Author Topic: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!  (Read 21057 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« on: January 19, 2011, 03:11:49 am »
Ok. I am not sure if anyone has put this together but here goes.

Stan did point out the theory/process in his Tech Brief and his patents and here is why. First I am going to talk about the principle of electronics of a general nature.

Electricity needs voltage and current. Voltage in electrical is pressure. Current is the flow of electrons per sec. So what is the flow of electrons which is current? Well you need voltage of course, but what voltage does is push the physical mass of the electrons physical mass which is the electron out of each orbit of copper or related material to produce movement to create electricity. The reason this can be done is the force of the outer orbit of the electron in copper is very weak. Voltage pushes the electron. This physical force of the electrons creates current. Ok.

Now if we look at Stans equation he points out out acceleration = Force/mass. Mass is the physical component and the Force is Voltage which is represent by the formula of two charges/radius^2. This is directly related to the flow of current.

So how does this work for Stans process. Well it is easy. The physical mass of his circuit was directly relate to the atoms of Oxygen and Hydrogen aka(Water). The higher voltage is needed to push the physical mass of the atoms apart. The force of voltage does need to be in both opposition to each other.  Meaning a high positive and high negative voltage on both sides. One of the positive voltage pulls the oxygen atom while the negative side pulls the hydrogen atom. The reason for the high voltages is looked at because you are pulling a very much larger mass.  :)

Now I know most everyone know this but the point I am make is how his circuit does not use current. He is building a high voltage to create the force need to act on the water molecule. The only current draw is the circuit resistance getting to build a charge across the capacitor.

It is no different than the theory of electricity which has the same principles. Instead you are looking at it at a larger scale from the atom itself.

This is how voltage can work by splitting the water molecule!!



Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 14:11:53 pm »
Yes! Thats exactly what i'm saying!


If you put 12volts on the water and it have a gap of 1mm you have an electric field of 12kv/m. This is a huge force acting on the ions inside the water. The fact is that if the water don't conduct electricity (pure water) you get a very tiny current when you apply 12v however you are providing the separation of the ions h+ and oh-. What stan do is to than collect this ions generating electricity while stabilizing and or destabilizing the ions. When you close the circuit you generate the gas. Stan went even further and used the heating element to avoid the stabilization of the gases so they came out of the water as ions as electrons are emited cause of the heat. Is very much like creating a fusion reaction between the two sides of the coin so thats why he could run a car with very small amount of gas. I found a formula for particle acceleration that say acceleration is equal to the charge of the particle divided by its mass than multiplied by the electric field. Basically is right however the acceleration would be limitless being even much bigger than that of light speed. So all this to say stan used some of the proton 938Mev and electron 511Kev rest energy to cause thermal expansion. The total energy of a particle is its kinetic energy plus its rest energy. If you apply 12v on a particle it will travel from one electrode to the other and when it complete the travel it will have a kinetic energy of 12ev. 1 ev is = to the value of a charge but is a measure of energy in joules. Ev is charge divided by potential difference. Voltage is how many joules you have per coulomb. 


The thing is that if the both voltages across the water being positive and negative have no relation to each other in the sense that it is not connected physically. You can still have a big deal of electric field without current leaking. I mean two transformers or only one with isolated secondaries connected only with one wire obviously thru a diode. Maybe two 100Mohm resistor are needed just to complete the circuit.


I'm trying to find how to calculate the ions speed as to find the frequency you can apply. WIth the right equipment and materials i could determine this empirically, however the investors are still afraid. Soon i will have a lab with limitless funds and a mathematician friend to work on it than will be very easy.


The real big problem is that you must trap the ions kinetically so they can become electricity. Stan used the coil so he could short the circuit without shorting the source. When he shorted the circuit the coil start to get charged and when he opened the coil discharge again. This is what he meant by restrict the current in a dead short condition, and frequency doubling. Now that i have more time i would like to work on this but i don't have a decent oscilloscope nor money to buy more components. Hopefully a good soul will invest in me soon. 


I'm quite certain that stan didn't used SS or at least that is not the best option. Maybe and i say only maybe he succeeded in creating so much force that even the SS worked.


The thing is that you apply 12v and lets say during the charge of the water 1ma flowed, This mean that than all the ions of the water will be glued on the electrodes, with contrary same voltage and with much greater current thus more electrical energy than went in.


Steve once connected the oscilloscope to the water applied maybe 12 volts and than disconnected and than noticed something that at that time we discussed and thought to be a back emf. Well it wasn't, it was the real voltage of the ions. This pretty much prove what i'm saying.


I'm glad you understood it AnsientMist. If you read my last 20 posts you might understand even more. I'm trying to explain this since a long time.


I think we should work with a water very very pure maybe using 1000volts this complicate a bit the switching.



Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 15:48:46 pm »
Sebosfato,every cell that Stan had was made with stainless steal,that I am certain,because I've seen all of them personally.And I do know what stainless looks like.
Don

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 16:31:58 pm »
Hey sebosfato.

