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Projects by members => Projects by members => Timeshell => Topic started by: timeshell on September 20, 2012, 16:35:48 pm

Title: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps (CONFIRMED)
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 16:35:48 pm
This morning I had an inspiration.  Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but
it only seems to make sense.

Let's look back to the basic properties of a basic transformer.  Power
in equals power out.  Let's take a 1:10 step up transformer as an
example.  12V 1A in equals 120V 0.1A out.  If it's a 1:100 transformer,
12V 1A in equals 1200V 0.01A out.  No matter what way you look at it,
the power must be equal.

We all know that the secondary, the choke coil and the amp inhibiting
coil are actually all secondaries to as they share a common core.

Assuming:
1.  Two coils with the exact same number of turns but are configured to
oppose each other will cancel each others fields and thereby each others
current
2.  The higher the number of turns, the lower the current on the secondary
3.  The lower the number of turns, the higher the current on the secondary
4.  The VIC has 3 secondaries

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as ? with primary coil

I hope you all see where I am going with this by now.  In theory, by
step 3 the cumulative current is now at 0.11A.  This means that we need
to configure the amp restricting coil to step up from the primary at the
point where it will return 0.11A to restrict all current flow.

Since power in equals power out, the step up to get 0.11A from 12V and
1A would be 12W/0.11A which is 109.1V which is a ratio of 1:9.1

So, the three steps to complete restrict current becomes:

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as 1:9.1 with
primary coil; amp restricting coil should be 109.1V, 0.11A

The net current is now 0A due to cancellation, but the net voltage is
1200+120-109.1 which is 1210.9V!!!

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 19:04:56 pm
This morning I had an inspiration.  Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but
it only seems to make sense.

Let's look back to the basic properties of a basic transformer.  Power
in equals power out.  Let's take a 1:10 step up transformer as an
example.  12V 1A in equals 120V 0.1A out.  If it's a 1:100 transformer,
12V 1A in equals 1200V 0.01A out.  No matter what way you look at it,
the power must be equal.

We all know that the secondary, the choke coil and the amp inhibiting
coil are actually all secondaries to as they share a common core.

Assuming:
1.  Two coils with the exact same number of turns but are configured to
oppose each other will cancel each others fields and thereby each others
current
2.  The higher the number of turns, the lower the current on the secondary
3.  The lower the number of turns, the higher the current on the secondary
4.  The VIC has 3 secondaries

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as ? with primary coil

I hope you all see where I am going with this by now.  In theory, by
step 3 the cumulative current is now at 0.11A.  This means that we need
to configure the amp restricting coil to step up from the primary at the
point where it will return 0.11A to restrict all current flow.

Since power in equals power out, the step up to get 0.11A from 12V and
1A would be 12W/0.11A which is 109.1V which is a ratio of 1:9.1

So, the three steps to complete restrict current becomes:

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as 1:9.1 with
primary coil; amp restricting coil should be 109.1V, 0.11A

The net current is now 0A due to cancellation, but the net voltage is
1200+120-109.1 which is 1210.9V!!!

TS
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 19:13:30 pm
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 19:22:13 pm
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS
Yes, seen it again  8) L2 is a tunable choke seen in the patents. But he's changing L1?

Increase the top choke for more voltage. Now the L2 choke has lower inductance as L1 choke. How can they be equal but opposite then?

Br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 20:50:54 pm
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS
Yes, seen it again  8) L2 is a tunable choke seen in the patents. But he's changing L1?

Increase the top choke for more voltage. Now the L2 choke has lower inductance as L1 choke. How can they be equal but opposite then?

Br,
Webmug

He wasn't changing L1 because it was tunable!  He was changing it to demonstrate how the VIC is scalable!  The tunable L2 is to fine tune the current cancellation against the "secondary" plus the charging choke.

Additionally, where does it say that they have to be equal?  The very fact that one is defined as variable suggests that they are not equal!

TS

EDIT:
Fine tuning isn't to fine tune current cancellation.  It is to fine tune resonance and that side of the cell.  See discussion at:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2946.0.html
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 20:56:19 pm
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it normally would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 20:59:58 pm
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
Yes, it does, because the primary field is aiding to the other coils at the same time on resonance!

