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Projects by members => Projects by members => Newguy => Topic started by: Ks on November 15, 2018, 05:35:40 am

Title: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2018, 05:35:40 am
In this example the right electrode is at least twice as thick as the left.Both electrodes have negative 12v on them,the anode is hidden in the bottom of the container.
Im asking those who will watch it closely to the end because it takes a minute to accumulate some ions,to give me an opinion wich electrode seems to behave differently.
I understand its a really poor example being powered by a generic wall plug that put out 15 volts at half an amp with just enough baking soda to get a reaction lol yea it sucks but maybe someone else could give a more clear example.Id love to be able to see a full blown 22 amp 12 volt KOH
example with electrodes set up in the same fashion.

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 02:47:59 am
Also an example of simple participation or lack there of.
Alltho i was showing an example of Hermans magnetic storm from many years ago,no one has noticed ...i get that part,not everyone here is into Hermans research but the simple visual clearly shows the larger bubbles being attracted to the thinner electrode.
Why is it no one here cares enough to point out that 1 simple thing?
Over 1000 guests and not 1 dam person cares enough to observe and respond to such a simple question.
WWWWWTTTTTFFFFFFFF!
Happy Thanksgiving Dic*  heads !
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 06:48:52 am
i agree.
The participation of viewers is bad.
I ll guess many have given up...
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 06:50:56 am
it seems more mass has a bigger attraction?
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 22:48:54 pm
Thanks for the great video and nice experiment!

Any free floating molecule would actually get attracted to  the nearest electrode by electronic polarization the electron cloud will be polarized and so the neutral molecule free to walk will go to the nearest or the electrode with higher electric potential!

an ion would only go towards the direction of the electric field..

i just saw the video and i like it a lot. i already did some experiments where the bubbles behaved like that and also some where noticeably the movement where more accelerated probably due to the molecules being in an ionized state..   

You have the anode on the bottom of the tank and those are two cathodes?

 


Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 23:07:00 pm
Indeed the electrode thickness could be some factor in my point of view...

when i studied electrochemistry at the fuel cell course i took at the  institute of Nuclear energy research IPEN i learned that the metals have a reduction potential that is related to how the electrons displace from the equilibrium inside the metal attracted to the dielectric itself  and how electrons are bounded to the atoms of the metal

i believe the thicker the electrode the more electrons will be there to displace... i dont know exactly what would result...
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2018, 23:15:15 pm
If we go this way.. i could tell you.. perhaps using a heavy metal like platinum or gold could do some interesting effect...

i was studying some chemistry and how the metals develop a potential on water

basically two metals of the same size material and volume insert in water will have 0 v of potential difference between each other but they will have a electric potential in reference to a platinum electrode siting on the bath... if they are not two platinum electrodes too of course..

thereto i imagine a bigger electrode even being of the same material will displace the equilibrium of potential... you can measure that by inserting a platinum electrode on water.. and measuring both in reference to it... of course you can also measure the potential between the two.. if there is a potential there is a difference...

i read some patents about this regarding using plasma to generate electricity by simply using two electrodes of different size or shape, area...




Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 03:35:32 am
Thanks for the great video and nice experiment!

Any free floating molecule would actually get attracted to  the nearest electrode by electronic polarization the electron cloud will be polarized and so the neutral molecule free to walk will go to the nearest or the electrode with higher electric potential!

an ion would only go towards the direction of the electric field..

i just saw the video and i like it a lot. i already did some experiments where the bubbles behaved like that and also some where noticeably the movement where more accelerated probably due to the molecules being in an ionized state..   

You have the anode on the bottom of the tank and those are two cathodes?

Yes they are both cathodes that you can see.They both are on the same ground connection.
They both are the same diameter,the only difference is the one on the left is thinner than the one on the right.
The anode is centered underneath the cathodes.Why would the larger bubbles  be more attracted to the thinner electrode?
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 08:47:03 am
is it not simply because the thicker the material the less electrical resistance. So the majority of the hydrogen ions will go preferable to the thicker negative electrode?
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 09:10:34 am
when i think more about this, there might even be a potential difference between the two kathodes....
There must be, otherwise they would not act like this
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 15:07:02 pm
when i think more about this, there might even be a potential difference between the two kathodes....
There must be, otherwise they would not act like this

i imagine that there is indeed...!

