Author Topic: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!  (Read 21062 times)

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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2011, 16:41:14 pm »
Static build-up in flowing flammable and ignitable materials
Discharge of static electricity can create severe hazards in those industries dealing with flammable substances, where a small electrical spark may ignite explosive mixtures.[9]
The flowing movement of finely powdered substances or low conductivity fluids in pipes or through mechanical agitation can build up static electricity.[10] Dust clouds of finely powdered substances can become combustible or explosive. When there is a static discharge in a dust or vapor cloud, explosions have occurred. Among the major industrial incidents that have occurred are: a grain silo in southwest France, a paint plant in Thailand, a factory making fiberglass moldings in Canada, a storage tank explosion in Glenpool, Oklahoma in 2003, and a portable tank filling operation and a tank farm in Des Moines, Iowa andValley Center, Kansas in 2007.[11][12][13]
The ability of a fluid to retain an electrostatic charge depends on its electrical conductivity. When low conductivity fluids flow through pipelines or are mechanically agitated, contact-induced charge separation called flow electrification occurs.[14] Fluids that have low electrical conductivity (below 50 picosiemens per meter), are called accumulators. Fluids having conductivities above 50 pS/m are called non-accumulators. In non-accumulators, charges recombine as fast as they are separated and hence electrostatic charge accumulation is not significant. In the petrochemical industry, 50 pS/m is the recommended minimum value of electrical conductivity for adequate removal of charge from a fluid.
Kerosines may have conductivity ranging from less than 1 picosiemens per meter to 20 pS/m. For comparison,
deionized water has a conductivity of about 10,000,000 pS/m or 10 ┬ÁS/m.
Transformer oil is part of the electrical insulation system of large power transformers and other electrical apparatus. Re-filling of large apparatus requires precautions against electrostatic charging of the fluid, which may damage sensitive transformer insulation.
An important concept for insulating fluids is the static relaxation time. This is similar to the time constant  (tau) within an RC circuit. For insulating materials, it is the ratio of the static dielectric (The relative permittivity of a material for a frequency of zero is known as its static relative permittivity or as its dielectric constant)
[/color][/font]constant divided by the electrical conductivity of the material. For hydrocarbon fluids, this is sometimes approximated by dividing the number 18 by the electrical conductivity of the fluid. Thus a fluid that has an electrical conductivity of 1 pS/m has an estimated relaxation time of about 18 seconds. The excess charge in a fluid dissipates almost completely after four to five times the relaxation time, or 90 seconds for the fluid in the above example.Charge generation increases at higher fluid velocities and larger pipe diameters, becoming quite significant in pipes 8 inches (200 mm) or larger. Static charge generation in these systems is best controlled by limiting fluid velocity. The British standard *  PD CLC/TR 50404:2003 (formerly * -5958-Part 2) Code of Practice for Control of Undesirable Static Electricity prescribes pipe flow velocity limits. Because water content has a large impact on the fluids dielectric constant, the recommended velocity for hydrocarbon fluids containing water should be limited to 1 meter per second.
Bonding and earthing are the usual ways charge buildup can be prevented. For fluids with electrical conductivity below 10 pS/m, bonding and earthing are not adequate for charge dissipation, and anti-static additives may be required.
I read this yesterday in my friend house, I think is very related.

Fueling operations
The flowing movement of flammable liquids like gasoline inside a pipe can build up static electricity. Non-polar liquids such as paraffin, gasoline, toluene, xylene, diesel, kerosene and light crude oils exhibit significant ability for charge accumulation and charge retention during high velocity flow. Static electricity can discharge into a fuel vapor.[16] When the electrostatic discharge energy is high enough, it can ignite a fuel vapor and air mixture. Different fuels have different flammable limits and require different levels of electrostatic discharge energy to ignite.
Electrostatic discharge while fueling with gasoline is a present danger at gas stations. Fires have also been started at airports while refueling aircraft with kerosene. New grounding technologies, the use of conducting materials, and the addition of anti-static additives help to prevent or safely dissipate the build up of static electricity.
The flowing movement of gases in pipes alone creates little, if any, static electricity.[17] It is envisaged that a charge generation mechanism only occurs when solid particles or liquid droplets are carried in the gas stream.

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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2011, 17:33:33 pm »
I think that only with an electrostatic voltmeter we can measure accurately the water charge, and the tubes charge. As they only measure the voltage from the force of the field therefore without flow of charges.

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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2011, 20:13:21 pm »
I'm trying to think about the relation to Van de Graf charging.


I mean, as there are two capacitors one inside the other, something tell me that when we charge the inner capacitor the outer will get charged as well. I'm not pretty sure...


A Van the Graf generator accumulate Voltage by inputing charge in the middle of the ball, as it is conductive, the law of physics say that no charge will remain inside a conductor. So every time you go there to put a charge on it it will accept as there will never be a charge inside of it.


The thing is that i don't understand what charge can be placed there, negative? well i'm trying to find out what really happens, since 5 years i think is related and now that i found this relation between the outer capacitance, i think it more than ever.


any ideas?




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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2011, 02:24:57 am »

Well, I found in a brazilian website for physics experiments the edison effect, they just took a regular lamp (filament) and added a top made of aluminum paper, than they could light a neon bulb connecting it to the aluminum and  to the base of the lamp. Only half of the neon lighted up so they say it happens like a rectification.


They also say that any heating element will do this.




