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Projects by members => Projects by members => Tony Woodside => Topic started by: TonyWoodside on November 20, 2011, 06:33:23 am

Title: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 06:33:23 am
Recently I've been thinking about the L1 and L2 choke different values. I have come to a 2nd theory on why Stan made the L1 choke a larger value than the L2 choke. Ideally the chokes would be of equal value, but realistically this is not so. The reason i think the choke were made of different values is due to the voltage drop across the blocking diode. Typically you will have a voltage drop across a diode of 0.25v - 1.5v depending on the type. The MUR1550 has a voltage drop of around 1.5v. So this voltage drop would cause a lower voltage output of the L1 choke at resonance and therefore the L1 chokes voltage wouldn't be the same amplitude as the L2 voltage. So Stan had to make the L1 choke bigger in value to compensate for this voltage difference and make them equal in amplitude.
Someone suggest to balance the circuit by placing a 2nd diode between the secondary and the L2 choke, but this wouldn't work because the diode on the negative side wouldn't allow the positive voltage cycle from the negative side to pass to the cell. I have tested this and it screws up the sine wave signal at resonance.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 07:25:05 am
Tony,

According to my calculations, stan might have used different kinds of systems.

Nothing makes more sense to me than use frequencies up to and beyond 200khz...

The high frequency allow the Quality Factor of water capacitor to be greater than one allowing resonace, so first requirement for resonance to exist match.

This is achieved by lowering the inductance. The higher the frequency the lower is the capacitance reactance. The lower the reactance, more precisely you get a Zseries close to zero at resonance (perfect cancellation). As Z approach zero line Current and resonant voltage approach infinity as circuit components allow it to happen.

The coil is tunable due to the need of actually tune the circuit to a fixed frequency source. The PLL simply reduces this critical point, and allow for perfect balance of potential, so allow the tuned choke to have further functions.   

An alternator is great Vt source of low z... high short cut current, which is what maters in the end. 

The dealership shows the chokes has 18 turns like... The rest is *  misleading info.

We need to find the triple phase boundary of the water fuel cell.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 08:19:11 am
Considering the VIC circuit as a series circuit the sums of the voltage drops across each component will be the total voltage, so I tend to wonder if a 1.5V difference would change it that much. Then there's all of Stan's talk about the chokes being bifilar wound of equal length....

I would not rule out the possibility, what your saying does make sense in the fact that it's important to have an equal voltage between turns in a HV transformer to help prevent dielectric breakdown of the coils. But at the same time if you take a 1.5V difference across the 3,000 turn choke you get a very small voltage difference between turns of 500uV...

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 15:24:16 pm
Actually at resonance voltage across components are = I*XL or I*-XC and its sums equal zero cause one is opposite to the other

If you apply 1volt into a Z of 1mili ohm you get 1000 amps  1000watts

Now if your XL is 10ohms you get 10 kvolts across circuit components... _XL = 2*PI*f*L    10MW

Only the sum of the imaginary sides cancel out... remaining on the real series resistance the applied Vt...

If you input energy in parallel you can only get the high amp recirculating after many many cycles...

How to let voltage take over in a dead short circuit condition? Resonance

When you study the mechanism of ionic conduction you see that the atoms goes back and forth exchanging (gaining and loosing) electrons at the electrodes at a certain speed for a given applied dc.

so the greater the frequency the greater the amps get restricted anyway. However at a certain applied voltage frequency, the atoms (hydrogen) we need to focus on the lighter cause its speed is much higher, will not be able to exchange charges with the electrode, cause it changed polarity at the exact moment the atoms arrived so reversing the atoms speed in the opposite direction.

So we need a fixed voltage and frequency mapping of a given WFC (current as function of frequency), and around that frequency found as a strange current (low) condition, a variable voltage at a fixed frequency...and plot the current again as function now of voltage. This graphs will let us understand more about the process.

So the right modulation of voltage with respect to the right modulation in the frequency would give aways a high Quality factor in the WFC capacitor.


 
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 16:11:55 pm
Tony and everyone else,

When I took the VIC coil readings, I only measured one coil pack.To get those measured reading of mine,
I had to take apart the coils.They were all soldered together.Now I didn't even want to do one let alone several of them.
So what I'm trying to tell everyone here is to not make too much of just one set of coil readings to mean that
they were all the same for every VIC coil set. As you can see by all of the photo's I took,all of these coils were
hand wrapped.I seen Stans crude coil winder there and it was just a small motor turning the coils and the wire was
feed by hand.

So knowing this,my best guess is that they were meant to be the same size.Because they were hand wound,
and LCR meters weren't availible back then, it was just close enough.So I make mine with the same number
 of turns like Stan probably did.When winding coils this way,you can end up with differnt readings from one coil to another.

That's why I'm now making my own CNC coil winder.I should be ready to do a test run today.It took me most of the day
yesterday to get the Gcoil code set up on my system to count properly.
Don
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 20:17:51 pm
Yea Don I can see what you are saying there. The coils values can vary quite a bit. From testing that I've done, it looks like the main resonance takes place between the L1 coil and the cell. The L2 coil will act as a resistance to current while having virtually no voltage drop across it like a resistor would and while at the same time increasing the voltage applied to it and making the voltage 180 degrees out of phase from the L1 coil. Do you agree with me on this?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 20:22:25 pm
Another thing that brings me to this conclusion is that in Stan's papers he shows the formula for calculating the resonant frequency and only includes the L1 coil and the cell. Also at resonance XL=XC which will give you a resistance close to zero and that would allow current to be very high, but the L2 chokes XL along with the magnetic coupling would provide an impedance to restrict the high current flow.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 21:25:16 pm
If you have something increasing the Z value is pointless to call it resonant charging choke. What stan say is that he restrict the amps and allow voltage to take over in a dead short condition.

