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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dynodon on March 25, 2011, 21:57:21 pm

Title: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 25, 2011, 21:57:21 pm
To help you all solve the question for the gating frequency,let me post another one to you.Everyone is looking at the PLL circuit now so I'll touch on it here.
 
Understanding this one will help you to figure out the gating funtion.
 
What is the primary purpose of the LC Resonance frequency?
 
I'll help with this one.We all know that the PLL circuit is for locking into LC resonance.There is two possible answers to this one but only the one is the key answer.Now everyone here should know this one,but you all need to know it for it's main purpose.
This one answer leads right into my Gating question.
 
I'll explain more when this question is answered.I'll simplify this answer to it's basic funtion.
 
Don
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 00:07:49 am
the gate pulse is used to promote the step-charging effect in the cell. it also can control the charge/discharge rate of the cell. There may also be a need to allow a definite relaxation time after each pulse, to increase the period in which the ionized charges may recombine and hydrogen and oxygen may be collected.
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 00:13:13 am
All of the bobbin cavities have to match in inductance with the primary coil’s inductance for the desired frequency the user is aiming for. This way makes sure that all coils hit resonance at the same time. Since the primary has the strongest magnetic field it leads the way for all other magnetic fields to add to its magnetic field strength.

So something like this, The gate frequency matches the resonance of the coils and the 2nd resonant frequency matches the resonance of the water. So the 2nd resonant frequency is inside the gated frequency.
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 00:50:38 am
Your missing the point of this question.What is Stan trying to do with LC resonance?What is he after with LC Resonance?
Don
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 00:53:51 am
Take voltage to its highest potential while restricting current.
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 01:54:23 am
Yes, thats what I was looking for.
 
High voltage!!!
 
OK we are making high voltage with an LC resonant circuit.Now look at it this way.Forget about how we got this voltage,by using a frequency driving circuit,and just look at it as high voltage.Why? Because thats all we need. The whole process of using an LC resonance circuit to create high voltage, is not needed for anything else.It is only meant to get us the voltage,nothing else.
 
So now what do we do with the high voltage only? Just think of it as voltage and nothing else,not even a pulsed voltage,just voltage.
 
We now use the gated frequency with this high voltage to do what?
 
Now take this info and go back to my other question,and think of a reason to use gating.
 
Don
 
 
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 02:16:19 am
"Also when you hit resonance and subject it to the stimulation of the pulse voltage and then switch it off then the hydrogen will continue to be produced on the power off put stage.. a example being that once you hit resonance you could excite it for 5 seconds and your produning gas for 94 seconds.. you divide 5 into 94 and you are producing hydrogen gas 19 times more one the power off stage then on the power input stage.." ~ Stanley Meyer Switzerland video


Hit resonance = phase locked LC resonance
Stimulation of the pulse voltage=  gated pulse freq
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 02:20:28 am
outlawstc,your getting closer,just follow through with your last line,better discription of how to do it.
Don
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 10:35:11 am
You create high voltage with the LC Resonance to get the wfc capacitor to reach the point of dielectric breakdown. That makes the current spike which will disassociate the water into HHO. After that you need to give the wfc capacitor the time to reestablish the dielectric because if you don't you can not reestablish the LC Resonance and thus the high voltage to start over again .... just my two cents ...



Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 14:48:01 pm
he using lc resonance to generate the highest voltage  which equals the highest potential feild
 
higher the potential feild  the more tension applied to the water molecule 
 
the second signal  is to aggitate the water while  tension is applied thats the mechanical resonance
 
the first inductor is in the circuit for a signal filter and is also a capacitor   because of the mutual capacitance of the wire    this coil creates the step charging by averaging out the voltage peaks and sags caused by the square wave 
 
the second coil is the amp restriction to ground  this is what builds up the potential feild   because you have this inductor to ground it gives you a 90 degree phase delay     
 
so any power you put in the positive side take 90 degrees of phase to come out to ground   
 
if you keep adding power  the voltage in the  cell will keep growing for 90 degrees  after 90 degrees
 
 it will plane off and stay constant because your addind in voltage at the same rate its  leaving the cell
 
if you turn off the power the voltage and current in the cell will start to decay   
 
this will look like a capacitor charging and discharging signal  which is a  sawtooth
 
this process is then repeated at the resonant frequency of the circuit  allowing for voltage magnification 
 
the blocking diode just takes the ac created on the secondary during resonance and  rectifies it back to dc
 
 
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 15:11:20 pm
Shark,there are no current spikes when in resonance.As dudleyengineering stated above thats it in a nutshell.Remember we are restricting current,if there's spikes,than there's a shorting in the cell.Not Good.
 
