Author Topic: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!  (Read 16677 times)

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2010, 11:00:39 am »
Bubz,

Resonant action. Where to look for is the right question.
With coils and caps, we are looking for a high Q-factor.
Meaning that when you hit the parallel or serie LC circuit, you will have energy bouncing back and forwards till the resistance and current leaking is consuming the power.

In a perfect setup, you will pulse the circuit once and you will see the power bouncing couple of seconds afterwards....

Stan said in one of his resonant quotes that he pulsed the cell and the gasproduction was continuing after the puls for a period.

If you look at his setup with use of coils, there is only one idea coming up on how it might work in my point of view. Its related to Dan Danfort's theory and schematics as well. He had talked to Stan in person.

The theory is that you hit the watercell with a dc puls, till current starts to flow.
Sofar its plain electrolysis.
When the current is flowing, all watermols are getting allignent.
The path for HV is now created.
So, when the LV/current pulse is gone, the coils bemf hits back into the watercell and takes the just made aligned molecule path.
The HV peak of the bemf must be higher then 1500V before the mols start ringing, according to Dan's theory.

The one doesn't work with the other. Only HV is not working. Only LV and current is plain electrolysis. But but should show some wonders.

Steve












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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2010, 16:00:43 pm »
to oscillate orbital electrons you must be able to send the electron in the direction of pos plate and back toward the neg plate... this would be done i think with a balanced swinging of voltage..
during pulse on time electrons get pulled toward the pos.. during off time the pull power is being lessen from pos and the negative is being lessen as well.. them both swinging back towards 0 will allow that tension the atom has from the electrical force to generate its swing the opposite direction...  since when voltage rises and neg push electron and positive pull electron they both work together and alter electrons in that direction.. when bemf off time the negative and postive are shooting back to 0 they will spring back the opposite direction...

while this is happening your pos choke is taking on excess difference (charing) which is appearing as 0 since the negative is matching the opposite due to the magnetic coupling ...  so when pulsing stops it relies on the orbital electrons in water to continue to drive the circuit to discharge not the differences themselves since they are coupling on a core and really dont mind there displacment for the most part???

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2010, 16:21:44 pm »
i image that the back emf is effecting the secondary and negative electrically and as they swing in the opposite direction the positive choke having a charge resists negative choke back emf to go positive.. if it pos choke holds positive potential and the negative chokes bemf is what would be a posotive result then the means the pos and neg choke would then repel each other... that repelling force would cushion bemf i think..

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2010, 16:54:37 pm »
I was talking with komtek and realized I was kind of going on a rant. I think it would be best if I stuck to a specific area in efforts to keep the confusion at a minimal. I think I may have an idea for an easy and cheap test that may shed more light on the subject.

Let's take a closer look at a WFC injector. It's design is basic and similar to other inventions in that it is tubular. Some of you may be familiar with some experiments on other forums with spark plugs and water. If I remember correctly, this train of thought was started by a video posted by s1r9a9m9 along with a story that had been circulating the net. Well, the idea was a good one, but I didn't keep an eye on the progress long enough to see if any one would ever figure out the electrodes of the spark plug was not the best idea. To look at a WFC injector in a new way, it is basically an air ionizer in a tube form. instead of the plate being out in the open air, we are isolating the device and only putting through our special blend. Water, exhaust, and ionized air. You shouldn't have to make an injector to get the same results in a way to see the process work. We just have to be creative. We have a few options with electrode design and we have some options for the driver circuitry... What ideas do you guys have?

oops I forgot the blend also has the ionized HHO... that would sort of make a big difference.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 18:09:21 pm by Bubz »

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2010, 18:12:00 pm »
Sorry for any leading along.
As I was still interested in the basic ionizer setup and maybe all the related data has not yet been set forth.

Yes the ionzer spreads all-over into the various parts.
Somehow I thought resonant and resonance of the WFC were off topic and stirred alot of interest but at the same time several answers still did not show tell explain exactly the point.
Bubz was doing a pretty good job and Steve has input some reference here.