A series circuit is a dead short condition.

If you short circuit a battery you have internal resistance that limits the current to a certain value.

Similarly stan reminds you secondary resistive wire... The source has an impedance that must be taken into account.

to have an ideal voltage source, many batteries in parallel would fit. Alternator... anything with high short current ability.

The bifilar choke is needed to act as a switch, my best guess... This way he uses the magnetic energy derived from the resonant line current into forming the other pulse by letting the field to collapse just after the total discharge of the wfc when current is a maximun. As diodes don't allow the current to change direction the other choke will catch the field and recharge the capacitor with the same polarity. Basically the bifilar choke allow a mechanism where you maintain resonance on a capacitor inductor system but you only charge the capacitor in one direction... You need a switch for that... two of them... stan hided all... and there are other way to connect things other than stan showed consequently.

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 21:32:42 pm
Tony I agree, that's pretty much exactly what I have found as well, resonance between L1 and cell, and L2 restrict amp flow and allows you to produce high voltage across the cell
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 22:22:58 pm
This is my explanation of how Stan's VIC works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 23:11:20 pm
water dielectric would fail with ac with half the voltage it would need if dc.

your theory lack of circuit explanation. What you call 180° i don't believe really is. is simply the opposite polarity.

I think you could achieve that but only with a pair of wfc... don't get limited to the way stan did, try other ways you will learn more about how things work.

For example get a full wave driver and apply 20 volts across the cell and observe the current as you vary the frequency... There is no way to calculate the resonant action frequency only experimentally you can find it.

I believe meyer constructed the variable spacing cell for testing this... 

There is other possibility the inter-winding resonance, i mean between each turn, something keeps blowing my mind, an experiment i made where i burned a transformer into light cause i reached this resonance... it was around 200khz... however i'm not sure. It could be that this kind of light was corona discharge all over the transformer...

If you can have many turns in resonance in series you would have a giant high voltage in the end line... I read about it sometimes, and i think that this destructed my transformer... maybe increasing the linearity of the windings you can get all resonating at the same frequency and increasing the capacitance by maybe putting the coils under oil...   


18 turns to 36 turns thick

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2011, 23:59:05 pm
Tony,I basically agree with most of what you stated.As for resonance taking place between choke 1 and the cell is where I see it differently.Yes resonance will take place there,but most of the resonance is in choke coil 1 itself.The capacitance in the choke is far greater than the cell.When you tune into resonance,disconnect the cell and see what happens.You will see a voltage drop and the frequency will need to be reajusted to get it back.This happens because you removed the small capacitance of the cell,but it will still resonate without the cell.

Choke 2 is needed to give you the the opposite voltage potential of choke 1.And I do believe you are onto something with the 180 degree phase shift for choke 2.I have never thought about putting the negative choke out of phase.You lit a light bulb in my head over that one.I will be testing that out when I get my new coils wound.
Don
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 01:10:41 am
Yea if you look at Stan's VIC transformer diagrams he shows the chokes being connected so that the voltages will be 180 degrees out of phase from each other.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/StanMeyer_5VIC_fig3-23.jpg)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 01:26:54 am
No it don't, if you count that each coil has 200v and the botton of the secondary is the earth, you have 200 + 200 so va =+400 and the vb also + 200 so between va and vb is 200
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 01:32:16 am
the bottom of the secondary isn't connected to a ground at all, it is totally isolated and floating. You can test this Va+Vb with a basic +12v and -12v power supply. Just take and connect a voltage meter to the two outputs, positive lead to +ve and negative lead to -ve and you will get 24v.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 01:35:30 am
Stan even shows this in his 9XG diagram and it plainly says, "Floating Ground".
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/S.Meyer%20-%209XG.jpg)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 03:14:27 am
No it don't, if you count that each coil has 200v and the botton of the secondary is the earth, you have 200 + 200 so va =+400 and the vb also + 200 so between va and vb is 200

Do you not understand what Potential Difference means? You can calculate it in two ways, |Va| + |Vb| = Vab or Va - Vb = Vab.
Example:
Va = +200v
Vb = -200v
|+200| + |-200| = 400v
(+200v) - (-200v) = 400v

Its the same way that how house AC power system work to give you 240vac from 2 phase 120vac power systems. The phases are 180 degrees out of phase and when you combine them you will get the 240vac output for appliances such as electric stoves.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 07:27:14 am
Tonny,

Pay attention the polarity of the tx5 choke is reversed.

The first choke sends a positive in relation to ground added by the secondary also positive. 1+1

The other choke also sends a positive pulse in relation to ground so 2-1 =1

Is like if the outer tube is 400v above floating ground

the inner is 200v above floating ground

and there is 200 between them...

Theres no 180° nothing... simply voltage canceling each other out... I go 400 meters in one direction and go back 200 meters, the total distance i walk is 600 but i'm only 200 meters away from where i start...

Potential exists relative to a point.

This is what all stan drawing with coil orientation are saying , not me!
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 09:21:03 am
can L2 be 90 degrees out of phase?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 10:23:37 am
Don I agree more with what you said:

Quote
As for resonance taking place between choke 1 and the cell is where I see it differently.Yes resonance will take place there,but most of the resonance is in choke coil 1 itself.The capacitance in the choke is far greater than the cell.When you tune into resonance,disconnect the cell and see what happens.You will see a voltage drop and the frequency will need to be reajusted to get it back.This happens because you removed the small capacitance of the cell,but it will still resonate without the cell.

