Author Topic: VIC Discusion  (Read 13918 times)

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Energy conserved
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2010, 18:38:19 pm »

Arithmetic progression is the sequence of numbers that can be created adding always the same number to the last sequentially.
ex: 2 +3 =(5)  +3=( 8)  +3=(11)  + 3=14      2 5 8 11 14 so the increasing factor is 3 here.

What i mean by Exponential is that when you have a certain number of watts for example, 100 watts, than this creates some hydrogen and oxygen from water, water expand and you have a generator that can convert this energy into electricity at 90% efficiency, and you than apply this energy to generate more has than you would have:




100w original + 90% of 100W than + 90% 0f 90W than 90% of 90% of 90W....




Now by geometric i mean


100W original + ((90% of 100w)+90% of 90%of100w) + (...


So the heat feeding back into the pressure feedback.


We all know that heat expands gases. 


So you apply one energy and ends up with ex: 90% of the original transformed and used to generate it self. You just create a cycle where energy is conserved, energy still exist over time don't matter we have spent before, energy is not consumed created or destroyed is transformed. We usually transform the electrical energy in heat energy. What i'm saying is that interacting with water you can recycle the energy so you start to have a Q factor over witch you will apply energy make the thing work to you during one transformation of state, than use part of the energy back. So you apply 1 energy and than you have in a second moment the applied energy + the energy regenerated+ the energy regenerated from the energy regenerated and so on. So is a classic example of resonance! Like i called in the past, a resonant system.
Again
 The fact is that we can transform electricity (water electrolyser) into free pressure + heat (combustion chamber) and than can use the pressure (expanded gas from electrolyser) + heat (from the combustion chamber) to generate electricity (by using the heat to expand further the expanded gas from electrolyser witch by pressure drives an electricity generator) that is directed to share the load (water electrolyser) with the initial supply.


I'm explaining in many ways, cause is not so simple concept for everyone.     


I'm not saying its perpetual motion, but if you cycle the energy to any certain amount you would create over unity effects.


Physicists like saying that energy is conserved. Ok so lets just put into resonance and keep using it forever transforming from one form to another cyclicly.




Nice thought i just had.


Vacuum Compression cycle Brake


Imagine a breaking system that uses a piston in a cylinder to break a car for example. You can think about using the piston to fill a tank with compressed air during the operation. But how about instead of letting the air to get into the piston during the intake, to let build up a vacuum, and than open the air valve in the end of the intake cycle to let the air get in and than go to the compression cycle.


I just imagined that the vacuum will create a freezing temperature during its cycle, while you are breaking. So where is the energy going to? The brake will work cool while filling a tank with compressed air. What about this?


The only way to understand is to ask questions...


I think thats what started puzzling maxwell and tesla concerning the vacuum not per se but when created.




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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2010, 03:17:48 am »
So after getting down and understanding the voltage pulse increase. How is this accomplished? In the charging of the capacitor the diode prevents the blocking of current in the opposite direction. The only thing I can think of is that made sense is a charging of a capacitor with short   pulses. These short pulses would look like rectified DC. The rectified pulsed DC charges the capacitor.  Along the way the voltage will be high enough for dielectric breakdown. 
 
The question is  in the patent 4936961 how is it achieved only the uses the a step up of 3 to 1 and a input of 26 volts which result of 78 volts ouput? How does the capacitor increase to 1000 volts. What I seen on the Tesla DC Circuit the voltage can by multiplied by a factor of two. So if 78 volts x 2 = 156 volts.  So 156 volts is the maximum voltage across the capacitor inline with the inductor.

The Telsa DC resonant charging circuit is here. http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html

Any suggestions??  How can Stan get the voltage up over 1000 volts with such little input voltage that built over time? 

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2010, 07:08:53 am »
HEllo,


The vic as its described, works like a charge pump, if you take a capacitor and turn it on you will reach 1000 volts or more, because the output voltage will not follow the rule Ns/Np turns relation. The diode allow the charge to be pumped with the referential of the charged capacitor so voltage continue to build up. 


If you construct a vic you will see it by yourself.


If it is powerful enough you will make distilled water get up to high voltage, however if its not that powerful only capacitors will let the voltage to grow up-


For example think, a distilled water having 3kohm of resistance, if you apply one amp you will get 3000 volts. However for this you would need 3000 watts and to pump that into the circuit for real.


So if you are coming from 12 v you would need 250 amps, if 220v only 13 amps


So what i'm saying is that if we have a higher voltage on the primary it becomes easier to make the thing happen. With higher frequency transformer can be very small and need less turns.   


We just need to create a good circuit for pulsing the 220 voltage. I tried but everything explodes here... A variac would be handy..


I hope this help you understand.


For example you have a primary having 200 turns of 18awg wire, and a secondary maybe 22 wire, having 200 turns and a diode and the two chokes having maybe 100 turns each being part of the same transformer.


Now come the interesting part, if you made it flyback, the voltage will depend on the duty cycle of the pulse, because the time of the discharge is forced to collapse so voltage bursts can be in the 9kv peak if you create a peak of 3 amps... I mean if you make it pulsed and not dc you can concentrate the pulse to create a higher voltage. So lets say you adjust the duty to have 10 amps at 90% duty cycle, if you discharge it in 10% you will have 9 times greater voltage. Concentrating the pulse. Depends also on the impedance of the load the speed in witch the inductor can discharge all in once. The greater the impedance the fastest it is and the higher the voltage peak.   


So we need to design a pulsing circuit that handle 220v input at least 20 amps and capable up to 50khz.


