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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Donaldwfc on May 02, 2009, 19:29:25 pm

Title: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 19:29:25 pm
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 20:35:34 pm
donald the concept he explains in the beginning is exactly what is going on in the vic and wfc setup....this is why there are multiple frequencies in the meyers equations once set at "resonance"....there are resonant pulses and a resonant frequency.

this is perfect....this is why andrija puharich and meyers actually have a shit load in common.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 20:56:31 pm
I knew you would value this video :)

Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 20:58:59 pm
modulating the output...soo good . thank you this explains it perfectly.

after i get something to eat i will finally punch out the numbers in the tech brief for the frequencies.

and possibly draw up a picture.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 21:46:35 pm
Great video! ;)

Steve
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 23:35:00 pm
alright so to get a conversion of 12 volts 3.3 amps (40 watts) to 40,000 volts at .001 amps (40watts) we need a Z = 12,000....with R= 11,600 ohms then XL-XC= 3,073 ohms.

given information in the tech brief states that a tube size of 3 inches in height with .75 outer diameter .5 inner diameter .0625 wall thickness has a resonant frequency with the vic of around 5,000 hz. (he later also calls this resonant pulse)

so with the tube specifications and the dialetric constant of water equaling 78.54 ohms we get 9.4583E-11 farads

now here is where i am confused.....this wording is very tricky here
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/perhertz.jpg)

what does this 2,500 discrete pulses in a 50% duty cycle per hz mean.......it isn't just a difficult way of saying 2.5khz is it?......the 50% duty cycle per hz throws me off.

electrojolt...if you happen to read this what is your take on this?
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 23:57:03 pm
When I read this sometime ago, I saw it as:

the 5Khz is the resonace freq of the transformer (VIC) then the .5hz is the gating.

when I tested John's VIC, It did generate a sine wave (resonace) I didn't have a chance to check the freq, the chokes burned up too fast.

but I did see a pure sine wave just by placing the scope probe close to the VIC.

so a .5Hz = to a on pulse duration of one second.  Then this means that you pulse 5Khz for one second, and then off for one second.

and in once second 5 KHz (50% duty)  =  to 2500 on pulses and 2500 off pulses.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 00:46:41 am
i understand now.....thank you very much!
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:04:45 am
so if he is using a wave then the reason for gating would make sense...... i am seeing it as a 5 thousand cycles a second meanin one positive pulse and one negative pulse....(a cycle)......super imposing a half hertz gating signal will then create a 2500 UNIPOLAR pulses with a 50% duty cycle since the gating switches off on the negative half of the cycle....he uses the word discrete which means seperate so 2,500 seperate pulses.......interesting.

any comments on this electrojolt?

i hope this is correct.

but if that is the case then that is still not gated....ugh......so then the 2,500 unipolar pulses with a 50% duty cycle would now enter the inductor and once passing the inductor it would be doubled with a frequency of 5,000 unipolar (double) pulses would enter the water cavity.

then i think those pulses are switched on and off......this creates the pulse train......the on and off switching is the LC resonant frequency.

each patent he has a new way of explaining it......it is always the same situation though.....just like what is going on in the video  the coil has a resonant frequency of 135khz but they make audio waves by gating it anywhere from 20hz to 22khz.......just like andrija puharich said......even in meyers older patents he uses unfiltered dc which are pulses then gates the pulses!.....now we are creating unfiltered dc from a 50 percent duty cycle pulse and then gating the unfiltered dc to make pulse trains.

so this is a huge part to it.......THERE ARE 2 RESONANT FREQUENCIES.....A RESONANT PULSE AND A LC RESONANCE.

and i like the statement from WO 92/07861 "Also, at a resonant condition harmonic effects occur."....i can only imagine what will begin to happen on the step charging and decay times of the wfc....almost like a sustained ringing inside the tubes....not a physical ringing but an energetic one.....so the cell will be doing plenty of work on the gated off pulses as the enrgy is dissipated into the cell thus you need half the energy to do twice the work.

this technology is simply amazing.

Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:28:54 am
good stuff

just had a thought

say you have 60 Hz AC, and you half wave rectify it, you go from ^v^v^v to ^ ^ ^, but you still have 60 Hz, and it's 60 Hz unipolar DC 50% duty cycle

say you full wave rectify the 60 Hz AC, and go from ^v^v^v to ^^^^^^, now you have 120 Hz unipolar DC 100% duty cycle

is this right?

is it relevant?


Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:44:12 am
that is correct and relevant....now in stans older work he full wave rectifies the signal from let's say 60 hz ^v^v^v to _^|^|^|^|^|^_ making it 120 hz or twice the original frequency and now it is unfiltered DCthen he gates that signal for his lc resonance....the gating of that signal on and off might make the overall signal let's say 500hz......it depends on the L and C.


in his more recent work he uses single unipolar pulses let's say 60 pulses a second_^_^_^_^_ (sort of like ac but unipolar this can be accomplished on a signal generator with a dc offset or a pulse mode).....are sent into the bifilar inductor and the emf release produces _^|^|^|^|^|^_ 120 pulses a second or at this point unfiltered DC becuase of the diode and it's direction....that signal is then gated for LC resonance.

but you are correct.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:48:28 am
wow you can gate a 120 Hz frequency and get 500 Hz out?

that is interesting and useful knowledge
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:59:22 am
wow you can gate a 120 Hz frequency and get 500 Hz out?

that is interesting and useful knowledge

aghh no i meant to write "let's say...."  sorry.

but yes you can just like in the tesla coil where they turned the 135khz resonant frequency into audio! (20HZ-22KHZ)
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 03:03:30 am
i mean take a small frequency and gate it to get a larger frequency, 120 to 500, as opposed to 500 to 120 which is easy to visualize

i suppose each pulse would have a different amplitude though, if the first frequency was a rounded waveform
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 03:31:47 am
you cannot take a small frequency and make it a larger frequency....IE 4 hz pulse and make it a 16khz pulse.

you can take a large frequency.....like in the tesla coil video a frequency of 135,000 hz and by pulsing it on and off (GATING) you can create audio waves which are in the range of 20HZ to 20,000HZ that entire range is much much smaller then the coils resonant frequency so YES.

YOU CAN TAKE A HIGHFREQUENCY AND GATE IT TO A VERY SMALL ONE....BUT NOT A LOW FREQUENCY AND GATE IT TO A HIGH FREQUENCY....that cannot be done.

that is how they got the tesla coil above audio frequency range to work with the bass guitar's very very low audio range.

each pulse would not have a different amplitude if you are switching it on and off.....it works like a square wave.....if you faded in and faded out the pulses like a sine wave then yes each pulse would have a different amplitude.

but in meyers work he takes a unipolar pulse (which is basically unfiltered dc pulsed on and off to make a square wave) and then gates that with a much larger square wave. IE switching instantly on and instantly off GATING.

i can draw this if you still can't see it.....the radio works exactly like this....this is frequency modulation or FM......where AM is amplitude modulation.....and meyers technology uses both (in a sense)
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 03:41:18 am
i was thinking like this, maybe it wasn't explained very good
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 03:51:50 am
ha no that is wrong.

i will draw what i am talking about.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 03:53:43 am
wrong as in not possible?

i dono if it is useful, but i would venture to guess it is possible
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 04:19:04 am
no your are correct in your drawings but that is not what is happening.....yes that can happen.....but that is not what is happening.....the signal isn't rounded....make it square so the amplitude is constant and that would be the input wave into the vic primary....i am scanning the images.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 04:29:01 am
oh and the images below actually only show 3hz...but just pretend they are 5khz.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/pulses1.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/pulses2.jpg)

a very good statement
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/hiitspermolecule.jpg)

so basically everything comes down to the coils resonant frequency....the coils resonant pulse in this case would be the 2,500 input pulses which would turn into the 5,000 pulses.

the resonant frequency would be the 8 times a second over all pulse.....that is resonance between the inductor and capacitor.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 04:34:41 am
so if he is using a wave then the reason for gating would make sense...... i am seeing it as a 5 thousand cycles a second meanin one positive pulse and one negative pulse....(a cycle)......super imposing a half hertz gating signal will then create a 2500 UNIPOLAR pulses with a 50% duty cycle since the gating switches off on the negative half of the cycle....he uses the word discrete which means seperate so 2,500 seperate pulses.......interesting.

any comments on this electrojolt?

-----> Well, by using a .5 Hz Gating on a 5Khz pulsing, that means the circuit will be pulsing 5Khz for  1 second, and during that one second, there will be 2500 On pulses.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 04:36:11 am
haha that is right.. like i keep sayn signal 49axxx49n is the signal in the primary of the vic.. read this carefully and you will see my point..  lets say the variable are 6 volts analog and 10khz signal...  10khz is 10,000 hits in one second so a 50 percent duty would produce 5000 pulses in one second in 100 pulse gates meaning during 100 pulses 50 are on and 50 are off.. but those 100 pulse's that are 50 percent duty are considerd the waters resonance pulse and can be adjusted ..  so technicaly the water would be getting 100 step up pulses a second with 100 equal off times for the gate.........  there is a analog signal going into positve primary that is being gated out on the negative side.. so at 10khz and a 50 percent duty cycle i see the step up pulse having 50 on pulses and 50 of during 1 of the 50 cycles that are happening in 1 second... with that switching on and off and the analog inclining in same time frame your getting 50 on times and 50 off  during the off analog is still on and climbing so it explains where the multiplying frequency is coming from... with that analog climbing at a 45 degree time relative environment by the time off time switches back on the potentials pressure force has also climbed.. read around page 50 in the tech over and over again you will connect the dots.. look at the simple layout drawings for the circuits.. read the explanations of their jobs... it says word for word that positve (26) aka primary is recieving a variable amplitude analog pulse... and it also says the oppoosite side is conected to a fet for the frequency and they bother are on the some gate.. cant you see how theres 2 signals there?.. also one of the chokes are connected to the gated side of the primary as well.. it has somthing to do with superimposing the charge onto primary during gate off time? maybe helps with electron bounce or somthin?
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 04:47:22 am
oh yea, i know the vic takes square waves, i'm just learning random things about diodes, reifications, gating and such...


good explanation
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:00:37 am
so if he is using a wave then the reason for gating would make sense...... i am seeing it as a 5 thousand cycles a second meanin one positive pulse and one negative pulse....(a cycle)......super imposing a half hertz gating signal will then create a 2500 UNIPOLAR pulses with a 50% duty cycle since the gating switches off on the negative half of the cycle....he uses the word discrete which means seperate so 2,500 seperate pulses.......interesting.

any comments on this electrojolt?

