Author Topic: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........  (Read 25882 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« on: December 07, 2012, 05:12:36 am »
At risk of angering a lot of Stan Meyer fans, is anyone testing a 101 plate series cell with Boyce custom wound toroid and G board ? 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 19:25:59 pm »
I'm in the process of the build and have a ways before any testing.
Bob Boyce toroid, 129 turn secondary, had 130 turn on it but the .080" spacers (weed wacker line) allowed 129 turns perfectly spaced .080" on outer toroid core.
Primary I wanted 42 turns but ended with 41 I believe.
Checking Bob's PDF's and info this wind should be within the spec.
Series cell 101 plate, 9.5" by 5.5", a deviation from the suggested 6x6 plate. Should be within limits. But constructed in a flow through arrangement (bottom to top) no holes in plate and water feed from bottom.
At one point I want to be able to experiment with reflow gases through the cell container that are highly charged.
PWM3G board, but I will pull the 556's, attach an Arduino and pulse the transistor drivers in a separate phase configuration to search for the tiny phase offset and small pulse width.

My belief from research over the years is that the minimal voltage will tickle the water causing the water atoms to reach stretching action and a few atoms in the clusters will separate and the lower voltage will restrict the current in the cell itself. 1.5vdc per plate.
Now while the atom stretch is going on the pulses within the toroid from the primary's will or should just snap them apart.
These pulse timings are already based on frequency's that react with water. Just need a very minor shift/adjustment.
On top of this a created vortex magnetic field within the toroid/field from 3 phase spin should also imprint into the atom possibly giving it all a boost maybe by pushing on the structure of the atoms and inserting a higher/charged magnetic field.

In the Boyce system there appears to be multiple actions/reactions going on.
Some of this is relative to Meyers system.     

This may not be the information you are looking for but I'm also looking for others that will talk openly about their experimentation with the 101 cell and Boyce TPU system.
We can never have enough info.


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 02:17:17 am »
John, This is exactly the conversation I want to have. I have a complete setup, built to exact specs I am currently testing now. I have built an improved design 101 dry cell with the thoughts of introducing gas back into the cell at a later time myself, an idea i`m borrowing from all the Stan fans on this site. The G board will preform very well "exactly" as designed, but puts out the freq. at random [untied]. This is its weakness. Your idea to attach an Arduino is a good one and I will be following it closely. The winding of the torroid may well be my shortcoming. It requires a complicated math formula and then only after extensive conditioning of the plates to perfectly match the impedence of the cell. I can tell you I have light years of conditioning on my cell. I have tested primary turns fro 38 to 41 on the torroid with no apparent change in production. This is the area I have been concentrating on most. Also there is much problems with the choke designs in this circuit. What little has been written on this does not agree. Thru out all my testing I have always been able to see my waveforms behind the chokes and in places where they should not be. Remember, everything that has been written about this setup is secondhand information and much is wrong. I have over the years collected every bit and piece of info on this and found many discrepancies. This cell being my 3rd build with these same plates solves many of the problems the early replications had and I will share it all. I am a good fabricator, but fall short in in the circuit design end of it. This is where I need the help. Looking forward to a good discussion.  Nick

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 04:15:37 am »
Nick, I 'm guessing you have many of the PDF's of the Boyce TPU.
I'll upload the one I'm using.
Now this PDF has the bias windings on it and its not designed for HHO with these windings, but the rest of the info is what I used for HHO TPU.
Also a second PDF.

Lets look at the basics.
The wire used is a silver over copper Teflon coated on the TPU core as per PDF.
There are 3 chokes 2 of which on the HV side are wound with copper and the third on the LV side is wound with the silver over copper wire.
In my kit I got 3 toroids 2" or so but were spec'ed by Boyce. Out of the 3 toroids 1 is a different model although the same size.
I'm thinking I was told to wrap the one toroid with my remainders of silver/copper from the secondary wind and it goes on the primary side.
My take right now is to wind these 3 toroids with the same sized wire (ampere rating) used on the large toroid and wound pretty much all the way around the little toroids not based on any circuit formula at this time. I'm thinking magnetics here, just a core with a magnetic field introduced into the wire. Almost sounds slightly like current limiting.

The PWM3G I'm also guessing the way it is set up has 3 channels but cannot offset the phases (right?).
There is no delay from channel 1  2 or 3 so basically the 42.8k pulse channel will fire with the 21.4k and 10.7k all at the same time.
So any phasing happens when the pulses hit that primary but are placed on the secondary at 120 degree increments just using the PWM3G.
Makes me wonder if the TPU can react, I don't think its right.
What I see is lets start with the 10.7k pulse. According to the PDF it should be adjusted to produce your best output with the cell.
So it appears you must be able to measure any gas output and check this flow while adjusting the 10.7k to attain its highest point of gas which according to Bob is slightly off the 10.7k mark.
I attached the basic timing pulse model.

With that model I see if we use the 42.8k pulse with very tiny width each pulse has to be able to use the space between for the other 2 pulses and all appear to have a 50% duty.
First group fires and before the 42.8k pulse fires again the 21.4 & 10.7 have fired all with 50% time between them.
I believe the system is working on the magnetic vortex made from the pulse fire.
With the standard unmodified PWM3G it would be tough to get much reaction and that's what I think has been the trouble with this build.
It needs to be phased correctly.

I'm not a good electronics guy but know just a little and should be enough to modify that PWM3G using its drivers and transistors firing channeled pulses from the arduino.
Hopefully with the help of others we can see this in action one day.
Actually you really need to modify your setup right now to get the phasing part into action.

One more attachment, picture borrowed from a post at energeticforum, hope that's okay.
This picture reminds me of a vortex field happening on a toroid if phase pulsed.