even if its very small would give this effect

if you want to see something even more strange isolate your system and apply high voltage to it as well in reference to ground or to the outside of your water tank...

there you will have ions
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 15:13:13 pm
when i think more about this, there might even be a potential difference between the two kathodes....
There must be, otherwise they would not act like this

i imagine that there is indeed...!

even if its very small would give this effect

if you want to see something even more strange isolate your system and apply high voltage to it as well in reference to ground or to the outside of your water tank...

there you will have ions

Drawing please....
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 15:17:08 pm
i imagine the thinner electrode is maybe more negative.. but you could confirm that using a multimeter
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 15:38:09 pm
here is a drawing of the situation i think is happening

thinking a little more about it the hydrogen itself may be charging the electrodes...

when you bubble hydrogen on a metal it get negatively charged..

this is pretty much the concept of a fuel cell.

 


Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 17:29:38 pm
If i remember, it might be the case that Kevin had an electromagnet around the bar that connects the two rond electrodes...
Then you have to deal with a magnetic field that attracks the hydrogen gas....
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 26, 2018, 23:58:56 pm
here is an idea

i forgot to add a capacitor at the ac line...

actually only a capacitor is needed on the ac line those L coils should not be there
 
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 00:18:25 am
i was wandering if the concentric tubes were correlated to the water geometry;;; 


i would propose an experiment you could try to charge first the big electrode than connect the thinner and see were the bubbles go after the connection... if i´m right somehow the smaller electrode is charging up before the big for some reason.

Title: Thomson effect
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 00:58:42 am
2. Thomson effect. In a wire in which the temperature varies from point to point (as for example in one whose ends are maintained at different temperatures), the free electron density varies from point to point with the temperature (the free electron density is highest at points where the temperature is lowest). As a consequence of this, differences of potential may be observed along the wire corresponding to the varying free electron density. Each infinitesimal element of a wire of nonuniform temperature is thus a seat of emf, a discovery made by Sir William Thomson (Lord Kelvin). When a current is maintained in a wire of nonuniform temperature, heat is liberated or absorbed at all points of the wire. This heat, called Thomson heat, is proportional to the quantity of electricity passing the section of wire and to the temperature difference between the ends of the section.

 

Def. Thomson emf, σAdt. If an infinitesimal length of wire A has a temperature difference dt (i.e. dt is temperature difference between the beginning and end of the section), the number of joules of heat absorbed or liberated in this length of wire per coulomb of electricity transferred is called the Thomson emf, σAdt

 
The total Thomson emf in a wire whose ends are at temperatures t1 and t2 is

The coefficient σA is sometimes called the “specific heat of electricity”.

http://www.solitaryroad.com/c1045.html

https://www.chemguide.co.uk/physical/redoxeqia/introduction.html

2. Polarization. As a voltaic cell operates, the positive electrode tends to become coated with an accumulation of tiny bubbles of hydrogen gas. Thus an electrode of hydrogen has been effectively substituted for the carbon electrode we started with. The result is a gradual drop in voltage as the cell operates. The phenomenon is called polarization. To overcome this defect, manufacturers add a depolarizer such as potassium dichromate to the cell. The depolarizer unites chemically with the hydrogen and removes it from the carbon.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 09:53:37 am
i was wandering if the concentric tubes were correlated to the water geometry;;; 


i would propose an experiment you could try to charge first the big electrode than connect the thinner and see were the bubbles go after the connection... if i´m right somehow the smaller electrode is charging up before the big for some reason.

how can that be...? The water molecules are so tiny
Normally, hydrogen bonds with hydrogen to H2 which is also tiny
O bonds with O and becomes O2 ...... still tiny
The only effect i ever seen that might have some influence is pulse width DC modulation.
The higher the frequency, the smaller the collected bubbles of gas....

