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Projects by members => Projects by members => Kinesisfilms => Topic started by: kinesisfilms on April 14, 2009, 17:57:24 pm

Title: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 17:57:24 pm
variable voltage amplitude control.

it works perfectly!

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/the-setup.jpg)

the variable voltage amplitude control creates DC voltage anywhere from 0-140 volts dc and replaces the standard 12 volt battery and my function generator's limit of 5 volts amplitude.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:07:28 pm
it works perfectly!
it actually works? you are generating gas?
nice!
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:25:57 pm
no i ahve been taking a break today.....i blew through 3 mosfets trying to figure out how to make the voltage amplitude control thing......I MEAN THE VARIABLE VOLTAGE AMPLITUDE CONTROL WORKS PERFECTLY!...i get all the waveforms up until the cell becuase i have not yet connected it to a cell......BUT TODAY IS THE DAY!


hopefully hopefully hopefully.

i have to get everything else right before i jump into gas production.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:32:50 pm
good luck man, i hope the watercap won't destroy all your waveforms and high voltage like it normally does.

hope to read here later.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:37:18 pm
yeah that is why i had to increaes voltage amplitude.....becuase regardless of tubes or not the waters resistance ruins the waveform......this might be why a minimum amplitude of 13 volts is needed.....and with my scope probes connected it adds all the more resistance.

so here we go....going to set everything up.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:51:30 pm
damnit...ran out of alligator clips......

brb.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 18:57:47 pm
damnit...ran out of alligator clips......

brb.

Want some of me?

Steve
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 19:28:10 pm
i just got a bunch more......ok here is the thing.....i get a signal to finally go through!.....but i blew my mosfet!

so i need a very strong mosfet.

i will check today after class......and if not then i will order one off line.

but i can now get the signal to show up in the water!
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 19:49:22 pm
This question is probably more for Jolt, will the Jolt circuit do the job your frequency generator is doing?
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 20:01:38 pm
yes it will.

now that voltage amplitude can be controlled seperately jolt's circuit will work as the pulse driving circuit.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/variable.jpg)

the above is completed....you can see in the image i made of the diargram that it is doing just that......
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 20:23:42 pm
i just got a bunch more......ok here is the thing.....i get a signal to finally go through!.....but i blew my mosfet!

so i need a very strong mosfet.

i will check today after class......and if not then i will order one off line.

but i can now get the signal to show up in the water!

I am curious to know if you were able to do this with your last bifilar and toroid .

How is the input power compared to this one .
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2009, 21:39:45 pm
before i was just pulsing with power.......that is not how it's done......ever since i got a new function generator it had an amplitude option.......so i actually got to see the effects of amplitude.

i think this is the main reason why it never works for anyone who tries to pulse a square wave into there bifilar and just gets another square wave out......it is all about hte proportion between amplitude frequency and power......in a sense there are 2 resonance's one inside the coil to produce the double pulse train and one between the inductor and capacitor.

i would love to try again with my old bifilar (copper)....but i shorted it out at around 4 kv trying to get the double pulse.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 03:25:15 am
hmm....the higher and higher i raise the amplitude to battle the waters dampening effect my mosfet starts to hate the voltage.

i am basically using a mosfet as an optocoupler of sorts.

so there are around 3-5 different ways to pulse the circuit.....one can be with a 50 percent duty cycle pulse....another can be with a unipolar pulse.....but then the vic must be connected differently......regardless a unipolar pulse is sent into a capcitor to begin charging the capacitor which naturally happens in a step like effect (ie the angled waves)...there are no saw  waves pulsed into the primary......variable amplitude from 0-12 volts means that it is controlable for different gas output effects for speeding up and slowing down......becuase voltage amplitude and pulse width rate both directly effect gas production.


one of my mosfets has a voltage breakdown of 100volts.....and i blew that one.

hmm i will keep experimenting......john's coil works beautifully but hates water.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 03:37:49 am
i see optocouplers all over stans stuff.

and since this vic is for the injectors, it would be handling about 7.4 microliters of water per shot, so a 3" tube may just be too large to get the proper effect. I think john mentioned it was 28k times as large of capacitance ...

Just a finer detail to sort out in the big picture, keep going!
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 04:29:01 am
no this vic can also be used for the 3 inch tubes.....this vic is capable of 40,000 kv......it can be used for the gas processor the tubes the injectors......everything......there is no difference.....only how it is pulsed and at what amplitude.

read all of stans patents.....it is quite clear what the vic is capable of.

i just need to figure out this last part.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 05:03:42 am
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/interconnected-1.jpg)

hmm......what did stan use to combine the driving pulse and the voltage amplitude.....i have it hooked to the primary coil as in the diagram but i am using a mosfet in between and having the grounds go through that....

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/howdotheyconnect.jpg)

damnit....i can try a larger mosfet....but i would have to order it and wait for it.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 05:15:31 am
alright one last thing......patent WO 92/07861 has every circuit he used tell how they interlock.....and i think he was using some sort of fet because i see Vdd and Vss in the schematics.....

everyone needs to read that patent.....

http://encyclobeamia.solarbotics.net/articles/vxx.html (http://encyclobeamia.solarbotics.net/articles/vxx.html)

well from looking at his circuits it seems stan wasn't using a mosfet but a Bipolar junction transistor

i hope this is right i will keep looking into it.

