to do that messing up with the coupling but is much harder...

Incredible

could you explain a little about what you believe is the effect of using this bucking fields?

Just another silly question... the size of the cell matters? I mean you can get the same effect on the 9 tube cell and at the resonant cavity setup with the same trafo setup? just varying the signal frequency and voltage level of both transformers?

Of course i´m assuming you are using two transformers to adjust the relation between the voltages in the secondary and chokes separately

I´m sure you drank the same water we did =)

regard that the saying in this drawing is:

5) Secondary coil winding (8 ) resonant charging chokes (9/12) of similar size and length sets up "Electron Bounce " zone by which the displaced electrons forms copper ions moving and taking on a positive electrical charge entering into resonant charging choke (9); Whereas, the clustering of electrons at resonant charging choke (12) forms negative voltage polarity of opposite electrical polarity intensity.
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 19:48:38 pm
I use a little different concept than Stan did, but still does the same thing. I put two coils on one set of cores and two coils on another set of cores.

Ok, Ron.
The 2 core sets are not hooked up to eachother?
Stacked on top of each other?

Cheers!

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2014, 19:54:20 pm
Thanks R.Walker,

I was trying to do that messing up with the coupling but is much harder...

Incredible

could you explain a little about what you believe is the effect of using this bucking fields?

Just another silly question... the size of the cell matters? I mean you can get the same effect on the 9 tube cell and at the resonant cavity setup with the same trafo setup? just varying the signal frequency and voltage level of both transformers?

Of course i´m assuming you are using two transformers to adjust the relation between the voltages in the secondary and chokes separately

I´m sure you drank the same water we did =)

regard that the saying in this drawing is:

5) Secondary coil winding (8 ) resonant charging chokes (9/12) of similar size and length sets up "Electron Bounce " zone by which the displaced electrons forms copper ions moving and taking on a positive electrical charge entering into resonant charging choke (9); Whereas, the clustering of electrons at resonant charging choke (12) forms negative voltage polarity of opposite electrical polarity intensity.

He, Fabio,

Electron bouncing now finally creates a picture in my brain........ yes the gray thing existing from 2 cells in my head....

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 29, 2014, 04:38:33 am
this phrases are still resonating in my mind...  ;)
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 10:58:02 am
Ron advised to focus on the primary.
After some research i ended by by flyback type transformers who function a bit different then normal transformers.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2890.msg26982/topicseen.html#msg26982
The term "Flyback Transformer" is a little misleading and its more useful to consider it as coupled inductors rather than a transformer because the action is quite different with a conventional transformer energy is going into the primary and out of the secondary at the same time it does not store energy. With a "Flyback" transformer energy is first stored then released.

So, the approuch for the vic system of Ron, must be using gaps between the cores..
Ron, i just orderd some of your recommanded cores and will use them like flyback,s..
See what comes out of it ☺☺
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 11:04:09 am
Cores with an air gap are needed to achieve the highest Q factor and temperature stability.....
I rest my case....
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 16:20:50 pm
I just got the other day some 220ohm 5w resistors
and some 29awg wire..

Steve do you remember how many turns we were guessing there was in the vics?

if i remember well maybe over 2000 turns for each coil and 600 for the primary isn´t it?

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 16:30:24 pm
Steve i have only one regard about your flyback idea, the flyback generates high voltage during the pulse off, while stan says that diode stays like a switch in a open position during pulse off or i´m confusing it?

except your talking about having the chokes to receive the pulse... correct?
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 19:14:18 pm
Switching diode (55) of Figure (3-22) not only acts as a blocking diode by preventing electrical "shorting" to secondary coil (52) during pulse off-time (69) of Figure (3-20) since diode (55) "only" conducts electrical energy in the direction of schematic arrow; but, also, and at the same time functions as a electronic switch which opens electrical circuit (60) during pulse offtime ... allowing magnetic fields of both inductor coils (56/57) to collapse ... forming pulse train (64a xxx 64n).

that could mean that at this point the cell is already positively charged and can't discharge into the secondary since it forms a open circuit...

collapse is a work for fast rate of decrease or just a synonym of decrease?
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 20:06:39 pm
I just got the other day some 220ohm 5w resistors
and some 29awg wire..

Steve do you remember how many turns we were guessing there was in the vics?

if i remember well maybe over 2000 turns for each coil and 600 for the primary isn´t it?

Please read my previous posts in this topic.
I followe Dons measurements. Primary ca 600 windings aka 10.5 ohms....
In the pictures you also find the driver of Stan for the vic. It has a diode over the primary.
No resistor.
However, maybe both might work.....



Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 20:08:32 pm
Steve i have only one regard about your flyback idea, the flyback generates high voltage during the pulse off, while stan says that diode stays like a switch in a open position during pulse off or i´m confusing it?

except your talking about having the chokes to receive the pulse... correct?

the secondairy coil discharges into the 3000 windings choke coils.....
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 20:21:41 pm
you  mean 3000 each choke?