To range the frequencies, different transformers must be made, to find the right configuration. Toroidal transformers work good, you just need to have a big one that can handle this magnetic flux without saturating. An E core with high frequency laminates would be good for a 10khz frequency.


We need stay together to get there.


We should partner up, i don't believe separated independent researchers can do everything alone. 



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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2010, 07:59:42 am »
Maybe 12awg would be better for the primary, having 18 awg for the secondary and chokes...   

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2010, 13:22:45 pm »
The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
 
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2010, 16:40:53 pm »
The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
 
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.


Hi Crazyewok


I made much experimentation in last years on the vic connecting it in the most varied ways, and what i found is that when you add the diode in series it will become a pump like it will only conduct during the period the transformer pulse is of so you can charge up the core to the limit and than discharge it all in once concentrating the pulse to get a high voltage by flyback action, but is not only this, it also by the effect of teh charging chokes will behave like a high impedance output voltage source, or at least self adjusting output voltage source, in the sense that i had a vic with the turns recomended by meyer and i was getting instead of 36v i was getting 2000 using capacitors instead of the water, so i understand it as a charge pump, it takes the referential of the charge capacitor maybe in the capacitance side of the diode and keeps charging. If you apply enough energy you can make the voltages go where you want, just need to scale up.




The doubling effect occur not only on the transformer. Think of this, you have a vic transformer driving a load having 1 amp flowing at 1000v thru a set of bifilar coils, if you are applying half wave the diode will block the reversed field to be applied to the coils, however the 1 amp flowing on the coil want to keep moving but as you closed the door it will take your secondary as a reference and push the rest of the amps on the water. I proposed a design witch i have tried here that for one time made the pulses i was expecting, it was transforming the pulses into a full wave like... It consisted of a bifilar coil made with speaker wire about 20m or wire over iron cores, having 2 diodes one in series with the first coil and other coming from the same side where the other is connected but going to the top of the other coil where it goes for the positive electrode. Doing this the collapsed field of the series inductor became another pulse. The inductor opposes changes in the direction of the current, so if you start to make the current to move it will have like an inertia mass added to it, so when you finish the pulse it still want to keep moving. However if you than make it open circuit the field will collapse very fast. So the more the load is a short circuit the more slow will be the discharging of the inductor.


However as i have only a pc scope i'm not able to actually tell you with much sure, also because diodes got burn and i never got that effect again as i stopped experimenting with tap water, well i would need to work more on it.


There is much on this.
 

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2010, 20:12:30 pm »
The VIC is a tuned tank circuit. The posibility of using the same core for a multiple stage step up transformer (thing of it kind of like a marx generator charge in parrelle discharge in series) This is part that intregues me. A tank circuit when tuned to circuit resonance can push the voltage to a mathmatical infinite. This means it will push it up to the point of dielectrical breakdown. Now his statements about the VIC slowly fall into place for everyone. There were a few that i didn't understand till rescently.
1. he talks about the two "inductors" increasing in base voltage by adding more turns, now with an inductor more turn means more henries not more voltage, on a step up transformer more turns means more voltage.
2. His frequency doubling effect only happens if all the coils share the same core and the right frequency is used. This is because you will get the pulse from the "inductors" and then the pulse from the secondary all of which having the voltage doubling effect that inductors have.
3. His use of the 1kv diode. This wouldn't do much to the extent he is talking about except for the protection of the "inductors"
 
There is one point i think should be though out before mimicing his idea. BEMF. There will be a fair whack on it, most absorbed in the inductors and secondary but somethign to think about.

Yes the more turns on the inductors would not increase more voltage and also more turns on the transformer for for increased volts...

So I think I have the solution to create more voltage.  heheheh

Ok so someone this site someone was referencing the PFN which is a Pulse Forming Network. It use is to step up the voltage on the relationship of the coil with capacitors. Now if the coils between other coils were side by side  they would create capacitance with each other. This is clearly demonstrated on the parasitic capacitance of the dielectric coating on the wire side by side of the wire.  We are not looking at the parasitic capacitance but a capacitance between the multilayered coils. The coils beside each other created capacitance between each other. Now lets think is this what Stan did with the VIC Circuit. Yes!!! This was on the secondary as well on the chokes. Also I just watch the New Zealand video and he say more turns create more voltage. This is not the more turns on a regular one coil inductor but was he saying add more coils side by side each other to create a capacitance effect.  :)

Why does he use the phrase inductance/capacitance??? Look at the beginning concepts he demonstrated with figure 8XA.
Actually if you hear him an go back to the Tech brief he show a parallel capacitance. In many of the VIC drawing he show the symbol of a coil instead of the symbol of the inductor. The Coils are a representation of each multilayered inductor.

So in conclusion on will have to just make a multilayered choke. This would result in a step charging affect in the WFC by the means of discharging of each capacitor between each coil. With the step charging effect the voltage will reach to the point of dielectric breakdown of the water molecule. Like Stan said he was dialing into the natural properties of water meaning dielectric breakdown..

Really wish I had the material to build this. So if anyone wants to use their same setup but make the choke a multilayer coil by using the capacitance effect.

The picture of the coil for the Figure 8XA shows the individual coils. How do I know well, look at the coupling
inductance between each coil.


                                                                                               
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 20:32:11 pm by AncientMist »

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Re: VIC Discusion
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 20:35:36 pm »
Has anyone seen the choke for Figure 8XA??? Can this be a Multilayered Coil... The International report has a pic but I can not tell.