I have been thinking the same way about the VIC resonance. The choke resonance will form a parallel tank circuit with a very high impedance limiting current. I don't think the water capacitor is part of the resonant circuit but it causes the ANTIRESONANCE phenemenon to occur which will cause the resonant frequency to change. (Ref http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/5.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/5.html) ). I think this is why Stan reduced the size of the water capacitor to the injectors size, to limit antiresonance as much as possible.

I just don't see how the resonance can be taking place between the L1 choke and the water capacitor because there is a diode in series. Now coil resonance is a Parallel LC tank circuit. The current flows back and forth from the inductor and capacitor, even with a diode in series the parallel tank circuit (Self resonant coil) will resonate and produce AC oscillations.

Considering the coil is not really a parallel circuit I believe those AC oscillations will reach the water capacitor.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 12:46:31 pm
Don,

Sorry if this is off-topic, but how many turns do you have in your vic pickup (feedback) coil?
People give different numbers of turns for all coils.
Here's what I gathered so far:

Primary Coil (Blue): 600-650 Turns 29AWG Magnet Wire
Secondary Coil (Green slim bobbin): 3000-3500 Turns 29AWG Magnet Wire
Pickup Coil (Yellow): 200 Turns 29AWG Magnet Wire
Choke 1 (Red): 3000-3500 Turns 29AWG Magnet Wire
Choke 2 (Red): 3000-3500 Turns 29AWG Magnet Wire

Thanks


Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 21:45:54 pm
Primary Coil (Yellow) = 400 to 500 turns
Feedback Coil (Green) = 400 to 500 turns (same as Primary)
Secondary Coil (Blue) = 3000 turns
L1 Coil (Red) = 3000 turns
L2 Coil (Red) = 3000 turns

The Primary to Secondary ratio is approx. 1:7
Based on the resistance measurements of each coil you will need the follow amount of 29 awg (81.84 ohms/1kFT) wire:
Primary = 10.5 ohms = 128.3 feet of wire
Feedback = 11.5 ohms = 140.5 feet of wire
Secondary = 72.4 ohms = 884.7 feet or wire
L1 = 76.7 ohms = 937.2 feet of wire
L2 = 70.1 ohms = 856.6 feet of wire
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2011, 06:30:55 am
Hi lads, a very interesting thread, thanks for the useful information.
I am wondering, for those who dont have the meyer style bobbin, is thereany other coil arrangement coil construction / winding method that may achieve the intended effects like the meyers vic coil design?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2011, 07:37:49 am
Try using a center-tap transformer and a sine wave generator. Ground the center-tap and then connect a diode to one end and then to the cell and connect the other end to the cell also. This should give you two sine waves that are 180* out of phase. You can also add chokes in series to help restrict current and give higher voltages. I think a sine wave input would be more efficient than pulsed DC. I also think Stan was forced to use pulsed DC by design. He had to do this in order to get his patents cuz AC electrolysis was already patented by Puharich. Just a thought though ;)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2011, 08:00:00 am
Hey Tony with the center tap transformer substitute is there any way to get one out put only 90 degrees out of phase or is that possible at all?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2011, 18:45:56 pm
wfchobby, Thanks for  bringing up that question. This is what im working on as time permits. Question is for Tony. In figure 8-11 of the rotery vic. The stator windings (secondary) show a c/t coming off of each phase with 2 diodes one blocking towards the winding , then amp restricting coil going to 0 volts. the other diode on the end says to center tap. WHERE DOES THAT CONNECT TO. Im assuming the 0 volts goes to the cell. BUT ALSO WHERE DOES THAT CONNECT TO. SEEMS LIKE THAT HAS TO CONNECT TO A NEUTRAL TUBE, TO GET AMPS RECIRCULATING IN THE WATER. What is the purpose of the diode on the end of wire where it says c/t. Seems like that diode should be turned around. I dont know, guess it depends on where it is connected to. Iv been workin with this but my understanding is a little vague on this part. I have the rest of it figured out for the most part. hope you can SHED some light on this part of the Rotary vic. ANY ONE ELSE READIN THIS IF YOU CAN BE OF HELP PLEASE POST SO OTHERS CAN KNOW HOW THIS PART OF THE CIRCUIT WORKS TOO. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. HIWATER.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 04:40:37 am
Tonny, you are making a wrong idea of the transformer circuit, the polarities you described are wrong according to all meyers figures.

This is the corrected figure in attachment of what is happening in the vic

when you have the flux going into one direction in the core, all coils that ends at the same side of the core are of the same polarity. verify it your self, if you connect the transformer with the coils with all adding fields you will get much higher voltage but is not the vic. IS clearly pointed in all pictures of stan. Except in the matrix impedance bla...

You should read what i wrote more carefully...

Br
sebs
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 08:51:32 am
I have tested this with my VIC Transformer and at a certain frequency the voltage will got 180* out of phase and the voltage will peak! Here is a simulation of 180* out of phase voltage, please tell me where I am wrong at with this.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/V1+V2.png)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 10:02:54 am
Yes tony is right.

+HV
virtual ground
-HV

to

-HV
virtual ground
+HV

But still the voltage potential is alternating at the electrodes.
this is not what stan describes in his waveforms

HM

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 14:13:38 pm
you are simply adding two voltage sources in series, as you can note on its spec. there is 0° phase between them not 180. 180° would cancel each other out you would get 0 volts. You see?