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 11:08:24 am
bigger electrode means:
Gravitational Potential is bigger?
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 14:11:53 pm
i was thinking mor about the oxygen being 8 times heavier than the hydrogen side so the gravity would pull it down more strongly i guess...

thinking of that i actually was thinking of using that ac to create a short circuit perhaps forcing the hydrogen potential to zero.. this could let us proceed with electrolysis at 100mv or lower

in my opinion this is the main problem with electrolysis... when hydrogen forms on the electrode it develops a potential that like a capacitor will require more energy per electron to make thru and complete the conversion...

if we find a way to take the hydrogen out the process should improve a lot, if could zero up the potential we can generate 1000 times more hydrogen than we expend energy for example if the potential is reduced to 1,24 mV

thats because if we apply 1,24 v it will consume 1,24 watts per amp you use disconsidering resistance losses etc if it was 1,24mV you apply 1,24 miliwatts per amp used...  if we apply 1,24v and this situation happen the only limiting factor will be resistance.. for example if it had 1 ohm resistance it would consume 1watt or so for the same amp.. but if we increase the voltage the power increase squarely...

if the resistance is kept small like 0.1 ohms 

1,24 volts would give 12 amps so it would be like 144 watts

no efficient at all

for it to be tremendous efficient it will require amps being generated at low voltages like the faraday disk or something like

meyer created some especial generators we maybe should get a look at that..

i´m not sure but perhaps a step down transformer with active rectification could solve the trick if the field is allowed to collapse and we get low enough resistance on the system..

ideally we should calculate the resistance per cm2 of the electrode and design from that..

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 14:52:41 pm
I think we overlook what Newguy was trying here.
Look at his electrode setup.....
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 15:31:36 pm
interesting! were those coils being pulsed?

i´m dont really believe that magnetic fields could do something... but lets see with or without comparisons so far its already done...
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2018, 16:57:29 pm
Herman spoke about a frequency of 7.5hz in his system.
Thats a nice frequency for pulsing electromagnets, from my perspective
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 28, 2018, 03:12:55 am
Would anyone have a guess why i would use this ?
That paticular piece was made for 13 inch diameter electrodes not the 5 inch diameter electrodes attatched....was an experiment.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 28, 2018, 11:55:04 am
In my opinion one of the master problems is to generate such a small voltage

the only way i see with things i have here is to use a dc motor spin very slow to be able to generate very low voltage

i have one here i made from a tesla patent that coincidentally has two inputs or outputs.. .so the voltage output will depend only at the spin speed...

one problem with this is the reactance of the coils because the max current you are able to take out of a motor depends on its impedance.... this motor has a low impedance

however is the only way i could generate from 1 mv to 1v and still would need another motor to drive it at this speed...

i´m thinking that when we get both negative plates in resonance they will alternately be more negative than the other by action of the resonance so it could perhaps force the hydrogen to leave or impart energy on it!

if we have a potential difference between the negative electrodes and we connect each other a current will flow until there is zero volts between them, this current will come from the hydrogen in excess at one plate to the other..

i think the electrode geometry may have a impact on it...

also we can build an bipolar electrodes to help concentrate the oposite electric fields between the electrodes.. when we have two electrodes with same polarity the fields inside zero up unless we take the field from outside and make them oppose each other too

for that what is needed is to build two electrode arrange with two electrodes each separated by a dielectric and encapsulated leaving only one face of the electrodes in contact with water... than connect both encapsulated electrodes to each other.. . it would make the charges oppose each other outside and inside the cell since the field has no were to go... the best dielectric for it would be barium titanate or high dielectric. but i guess a thin plastic like policarbonate and resin could do the trick

still the fields will kind of bend from the sides of the cell ...

one thing that i´m considering as possible way to generate the low voltage required at high amps is some kind of thomson generator... using the heat of the engine as a feedback of energy...




 

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 00:24:00 am
Would anyone have a guess why i would use this ?
That paticular piece was made for 13 inch diameter electrodes not the 5 inch diameter electrodes attatched....was an experiment.

I do know why. I listend a 1000 times to what Herman said about his cell.
To change H into D some things need to be achieved. Herman called it Cold Fusion.
The proces is:
Standard electrolysis + a magnetic field that pushes the ions from the anode and a magnetic field that pushes from the kathode.
He also added soft x rays from a high voltage spark and the ionizing effect of high voltage going over corona wire.
In his case a 70,000v.
Thats why he made his electrodes from soft iron.

You tried to make an electro magnet for creating that needed force field.
The question is how you came to the idea of using 2 anodes and 1 kathode or 1 anode and two kathodes.....


cheers!