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 21:26:04 pm
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
Yes, it does, because the primary field is aiding to the other coils at the same time on resonance!

br,
Webmug

While I do agree there is influence from mutual inductance, I also believe the effect is a compound effect above that of the primary coils charge.  My current experiments appear to support this.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 21:47:23 pm
Thats the idea but you must think in terms of impedance... an voltage...

The impedance of the secondary that will be reflected to the primary...

so thats why i based my theory on volts not current...

I mean you don't input 12v 1 amp

12v 1 amp are feed by the source if required by the reflected impedance....

Regards
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2012, 22:22:33 pm
Thats the idea but you must think in terms of impedance... an voltage...

The impedance of the secondary that will be reflected to the primary...

so thats why i based my theory on volts not current...

I mean you don't input 12v 1 amp

12v 1 amp are feed by the source if required by the reflected impedance....

Regards

Obviously, it was simply an example.  But determining ratios by such does apply.  Whether it is 1A, 5A or 100A, the ratios should be the same.  Current always matters when transforming power simply due to the equation P=VA and again power in equals power out for all transformers (assuming no losses).

The only difference here is that the primary's power is being divided into three output coils.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 21, 2012, 05:44:21 am
Yes you are right but not conceptually correct...

What i mean is that the three "output coils" and load set the load at the input so is not that correct saying that you input and this input is transformed... The power into the load is equal to or less than power coming out of the source...  pointless but just to clear out
A transformer transforms voltage, current flows according to the impedance... a bigger coil bigger voltage bigger impedance less current...
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 21, 2012, 12:02:56 pm
Yes you are right but not conceptually correct...

What i mean is that the three "output coils" and load set the load at the input so is not that correct saying that you input and this input is transformed... The power into the load is equal to or less than power coming out of the source...  pointless but just to clear out
A transformer transforms voltage, current flows according to the impedance... a bigger coil bigger voltage bigger impedance less current...

The impedance may control the current to some degree, yes, but the transformer transforms power.  In electrical physics power (P) = voltage (V) * amperage (A).  So both voltage and amperage levels are transformed in the process.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 15:42:31 pm
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 16:35:35 pm
Hello ts i just watched your video... it seems in the other video it was locking better isn't ?

I got great news...
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 16:57:18 pm
Nobody comments on water type. Water varries and we believe stan used well water which is very clean but in his case also very hard, 32 grains hard.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 17:51:28 pm
My best guess is that the purer is the water the better it would be to apply high voltage fields at higher efficiency...
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 19:51:52 pm
Hello ts i just watched your video... it seems in the other video it was locking better isn't ?

I got great news...

Meyers did indicate it can achieve resonance at different frequencies.  You may notice it was at different frequency in my latest video than my previous one.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 19:53:16 pm
My best guess is that the purer is the water the better it would be to apply high voltage fields at higher efficiency...

Agreed.  However current limiting is still essential.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2012, 19:55:45 pm
Nobody comments on water type. Water varries and we believe stan used well water which is very clean but in his case also very hard, 32 grains hard.

I don't believe water type is important at all.  Just that should contain no electrolyte.  This would correspond with Meyers claim that any kind of water can be used.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2012, 06:33:11 am
My best guess is that the purer is the water the better it would be to apply high voltage fields at higher efficiency...

I believe this to be half true. The purer the water the higher voltage we can achieve but this also means we are performing less work with our voltage.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2012, 14:26:05 pm
My best guess is that the purer is the water the better it would be to apply high voltage fields at higher efficiency...

I believe this to be half true. The purer the water the higher voltage we can achieve but this also means we are performing less work with our voltage.

I do not agree at all with your comment.

See this video.  Which do you suppose is doing more "work"?  The single cell at 9V or the 244?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=244%209v%20batteries&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEUQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8hwLHdBTQ7s&ei=q-7eUKiyMvSA2AWowoCIBw&usg=AFQjCNEPjXMT-e0sxUT51wn7UXxGKX684g&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.b2I


TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2012, 15:40:24 pm
Wow haha that's cool.