Your oscilloscope is connected wrong, cause the under source is connected to the oscilloscope in the contrary polarity...   so it seems the sources are 180° but they are not.

You see that clearly in the oscope, you get chA+16ch  B-16  summing=0 , you are only getting this waveform cause you are seeing two isolated tracks... if you add them up on the scope, this you will show you 0 volts. for this exact configuration.

This phase angle is relative to a source...

BR
Sebs
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 15:15:23 pm
If you take a center tap transformer, and use the center tap as your ground referance,you will see +12 volts on one side and -12 volts on the other side.Now when you take a ready from the +12 volts leg to the -12 volt leg you get 24 volts.This is what I think Tony is trying to point out,and this is how I see it myself.
Don
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2011, 15:21:29 pm
If you take a center tap transformer, and use the center tap as your ground referance,you will see +12 volts on one side and -12 volts on the other side.Now when you take a ready from the +12 volts leg to the -12 volt leg you get 24 volts.This is what I think Tony is trying to point out,and this is how I see it myself.
Don


Thats correct don.
Yes The multimeter is showing correct the volts...
but what i'm pointing is that he is confusing the phases...  If the oscilloscope was correctly connected it also should show the added tensions when adding up the two signals... instead of zero

However in meyers vic he has the secondary and tx4 coil adding and tx5 coil subtracting... like what i'm pointing...
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2011, 00:47:03 am
It operates just like the power supply in a computer....you have a +12v rail and -12v rail and you can combine them to give you +24v. Here's another simulation with the two voltages 180* out phase and you will get the same results.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/V1+V2_2.png)

In the earlier diagram where you changed the polarities of the output of the VIC Transformer isn't correct. This is Stan's diagram from Birth of New Technology...he has the output labeled B+ and B-
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/StanMeyer_fig3-23.gif)

This is the way the polarity should be, unlike the way you have it labeled in your diagram. You can't have two positive output back to back like you show.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/StanMeyer_fig3-23_2.gif)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2011, 02:54:12 am
Tony,

Yes now thats 180 degrees! But now if you add them up in the oscilloscope they completely null out.

However i still need to argue with you about the polarity of the coil 62, actually is the contrary of what you drawn. Yes i changed for another b+ in the drawing but actually was to mean it is B+- it is - because the diode feed that end with negative voltage but the coil send a positive field over it...   

I explain to you why:

When you have the flux going in one direction and you have the two wires terminating at the same side of the core, the vector product is the same for the two wires, so both are positive terminations. does not mather the direction of the coil arrangement, only  the orientation of the windings...

You understand my point????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????   

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2011, 03:14:11 am
here's another simulation of the VIC Transformer that matches my real-time testing. Each voltage tested with ground reference show the voltage to be 180* out of phase and when you measure the voltage from B+ to B- you get the potential difference of the two voltages, meaning voltage doubling of the two single output voltages.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/5vic_voltage.png)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2011, 14:29:05 pm
Please forgive me, if i insist, i just want help you to not make the same mistakes i did in the past...
 
Did you understood the coil polarity? Did you understood why it must be like this? Anyone else understood, (learned) how to determine the polarity of a coil in a given magnetic varying field?

Think of the most repeated argument meyer used, about electronic circuit...


I guess now its the time to public reverse my opinion about meyer process.. i always stated: its resonance thus it needs amps... but now that i think that i understood it, i got to report, its only high voltage but almost Zero amps. However I'm not saying there isn't high current on the process of making this. Nor that is low amps cause the resonance is about a high inductance and small capacitance... Is an amp restriction mechanism..

The high voltage is not the essence, the essence is actually the same of (conservation of momentum) two people pushing them selfs while sitting on ice, if both have the same masses, both achieve the same velocity for a given impulse. however if one has a bigger mass and the other a tiny one, the individual, with lower mass, will get higher velocity than the one with the larger mass for a given impulse. In this case, mass is or is what causes amp restriction, velocity is potential. So if you create a big mass reference, you can jump on space from it and achieve a higher velocity than it. However the important is that the center of mass will always remain at the same point!!! Major property!  R(position vector) * M (sum of all masses) = ∑(mi*ri) (Sum of all individual masses multiplied by its individual position... so R=(∑(mi*ri))/M

Is the same for electricfields...  They walk in the reverse direction of the electrons...

The bifilar chokes can't have 40kv between the wires, i guess this is obvious for all... This was what lead me to discover that stan was talking about opposing fields in the chokes and was for real...

The vic matrix circuit is the closer stan arrived from telling us the true... however he don't show the polarities in it.

The vic impedance network is there to confuse, as the amps are getting "restricted" only by the shorted turns segment of the choke... actually having this short circuited section, both orientations would do it teoretically ...maybe thats why he never used the polarities of the chokes on the drawings..(of course first of all protection) because first one should understand the reason of the polarities and than, that theres even other ways to restrict the amps...       



