Author Topic: VIC Discusion  (Read 13917 times)

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2010, 05:47:18 am »
I think you mis interpret my post. In his "lecture" movies Stan is talking to (who ever is the class) they talk about needing to increase the voltage on the "water cap", the class responds with increasing the input voltage, to which Stan replies, "or increasing the amount of coils here" to which he adds "coils" to the top inductor (between the diode and the cap). Now what I was pointing out was that if this was just an inductor (regardless of how it is wound) adding coils will not increase the output voltage. This only happens with secondaries on transformers. What I am pointing out is if the "inductors" are actually 2 secondaries in paraelle to each other but in series to the main secondary. Nothing overly new to observe. But this changes the calculation for resonance. I am yet to change the calculation but it will have more to do with the interaction between the inductance of the "inductors" vs the colapse time of their magnetic field vs the charge and colapse time of the secondary vs the capacitance (which changes dependant on gas in the cell).
 
Now all that is one hell of a calculation, also it means that transformers and cells will need to be specifically built as transformers have a range of frequency that they work in, so you will need to know how much capacitance vs inductance you require to build the frequency to operate in. To all of you thinking this sounds easy enough, manipulating the operable frequency ranges of transformers also changes the inductance of the primary and seconary(ies).
 
 
Now to you comment about the diode acting as a pump. I am yet to test this but when put in series with caps diodes also maintain voltage, so by placing the diode in between the inductor and secondary the inductor has the voltage of the cap still present accross it. What happens to the secondary of a transformer when there is a voltage across its winding and you saturate the core with a field? does the voltage increase in proportion? Then when the field colapses and the charge tries to stablize how does this effect the primary? i think there is a lot to the diode, more than making a charge pump out of a resonant tank circuit.
 
Also in tune with this idea, in a lot of Stans drawings he shows that he is recifying the AC and simply using one side of the recifacation. Could you build a reverse circuit? to use the negative side? technically doubling his output from the same work? BUT one step at a time, i am currently trying to source a soft iron square, or even a torid but it is proving difficult where i am.
 
As per normal please feel free to disect and tell me where i am wrong, be sure to include the reason also :)

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 09:44:44 am »
I think you mis interpret my post. In his "lecture" movies Stan is talking to (who ever is the class) they talk about needing to increase the voltage on the "water cap", the class responds with increasing the input voltage, to which Stan replies, "or increasing the amount of coils here" to which he adds "coils" to the top inductor (between the diode and the cap). Now what I was pointing out was that if this was just an inductor (regardless of how it is wound) adding coils will not increase the output voltage. This only happens with secondaries on transformers. What I am pointing out is if the "inductors" are actually 2 secondaries in paraelle to each other but in series to the main secondary. Nothing overly new to observe. But this changes the calculation for resonance. I am yet to change the calculation but it will have more to do with the interaction between the inductance of the "inductors" vs the colapse time of their magnetic field vs the charge and colapse time of the secondary vs the capacitance (which changes dependant on gas in the cell).
 
Now all that is one hell of a calculation, also it means that transformers and cells will need to be specifically built as transformers have a range of frequency that they work in, so you will need to know how much capacitance vs inductance you require to build the frequency to operate in. To all of you thinking this sounds easy enough, manipulating the operable frequency ranges of transformers also changes the inductance of the primary and seconary(ies).
 
 
Now to you comment about the diode acting as a pump. I am yet to test this but when put in series with caps diodes also maintain voltage, so by placing the diode in between the inductor and secondary the inductor has the voltage of the cap still present accross it. What happens to the secondary of a transformer when there is a voltage across its winding and you saturate the core with a field? does the voltage increase in proportion? Then when the field colapses and the charge tries to stablize how does this effect the primary? i think there is a lot to the diode, more than making a charge pump out of a resonant tank circuit.
 
Also in tune with this idea, in a lot of Stans drawings he shows that he is recifying the AC and simply using one side of the recifacation. Could you build a reverse circuit? to use the negative side? technically doubling his output from the same work? BUT one step at a time, i am currently trying to source a soft iron square, or even a torid but it is proving difficult where i am.
 
As per normal please feel free to disect and tell me where i am wrong, be sure to include the reason also :)

CrazyEwok, I see you are making a valid point.

Ok yes you can have a higher a voltage thru the step up transformer.  Another way was to add more coils in series.  This is stated as Stan pointed out is you can add more coils to get higher voltages.  Why does he make the mention of coils?? The key word here is more coils not windings.

