Free energy from an electric field!

[Login to see usernames]

A few weeks ago I finished up quantum mechanics (intro) and started electrostatics and now I'm just about to finish electromagnetism. This is only physics II so I've only scratched the surface of all these things. 

For the first time in quantum mechanics and electrostatics I was introduced to an event when energy is created (they think). Its very simple and related to what we're working on.

A charged object has an effect on its surroundings. We all know this from seeing and doing experiments with static electricity and a stream of water. The charged object bends the stream of water but does not lose its charge. How could this be? The electric field is the answer. A static electric field emits photons without discharging and these photons influence the things around it. Work is done for free 

Photons are the force carrier.

[Login to see usernames]

Nice theory.
But if an atom transmittes energy, then that will not go on forever, or am i wrong here?

[Login to see usernames]

if proton has electron then it will be neutral or discharge to be neutral??static electric only discharge to gound??

thanks
geenee

[Login to see usernames]

Nice theory.
But if an atom transmittes energy, then that will not go on forever, or am i wrong here?

Well it depends what is being transmitted. If I run a current through a gas I will produce a plasma that will emit photons until I remove the power supply. This is because the photons are being emitted when the electrons are moving to a lower energy level. That is what I think your talking about?

Now the awesome part. If i have a charged rod. A rod with a surplus of electrons. The rod cannot discharge without coming in contact with something conductive or at least something it can discharge through. So, if there is air or some other insulator between the charged object and ground or a discharged point it cannot discharge. But, it still has an effect on this objects its near. The photons I talked about are a force carrier, not a transfer of energy.
The photon is the force carrier for the electric force. It is in the upper right corner of the table bellow.

A charged rod will effect on electroscope by polarizing it. The rod is not discharging but for example if the rod was negative it would repel negative charges around it. Electrons in a conductor close bye would move as far away from the rod as possible. This would produce a polarized object. The charges in the influenced conductor will move until they get to a point of electrostatic equilibrium. But nothing is stopping me from applying the same fore to something else without recharging the rod.The rod will eventually discharge but it is not related to the objects it effects as long as it doesn't discharge into it by coming into contact with it. So, i can effect as many objects as I want without effecting the charge of the rod.

The force of the electric field is calculated by E=Kq'/(R squared) and the electric force is calculated between to charged objects  by F=Kqq'/(R squared) Everything is in absolute value.

I'm sure you guys have seen these equations before but if anyone needs more info I can explain them further.

Sometimes its hard for me to understand what others are talking about so I understand if I need to explain my points of view better. Just let me know.

[Login to see usernames]

Hello Dave

Actually those are not actual photons being emitted, its said that the electric or magnetic forces acts by exchange of virtual photons.

if you bend the ater stream, its not the electric field that is doing ork its only changing its path. Its the same for a moving charge in magnetic field being used this  don't discharge the magnet but the trajectory is bent anyway...

The concept of ork means force applied for a distance... in the case of the stream...

Did you considered this?

[Login to see usernames]

Hello Dave

Actually those are not actual photons being emitted, its said that the electric or magnetic forces acts by exchange of virtual photons.

if you bend the ater stream, its not the electric field that is doing ork its only changing its path. Its the same for a moving charge in magnetic field being used this  don't discharge the magnet but the trajectory is bent anyway...

The concept of ork means force applied for a distance... in the case of the stream...

Did you considered this?

Yes the photons are not the same as the one emitted from a bulb or the sun.

But I would not call the force carrying photons virtual. They are bundles of energy or a quanta. So a charged object emits these packets of energy without discharging. This is the part that seems so amazing to me.

In physics, a force is said to do work when it acts on a body so that there is a displacement of the point of application, however small, in the direction of the force. Thus a force does work when it results in movement.

So a change in direction toward the force is still work in my opinion. If an electroscope is charged by the field alone the leaves will repel each other. They both move. Work is done and the object that charged the electroscope still has the same charge.

[Login to see usernames]

well in terms i think your thought is not completely wrong... but i made this same question to many physicists at my university and they convinced me that as the water moves perpendicular to the field force, this is not work since its defined as force times distance times cosine of the angle between the force and the movement. and cosine of 90 is zero.

It could only do work if the water actually goes in the direction of the field and stops there because if it gets away from the field the integral turns to zero, since it does positive and negative work, do you understand?

I agree that it change the direction but the concept of work is that.

Thats why meyer implied the condition for the statement that electric fields does work for free only if the current is restricted...because if the water get in contact to the source its going to discharge the source of field... 

[Login to see usernames]

we could argue Well if you could bent a waterfall in such manner as to make the water to take this different path because of the field this mean it won a velocity in the horizontal direction for say, than where this same velocity came from? is the same velocity it has before but just in another direction.... i guess thats why work is zero... to make the water change its path it used the attraction force from the lines of force to reduce the speed in one direction and converting in other direction..