What I'm saying is pure water has a resistance of 18Mohms per cm. Water with ionic compounds has a resistance dependent on the amount but it usually takes less than 2 volts just like in standard electrolysis. Although we are no trying to push current, the resistance shows us how many ions we can potential move with an applied voltage. Pure water always has ions in it, but the voltage necessary to ionize pure h2O is pretty crazy; At least in any significant way. Stans equipment certainly isn't capable of producing such voltages.
 
Stan always talks about natural water, natural water already has plenty of ionic compounds broken down in it.  :)
An example for this whole thing would be applying 12 volts to a cell with tap water and also to a cell with deionized water. We would see a lot more hydtogen from the tap water. Now if we restrict the amp flow with vic's, in both cases production either stops or is limited. But, a huge amount of ions have been polarized in the tap water cell in comparison to the deionized water cell.

Sorry for the long reply, sometimes I feel like I'm not very good at explaining stuff so I tried to make my thoughts clear.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2012, 16:30:34 pm
I wonder what would happen if we put this 2000V super cell on a WFC. 

;)

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 06:32:09 am
There are a couple things I would like to add to this thread.
1)  As I'm sure most of you know that if you over charge the coils, they will pull more current. A coil operates the opposite way a of a capacitor, where as while charging a capacitor the current starts off high and then current drops as a capacitor reaches 5 Time Constants. An inductor starts off with low current and the current rises and peaks as you reach 5 Time Constants. So you don't want to over charge the coils or you will get high currents. You want to stop charging the coils before it reaches 5TC.

2)  As I stated in a previous thread, I have seen a strange phenomenon that I can only explain as "Parallel Resonance" occurring within a series circuit. This was done using the 8XA Circuit and high inductance bifilar coils. The coils were not equal, the L1 coil had a higher inductance than the L2 coil. The L1 coil was around 3.4H and the L2 coil was around 2.8H. When I connected the 8XA Circuit to the coil and increased the variac to around 50VDC, I would only get a voltage input reading up to 12VDC max! The voltage across the cell would read over 1,000V. The water would hold this charge as long as the input power was being supplied. The current would max out at 55mA while in resonance! My only explanation for this is that a parallel resonance was taking place between the two unequal coils! In Parallel Resonance, the coils will have a very high impedance and restrict the current to a certain level. I even demonstrated this to my electronics professor and he didn't understand what was taking place. Has anyone else tested and seen this take place???
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 09:56:23 am
yes...

The cell is actually a capacitor .. use this to calculate the frequency:  ω(0)=sqrt(1/(LC)-1/(RC)^2) you don't need that high inductance for your coils... better thing to do is calculate the resonant frequency of the circuit to a resonant frequency of water..  can you show what circuit did you use? About the water you must use distilled water for this to work consistently.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 15:25:29 pm
yes...

The cell is actually a capacitor .. use this to calculate the frequency:  ω(0)=sqrt(1/(LC)-1/(RC)^2) you don't need that high inductance for your coils... better thing to do is calculate the resonant frequency of the circuit to a resonant frequency of water..  can you show what circuit did you use? About the water you must use distilled water for this to work consistently.

From my personal experience to date, the resonant frequency of water itself is not relavent.  Additionally, according to Stan, the quality of the water is not relevant.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 17:07:09 pm
yes...

The cell is actually a capacitor .. use this to calculate the frequency:  ω(0)=sqrt(1/(LC)-1/(RC)^2) you don't need that high inductance for your coils... better thing to do is calculate the resonant frequency of the circuit to a resonant frequency of water..  can you show what circuit did you use? About the water you must use distilled water for this to work consistently.

From my personal experience to date, the resonant frequency of water itself is not relavent.  Additionally, according to Stan, the quality of the water is not relevant.