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 15:58:13 pm
I never seen this one before, but it is a very coooool magnetic field simulatar....


https://www.falstad.com/vector3dm/
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 19:29:45 pm
I´m not sure but i guess that if we want to generate deuterium we just need to use heavy water...

I dont think we could have deuterium of hydrogen uless we make it react with some neutron praying for it to capture the neutron.. not sure if would happen.. however would require a neutron source such as californium... or something like...

seems easier to get some heavy water

it cost 15.600,00 Reais for 4 kg here in Brazil

2.500, for 500g

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/151882?lang=pt&region=BR

i´m not sure if is too hard to make it


Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 20:15:44 pm
Well, i am not going to pay 1000 euros for 1 liter of heavy water if i can make it with Hermans cell.....
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2018, 06:27:16 am
interesting! were those coils being pulsed?

i´m dont really believe that magnetic fields could do something... but lets see with or without comparisons so far its already done...
Not to deter from your post  but you mite explain something to me my mind atm isnt seeing....
Why do electrodes become bipolar?
To touch on your post tho...
Harveth and Herman both used KOH to get ionic current to flow like electrons in a wire which concurrently lowered dielectric constant which lowered the mag field requirement for proton precession. ( 100 -800 gauss? ) Harveth posted that requirement if someone cares to look it up we can edit the post.
The magnetic field requirement for proton precession is much higher (1826 gauss) in ordinary water.
I never liked dealing with electrolytes .
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2018, 12:04:07 pm
I also dont like dealing with electrolytes..

when i talk about a bipolar electrode what i mean is an electrode that has two poles... but only one pole is accessible to water... it works like this:

when we charge a capacitor we take electrons from one side and put on the other so the lack of electrons attract the extra electron from the other side so the field is contained inside the capacitor... this happens because the fields are going in opposite directions on the outside so they cancel out

when you have two parallel plates and you apply a positive charge to both the plates instead, in the middle of them the field will be zero... this is because the fields oppose each other so they are forced to be only on the outside of the (capacitor).

so my idea of bipolar electrode is a manner to make a outside path for the fields oppose each other and get at least partially in the space between the plates... this will increase the repelling force between the electrodes since the field is forced to work from inside...  i made a drawing for you

If  i remember well the precession of atoms will occur at whatever magnetic field however the higher is the field higher will be the frequency of the precession...

NMR uses high fields to get fast response and more precision on readings,...

the energy involved in this resonance is very low ...  lower than the hydrogen bond between molecules..

i´m not sure but if i remember well the frequency of resonance of water at earth magnetic field would be around 1khz ... if you increase to tesla it will be in the megahertz range

its indeed interesting to think why would it resonate faster ... i read a book about it long ago.. when the field is present the molecules tend to align with the field for them to precess its required an input of energy.. normally some radio frequency signal to shake the molecules... than a trasnverse coil capture the signal of the dancing molecules..

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2018, 13:33:01 pm
That is theory.
But the electrodes are part of a closed circuit.......So, ill gues that changes things?

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2018, 20:51:23 pm
That is theory.
But the electrodes are part of a closed circuit.......So, ill gues that changes things?

yes i think it would increase the force between the charged plates because its just like it would be to close a magnetic circuit...

the closed circuit you see is to send positive in both directions so they cancel out and so i think should remain inside... or at least more inside and laterals ... i could be
totally wrong.. and the field just get outside but this is my very best impression of it...

in the case if they were cathodes they would have negative charges instead of positive but the idea would be the same.. .

i tried some in the way of trying to reduce the potential of the molecule but i never got this situation where one electrode can interact with each other face to face like on this configuration of the video... i would use dual dc one for each plate and add a choke at each plate than i would try applying some high voltage to the hydrogen and see what happen...
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 00:54:18 am
of course it must be held at high voltage to be effective if its grounded it will just keep all the electric field inside like would do a regular capacitor
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 03:29:32 am
Would anyone have a guess why i would use this ?
That paticular piece was made for 13 inch diameter electrodes not the 5 inch diameter electrodes attatched....was an experiment.

I do know why. I listend a 1000 times to what Herman said about his cell.
To change H into D some things need to be achieved. Herman called it Cold Fusion.
The proces is:
Standard electrolysis + a magnetic field that pushes the ions from the anode and a magnetic field that pushes from the kathode.
He also added soft x rays from a high voltage spark and the ionizing effect of high voltage going over corona wire.
In his case a 70,000v.
Thats why he made his electrodes from soft iron.