Your process does follow in the same manner. Finding the relationship of the acting force on the electrons in the water molecule. That is true and is better suited for the use of the extraction circuit. This does also happen in the WFC. But in my opinion the voltage force is needs to be directly related to the atoms of the water molecule because the atom has a very much larger mass.  The mass of the atom either hydrogen or oxygen needs to considered.

In sense any frequency can work as long as you build a high voltage potential on both sides.  Stan just used resonance to build this high voltage. Both sides of voltage potential physicals pulls the atoms just like Voltage pushes the electrons to make electricity. It is just looked at a different way but it is needed to have two opposite Voltages of the same magnitude.

Because of this I am hoping to solve mathematically how the basic principles of electrical theory (which came from electrical physics) can prove Stan’s work. I am going to work on this today since I cannot contribute to the building process until the future.. But soon.... Cause I want to so bad!!!!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 16:57:12 pm by AncientMist »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 17:30:46 pm »
Hello Dynodon,
i know you saw them and i actually believe that might be possible to do it with ss. I just think that maybe along the years maybe his cells could have being changed to SS or maybe there was a coating on the inside of the electrodes and it were taken off just to make the thing stop working... I don't really know, just think is possible. Or maybe it can work with ss and maybe stan or someone changed the things to not work and keep the secret... The strange thing is that from stan words its very possible to do work but one must be not only an electrical engineer to correctly design the circuit but must be also a physicist with knowledge in real particle acceleration and plasma to understand fully and be able to replicate what he did. He talks to those with really knowledge in the art.


When i say kinetically trapped i mean the ions must get into the vacancies of the metal much like cold fusion when deuterium get into the palladium "absorbed". When i first heard about cold fusion i don't remember when, I heard that a hell of energy could be generated but not only heat but also  electricity since than i never heard anything about it to generate electricity directly. Anyway stan said it was possible so as my friend so i start from the point that i believe them and started dissecting to find what really happens to be able to do this. My friend said that with the right materials and his secret the thing works, when i asked him about ss he said he didn't know how to do with it, i think that for the same reason i said.


The thing is that SS is an alloy or mixture of different metals witch have different masses sizes so the vacancies are much smaller so the probability of trapping ions there are not pretty big. On the other side is known that the D orbit of the platinum kind attracts the hydrogen thats why it works as a catalyst. So thats what i'm saying maybe the SS is enough to make the reaction, but if we were to potentialize the effect to be able to see better the effect maybe some other materials should be used at least at first to understand better whats going on.


Voltage is = to separation of given density of charge.



Hello AncientMist,


I think the resonance is used not only to create the high potential but also for being able to take advantage of the energy created there to make the potential even higher. Under resonance you can recirculate the energy, basically is a very big storage mean able to store many kw of power for 100 of cycles..


Yes and Another thing to consider is the density of the water and the resistance against the movement of the ion to find its maximum speed and maybe even a relativistic adjustment to limit the speed in relation to the speed of light. 


You might be even right here and i also think that with proper equipment and a very strong potential you could even work at any frequency but would be very nice to know the maximum frequency and do get there from the math too. =) Go on!
 Meyer controlled the voltage and the frequency, i think he did this to have perfect control over the impedance to perfectly match and transfer the max force possible to the electric field.


I'm very happy that we are having this discussion my friends. And i can assure all you that very soon all of us will have many reasons to party. We are going to work together in a new economy based on water. I consider all you the most important people in the world so i want you to work with me for a better world.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 19:21:06 pm »
Sebo,

I became a believer today.  Here's what I did.  I got Tony & Steve's latest resonance scope shot from their discussion on my screen at around 3980hz using 90% duty going though a 2.36Henry each 4" bifilar wound with 22awg iron powder toroid about thumb width.  This was connected to two 3/4" stainless 403 strips 5 inches tall from K & Y from the local hardware and gapped at 1/2MM, glued with goop and enameled on the outside.  A silver coated solid telfon 18 awg lead wire was silver soldered to each strip. 

I use a variac memo 420 like setup with an irfbc40 mosfet and DSEP12-12B diode and pure 11ppm TDS reverse osmosis water in a graduated cylinder.

Strange gurgling from the coil announces the start of the phenomenon with adjustments to frequency, voltage, and pulse width made. 

give it a try, perhaps the inductor has to be huge compared to the cell for this to work

 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 22:02:22 pm »
Hi Kickbackemf,


Very cool! Thanks for the info. Did you noticed gas production? What were the voltage across the water? I'm finishing my new setup of the vic i'm going to have it all finished maybe tomorrow or sunday. I'm finishing the variable coil right now.


Thanks again.




Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Re: Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 00:18:58 am »
Sebo,

Gas starts at 15v and goes good at around 30v but then milliamps start creeping in.  You can crank voltage up and use amps it seems.  This phenomenon is all new for me so I'll have to triple check everything yet. 

 The strips are 1" wide not 3/4".  Voltage with ungrounded probe is 1460v at cell+. ????  The jump and blossoming of the waveform when resonance is reached is quite dramatic.  I'll be trying short trains of pulses next I suppose.

kb, 

ps, throw one together for yourself