 


Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2011, 08:49:06 am
Do you not understand mathematics and basic physics?
If you have +12v and -12v then the potential difference is 24.
(-12v) <------------0------------>(+12) The distance from the -12 to the +12 is 24 places.
In physics, if the molecule is represented as the 0 and you have a force of -12 on one side and another force of +12 on the other side, what do you think will happen? It will pull the molecule apart. Just like if you were to take and connect chains to each one of your arms and then connect the chains to a device that will pull at the same rate and pressure outwards from the center. It would eventually pull you apart once the force and pressure is great enough. Basic Physics and Mathematics!
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2011, 10:15:43 am
I'm a bachelor physics student. And i'm referring to the chokes, only. (Vo-Vn) performs work... 
12-12=0 in terms of circuit impedance gives 0volts... as is clear...  0 volts divided by whatever resistance = 0 power consume. Of course if you send |+12v|    +    |-12v| you will get 24v of potential difference... I'm not talking about this part. This alone won't give any difference from electrolysis...  yet this part is still needed for the completion of the system.

See: Vic matrix circuit memo426 and than re read again the memo 420
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2011, 14:53:00 pm
Quote
A young man, hired by a supermarket, reported for his first day of work. The manager greeted him with a warm handshake and a smile, gave him a broom and said, "your first job will be to sweep out the store."

"But I'm a college graduate," the young man replied indignantly.

"Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that," said the manager. "Here, give me the broom, I'll show you how."

Education is a process, not a status...
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2011, 15:36:46 pm
I had spoken to dozens of doctors in many fields, this year, no one could minimally understand what i was doing. People who study tend to think that they know everything and are better than others somehow, but this is not true, most or almost all only just studied to finish the course and hadn't thought enough to accomplish more than being a parrot. I no nothing yet... I'm not better than anyone... I'm just trying to learn more and take you in the right direction with me. And still so i have privilege information, that non of you had contact to. And i hope to let you know more about in near future when we all work side by side.

In the end non of you might believe that any of us can accomplish anything alone. I wish an organized team, and wish all you WFC enthusiasts be part of it, because you all, only by being thinking and doing things over to try make such a good thing as a WFC, already deserve my full consideration, and merit honors.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2011, 20:41:06 pm
I'm a bachelor physics student. And i'm referring to the chokes, only. (Vo-Vn) performs work... 
12-12=0 in terms of circuit impedance gives 0volts... as is clear...  0 volts divided by whatever resistance = 0 power consume. Of course if you send |+12v|    +    |-12v| you will get 24v of potential difference... I'm not talking about this part. This alone won't give any difference from electrolysis...  yet this part is still needed for the completion of the system.

See: Vic matrix circuit memo426 and than re read again the memo 420

it wouldn't be 12-12=0.....it would be 12-(-12)=24.....basic mathematics, we are working with positive and negative integers here.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 01:04:33 am
Where did the idea that the chokes were different sizes come from? I kind of agree with Fabio if I am understanding him correctly. The chokes need to have opposing fields or poles. Voltage drop of the diode should have negligible or no effect on the chokes. 24V is 24V no matter how you do the math.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 01:23:00 am
Some Basics...
Quote
Potential energy and zero reference.
Potential energy is the capacity to do work. Potential energy is an integral function of force and as such, has a constant of integration. This constant can be set to any value needed to establish a desired zero point for the potential energy. Because this constant is arbitrary, the point of zero potential is completely arbitrary, although we usually pick the zero point by convenience or some logical choice. Because the point of zero potential is arbitrary, it is the difference in potential that has physical meaning to us.


Electric potential and zero reference
Electric potential energy per unit charge is also called electric potential and is measured in volts. Voltage is the difference in electric potential between two points. If an electric field exists between points A & B, and is directed from A to B, the electric potential rise from B to A is equal to the work it would take to move a positive unit charge from point B to point A. Because of the arbitrary constant of integration, the point of zero electric potential is completely arbitrary, although we usually pick the zero point by convenience or some logical choice.


Instantaneous direction for an electric field.
An electric field exerts a force on both positive and negative charges. We call the force that the field exerts on a positive charge to be the positive force direction, and thus the direction of the electric field. With this definition of the electric field direction, we say an electric field is radially outward from a positive charge and radially inward towards a negative charge.


Direction for an AC field.
The voltage with the AC we are most familiar with is represented by an alternating sinusoidal wave and the direction of voltage rise changes every 1/2 cycle. A point charge in the alternating electric field will experience a force in one direction for 1/2 cycle, then a force in the opposite direction for 1/2 cycle. The zero reference point for the measurement of the electric potential for that point charge is arbitrary.

For this potential, the capacity to do work increases to a maximum, then decreases back to zero during each 1/2 cycle with no set positive or negative direction for the full cycle. A positive or negative direction is a choice that we make.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 01:55:42 am
Quote
What happens when two "in-phase" voltages are combined?
Each 1/2 cycle, each voltage will reach a maximum capacity to do work. While the direction of force is arbitrary, we have picked positive directions for both voltages such that the direction we call "positive" maximum capacity for both sources is in the same direction.

We have defined our voltages such that the rise in potential in each conductor is in the same direction, and the capacity to do work will double across both sources. That is what polarity is about: making sure that we align our forces like we want them.


So what happens when two voltages are combined that are out of phase by 180°?
Each 1/2 cycle, each voltage will reach a maximum capacity to do work. While the direction of force is arbitrary, we have picked positive directions for both voltages such that the directions we call "positive" maximum capacity are in opposite directions.

We have defined our voltages such that the potential rises in each conductor are in opposite directions. However, for the "opposite" voltage, the capacity to do work in the "negative" direction is still there. This "negative" capacity to do work will combine with the "positive" capacity to do work of the other voltage. The capacity to do work will double across both sources. Again, that is what polarity is about: making sure that we align our forces like we want them.