You tried to make an electro magnet for creating that needed force field.
The question is how you came to the idea of using 2 anodes and 1 kathode or 1 anode and two kathodes.....


cheers!

Hey Steve,
You posted a while back a reference  to Horvath his statement of the required magnetic field using 20% KOH,do you remember what is was ?It was of course in his patent.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 04:39:12 am
That is theory.
But the electrodes are part of a closed circuit.......So, ill gues that changes things?
Its interesting you mention that you mention that...these wer old expieriments and i dont have the picture of the coils core split with the clear rubber tube attatching them together via....yep you guessed it ...with a spark gap.
Can a magnetic field increase the current of a spark gap? .....i think so.
Can an electromagnetic field be used to vary the current of  a spark gap? .....i think so.
Is the current simpler to feedback to drive the system?... i think so.
So its a matter of magnetic field requirements matching a required current flow driving a compound resonate system to do work.Work being the movement of created charged ions,pairing of electrons in a resonate condition to form a highly reactive gas.....ohhhh boy.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 10:21:22 am
Would anyone have a guess why i would use this ?
That paticular piece was made for 13 inch diameter electrodes not the 5 inch diameter electrodes attatched....was an experiment.

I do know why. I listend a 1000 times to what Herman said about his cell.
To change H into D some things need to be achieved. Herman called it Cold Fusion.
The proces is:
Standard electrolysis + a magnetic field that pushes the ions from the anode and a magnetic field that pushes from the kathode.
He also added soft x rays from a high voltage spark and the ionizing effect of high voltage going over corona wire.
In his case a 70,000v.
Thats why he made his electrodes from soft iron.

You tried to make an electro magnet for creating that needed force field.
The question is how you came to the idea of using 2 anodes and 1 kathode or 1 anode and two kathodes.....


cheers!

Hey Steve,
You posted a while back a reference  to Horvath his statement of the required magnetic field using 20% KOH,do you remember what is was ?It was of course in his patent.

I do remember that i found it in his patents somewhere, but i must say that i dont remember the numbers anymore.
Probably my age........
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 10:23:20 am
That is theory.
But the electrodes are part of a closed circuit.......So, ill gues that changes things?
Its interesting you mention that you mention that...these wer old expieriments and i dont have the picture of the coils core split with the clear rubber tube attatching them together via....yep you guessed it ...with a spark gap.
Can a magnetic field increase the current of a spark gap? .....i think so.
Can an electromagnetic field be used to vary the current of  a spark gap? .....i think so.
Is the current simpler to feedback to drive the system?... i think so.
So its a matter of magnetic field requirements matching a required current flow driving a compound resonate system to do work.Work being the movement of created charged ions,pairing of electrons in a resonate condition to form a highly reactive gas.....ohhhh boy.


Its a big puzzle and now the way to find a path to put it all well together  ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 15:10:25 pm
Man i think i found one of the problems...

when we get the cathode charged it will get hydrogen over it thereto it will develop a potential of 1,24 negative because it has the electrons of the hydrogen available still until it gets out of the cathode as a bubble..

i think the big question is how to make the hydrogen exit the cathode or perhaps how to extract those electrons to make the hydrogen come out as a ionized bubble...


i was watching some khan academy videos about the nearst equation and about concentration cells

i was thinking if there inst a way to use another way to lower this potential of the hydrogen at the electrode...

so i was considering some way around to short this energy out but it would have the problem to provide recombination if the short would have oxygen on the other side,,,

than i started to think what if it is shorted with other electrode other than the cathodes and anode? maybe some one else in a neutral position but i also started to think it would not work

now ´perhaps applying voltage could make just what meyer says in the new zealand... if we apply a positive charge just enough to zeroup the potential of the electrode relative to the anode it would theoretically consume no power if we do this electrostatically..

perhaps the high voltage is just required to keep the potential of the electrodes in such a manner that it allow the current to flow like if it was a short circuit condition generating tons of gas

the idea should consist in make the hydrogen goes out ionized and to bring the potential up to a high voltage that would make it appear like zero volts to the voltage source