The resistor in parallel with the diode would just help throwing away power so probably is in series with the diode isn´it?

this may serve to allow the fields to collapse based on the secondary coupling rather than the primary since the primary becomes a 80resistor.  during switch off, assuming what i´m saying is correct;;
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 21:02:13 pm
Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)

So the secondairy is ca 3000 turns and also the chokes have 3000 turns each...............
Lots of henrys....lots of resistance....

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 21:53:23 pm
Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)

So the secondairy is ca 3000 turns and also the chokes have 3000 turns each...............
Lots of henrys....lots of resistance....

i bought half kilogram of 29 wag wire.. it has 211ohms resistance total

so you saying the resistances sums than in series right so should be a half kilogram of 29awg wire in the vic at least for the chokes and secondary,,

i just finished constructing the oscillator to find out proprieties of the water,,,

it works but i had to do a modification of the circuit i imagined... here it goes with the components,,,
again the original thread discussing it is,,,

http://hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=506

I hope there is someone registered to the heretical builders to get the circuit from busi to compare with mine to see if its correct,,, the registration for that forum is over,,,

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 22:19:38 pm
when i connect the water its not able to do it.. oscillate
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 22:49:42 pm
Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms

according to Dynodon...


Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2014, 22:51:11 pm
Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)

So the secondairy is ca 3000 turns and also the chokes have 3000 turns each...............
Lots of henrys....lots of resistance....

i bought half kilogram of 29 wag wire.. it has 211ohms resistance total

so you saying the resistances sums than in series right so should be a half kilogram of 29awg wire in the vic at least for the chokes and secondary,,

i just finished constructing the oscillator to find out proprieties of the water,,,

it works but i had to do a modification of the circuit i imagined... here it goes with the components,,,
again the original thread discussing it is,,,

http://hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=506

I hope there is someone registered to the heretical builders to get the circuit from busi to compare with mine to see if its correct,,, the registration for that forum is over,,,

ill guess 0.5kg of wire it is....
Ron?
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2014, 00:41:28 am
The resistance for half kilogram of 29awg should be 235 ohms if we take the resistance and analyze the length of the wires we get than if we are really sure he was using 29wire only

0,268ohms/meter

so chokes has 300meters of wire

primary = 40 meters
secondary and chokes 300 meter each....

primary to secondary ratio would probably be 7,5

the waves take some time to travel along a wire,,, in this case the wire is enclosed by the core which lower the speed of the wave somehow...

so if we considere the speed of the light to be 300000000m/s than a wave would take 1/1000000 of a second to cross it and be absorbed or reflected. this i guess is full wave... 

Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2014, 01:28:39 am
I don´t think Rwalker used 0,5kg of copper at this little cores.
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2014, 10:19:46 am
Hi Sebos
Here is circuit of Busi you want.
andy
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2014, 10:20:21 am
Fabio

Please read this
To calculate the wavelength of an Antenna the formula for Wavelength is the Speed of Light ~299,792,458 metres per second divided by the frequency in Hertz. However, because electricity travels slower through some materials than others, there is a need to reduce the speed of light by the Velocity of Propagation also commonly known as the Velocity Factor for example a piece of copper wire has a Velocity Factor of 0.951.
Consequently the formula of a full wave antenna at 2.447Ghz (Channel 8) using copper wire is:
(299,792,458 x 0.951) / 2,4470,000,000 = 112mm
A Half Wave antenna would then be 56mm and a Quarter Wave antenna would be 28mm
Please note: This is only a guide to home made antenna building, when looking around the Internet you'll find many variations to this calculation due of a number of reasons ranging from rounding down/up or ways to match the impedance of the antenna with the feed line.
For example feed lines for Transmitters and Transceivers are 50 Ohms so too Wireless LAN equipment. However a half wave dipole is 72 Ohms and a quarter mono pole is 30 Ohms but for maximum efficiency both feed line and antenna must be the same impedance. Consequently there are many tricks employed to achieve a match and no doubt antenna design is a very complex area, but you'll be surprised of what can be done with a little experimentation, specially as the equipment used in Wireless LAN is very low-powered and therefor the risks of equipment damage and interference is minimal and so well worth having a go.
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2014, 10:36:04 am
WFC pics
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2014, 10:48:27 am
More pictures of the wfc
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2014, 14:03:06 pm
Hi Sebos
Here is circuit of Busi you want.
andy

Thanks a lot andy, i tried to construct but here i see busi used a 1 ohm 20w resistor and probably that way the oscillation indeed work...

However i think is not the best way to measure the capacitance since we are actually measuring the time constant of the water capacitance and resistances... which is not by itself a good value in my understanding.. other measurements must be taken into account like the resistance of the cell to different frequencies and with dc current...

He did it much better than i however since i used 3 ics to make it work.. i can bypass them though


Steve thats very nice pictures...

today i´m going to get the plastics to workout a cell like this for me...

thanks a lot

Fabio
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2014, 15:59:14 pm
here some notes of mr. Woodside
Title: Re: VIC pictures and Don's VIC notes..
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2014, 16:02:36 pm
More pictures of the wfc

...first class !

Thanks!
We can think what we want of Stanley, but he builded nice things..
Lets hope we figure out if it did work and that it was efficient....
;-)