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_1.html (http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_1.html)

i think this might be the way to couple and join the driver with the amplitude signals properly.

edit: hell yeah keyword ( "Attenuates" the signal )

so no mosfets but BJT!...look at the "The Common Base Amplifier Circuit" i think that is how it is to be connected to the primary coil.

now i just have to find the right specifications for this transistor.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 10:05:01 am
if your mosfet is blowing, why won't you use a recovery diode to protect it?
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 17:09:22 pm
Quote
hmm......what did stan use to combine the driving pulse and the voltage amplitude.....i have it hooked to the primary coil as in the diagram but i am using a mosfet in between and having the grounds go through that....


damnit....i can try a larger mosfet....but i would have to order it and wait for it.

if your primary coil impedance is small, no mosfet or IGBT can handle the load. To get around that use a half-bridge circuit. it is similar to the circuit used in induction hobs and furnaces.
Look it up.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 01:07:31 am
hey yaro i tried looking up the induction hob circuits with no luck.

also i got 2 BJTs and am goign to try some conection types.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 02:42:27 am
no luck......so i am going to go for a really large mosfet.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 04:43:23 am
Make sure you do not exceed the mosfet's power ratings.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 06:13:11 am
haha....of i have been exceeding the breakdown voltage with my current mosfets which are rated from 40-60 volts.....

i ordered 2 mosfets with breakdown voltages of 600 volts.....and continuous current drains of 15 amps.......hopefully this works.

becuase just as the signal starts to form inside the water capacitor my mosfet gives out.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 20:23:06 pm
well i got the mosfets and hooked them up.....the signal forms beyond what the other mosfets broke down at....but it never fully forms.....it just stops and i can't go beyond it and there are no bubbles at all....i can only increase the wattage used.....and still nothing.....this is the last step to replicating this......if we can just overcome how he was interconnecting the pulse driver signal with the variable voltage amplitude signal it will be completed......

would any of the electronic wizards like to explain to me or help me to understand what is going on in this circuit.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/hmmm.jpg)

i am coming to the point where i would rather just gate a variac rectified signal.....but once again more and more money.....if only my function generator could pump out a tad more power and actually be used as a power function generator.

this is what it comes down to.....the connections on the primary coil.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 21:27:01 pm
i'd say the switch is to choose the voltage amplitude for the transformers primary coil. the diode parallel to the primary coil to prevent harm from bemf. (if you want to know about the red circle only)
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 21:47:20 pm
notice how there are 2 diodes in that red box...oen of them completely contradicts the other........this means that it would pull the varaiable voltage amplitude power through the gated circuit.

in a sense i am pulling the gated signal through the power source aka i am doing it backwards.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 22:30:44 pm
You probable shorted out your coil with all that mad scientist power you gave .
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 22:46:58 pm
coil still works perfectly.

alright so since stan uses the reverse as to what i am doing i don't think there is any real difference.......

i have re-read the entire international patent again.

so i will attempt one more time for today.

this was on wiki and is basically what i am doing....notice the similarities to stan's in the above image post.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/Mosfetwikipedia.jpg)
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 23:43:24 pm
Never mind the pulsing , take the chokes out and take out diode .

Just compare the chokes symetry , show us this waveform on your scope plz .
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 23:54:28 pm
i have gotten those waveforms before.....not with johns coil though......those wave forms are incorrect.

johns chokes are even.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2009, 23:57:51 pm
i have gotten those waveforms before.....not with johns coil though......those wave forms are incorrect.

johns chokes are even.

O yeah ? incorrect

http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=870

Those waveforms are from 2curious4wfc and 100% correct and the cokes will react exactly the same , plz pay attention to the thread and learn fro 2curious4WFC , he is very very knowledgeable .

Got the pictures ? Show us a picture of those waveforms .

Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 00:55:12 am
yes incorrect.

stop being a follower.

and incase you forgot....

those wave forms are incorrect.

you need to become hands on dankie and stop all of your unintelligent rambles once and for all.

Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 01:04:37 am
yes incorrect.

stop being a follower.

and incase you forgot....

those wave forms are incorrect.

you need to become hands on dankie and stop all of your unintelligent rambles once and for all.



So these waveforms are incorrect yet you have had em once ?

How did you get those if they were incorrect , plz show us a picture and I'll be on my way .

Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 01:14:33 am
trial and error with different setups.

sorry but i have BEEN HANDS ON with so many different methods that it is difficult for me to re-create a specific waveform when i no longer have my original setup do to experimental limitations.

i don't want you to be on your way.

i want you to stop bringing poorly thought out attacks.

it honestly isn't even worth my time anymore to argue with child-like tendencies.

i have seen enough to know what is going on in the current stages of my attempts.

and the only reason i am responding to you right now is becuase you happen to catch me as i was writing another section.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 01:25:19 am
trial and error with different setups.

sorry but i have BEEN HANDS ON with so many different methods that it is difficult for me to re-create a specific waveform when i no longer have my original setup do to experimental limitations.

i don't want you to be on your way.

i want you to stop bringing poorly thought out attacks.

it honestly isn't even worth my time anymore to argue with child-like tendencies.

I have seen enough to know what is going on in the current stages of my attempts.
..

and the only reason i am responding to you right now is becuase you happen to catch me as i was writing another section.

What setup was that with , its either this of your other bifilar setup since thats your OU history really ...nothing complex really , lets not makes things more complicated than they need to be .

You say you have this waveform before so it must have been with a bifilar , this is a bifilar , same exact thing .

Now since you know how to get this waveform do it and test it out and post a picture... whats so complicated ?

You dont seem very hand-on to me lad , burning through mosfets like that ...
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 01:28:46 am
oh canada.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 01:30:19 am
alright so i have devised another attempt to overcome the amplitude resistance issue.

i will be using 2 mosfets.

i think i will have no alligator clips left to spare.
Title: Re: Variable Voltage Amplitude Control
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2009, 17:26:51 pm
that wire god damnit.