Also make a notation that the field Boyce had a primary concern on was a longitudal wave not a standing wave.
I'm trying to get a grip of this too!
Just trying to get us started with some of the info we need and maybe others will eventually chime in.


Looks like I'm having problems posting the PDF's so I'll try the pictures first. Something about exceeding 30 seconds execution time.
Yeh I can't upload the pdf's.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 04:52:12 am by komtek »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 05:45:13 am »
About the Arduino.....

At the HydrogenGarage is a video of Donna pulsing a Boyce PWM.
This is just to show that an Arduino can pulse the Boyce PWM.
Other than that Donna is showing using the XY of the scope the signal which appears to be aether type energy.

The Arduino comes in many different variations and I got the Mega. Doesn't matter which one really but check for PWM channels usually 6 and the Mega has 14 I think.
Willem known as TXQnl over at RWGresearch made up a opensource PulseFire program that looks promising.
Also at RWGresearch Russ has quite a bit on info on the Arduino and made a test rig.

Here is another site where Willem has posted info.

Since I'm just starting out I have run into the first obstacle using the pulsefire software and that is the BootStrap has to be modified.
I found the modified bootstrap Willem posted and now you have to get a small programmer to change this BootStrap on the Arduino.
It appears the BootStrap will not reset with the PulseFire software so thats why he modified it, the program makes a reset of the BootStrap I guess.
A TinyAVR BootStrap loader programmer should take care of this update. It loads a modified BootLoader.
I sure would love to try this PulseFire program out, as it looks pretty nice and may have what we need to program various pulses.
Looks like with the program we could test the pulse out then write it to the arduino.

Or if we can program the Arduino to make the pulses and use potentiometers for duty/delay and frequency and use a 2 or 4 line display to change modes in operation.
The arduino has much more possibility later on when safety's and other control may arise, as there are many many options that can be incorporated.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 16:31:46 pm »
Okay, Let me say from the start a lot of this is over my head already, but I will tell you what I have done and my results so far. First at 160vdc [1.6v per plate] and no leaks or bypass you have no production. Zero, zzzzillch. 50% duty cycle is about the best you could hope for on the g board with out frying the fets, but this is opposite of what you want.  According to Bob and others a very fast,sharp rise and fall times is what is needed to tap the ZPE. To achieve this, the duty cycle needs to be between 90 and 95%. Since this board switches neg.this is 5 to 10% on time. At these settings, the output of the board is about 12.5 to 13vdc and about 35milamps. Absolutely no production at these low voltages. I have sat for hours on end slowly turning the fine trimpots, going thru the complete range on all 3 freq. at many different duty cycles. As you said earlier, many different things going on here. On one hand we are to believe that this fast ,sharp rise in switching times is what is needed to disturb  the zero point energys and to get our gain, [many at this site agree with this]. At this low power I can not see how the freq. can have any effect on the cell. I have seen nothing yet. I have went the 50, 60% duty cycle way as well, burning up many fets and caps . Even tried replacing them with heaver ones with no different results. Back to the chokes.  I have tried solid copper, stranded and even bifiller with several different cores. [in the early D9 docs. there was no specs given]. Shouldn`t  the chokes help contain the freq. to inside the cell to get resonance ? I can see my 3 freq. behind the bridge and have seen it at the battery as well.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 18:52:02 pm »
Well I am not even at a testing stage so any input from me is just theoretical and how a person like me views it.
In the picture below of the pulse form are those pulses not fast, sharp, rise, fall times. They appear that way to me.
Notice these pulses are phased, do yours look anything like it?
On these pulses start with 42.8khz, it stays on 16.6% of the time.
The 21.4khz pulse stays on 16.6% of time
The 10.7khz pulse the same 16.6%.
That's what it looks like.
The 16.6% also is the off time between the pulses which all appears 50% duty between the formed phased pulses in a view of all 3 phasing together.
Do you see what I see just in the picture?
That pulse picture came from one of Bob's PDF's.
If we have control of the pulse width on the arduino to achieve 5% to 50% on time (duty) we should be able to create something that looks like the phased pulse picture.
      According to Bob and others a very fast,sharp rise and fall times is what is needed to tap the ZPE.
      To achieve this, the duty cycle needs to be between 90 and 95%.

Looking at the PWM3G sitting on the table, it cannot make the phased pulse as the picture below.
My view is you need this phasing to create the vortex shaping around the toroid.
Bob makes warning about the safety issues concerned with phasing, in the PDF doc he spent a lot of time phase pulsing and did bring forth destructive force into his work place.
This HHO toroid setup is not as powerful as the DC biased multi channel coils rig.

      Shouldn`t  the chokes help contain the freq. to inside the cell to get resonance ?
You would think the answer should be yes, they are just there to help soak up BEMF from the toroid to protect the circuit and filter the AC into a nice DC line.

This setup is supposed to work on the vortex magnetic field created from phasing and shaping on the toroid.
You need a vision of shaping a field you can't see, that's why I posted the earlier picture of the lines going around the torus.

This is where I believe the basic Boyce toroid setup has failed, no field pulse phasing on the toroid.

I'm only guessing and wish I were at the testing stages and building my pulse interface system with the arduino.
Right now I'm at the point of trying to find a machinist to cut my plastic out at a reasonable rate, its only a few pieces of plastic but needs to be cut on a CNC. 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: 101 plate cell, G board and Toroid ..........
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 19:49:43 pm »
Hey Nick,
Wondering if you connected a variac out the inverter and raised your voltage from 120 just up enough to start current conduction in the cell.
Also I'm guessing you have the appropriate electrolyte.?