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 15:19:05 pm
i just had another thought what if we use the hydrogen to lower  the potential of the anode?

making the hydrogen pass thru the anode would make it become charged to -1,24 volts too so the voltage diference because of chemical charge would at least be reduced..

i dont think the hydrogen would not even be consumed it must charge the anode negatively

in meyer cell the gas is forced to pass thru the inner electrode !! 

not sure if its enough to get a decent neutrality..

im inclined to think that there were other things in meyers cells that we didnt see... i say meyers because is the only one we saw something
 
i´m curious about this electrode potential and how to manipulate it, i believe there is some good road in this way
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 16:57:15 pm
For example you have iron and a dilute solution of HCl the iron will decompose naturally...

is it possible to charge the iron with high voltage in relation to the solution such as to interrupt the decomposition of iron? or in relation to the outside of the bath?

Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 17:11:46 pm
i was thinking about one thing too

sacrificial ..  is an metal you add to another metal such as to protect...

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_de_sacrif%C3%ADcio
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2018, 22:20:03 pm
 

Water electrolysis electrode potentials with pH

Electrolysis electrode potentials with pH Generally, the water next to the electrodes c will change pH due to the ions produced or consumed. If the electrode compartments are separated by a suitable porous membrane then the concentration of H3O+ in the anolyte and OH- in the catholyte (and hence the increase in the respective conductivities) are both expected to increase more than if there is free mixing between the electrodes, when most of these ions will neutralize each other. Small but expected differences in the solutions’ pHs next to the anode (anolyte) and cathode (catholyte) cause only a slight change to the overall potential difference required (1.229 V). Increasing the acid content next to the anode due to the H3O+ produced will increase its electrode potential (for example: pH 4 E = +0.992 V) and increasing the alkaline content next to the cathode due to the OH- produced will make its electrode potential more negative (for example: pH 10 E = -0.592 V). If the anode reaction is forced to run at pH 14 and the cathode reaction is run at pH 0.0, then the electrode potentials are +0.401 V and 0 V respectively (see above right). d
     (a) Anode         pH 0        2 H2O -> O2 + 4H+ + 4e-            E° =   +1.229 V

     (b) Anode        pH 14       4 OH- -> O2 +H2O + 4e-             E° =   +0.401 V

     (c) Cathode     pH 0         4 H+ + 4e- -> 2H2                       E° =   0.0 V

     (d) Cathode     pH 14     4 H2O + 4e- -> 2H2 +4OH-           E° =   -0.828 V

 

This does not mean that because the electrolysis can be achieved with a (minimum) voltage of +0.403 V (see equations c and b, above) [2515], it breaks the thermodynamic requirement of 1.229 V as there is a further input of energy required in keeping the electrode compartments at the required pHs and solute concentration.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 02, 2018, 02:41:31 am
Im not sure what you are tryn to accomplish with all that Seb but I like the 11ev myself...you have to remember the common denominator with all this...make gas.
We have a different understanding with the magnetic fields and precession,obviously a diffrent goal as well lol.
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 02, 2018, 20:06:19 pm
i just had another thought what if we use the hydrogen to lower  the potential of the anode?

making the hydrogen pass thru the anode would make it become charged to -1,24 volts too so the voltage diference because of chemical charge would at least be reduced..

i dont think the hydrogen would not even be consumed it must charge the anode negatively

in meyer cell the gas is forced to pass thru the inner electrode !! 

not sure if its enough to get a decent neutrality..

im inclined to think that there were other things in meyers cells that we didnt see... i say meyers because is the only one we saw something
 
i´m curious about this electrode potential and how to manipulate it, i believe there is some good road in this way


Fabio, i love your creative thoughts  :)

Ill guess some of the hydrogen will settle in the metal.
I did some theoratical reaearch on that and found that Herman P Anderson used nickel plating as it has some kind of micro caves that collect hydrogen...
Together with the magnetic pulses ans so on, it should be part of cold fusion proces
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 09:58:18 am
I´m thinking about doing the following experiment

with some cells in series like this for apply 12v directly

every cell in serie will multiply the amperage in terms of hydrogen production so for 10 cells in series using 40 amps would be like 400 amps of hydrogen produced..

Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode ...

