Author Topic: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required (WRONG, but interesting discussion)  (Read 13200 times)

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So, I have been pondering the VIC circuit vs the water capacitor today and how electrolysis happens.  Basically, electrolysis in water occurs when there is an electric potential of 1.48V across it.  Once a DC voltage over this is achieved across the water fuel cell, we must conclude that the condition is electrolysis.

Now, what if the RMS voltage across the WFC doesn't exceed 1.47V?  Well, we then have a charge building up on the cell.  We end up with the condition we are looking for where there is a build up of a charge that doesn't cross the water barrier.

Now, what if the less than RMS 1.48V hits a resonant point between the choke and the capacitor?

I'm wondering if we're going about this all wrong.  Meyer's indicated that the voltage across the WFC and the choke together could theoretically be infinite.  However, to prevent the electrolysis process, the RMS voltage across the cell itself must be kept below 1.48V shouldn't it?

Further considering the resistances of the chokes that Meyers was always referring to; think about resistors in a normal circuit.  Resistors of different values will have different voltages across them.  Higher resistance equals higher voltage.  If you have 3 resistors in series in a circuit being driven by 12V with the following values: 100K, 10K, 100K; the 100K resistors will each have 5.71V while the 10K will have 0.571V.  If we apply this to the WFC, the chokes would need to have a high enough resistance to balance each other but also keep the applied RMS voltage on the WFC below 1.48V.  Although we hear Meyer's refer to 11.8K in one scenario, this would have to be tailored to each configuration.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

TS
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 17:58:25 pm by timeshell »

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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 05:40:49 am »
My thoughts goes in the oposite direction meaning that electrolysis is a difusion limited process so there must be something beyond the elecrtolysis that meyer did and at faradays time was impossible to do.

I mean at this voltage or close to not even electrolysis happens... thoughts

Br

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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 15:24:56 pm »
My thoughts goes in the oposite direction meaning that electrolysis is a difusion limited process so there must be something beyond the elecrtolysis that meyer did and at faradays time was impossible to do.

I mean at this voltage or close to not even electrolysis happens... thoughts

Br

Certainly nothing happens with a straight DC current.  However, pulsing 1.47V RMS with lets say spikes of 20kV.  I'm trying simulations to see if this is reasonably achievable.

TS

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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 19:19:12 pm »
Well that would be another stuff...




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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 11:12:07 am »
My thoughts goes in the oposite direction meaning that electrolysis is a difusion limited process so there must be something beyond the elecrtolysis that meyer did and at faradays time was impossible to do.

I mean at this voltage or close to not even electrolysis happens... thoughts

Br

Certainly nothing happens with a straight DC current.  However, pulsing 1.47V RMS with lets say spikes of 20kV.  I'm trying simulations to see if this is reasonably achievable.

TS

Wow been over a year since this came up.   I was pondering these matters again yesterday and came to the same conclusion.  However, I wanted to respond again to the comment that  "I mean at this voltage or close to not even electrolysis happens".  My whole point is that we're not trying to achieve conventional electrolysis.  Until different rules are discovered and published we're essentially looking for the unwritten rules.   As such, a pulse of high voltage with a RMS of  less than 1.47V satisfies the high voltage requirement while at the same time theoretically preventing electrolysis from occurring and therefore allows the voltage to do the work rather than the current.

I don't recall if I managed to get a simulation to work to test last year.  But I'm hoping that someone else may take a few moments to ponder the viability of this who may be more familiar with electrical mechanics.

TS

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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 02:12:11 am »
Hy TS long time no see!If you dont mind I would like to say to leave this theory behind,because its waistfull in the long term.I'm saying that because someone(not giving names) have done the imposible.You must figure the math on Stan's vic from tech brief and patents,estate photos,data..every data you have..winding coils randomly will get you nowere for a very long time.Hope i don't upset the man who done it but i just wanted to help and give hope to people that worked very hard on this for years...
Please don't ask for details because i dont know them either...

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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 05:36:14 am »
I agree with you TS, we are not trying to achieve normal electrolysis..

I'm just going in different directions and trying to catch what i learn from it..

I'm sure everything is valuable testing if you take notes and change parameters to keep track of whats going on.

Today for example i discovered something really interesting... my vic is pulsing maybe over 40kv and i found that if i let a spark jump from whatever coil terminations to ground (on the yard) the amps being consumed from the circuit simply don't change now if i let a spark jump between two terminations of the coils the amps goes crazy consume a lot... The spark is even much bigger ... however..
 
But i noticed three things..

if the gas is being generated the spark is big

If theres only one connection to the cell (one wire only)  the spark to ground  is much smaller and thin.

If no connection to the cell the spark to ground is minimal...

the chokes and cell is pretty well isolated from ground... thru two isolating transformers and plexyglass.. .





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Re: Theory - Low RMS Voltage Across WFC Required
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 09:20:00 am »
Hy TS long time no see!If you dont mind I would like to say to leave this theory behind,because its waistfull in the long term.I'm saying that because someone(not giving names) have done the imposible.You must figure the math on Stan's vic from tech brief and patents,estate photos,data..every data you have..winding coils randomly will get you nowere for a very long time.Hope i don't upset the man who done it but i just wanted to help and give hope to people that worked very hard on this for years...
Please don't ask for details because i dont know them either...

what is this now, adys?
You come here and tell the world that somebody did exactly what Meyer did?

steve