WFC resonance is very touchy to acheive, and its a huge subject and needs massive experimentation. Still over the years I have not seen the real magic maybe its a fairy tale but the few people have acheived this magic and to input the information and details in our minds of that moment and working at it and not seeing the result is sort of depressing, never giving up sucks up your time and costs money. I can just imagine how many coils we have all built to find the result. I have a box getting full of them, actually a few small box's and that includes lathed and milled bobbins.
The time-constant between the plates, the first pulsing charge making its alignment, step charging through the coil. When all details are figured properly the current lowers and the voltage rises. Q factor is the efficiency. The efficiency is when the current wave form is in line with the voltage wave form and can be acheived by frequency change and is to due with inductive and capacitive values, where it all match's.
You look at it and see a dualism, but its really one circuit properly made and tuned.
No one has found it and published the details other than the you know who's. We are struggling here big time.

To tie all of it together it's the magic would like to have.
Do you know how many days nights and how much time I've spent its near depressing.
Thats why I'm after other details and areas and need to give this part a rest.
We can read books patents details all night and day and talk about it for years but in the plain overview no-one has put their finger on this.
Yeh you can explain it but you can't make it.
Don't tell me thats not depressing in some sort of way.

Looks like Bubz wants to talk about the WFC injector, sounds good to me.

Personally I think the injector should not do the mixing of the air-exhaust-water.
This should be done at a small manifold with adjustment capabilty maybe in the form of a needle and seat to be able to adjust each level of the 3 various gas supplies. Also its very simple to install a small window and small laser source.
When you get to this point who will analyze and balance the 3 supply gasses?
It appears a ionizer is setup right after the mixing of the supply gasses. And that could have details also, just like ionizers we were talking about but a different body and electrode design.

Let me throw out something thats bothering me about this.
What drives the gases into this mixing manifold, they need a pump to create pressure. What pumps are available? What drives the pump?
There are various methods.
Maybe we could all shed some light on the parts of this circuit.
Sounds like its getting harder, maybe there's a vacuum method or something that is much more simpler and easier?

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2010, 18:56:55 pm »
Komtek, I feel bad as you bring up the point of demonstrated evidence. I can see where this all looks as a charade of "I Know The Secret" crap that you see on the forums everyday. I  do not want to be known as such a person, but, I'd rather you make up your own minds and do what you think is right or pertinent. I will be showing working prototype stuff as I go along so this won't be a some bullshit story. My goal really is to point out how easy it is to understand all this. Nothing is mysteriously magic or a miracle. These words are only used when one does not care to ponder the secrets of the heavens. I guess it's just because that's the way God made it!

If you want a good place to start, get yourself any low powered cheap air ionizer, well, make that two of them. One positive, and one negative. We need to either build or buy an ion detector too. I have one I made that I modified to detect both in one box. I'll take a video of my stuff as soon as I have time. I would imagine a week or two tops? If you want to see how atomized water reacts to the ionizer's field, you can buy any cheap ultrasonic humidifier and point the mist through it. Maybe one of you have these items on hand and can make a video before I do? Or pictures would do. Komtek, you said you had an NST? That will come in handy. Maybe you can tell me more about it.

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2010, 19:36:43 pm »
Bubz yes there's stuff available in the ol garage to play with:
Large NST 15kv 30ma but this thing is too much weighs a good amount of poundage.
Small NST 6kv don't know the ma its still in a box somewhere here. Size easy to work with.
Spa ionizer that just needs clock timer disabled. Another easy to work with. Based on flyback circuit.
3 6-1's and one of those was designed and made to output an enormous voltage, 1 has blown choke wire due to arcing, 2 are usable.
Other home made transformers with HV possibility's, I thinks I may have center tapped one of those. 
2 microwave trans that have possibility's.
Stainless screen - stainless rods - etc.
Pond fogger ultrasonic device.
Poundages of various magnet wire and bobbins and cores.
Can wind any transformer easily.
Sorry about the list, but just to show the availability of some pieces needed.

With respect to others a determined mentality that fails to see the control aspect of building these devices.
There's the lack of electronic knowledge needed to control the various circuit and output potentials.
I kick myself for not putting this area together.

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Re: Air Ionizers Analogy - Strikingly Similar!
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2010, 21:02:19 pm »
I would like to point out that I do not own very much equipment, especially lab grade tools like scopes and high voltage measuring devices. When I make a device like a Tesla Coil or anything high voltage over 1Kv, I can only approximate it's parameters. Sure I can measure input to the device, but that's about it. Basically all I use is a multimeter, LCR meter, signal generator, and a light bulb or two. Oh, and the ion detector comes in handy once or twice.