Windings on a single coil inductor just raises the inductance. The reason he said coils is because he also wanted to add more capacitance between each coil. This creates a multiple capacitors inside the multiple multilayered coil. Just like the  fig. 6-1 VIC coil assembly. If you look closely why does he not just use the inductor symbol on his drawing but instead he uses the coil symbol.   Sure more coils does add more inductance.  In electronics multiple inductors in series add up to a total inductor. What is more important is the capacitance created thru the addition of each coil.  A coil beside another coil separated by a material creates a capacitor. The real nature of any inductor has a capactiance effect.  A good example is called parasitic capacitance. Parasitic capacitance is capacitance that happens when each winding has different voltage potential separated by a dielectric coating from each turn of the winding. 

After looking at the Tech brief when he says inducatance/capactiance. He was not talking about parasitic capacitance. A regular inductor can have a resonant frequency because of the parasitic capacitance is in parallel to the inductors inductance. In conclusion when  he said add more coils he adds more inductance while adding more capacitors created by the coils.

Ok so enough said about that. Now what is going to happen starting at the input of the transformer. The input transformer will do a step transformer. The reason for the diode is to let current flow thru (the coils and the capacitors creates by coils) in series with the WFC. When the pulse is terminated the resonant choke will resonant with itself with the capacitor. The voltage and current can go anywhere is want to other than back across the diode. The resonant charging choke does what Stan was trying to say... ;) With this the voltage can charge across the water to reach to the point the water will separate. In addition of the time off for the first inductor the second inductor which is magnetically couple creates a second pulse to be utilized for the continuation of the increase of voltage.

The reason for  the use of this type of multiple coil setup is a diode in series with a inductor in series the WFC will only just charge the capacitor. The ionization simulation circuit will show this. By thinking outside of the box the resonance can not happen  with the transformer because the diode prevents this.

I see sebofasto is thinking along this terms. Nice work!

                                               

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2010, 13:14:34 pm »
AncientMist


I'm sure that meyer would not make it that easy, in the New Zealand video he actually say that the diagram is only explicative and he would never tell anyone the secret of his patents. What i did is to examine him and other inventors and where they tried to hide their technology, what i found was that there were many similarities. I no longer sure if meyer puts 40kv on water, if he do so he do it creating more electrical energy on the resonance otherwise is kind of impossible to have 40kv across a water gap ..  If you have an electrical over unity device than you can destroy the water, run a car, do whatever you want. Meyer showed the water and insisted on it for two reasons, one to hide part of the secret, other to hide the other part of the circuit. Or to keep everyone far from his ideas.


In the end, he had two coils one being adjustable, he showed formulas for air core calculation, capacitance, frequency, mass acceleration, reactance, energy of inductor... He was describing a resonant tank that was tuned into another. If you notice the sync pulse drawing he show a capacitor having a 0v in the middle. I see this as two capacitors coupled. (well i mean being a combined capacitor not simply coupled)


Maybe we could interact on the capacitor with electromagnetic fields also, well i'm not so sure of this.


What is important is to don't get worry if you interpret the meyer work and replicate with a science background. As long as you know what are you doing and calculating everything, is far better than just try to copy things without completely understand.


I started the wrong way spending much money and time constructing vic coils and destructing after cause didn't work, burning oscilloscopes, multimeters, exploding transistors, capacitors, batteries, burning coils, ic's etc. After all i think that if i didn't make this first step, today i would not have the knowledge i have now. So i'm glad i could do this in the past. Today i don't work anymore so no funds for tests over tests however i think that this is the way thinking more than testing sometimes worth the price.





@ crazyewok


about the pump action, try for your self you just need a sig gnerator a multimeter and a transformer with primary and two secondaries or inductors and of course a diode and a real capacitor...


you connect the primary to the sig generator, than you find the configuration of the secondary that create the biggest voltage in the capacitor, there are two options only, found that you just add a diode in the middle between the secondaries, if voltage is the same, revert the diode. I'm not sure if this effect work only if the primary is driven by unipolar pulse (having only one mosfet) but i guess work anyway there is no apparent reason it wouldn't work actually.


I used this to drive resonant tank in parallel as this partly isolate the secondary from the resonant tank. You can see this on my youtube channel on the power device. 



 

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2010, 00:14:16 am »
@ sebosfato

I am sorry to here of the wasted efforts on time money for the cause of Stanley Meyer or any other related projects.  :( I have had similar events as well on other projects when learning something.