Each two-terminal AC source can have a "positive" direction assigned because direction is arbitrary. That goes back to the fundamental definition of electric potential. The voltage produces a force in both directions and it is our assignment of "positive" and "negative" directions that make the difference. Polarity only helps us to align the forces, whether or not we have called them positive or negative.

Why is a 180° difference in the opposite direction not the same as taking the negative of a DC voltage like a battery?
A constant DC voltage does not change direction. The capacity to do work always increases in one direction. Because the electric potential always increases in one direction, there is no phase associated with the DC voltage.

The AC voltage, on the other hand, has a change in direction every 1/2 cycle. The AC voltage has a phase in addition to the assigned positive and negative.

Let's place ourselves between two points that have a difference in potential.

Suppose we look in the direction of a voltage rise on a DC source. Then suppose we turn and look in the opposite direction. In that opposite direction we will always see a decrease in electric potential.

Suppose we look in the direction of a voltage rise on an AC source. Then suppose we turn and look in the opposite direction. In that opposite direction, at that instant, we will see a decrease in electric potential. But, if we wait until 180° later, we will see an increase in electric potential. We can make use of the voltage rise in either direction because the choice of direction of voltage rise is just that: a choice.

We can prove this by combining two sources with the positive voltage rises defined in opposite directions (two voltage sources with a 180° displacement). The force created by the fall of one voltage combines with the force created by the rise of the other. The currents and flux created by these will be the exact same as those created by combining two sources with positive voltage rises defined in the same direction.

It is our assignment of positive and negative that is arbitrary because the AC source has no defined positive and negative direction.

Pulsed DC, on the other hand, has some characteristics of AC while retaining the directional characteristics of DC.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 02:26:30 am
Yes, man this is the idea. well 12+12-12 = 12 The wfc receive the positive pulse and later it receive a negative pulse... when positive the molecules get exited by the polarization process, the bound ceases to exist and during the negative pulses the ions regain the electrons and exit as gas.

Read this good explanation of the water kelvin dropper. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00908.htm
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 03:46:39 am
The circuitry is really irrelevant in the end. The classic statement, "Let the voltage do the work." is almost an insane statement unless you put it in the proper context. To assume an electrical voltage potential alone can split a water molecule, let alone a few trillion in a container, without any flow of current throughout the entire circuit is ludicrous.  Take that same statement and use it on an atomic level, it has a different meaning. Just as there is a voltage potential between acids and bases, gases also can take on such characteristics. If we were to mix an unstable mass with a stable mass, what do you suppose would happen? Would it violently react in any way? Suppose we were to mix extremely unstable, positively charged oxygen and hydrogen(electron deficient) with water in a voltage zone of 50Kv or so. What will be the reaction?

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2011, 04:36:01 am
Meyer explained pretty well in the first video of the Newzealand meeting, the polarization process charges the water till the point its bound ceases to exist. I think the water can instantaneously explode if picked too hard of course, just like stan said it was possible... but himself said 20to40kv where needed simply break the water.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2011, 02:04:38 am
hi lads, i have a question:
With regard to the cell and waveform circuitry and the vic - i was watching a video about meyer explaining how they control the injector - i dont remember the exact phrases will go check again off top of my head but either voltage was increases / reduced and or waveform amplitude was altered to produce more or less energy, so with that thought - when using a cell - has anyone managed to find a way to control the rate of gas production - for when in a vehicle it appears a variable rate of production would be needed. thanks
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2011, 04:04:42 am
I think we need to get some gas production before we figure that one out. But Stan said you can simply control your input voltage between 0 and 12 volts to control gas flow. Also he had a sensor monitoring the pressure of the cell and I believe if it got to high, production is slowed but maybe someone else can say for sure
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 01, 2011, 10:38:56 am
Hello Dave,

Yes, he said he could simply vary the gas production changing or the Dc voltage or the gated pulses... In his circuit there is a segment where it receive a logic signal from the pressure sensor, so when the pressure reach a certain value the circuit simply turn off, until the gas is demanded. 

wfchobby,

I have a circuit similar to what meyer patented, where i can control the pulses sent to the pll. so i can vary the duty cycle 0-100% and frequency of the gate, i also have a variac, so i can vary the input pulses voltage..

 
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2012, 17:18:11 pm
Tony,I basically agree with most of what you stated.As for resonance taking place between choke 1 and the cell is where I see it differently.Yes resonance will take place there,but most of the resonance is in choke coil 1 itself.The capacitance in the choke is far greater than the cell.When you tune into resonance,disconnect the cell and see what happens.You will see a voltage drop and the frequency will need to be reajusted to get it back.This happens because you removed the small capacitance of the cell,but it will still resonate without the cell.

Choke 2 is needed to give you the the opposite voltage potential of choke 1.And I do believe you are onto something with the 180 degree phase shift for choke 2.I have never thought about putting the negative choke out of phase.You lit a light bulb in my head over that one.I will be testing that out when I get my new coils wound.
Don

Removing the capacitor and leaving the circuit open changes the capacitance but the capacitance is still there from the wire gap,  just a lot smaller.  That is why it is necessary to retune the frequency.

TS
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2012, 21:20:49 pm
Yes, man this is the idea. well 12+12-12 = 12 The wfc receive the positive pulse and later it receive a negative pulse... when positive the molecules get exited by the polarization process, the bound ceases to exist and during the negative pulses the ions regain the electrons and exit as gas.

Read this good explanation of the water kelvin dropper. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00908.htm

I don't want to impose heavily here, but in short Sebosasto, Tony is right.  What all your diagrams are doing is confusing what is a very straightforward diagram made by Meyers. You are trying to make Meyers designs fit your own personal theory in this case instead of making your theory fit Meyers design.