High voltage on the water alone will NOT break the waters bond,you need to get the water molecule to resonate with the gating frequency in order to pull the water apart.
 
Go to my other post on gating
Don
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 16:31:07 pm
For a long time this resonance term has been on my mind.

Has anyone come up with the following term what Stan meant, "tuning into the dielectric properties of water" = "parametric exciting"
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Parametric+Excitation+and+Amplification+of+Electromagnetic (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Parametric+Excitation+and+Amplification+of+Electromagnetic)
http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm)
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/paraintr.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/paraintr.htm)

When you set the LC resonance with PULSE frequency (natural frequency) we get high voltage. If amps are being restricted we are separating water, so capacitance is changing (dielectric between the plates) at the rate we are sending the PULSES. The LC resonance will be tuned (locked) by the PLL, but if we use GATE frequency for amplification of the natural resonance in the WFC on the rate the capacitance is changing we are getting parametric amplification of the natural LC resonance.

Just a thought.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 17:34:31 pm
If the parametric exitation is possible, than for the alternator to work the speed of the drive motor should be controlled of fine tune by having a frequency to voltage converter and or phase comparator to fine tune the movement to the resonance. But for me seems very over complicated design.


The thing is that inductance is the number of turns squared divided by the reluctance, so the smaller it is the greater will be the inductance. However the fields are complicated concept in the sense that nothing says that it really exist. The energy you input in a component is inside it somewhere distributed, If you add a lamination of iron inside the transformer you wont need to do work to do so and you would increase the inductance, like naudin said in the 90's but only in one cycle, and here is the problem. If you make the core to oscillate maybe having some springs in it and to the resonant frequency to the spring resonance, you could actually insert and take out the core, much like a speaker works... I already thought of this but didn't build it, i called the vibration transformer or something like that.


I will try to find out more about this parametric component of the equation..


I'm not sure if actually you will get more energy out, but certainly is not the same thing as was tested before so should be tested further.




Br

Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2011, 03:18:58 am
Shark,there are no current spikes when in resonance.As dudleyengineering stated above thats it in a nutshell.Remember we are restricting current,if there's spikes,than there's a shorting in the cell.Not Good.
 
High voltage on the water alone will NOT break the waters bond,you need to get the water molecule to resonate with the gating frequency in order to pull the water apart.
 
Go to my other post on gating
Don

It would be very interesting to know a gating frequency as per resonate frequency  as Stan examples (.5 hz gating /5khz resonate frequency) That confuses me as he says that will provide 2500 discreet pulses per hz, I want to think that it should say discreet pulses per .5 hz...  for some reason that part isnt sinking in to me.
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2011, 04:27:28 am
Shark,there are no current spikes when in resonance.As dudleyengineering stated above thats it in a nutshell.Remember we are restricting current,if there's spikes,than there's a shorting in the cell.Not Good.
 
High voltage on the water alone will NOT break the waters bond,you need to get the water molecule to resonate with the gating frequency in order to pull the water apart.
 
Go to my other post on gating
Don

It would be very interesting to know a gating frequency as per resonate frequency  as Stan examples (.5 hz gating /5khz resonate frequency) That confuses me as he says that will provide 2500 discreet pulses per hz, I want to think that it should say discreet pulses per .5 hz...  for some reason that part isnt sinking in to me.

The gating frequency will be manually adjusted to match the specific gap between a set of electrodes, this is design variable, the PLL must be a follower of the "electrical resonance" of your specific VIC Coil and WFC combined as a tank circuit for electrical resonance to keep chasing the ever changing capacitance as the gas is produced

The gating frequency is adjusted based on mechanical seperation or distance between tubular electrodes (gap) and this, once designed will never change therefore the gating, once adjusted will never change...


@ DON:
do all the coils (primary, sec, choke1, choke2 ) have to resonate at the same frequency for efficient transfer of energy?
Are all the inductances the same?
Title: Re: LC Resonance question.
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2011, 01:39:52 am
Ali,how can the primary coil, which is alot smaller, be the same inductance as the other coils on the same core?
It can't.
But you can adjust the size of the coil to have a match in resonance frequencies.
 
Example: 1KHZ, 2KHZ, 4KHZ, 8KHZ, 16KHZ
 
Don