Sure Stan Meyer may have put some things that are not clearly seen but feel it is already there and he give it to you plain as day in the Tech Brief, patents, and videos. This is true when I had no idea about electronics and physics, but the more I learned the more he is telling the truth. From what I tell he described it, it was common knowledge for him.

A good example would be a teacher when they teach something. I do not know if this is going to make sense, but I have had teachers know what they were talking but lacked the communication teaching methods to get it across. It was harder to understand. Stan Meyer was getting the point across but was missing things that were common knowledge for him which for us it is the fine details. This is how I take it but I am open to anything.

The reason for my anylisis for the multiple mutlilayered coil is a couple of reasons.
1. He said that while working with radar he discovered this process. The Pulse Forming Network is used in the radar field.
2. He uses the phrase inductance/capacitance. Inductance is easy to understand but the capacitance is a capacitor form thru between the coils.
3. He shows that there are multiple coils are used instead of one inductor in the fig 6-1 VIC.
4. He uses the coil symbol instead of an inductor symbol.
5. Also the drawings in fig 8xA he shows individual coils with coupling inductance.

What am thinking of is instead of using a single inductor it should be used by a multiple mutlilayered coil. Now as far as the interaction of the transformer goes. This would be a concern with the VIC 6-1. I am just looking at the interaction between the resonant charging choke and the WFC. The reason why the transformer has no magnetic reaction in the fig 8xA.

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2010, 00:26:43 am »
Ok I am just throwing this out there but lets look at the words resonant charging choke. I believe Stan Meyer gave this its name for the reason I am about to discuss. If Stan did use a multiple Multilayered coils side by side with dielectric material such a delrin. then the following would be true.

Resonant - when the diode blocks the current from flowing the other direction the Stans special coil that i described can store energy thru its made capacitance and inductance. This could be resonated with certain frequency. This hold true since any inductors due have a self resonant frequency.

Charging - when input voltage is applied the coils self made capacitance and inductance stores energy.

Choke - any inductor is an choke that restricts amps by slowing the process of current fluctuations. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 01:14:48 am by AncientMist »

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2010, 01:21:02 am »
Yes, I think that too. Stan was very intelligent and was for sure a physicist or electronic, so he speak with much easy about the subjects and make everyone feel like understood, but as long as you learn more and more you start to see where he is trying to fool you and or mislead. In radar they uses resonance and they use a particular core made of magnetostrictive material witch is very expensive thought, Donald L smith talk about this. 


I think is very simple, as i'm saying two different resonant tanks combined.


When he speak of coherence he talks about capacitance, inductance, resistance coefficients. 


"VIC Coil Assembly (580) of Figure (6-1) as to (690) of Figure (7-8) in reference to Schematic Circuit (620) of Figure (7-1) is constructed in such a way as to rotate and position Inductor Coils (26 - 52 - 56 - 62) to be of the same electromagnetic polarity orientation, indicator mark (e) ... thus, allowing Inductance Fields (FL1 - FL2 - FL3 - FL4) to be aiding one another during the same sequence of pulse-time (T1) ... thereby, allowing Inductance Charging Effect (660) of Figure (7-5) and Resonant Voltage Effect (670) of Figure (7-6) to interact with the dielectric properties of water (Re) to cause and inhibit electron flow (IF) since "electrons" magnetic
Stanley A. Meyer   7-13RE: VIC Matrix Circuit   Memo WFC 426
field (547) of Figure (5-9) locks onto the electromagnetic fields of each energized choke coils (FL1/FL2) during Voltage Excitation (Vo -Vn) which, now, brings on and allows "Electron Bounce Phenomenon" (700) of Figure (7-9) to take place. (See Appendix B Note 1)
Electron Bounce Phenomenon
High Voltage Potential of Difference (VO - Vn) (SS' - 617 -RR') is accomplished when magnetic flux lines of force (71a xx 71) (Rp) emanating away from closed-loop magnetic pulsing core (53) of Figure (190) penetrates Inductance coil-windings (52 - 56 - 62) simultaneously during each and every pulse on-time (Tla xxx T1n) as programmable pulse-train (49a xxx 49n T3 - 49a xxx 49n) is adjusted to "Tune - in" to the dielectric property of Water (Re) .... causing mutual inductance (?1) (see equations Eq 28 thru Eq 30) to transform Distributed Capacitance (Cda xxx Cdn) of Figure (7-3) of each inductance coils (52 - 56 - 62) into a coherent Voltage Potential (Yo •..• Vn) equaling the sum of Voltage Potential (Vp) developed across each Pickup Coils (VpT + Vpl + Vp2) ..• producing Dynamic Voltage Potential (600) of Figure (6-3) during repetitive pulsing (49a xxx 49n - T3 - 49a xxx 49n) ... setting up and performing pulsating Opposite Electrical Attraction Fore (SS' ~617 ~ RR' - T3 - SS' ~ 617 - RR') of Figure (7-4) as to Voltage
Dynamics (220) of Figure (3-29) ... triggering Hydrogen Fracturing Process (90) of Figure (5~5) as to (100) of Figure (4-8) ... instantly releasing thermal explosive energy (gtnt) (16) from Water (85) on demand, as illustrated in Taper Resonant Cavity (590) of Figure (6-2) as to (70) of Figure (4-5). The resultant Dynamic Voltage Potential of Difference (opposite electrical attraction force) (SS' - 617 •... RR') is in balance phase of equal electrical intensity (66 = 67) of opposite polarity (positive electrical voltage potential _66 equals negative electrical Voltage potential 66 since the voltage Coefficient of Inductance (FL1/FL2), Voltage Coefficient of Capacitance (Cd1/Cd2), and voltage Coefficient of Resistance (Rs1/Rs2) across choke coils (L1/L2) are the same values ... allowing, Voltage Bounce Phenomenon (700) of Figure (7-9) to be preformed.