My 2 cents.

TS

Edit:  I now believe I was wrong in saying the above.  Sebofasto's explanation is correct when you consider opposing coil polarities.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2012, 23:55:31 pm
I was simply reading meyer diagrams and transcribing for you. I didn't invented or wanted to tell you i'm right and others not... I only analysed the polarities of the coils... Please prove wrong.

The secondary in those diagrams add to the tx4 choke and the tx5 choke subtracts the exact amount the tx4 added so turns to zero the tx chokes interaction, stan says its a resonant charging choke ..., you need to see the direction of the wire not the bobbin drawing direction...  whats the big deal? isn't it bifilar?

Would you apply say 3kv between the two wires of a bifilar choke? I don't think so... it burns...

If you have dc in a coil with a core being pulsed you get it rapidly into saturation, so the bifilar is exactly to cancel the dc magnetic field to avoid core saturation...

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2012, 18:27:00 pm
Yea if you look at Stan's VIC transformer diagrams he shows the chokes being connected so that the voltages will be 180 degrees out of phase from each other.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/StanMeyer_5VIC_fig3-23.jpg)
Hi,

Made this updated diagram visualizing the 180 degrees out of phase.
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2205.0;attach=11450)

Br,
Webmug
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2012, 04:53:40 am
From the point of view of my theory, this vic can work too... but in a different manner... while the pulse is on

secondary and tx4 the coil after the diodes are additive so the tx5 coil must be big enough for choking both voltages sumed and be able to turn off the diode to allow the field to collapse...  the wave forms are not like this nor are the voltages you represent.. but this are only my opinion,,, \


I mean let the secondary send 100v than the choke1 additive is another 100 than the choke 2 should have more than 200 volts to be able to aways restrict the amps..

I mean you never allow amp influx thru the water... or something like minimum ... there should be no potential difference.. at least not due to conduction...

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2012, 10:21:06 am
Yea if you look at Stan's VIC transformer diagrams he shows the chokes being connected so that the voltages will be 180 degrees out of phase from each other.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/StanMeyer_5VIC_fig3-23.jpg)
Hi,

Made this updated diagram visualizing the 180 degrees out of phase.
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2205.0;attach=11450)

Br,
Webmug

Nice work!
Good theory.
Can you make this work?

Steve
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2012, 13:41:20 pm
I've been able to get this wave form on my cell.  But it only shows as about 4 volts and I still don't have much production with it yet.

TS
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2012, 14:44:20 pm
I've been able to get this wave form on my cell.  But it only shows as about 4 volts and I still don't have much production with it yet.

TS
Do you mean top diagram Figure 4 below. Gated step-charge signal? My WFC produces only AC about 60V Vpp.

Regards
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2012, 16:36:14 pm
I want to stress that this vic can indeed work but as i said the tx5 coil should be able to restrict all the amps or a coil should be added in series with the tx4 coil but in a separated core not subjected to the pulsing... such that the energy accumulated in this coil balances the circuit...

The only difference is that this vic sends a negative pulse... except that as i said a coil is added in series with the tx4... 

Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2012, 02:44:35 am
Please forgive me, if i insist, i just want help you to not make the same mistakes i did in the past...
 
Did you understood the coil polarity? Did you understood why it must be like this? Anyone else understood, (learned) how to determine the polarity of a coil in a given magnetic varying field?

Think of the most repeated argument meyer used, about electronic circuit...


I guess now its the time to public reverse my opinion about meyer process.. i always stated: its resonance thus it needs amps... but now that i think that i understood it, i got to report, its only high voltage but almost Zero amps. However I'm not saying there isn't high current on the process of making this. Nor that is low amps cause the resonance is about a high inductance and small capacitance... Is an amp restriction mechanism..

The high voltage is not the essence, the essence is actually the same of (conservation of momentum) two people pushing them selfs while sitting on ice, if both have the same masses, both achieve the same velocity for a given impulse. however if one has a bigger mass and the other a tiny one, the individual, with lower mass, will get higher velocity than the one with the larger mass for a given impulse. In this case, mass is or is what causes amp restriction, velocity is potential. So if you create a big mass reference, you can jump on space from it and achieve a higher velocity than it. However the important is that the center of mass will always remain at the same point!!! Major property!  R(position vector) * M (sum of all masses) = ∑(mi*ri) (Sum of all individual masses multiplied by its individual position... so R=(∑(mi*ri))/M

Is the same for electricfields...  They walk in the reverse direction of the electrons...

The bifilar chokes can't have 40kv between the wires, i guess this is obvious for all... This was what lead me to discover that stan was talking about opposing fields in the chokes and was for real...

The vic matrix circuit is the closer stan arrived from telling us the true... however he don't show the polarities in it.

The vic impedance network is there to confuse, as the amps are getting "restricted" only by the shorted turns segment of the choke... actually having this short circuited section, both orientations would do it teoretically ...maybe thats why he never used the polarities of the chokes on the drawings..(of course first of all protection) because first one should understand the reason of the polarities and than, that theres even other ways to restrict the amps...       

I owe you an apology sebosfasto for my previous post!!!  You are absolutely correct in this.  However, there is even more to it than this which I am coming to understand.  We need to discuss this.

TS
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2012, 15:39:09 pm
I know was not that easy to glue all that info... Sometimes it takes a time to absorb...

Now I'm prepared to say...