TS

no the resonant frequency of water is not relevent for paraller resonance.. meyer combined many things together from times to times , what is important for parallel resonance is water resistance..that's why I said to use distilled water.. because it has a fixed water resistance.  :-*
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:16:40 pm
In my testing when I achieve Parallel Resonance, the water type doesn't matter because it seems the cell itself has no effect on the resonance. I know that may sound strange to some, but I can disconnect the cell and place a resistor in its place and still get the Parallel Resonance. The resonance seems to be taking place between the two coils!
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:24:24 pm
What circuit do you use, I'm no engineer but you should calculate the capacitance of the water cell and the resistance of the water to make the whole system resonate in sync.. this way you could get over 50kV spikes on your oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:34:22 pm
I'm using the 8XA Circuit setup with my single tube.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:37:42 pm
Tony, I also get the same effect. Nothing really changes when I change the water or the size of the cell. What was the capacitance of the coils and the resonant frequency you found?
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:47:51 pm
I found resonance around 2.5kHz using 2.8H and 3.4H coils wired out of phase.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 18:52:50 pm
In my testing when I achieve Parallel Resonance, the water type doesn't matter because it seems the cell itself has no effect on the resonance. I know that may sound strange to some, but I can disconnect the cell and place a resistor in its place and still get the Parallel Resonance. The resonance seems to be taking place between the two coils!

Agreed.  That is my observation also.

TS
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 19:47:58 pm
Show the whole circuit please... you should get higher spikes.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 20:05:13 pm
8XA Circuit
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 20:21:36 pm
are you using a battery or a power supply?
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:03:58 pm
The circuit is exactly as you see it in that layout.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:25:12 pm
You should use power from a steady source such as a battery or large capacitor.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:26:25 pm
huh???
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:28:26 pm
yes the harmonics are vastly different between these two ..  ::) you can use a 555 timer and get power from a battery , I'm not an EE btw.. so don't trust me that much.. if you have parts lying around try it for yourself.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:33:53 pm
I don't have any issues with the power supply and harmonics I'm using. The power supply is well filtered against any harmonic interference.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:36:01 pm
here.happy new year.....  http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:43:53 pm
I have never used anything on my plates or tubes as its not needed.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:44:52 pm
I have never used anything on my plates or tubes as its not needed.

what do you mean?

p.s. trying to sell this tech isnt the best incentive.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:50:42 pm
I'm just saying you don't need to coat your plates or tubes with anything.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 21:55:32 pm
yes I'm aware of that..   ???  why did you mention about the coating?
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 22:00:23 pm
Because you asked if I put anything on my plates and after I responded, you edited your comment. LOL
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 22:03:40 pm
ok.. although I didn't ask you about the plates, only told you about circuit.. ::)  you can tell me about how you hear water.. that's nice for a DIY water heater .   :D
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 22:08:23 pm
oh ok...there really isn't much difference between that circuit and the 9XA Circuit that I sell on my website.
http://www.globalkast.com/products.htm (http://www.globalkast.com/products.htm)
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2012, 22:56:33 pm
meyer words are:

"When a charge is applied to a capacitor, the electrical charge of the capacitor equals the applied voltage charge; in a water capacitor, the dielectric property of water resists the flow of amps in the circuit, and the water molecule itself, because it has polarity fields formied by the relationshop of hydrogen and oxygen in the covalent bond, and an intrinsic dieletric property, becomes part of the electrical circuit, analogous to a "microcapacitor" within the capacitor defined by the plates"
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2013, 02:52:35 am
meyer words are:

"When a charge is applied to a capacitor, the electrical charge of the capacitor equals the applied voltage charge; in a water capacitor, the dielectric property of water resists the flow of amps in the circuit, and the water molecule itself, because it has polarity fields formied by the relationshop of hydrogen and oxygen in the covalent bond, and an intrinsic dieletric property, becomes part of the electrical circuit, analogous to a "microcapacitor" within the capacitor defined by the plates"

