Some ideas on determining how much gas was being generated by Stan Meyer's demonstration cells

**Calorimetric Calculation**

In the early experimental development of the vertical cluster array demonstration

cell there are several accounts of the temperature of the cell during its operation.

1.There is a comment by a member of the British delegation that visited Stan's lab

reported in a publication of the time

2. Stan's tells a story regarding the demonstration before the patent examiners, one of whom ran down

and felt the outside of the cell and yelled out, "It's a cold process!"

3. In the full version of the May 1989 Environmental Meeting, an investor John Gilvesey is asked to feel the outside

of the vertical demonstration cell asnd is asked how it feels Seems to add credence to an unusual Process occurring

**Unfortunately no temperature measurements using a thermometer have been reported in the lab records of the time.**

The dimensions of the demonstration cell are basically available or can be estimated

Sources: Measurements by Don Gabel, Drawings in IITER

The dimensions of the stainless steel tubing are known and the volume of the brackets

can be calculated.

The amount of water can be estimated in this fashion:

1. Determine the volume of water in the demonstration Cell

a. first determine the volume of water if there were no tubes added

b. subtract from this volume the volume of the water displaced by the stainless tubes

c estimate the volume of the brackets and ground plate

d by subtracting values b and c from the volume a, the amount of

water in the demonstration cell is obtained.

2. Assumptions about initial temperatures of water and air

a The temperature of the cold tap water is likely to be close to ground temperature

55 degrees Fahrenheit was chosen as tap water temperature.

b.The ambient temperature of the air is assumed to be70 degrees Fahrenheit.

3 Power input

The watt input is reportedly less than ten watts if not lower

QUESTION:

Given these parameters, is it likely that a significant temperature rise in temperature

would occur on 30 minutes?

QUESTION;

Is the absence of heating evidence for a novel form of electrolysis ?

Comments? Or solutions?

Formula for Volume of Cylinder

V=B (H)

V= Volume

H= Height of Cylinder

B= Area of Base

B= r2 ( pi)

So how many cubic inches of water might be in a typical Meyer Cell ?

V= r2(pi)(H)

and after plugging in a few figures

V= 6.25 (3.14)(24)

V =471 cubic inches

multiplying by 16.387 conversion factor

7718 grams of water

A calorie (small) will raise 1 gram of water 1 degree centigrade

and is defined as 4.1868 joule

So it I would take about 32314 joules to increase the water in a Meyer Cell by 1 degree Centigrade

If we assume 55 degree temperature for cold water and 70 for the ambient temp

the temperature differential is 15 degrees Fahrenheit or 8.32 degrees centigrade

Thus it would take about 268,852 joule sor about 900 watts to heat up that quantity

of water in five minutes to room temperature.

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How much gas was being produced ?

First approach.

From the videos, it is possible to determine the time to cloud up the

water above the tops of the stainless electrodes. If we think of the

clouded volume of water and compare it to a sponge with the holes in the

sponge being the hho gas and the matrix of the sponge being the water,then

the volume of hho gas being produced per unit time might be estimated.

One concept that might be applicable is the concept of packing fractions

Example how many ball bearings or marbles fit in at quart jar?

The shape of the hho bubbles are assumed to be spherical

The diameter of the bubbles are not known and their size

distribution also is unknown but might be estimated

In the case of air rifle BB's or marbles where the sizes are

assumed to be uniform, the volume of each of the spheres

can be calculated.and based on the geometry a packing

fraction can be applied to determine the number of BB's or marbles

that will fit in a given volume container.

If we make reasonable assumptions about the size of the hho bubbles

and calculate the volume of the clouded water, it might be possible

to estimate the amount of hho gas in the water above the tops

of the stainless steel tubing during operation

Furthermore, if we can get an approximate "time to cloud"

perhaps an estimate of the gas production per unit time is

possible.

Proposed solution using video evidence

1. Determine volume of water above the tops of the tubes

2.Determine volume gas that clouds the water for various

dimension of bubbles.

3. Attempt to determine the size of the bubbles from video

evidence

4. Based on observed size calculate the gas volume in

the water above the tops of the stainless steel tubing

5 The use " time to cloud" to estimate gas production

Let's take a look at the videos.

In the vertical cluster array cell we see a number of tubes

producing a large number of small bubbles.

Problem 1:

How many 1 mm diameter circles fit in a 10 cm square?

Assuming worst possible packing method, there would be

100 circles per side of the square or 10,000 circles.

Problem 2

Again with same assumptions, how many 2 mm circles

would fit in a 10 cm square?

100mm side/2 mm circle = 50 per side or 2500 circles

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now for volume of sphere

V=4/3 (pi) (r3

so for a 1 mm sphere Vol = .52 ml

and for a 2mm sphere Vol = 4.19 ml

10000 x .52 5210

2500 x 4.19

so with the concept of obscuring bubbles

if we know or estimate the volume of water above the top ends of the

vertical array tubes and know how long it takes to form a uniform mixture of bubbles can this be

a help in estimating the rate of gas production?

**Second approach: Pressure Change as indication of rate of gas production**

If we know the volume of air or gas above the top surface of the water in a vertical

cell and can see the rise in /pressure in a given amount of time, can this be used

to estimate gas production/ unit time? Boyle's /Charles laws

can these two measures be used to estimate bubble size?

if we know the surface are of the tubes can we determine the gas production

per square cm of tube surface

Another question for the mathematicians?

Determine the rate of production of HHO gas in Stan Meyer's Demo Cells.

1. Determine the volume of gas above the upper surface of the water in the demonstration cells

We have dimensions for the cell from Dynodon

We can estimate the vertical distance above the surface of the water with a little photogrammetry

WE can calculate the volume of the cone at the top of the cell

We can use the video of pressure change on the cells to measure increase of pressure over time

We can make some assumptions about temperature of the outside or ambient temperature

Application of Charles and Boyle's laws may provide insight into the amount of gas being

produced per second and also liters/minute

show work

compare time to obscure and calculate min and max gas needed

to give range of gas production

a.. window

b surface area of vertical tubes

c pakng fraction for column of water above top of tubes to surface of water

d video of how long it takes to obscure

show work

c