If you read the fracture cell patent... this patent clearly states that the chokes are not a really good way to restrict the amps--- they use plastic...

So again my theory says this chokes will choke off the supplied voltage while allowing the potential to oscillate around a "center of mass" reference point-

What does the plastic in the fracture cell? isn't it the same? a drop in the voltage while allowing the electric fields to still there but avoiding faradaic current...

If you make a capacitor and charge it you create an electric field, a force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its potential energy and as such doesn't get consumed except by the leakage of the capacitor of course....
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2012, 15:56:21 pm
There is even more to it.  I think I'm on to something.

TS
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2012, 16:02:27 pm
Real man here at work... 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2012, 16:42:19 pm
The force can be screened by the ions as they will generate an opposite field that tries to cancel the original field... A dielectric will reduce this force too, according to its dielectric constant...

If you insert a dielectric in a charged capacitor its voltage drops and the electric field become weaker by k dielectric constant.

50kv mm is the same as 50MegaVolts/meter or 50 million newtons per coulomb...

Question once you charge your capacitor, and disconnect it from source,  assuming its ideal, how can you consume this potential energy? No way bro

You can only add other sets of charges internally in such way that the potential is diminished for say or increased,, externally things can be done to increase or to decrease it inside but actually what happens is that if you add another layer with opposite charges outside separated by another dielectric than the electric fields internally can be reduce to zero ... equilibrium rocks... but the charges on the outside plates will point electric fields outside the capacitor...

In a two plate capacitor ideally theres no external field!

I mean you get to capacitors one inside the other, you charge the outside capacitor and disconnect it, than you charge the inner capacitor with opposite polarity with the same charge that is at the outside plates. the charges of the outer plates now will point electric fields out of the capacitor...


Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 01:09:33 am
Hi, i'm Massimo from Italy, new in the forum. I power it with 12 volts and have a question: how many turns of wire for each coil  ? .
Thanks for reply.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 01:28:00 am
It depends on how you design your circuit.
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 10:53:47 am
Hi Massimo,

We can try to help you.
Can you tell us a bit more about yr setup?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 22:52:16 pm
There is even more to it.  I think I'm on to something.

TS


What you found out recently my friend?
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 13:09:31 pm
Hi Massimo,

We can try to help you.
Can you tell us a bit more about yr setup?

Hi, thanks for replay, i want power my cell with 12 volts
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 14:17:54 pm
Ciao Massimo, ho vissuto in italia 4 anni.. piacere

Un buon modo di fare l'idrogeno sarebbe usare dele plaque di acciaio inox 316 oppure 304 ... circa di 8 celle totale per formare 1.5 volt per cella...

le celle non si devono come dire lasciare la tensione passare diretamente tra una cella e l´altra... quindi 8 celle isolate dove dovrai fare in modo di riempire con acqua

io stavo facendo una cosi.. un arrangio verticale con una placa sopra l´altra con un spazio di qualche 5 millimetri con o-ring che le separano  sendo che  le mie plaque sono 15cm per 20 per 2mm con un foro per lasciare il gas passare su e acqua entrare da sotto pero la corrente no passare diretamente tra le celle ...

 Benvenuto
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 14:27:44 pm
sto lavorando su la idea di che magari forzare l´idrogeno a passare per l´anodo fara con che si riduca il potenziale necessario per ottenere elettrolisi sendo che se io sarei correto potremo invece che 8 usare più di 20 celle isolate per gli stessi 12 volt applicati una volta che  sto teorizando che si potrebbe ridurre la tensione necessaria per generare il gas in almeno 1 volt per cella...Ho preso  l´ídea dal principio di funzionamento di una cella combustibile ad idrogeno dove l´idrogeno ao entrare in contato con un metallo si ioniza caricando lo stesso con 1,23 volt.. per cio la mia brillante idea sarebbe semplicemente farsi con che l´idrogeno generator entre in contato con l´elettrodo dove sta generando l´ossigeno diminuendo la tensione rimanente tra i due, in questo modo permettendo una reazione più efficiente. Se ti va potresti testare e dirci come ti é andata...

Saluti

scusa per gli errori grammaticali...

di dove sei in italia?     

ti invito per questa discussione sul mio thread Retry 1001 dove sto discutendo anche con gli altri..
Title: Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 18:36:00 pm
Ciao sebosfato, grazie per la tua risposta e la tua cortesia...io abito a Pistoia, in Toscana dove sono nato 56 anni fa...L'unica cella che ho costruito finora ha 13
piastre misura 10x10 (cm) connesse come +n-n e così via distanziandole con un o-ring da 1mm. Alimentata da un caricabatterie a 12 volt. Con 3A la temperatura rimane stabile, cella appena tiepida testata per 14 ore consecutive per molti giorni. Sono riuscito a far partire il motore di uno scooter 50 cc ma dopo 8-10 secondi si spengeva a causa dell'alto numero di giri dello starter automatico. Necessitava di una maggior quantità di idrogeno, più litri al minuto. Poi l'ho smontata per pulirla e l'ho rimontata togliendo la piastra neutra quindi +-+- e via. devo ancora provarla. Volevo utilizzare una scheda di alta tensione recuperata da una vecchia stampante laser, ci sono 2/3 tensioni tutte cc da 700 a 2700 volt. In questo modo credo di poter evitare l'uso dell'elettrolita, come circuito temporizzatore vorrei costruire il circuito descritto a pag 153 del file allegato.
Preferisci i messaggi in italiano o inglese ?
Saluti dall'Italia.