I´m not sure whats going to happen on the middle electrode.. the problem is that the solutions must not be in contact with each other,..

i think about using multiple isolated cells but of course will do only a couple to see whats going on...

next test will be to get the hydrogen bubbles get on the anode! .. the idea is that it would further reduce the potential... perhaps an air pump could be used to recirculate the gas on the anode perhaps on the opposite side where the reaction is going

i´m starting to think that the electron extraction grid was actually the anode in meyer cell so the hydrogen would have to pass thru it!

I imagine a 3 plate cell pretty much like the one in the video but with the anode on the up side for the bubbles of hydrogen reach it "! or passing thru a ss screen connected to the anode.

I think meyer said platinum could not be used `` it would breakdown under the conditions  / New Zealand `` perhaps because it would ignite the hydrogen with the oxygen at the anode... 

i dont know much about the cold fusing process but i guess the basic idea would be to get the hydrogen cheap and mess around with it with radiation and voltage to stimulate the energy to get out like all the inventors said.. to get a decent magnetic field on the cell maybe would be better to wind a coil around the cell itself or use permanent magnets

talking about magnetic fields how its going with the Horvath cell Steve?

i was thinking why the hell Meyer used a resistor in that patent and he talks about reaching different potential levels etc ..i wonder what was that about 

i think we should do the following experiment too urgently

have a 10Kohm high power resistor like 40w and get an isolated low voltage source too

connect the dc low voltage across the cell and the the 10kohm resistor between the cathode and ground

than pulse the anode with the vic to get 600 volts at it and see what happen with the current on the dc accordingly with the pulsing

i guess this was what he was trying to protect
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 10:29:37 am
thats still waiting for me to continue with.
The current project are a lot of solarpanels with two inverters and 20kw of salvaged lithium ion batteries.
I bought another set of broken solar panels for almost nothing l, but i must repair the glas before i can use them....
I also learned how to use raspberry pi computers and how to add scripts on them to finally see some data on a website with the power output and input of the whole system.
I planned to had it finished month ago.......
Still bussy with it now.

But....in january i will go back to my cells and run a lot of tests that i am preperring right now.

cheers!
Title: Re: Electrode comparison
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 16:30:47 pm
I´m thinking about doing the following experiment

with some cells in series like this for apply 12v directly

every cell in serie will multiply the amperage in terms of hydrogen production so for 10 cells in series using 40 amps would be like 400 amps of hydrogen produced..

Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode ...

I´m not sure whats going to happen on the middle electrode.. the problem is that the solutions must not be in contact with each other,..

i think about using multiple isolated cells but of course will do only a couple to see whats going on...

next test will be to get the hydrogen bubbles get on the anode! .. the idea is that it would further reduce the potential... perhaps an air pump could be used to recirculate the gas on the anode perhaps on the opposite side where the reaction is going

i´m starting to think that the electron extraction grid was actually the anode in meyer cell so the hydrogen would have to pass thru it!

I imagine a 3 plate cell pretty much like the one in the video but with the anode on the up side for the bubbles of hydrogen reach it "! or passing thru a ss screen connected to the anode.

I think meyer said platinum could not be used `` it would breakdown under the conditions  / New Zealand `` perhaps because it would ignite the hydrogen with the oxygen at the anode... 

i dont know much about the cold fusing process but i guess the basic idea would be to get the hydrogen cheap and mess around with it with radiation and voltage to stimulate the energy to get out like all the inventors said.. to get a decent magnetic field on the cell maybe would be better to wind a coil around the cell itself or use permanent magnets

talking about magnetic fields how its going with the Horvath cell Steve?

i was thinking why the hell Meyer used a resistor in that patent and he talks about reaching different potential levels etc ..i wonder what was that about 

i think we should do the following experiment too urgently

have a 10Kohm high power resistor like 40w and get an isolated low voltage source too

connect the dc low voltage across the cell and the the 10kohm resistor between the cathode and ground

than pulse the anode with the vic to get 600 volts at it and see what happen with the current on the dc accordingly with the pulsing

i guess this was what he was trying to protect

(https://pubs.rsc.org/en/Image/Get?imageInfo.ImageType=GA&imageInfo.ImageIdentifier.ManuscriptID=C5CC09642A)

1,23v              0v          +400mv           -829mv
Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode
A            1,23v       B             1,23v          C