I think that when he talk about universal energy he talks about space time resonance, and thermal energy sometimes he talk about the energy present in ambient air.

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2010, 01:44:20 am »
Inductor is said to restricts the amps cause it creates an imaginary resistance, for example, if you short a capacitor it will start to oscillate instead of discharging all in once, this is because it will create a imaginary resistance while it accumulate all the energy in its magnetic fields, after the capacitor is completely empty, as the inductor being like inertia added to the current, thus will want to keep let it keep flowing so the capacitor gets charged with reverse voltage, and this is electrical resonance. A capacitor would have a negative resistance associated so when you connect a capacitor to another similar capacitor +- half of the charge immediately go to the other capacitor however as capacitor have a negative resistance to a difference of potential it becomes a critically dumped oscillation witch readily finish so half the energy is destroyed in the vacuum.


I made an analogy to the vacuum brake i thought off, having a piston inside a cylinder witch suffer the action being pushed down having no inlet port open, so it become a vacuum brake, however if you think what is happening, you will ask your self, if you create a vacuum or drop the pressure, you will get a reduction in the temperature, so where is the energy going to? 
The idea of this brake is, that in the end of the vacuum cycle, the air valve open letting the air to get in rapidly, to than also use the compression cycle to brake while accumulating energy as pressure.


The same happens in the capacitor in my opinion.


So if we can put energy into the space time, we can use the space time to bring energy into our dimension. Thats why i want to study physics, to learn the Max equations, and general relativity to be able to calculate this things.


There is something called spin connection resonance, SCR, where space time and electromagnetism meet, actually electromagnetism is a consequence of space time.

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2010, 04:47:49 am »
So if we can put energy into the space time, we can use the space time to bring energy into our dimension. Thats why i want to study physics, to learn the Max equations, and general relativity to be able to calculate this things.


There is something called spin connection resonance, SCR, where space time and electromagnetism meet, actually electromagnetism is a consequence of space time.

Hey sebosfato. I see you are having some interesting ideas related for energy extraction. I would like you, me, and anyone else to do the same. But discuss it on a different topic. Reason being is I want to keep this topic related to the build, interaction, and properties of the VIC circuit.

I just started this topic of interest for anyone who would like to voice their ideas on how Stan Meyers used the water as a fuel source that is related to the concept of what Stan called universal energy.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=post;board=1.0



Inductor is said to restricts the amps cause it creates an imaginary resistance, for example, if you short a capacitor it will start to oscillate instead of discharging all in once, this is because it will create a imaginary resistance while it accumulate all the energy in its magnetic fields, after the capacitor is completely empty, as the inductor being like inertia added to the current, thus will want to keep let it keep flowing so the capacitor gets charged with reverse voltage, and this is electrical resonance. A capacitor would have a negative resistance associated so when you connect a capacitor to another similar capacitor +- half of the charge immediately go to the other capacitor however as capacitor have a negative resistance to a difference of potential it becomes a critically dumped oscillation witch readily finish so half the energy is destroyed in the vacuum.

In this analogy are you talking about just a regular capacitor or a coil made capacitor? Like the one I describe have two coils separated by a dielectric material.