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bjorn:
Thank you for your information and comments. If we knew how Stan could make so much hydrogen in so short time, the whole problem would have been solved, right??
I wold really like to know if anybody in ionizationx here have made any fuel cells (Hydrogen generators) that will produce a good amount of Hydrogen. I have only made a few different ones with 316 st.steel plates. My experience from them is that more plates don't make more hydrogen with the same amperage. I also find out that with 1/8" plates I get more production than with thin .0030 plates. So my best one now have a mix of thin and thick plates. It take some time to make all of this, so I would appreciate to hear from somebody that have made some different experiments. I have not yet made any dry cells that seem to be popular on the internet, and I have not tried to make the kind that Stan Meier made with tubing. I don't know if it make much different? Any way the one in Stan's video will take a lot of space.
Bjorn
HMS-776:
I made quite a few electrolysis based
units when I first got started. I found
The smack booster worked well and
Produced about 1-2 lpm. I got a 10mpg
boost but It did not last.
i eventually gave up on electrolysis units
for the following reasons:
-the production is dependant on temperature,
during the winter months production was almost
non existent, and in the summer I often had problems with
boiling water. If you don't have the electrolyte
Levels right problems will arise.
-the other problem was tuning a fuel injected
engine properly when the hydrogen production
Is dependant on temperature and electrolyte
levels. there are many who have had success
with boosters. In my case they were more work
than they were worth.
When it comes to running an engine on
just hydrogen the biggest problem is
hydrogen's low energy density. Stan
Meyer solved this problem with the gas processor.
Donaldwfc:
Bjorn, here is the deal in short form.
Electrolysis is following a law that says the amount of substance collected at an electrode is equal to the amount of current that flows through the electrode, and current is coulombs per second, and coulombs is a number of electrons, so what this tells us is that electrons are being exchanged at the electrode and releasing the gas, you can think of it like this, electrons are tickets for milkshakes, the more tickets you exchange, the more milkshakes you get, and that is the law, with electrolysis you can never get more milkshakes than you have tickets, because it's an exchange process.
Stan's process is different in a basic way, it doesn't use this exchange process, no electrons/tickets are needed at the electrode, he never calls them electrodes either because they are not electrodes, he calls them exciters or plates, and the idea is simple, and the whole device is probably simple too if you understood it, it's just this understanding thing that gets people off track. we want to apply an "electrical attraction force" with the use of voltage and an electric field across the water, and the current needs to be restricted, and the pulsing of the voltage at a frequency that matches the motion of the water in a standing wave between the plates will cause it to break apart faster, the water has a positive and negative side, and he calls this process the Electrical Polarization Process, which is a descriptive emphasizer of the way it works with the facts that the water is polar in structure, and he uses an electrical circuit to polarize and separate the water.
You have to decide between the two processes, if you want to play with electrolysis then you can optimize for that process, and will be limited by that process, you need to use high current, and your efficiency loss is due to heating of the water, and expense due to cost of distilled water and electrolyte additives such as KOH and NaOH.
There is information that suggests boosters can increase internal combustion engines net efficiency, helping only to get more energy out of the gasoline by burning it faster and more completely, which requires something in the neighborhood of 20 liters per minute of hydrogen and oxygen, and not 1-4 liters which you commonly see in these small booster units.
If you want to work on Stan's process, then right from the start, realize it is different, and requires the proper electrical circuitry to control the process and accomplish the task. The shape of the metal has nothing to do with it besides optimization, someone with tubes doing electrolysis is fooling themselves.
bjorn:
Hi Donald,
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that for me. Glad you did not use technical descriptions but words that even a Norwegian like me can understand. From the video at Stan's workshop, his invention looked just like an electrolysis, but you say that it is not? Someplace I so that Stan was told that his system could not work because it was not possible to take out or produce more energy than you are putting in. Stan said that they was wrong, and I guess he proved it too. For me this is really complicated and I am glad for all the information you gave me. My knowledge about the electronic with resistors and all that stuff is to little.
I was really hoping that somebody had found out how Stan did it. I have also read that it is a few other guys that have their car running on hydrogen that are produced while they are driving. Don't know if it works the same way as Stan's invention or if it something different. I think one of them was located in Australia or New Zealand. I also read about a man in the Philippines that also run his car on hydrogen only. Do you know anything about that??? Or do you know about www.water4gas.com? They claimed that that they have somebody that have the solution how to produce enough hydrogen on board to run your car. As I understand they are looking for a way to release it safely. I have been in contact with them.
Bjorn
Hydrogen2Plus:
--- Quote from: bjorn on May 16, 2011, 00:17:41 am ---
Thank you for your information and comments. If we knew how Stan could make so much hydrogen in so short time, the whole problem would have been solved, right??
I wold really like to know if anybody in ionizationx here have made any fuel cells (Hydrogen generators) that will produce a good amount of Hydrogen. I have only made a few different ones with 316 st.steel plates. My experience from them is that more plates don't make more hydrogen with the same amperage. I also find out that with 1/8" plates I get more production than with thin .0030 plates. So my best one now have a mix of thin and thick plates. It take some time to make all of this, so I would appreciate to hear from somebody that have made some different experiments. I have not yet made any dry cells that seem to be popular on the internet, and I have not tried to make the kind that Stan Meier made with tubing. I don't know if it make much different? Any way the one in Stan's video will take a lot of space.
Bjorn
--- End quote ---
Hi Bjorn,
I am just like you on this matter.
To shorten your learning experience, I'll tell you my experience and hope we can learn from each other.
Study the structure of water of water first. It would make your experiments less costly. i made a mistake in skipping this and went directly to hydrogen.
As I said in another post, flat plates are inefficient. Learn from nature.
There are a lot of information in the internet which are very valuable and applicable to your experiments and people treat them as non-essential. The technology for water dissociation is already here, it's only a matter of time.
You'll see a lot of video from people making good gas production but they normally don't tell you that they use electrolytes. Look, plants produce hydrogen without electrolyte, that's what I understand from photolysis.
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