Well got to say this is very exiting, i'm thinking a way to get around with those electrons and thought of the following, to have a heating element inside a copper tube and to add another isolated supply between the filament and the tube (positive to the tube) this will deflect the electrons possibly ionizing the air passing there thus maybe eliminating those electrons.


 
Other thing that crossed my mind is that if you just operate the cell thru this amp consuming device, being everything isolated ground there should occur electron extraction too and therefore also the water polarization.


The thing is that you need to light the filament so it can emit electrons away like stan said. And a way to get them consumed or tracked at least so we can know where they are going should be found.


I have here some SS wire and some ceramics formers for high temp resistors wire wound. I will check how much current should pass in order to light it up. I also think that coating it with low work function material would help. But the idea to add the field makes of it a thermo emission field effect aided.


I read today in some books that if you apply a field to the emission you increase the emission. This is called field emission. Light can also be used to help.


I repeat that maybe the amp restriction is also acomplish by the crossed fields on the electrons, like the negative electrode to be the positive stationary field in relation to outside the bath so the positive field don't allow the electrons to flow cause it attracts them.


Other thing i thought of is that the electron extraction thereto can be used being in series with the cell or to discharge the outside electrode.


I think that also a spark gap is a good way to send away electrons. (not very good idea having hydrogen around)


I want to explain a little better why the water would get positive charges if the electron extraction (lamp) is used in series (and of course if everything is isolated from ground).
 
A battery to have potential this happens cause of electrons go from the negative side to complete the way thru the circuit and get killed on the positive side. If you make the electrons go away from the circuit, the positive of the battery will not get destroyed. Actually i guess it will but will be because of the electrons that exited the bath, thus leaving the water a net positive charge. Witch interacts with the sub atomic forces within the water molecule and thereby switch off the covalent bounding.


Problems are, How to consume the electrons. (maybe solved)


How to know the exact filament to make it shine bright.


I thought of doing the following experiment.


To take a heating filament that lights up bright when 20 amps pass thru it. Than connect to the isolated bath direct from the battery. Than measure the voltage of the water in relation to the outside of the container.


I think that if all this is true probably few crude experiments could prove the point.








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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2011, 02:39:24 am »
would also say that maybe the amp inhibiting coil is the one that goes connected  to the outside of the container. And i would say that it has a closed loop induction core in order to compensate and thus complete the resonant frequency.


I mean, In the Vic Sync pulse.


Both charging chokes go to the tubes and the amp inhibiting go to outside the container. (in the tech paper stan say SS wire for it) Not sure if really needed. Except if he wanted it to also become its amp consuming device. As per the temperature ss support and as by skin effect it would have the probability of emiting electrons. We shall not let anything pass unobserved.


I mean, the inductance of the secondary plus that of the chokes 56 and 62 than all this multiplied by the capacitance of the tubes, must equal to the inductance of half of the secondary + the amp inhibiting+ the choke 62 all this multiplied by the relative capacitance to the outside of the container.


In my analysis this form a resonant tank perfectly in equilibrium. And agree with my theory that the outside must be the 0v or relative ground.


This is pretty similar to the picture of dan danfor but not exactly. Is like if the water charge only in one direction and when the current should change direction it does but going to the outside capacitor. All this affect the water.




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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2011, 09:18:26 am »
Sebos
Can you take look at this vid :
Dr. Stiffler SEC Exciter Hydrogen production via diode
thank
andy

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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2011, 14:30:44 pm »
I have saw this before. He simply transmit the electricity and the diode receive like a antenna but as it rectifies you see the bubbles coming out of the water. I don't really see anything special. What you think about the video? I'm missing something?




This night kept thinking to the exhaustion about how the vic sync could be in resonance.


I guess i found why.


Being the drawing i made in page two of this thread correct.


I split it into two half wave resonance.


I made some calculations using 5 khz as the base. And i thought of this!


The side having the water capacitor being the water capacitor 1,6nf, the coils and choke must totalize 600mh
This comprise The amp inhibiting coil one piece of the secondary of the transformer and the upper choke.


The other side being the outside capacitance 300pf  the coils must totalize 3,3H
Being the Amp inhibiting coil, the bigger piece of secondary and the lower choke.


Basically i think the secondary and the bottom choke must be bigger if all this is correct.


This way everything will resonate.



differently


If the amp inhibiting coil go instead to the outside of the container. Witch i think is very possible.


Than the figure would be different. By obvious reasons. The thing is that half the circuit inductance multiplied by the respective capacitance must equal the other half inductance multiplied by the other respective capacitance. As the capacitances are different the coils must agree to make everything resonate at the same frequency.


I'm thinking about the possibility of some of the chokes or even the amp inhibiting coil making part of the same transformer.

I will call the Amp Inhibiting coil from now AIC

The variable resonant charging choke   VRCC

The resonant charging choke RCC




I say this because whenever you have a choke after a diode in the same core, the voltage become kind of limitless.


What could also be is that the transformer is one core, the RCC chokes another core and the AIC another core, or at least this in the same core of the transformer.


Well, I don't know. I believe we should try all the possibilities exhaustively.


However my best guess is that the AIC go to the tube and not outside. And that possibly the outer and inner tube could be reversed polarity maybe being the inside 0v. Again many things to be tested. Everything must be draw analyzed and take notes.

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Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2011, 15:18:29 pm »
I think meyer got the way of calculating the coils and capacitors by complex impedance to match the perfect resonance as the coils have resistance there is a deviation of the resonant frequency.