And?
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2013, 22:33:51 pm
Guys one of the diferences between the 8xa and the latest  5 coil vic, i noticed and you saw it too,is that in the 8xa the pulsing was done after the VIC(variac)and on the 5coil vic the pulsing was done on the primary side.Now i think why in the demo cell there is not a voltage drop ,but when you hook up the cell and in the 5coil vic you end up with 2v with cell atached.I think in the 8xa setup the variac has the power and suplying the amps needed to mentain voltage up and overcome the resistance of water and the 5coil vic was pulsed with 3amps on the primary and like timeshell said on the begining of the thread 1:30 =0.1 amps at the cell ...so no amps to sustain that voltage,Stan said in one of his videos that  even NASA guys were not knowing how to generate HV and restr amps in a dead short contition.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2013, 03:32:34 am
I'm sure most of you know that the 8XA Circuit it just a simplified version of the 5 VIC Transformer. The 8XA's Variac acts as the secondary of the 5 VIC Transformer. I have attached a image that shows how the 8XA represents the 5 VIC Transformer.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2013, 05:44:05 am
I'm sure most of you know that the 8XA Circuit it just a simplified version of the 5 VIC Transformer. The 8XA's Variac acts as the secondary of the 5 VIC Transformer. I have attached a image that shows how the 8XA represents the 5 VIC Transformer.

Since the variac is the secondary it is kind of like a variable coil right? When you adjust the voltage you adjust the inductance.

Is it possible that the parallel resonance you have described  is the self resonance of the coils?
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2013, 12:29:47 pm
Hi Tony I would like to replicate this HV accross the cell experiment. Can you give more details on the chokes used:
Are they bifilar wound? and in that case you just unwound some turns from one end to obtain different values?
what core were you using?
what gauge of wire?

HM
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2013, 12:58:26 pm
I'm sure most of you know that the 8XA Circuit it just a simplified version of the 5 VIC Transformer. The 8XA's Variac acts as the secondary of the 5 VIC Transformer. I have attached a image that shows how the 8XA represents the 5 VIC Transformer.
Exactly Tony,and the is one more diference(i know you know it)that the variac AC is fully rectified(120Hz)fixed freq.Tony do you think the 120hz sine wave is contributing to the process?in your video i saw a sort of 120hz sine wave chooped by the pulser higher freq,and in the scope shots from  Stan's estate the same.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2013, 13:24:25 pm
''The L1 coil was around 3.4H and the L2 coil was around 2.8H.''
Are you talking about the MOT's secoundary split in 2 sections?If yes in other thread you said you measure the bobin's half and cut it to create equal coils.If you used a diferent value on the negative choke how do you calculated the inductance for it?or  when you cut the  bobin in two you made one half smaller by eye?
You also said you conected them out of phase and in the small drawing you posted it shows in phase,when conected out of phase dont they need to have the output leeads one''start of winding'' and the other''end of winding''?just asking...



 ''When I connected the 8XA Circuit to the coil and increased the variac to around 50VDC, I would only get a voltage input reading up to 12VDC max!''
Input reading before the chokes ?or after?
Thanks verry much Tony!Cheers!
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2013, 01:37:08 am
Yea I used a MOT and just cut the wire in the center (eyed it). By eying it I made them unequal, but this actually worked out I guess. Then I connected them out of phase, not like the Stan's 8XA image. I took the voltage measurements before the "blocking diode" and across the cell.
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2013, 07:11:53 am
If your planning on replicating tony's mot, take some time to experiment using the primary and secondarys without any modifications. I had some good results that way : )
Title: Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2013, 12:19:55 pm
Thanks guys,i made some experiments with an inverted normal transformer,then hook up two coils out of phase and at a freq aprox 1Khz (from the 8xa) in get a voltage increase starting from 125v-250->400->600->0->125->300->500->800->1500->MAX my meeter and producing little gas.If i keep my meeter close to the cell without conecting it is shows some ambigous voltage readings.  I then replaced the normal inverted transformer with a flyback and could not get it to step up the voltage(mainly because i canot find HV gnd and used the frame as a gnd).When I conected the inverted transformer again the same as before i could get a little more production but no step up,I dont know why did not work the secound time...I have a pc scope so i canot put the leads over the wfc at resonance and i wound 1turn of wire over the flyback core of the two chokes so i can get a feedback,and the freq was 2.3Khz see att.Cheers!