-----> Well, by using a .5 Hz Gating on a 5Khz pulsing, that means the circuit will be pulsing 5Khz for  1 second, and during that one second, there will be 2500 On pulses.


alright so let me clear this up here.....so there are 5,000 cycles a second but the gating is half a cycle a second (let's say the negative half of the cycle) so there will be then 2,500 cycles in between every half cycle of nothing.

so then if meyers is using pulses as input then there are 2,500 on pulses with 50 percent duty cycle for half of the cycle and the other half of the cycle is off.


sooo:   _________2500 with 50% duty cycle_________2500 50% duty cycle_________2500 50% duty cycle

and the above image would be 3 full cycles.

and that is what is going into the primary....and that IS the gated cycle......i kept confusing myself with visualizing hertz although it is kilohertz.


so my drawing is terribly confusing seeing that i simplfied it down to 3 hertz when in reality there are 15,000 cycles going on in that drawing.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:03:17 am
so if he is using a wave then the reason for gating would make sense...... i am seeing it as a 5 thousand cycles a second meanin one positive pulse and one negative pulse....(a cycle)......super imposing a half hertz gating signal will then create a 2500 UNIPOLAR pulses with a 50% duty cycle since the gating switches off on the negative half of the cycle....he uses the word discrete which means seperate so 2,500 seperate pulses.......interesting.

any comments on this electrojolt?

-----> Well, by using a .5 Hz Gating on a 5Khz pulsing, that means the circuit will be pulsing 5Khz for  1 second, and during that one second, there will be 2500 On pulses.


alright so let me clear this up here.....so there are 5,000 cycles a second but the gating is half a cycle a second (let's say the negative half of the cycle) so there will be then 2,500 cycles in between every half cycle of nothing.

so then if meyers is using pulses as input then there are 2,500 on pulses with 50 percent duty cycle for half of the cycle and the other half of the cycle is off.


sooo:   _________2500 with 50% duty cycle_________2500 50% duty cycle_________2500 50% duty cycle

and the above image would be 3 full cycles.

and that is what is going into the primary.


my drawing is terribly confusing seeing that i simplfied it down to 3 hertz when in reality there are 15,000 cycles going on in that drawing.

Yes, I agree, that is what the Patent says.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:04:18 am
thank you electrojolt for helping me.....i kept visualizing hertz although it is in kilohertz......this is reflected in my drawing.

thank you very much i appreciate it.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:05:09 am
try this

i think you have to consider that we are always talking about unipolar pulses

we know the primary gets 50% duty cycle unipolar frequency with gates
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:08:49 am
hell yeah! exactly!

and that is what pulses the primary!
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:14:22 am
try and figure out that math lol

10 Hz + 1 Hz Gate = 5 Hz [all 50% duty)

it's not normal math, it's wave form math, if i wasn't drawing it i would have made a mistake (in fact i did before i drew it, see the scribble)
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:44:43 am
haha your right but i know what you mean

that 1hz pulse is very looong.

but you get the concept.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 06:17:56 am
Now there is only one problem..

I did this last year, and didn't see any good results.

but I didn't have a VIC, my understanding was that using this signal, it would allow the WFC to build up some charge, to high voltage, but that was not the case.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 06:35:42 am
yes i have also had no success also....it's not that simple.

i think it has to do with producing the double pulse.....the frequency of the double pulse production .

tomorrow i will have johns coil and will try the last bifilar connection.

i always have my fingers crossed.

i seem to have the same problems demartin faces with the 2 different connections.......so it is narrowing down very precisely.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 07:00:24 am
Great, Well, I wish you good luck, let us know your results,

I have been working with resonance circuits (RF) and getting some experience in getting coils in resonance.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 16:47:34 pm
fedex shipping location is closed on monday.....strange....so i have to wait for tomorrow.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 21:37:38 pm
the concept is close to being understood but your duty cycle idea might need a little tweek... you do realize that house electric is being produced with a 50 percent duty cycle but it has 60 cycles in one second... i think you might want to investigate the idea of square rooting the 50 percent duty cycle instead of just dividing 10khz by 2 and considering thats what is needed to determine a duty cycle for 1 second..... you know that 50 percent of that 10khz is off which is 5000 hertz and you know the other 5000hertz are allowed to pass current.. dont for get the 10 khz is a gate it self of on and offs..   but back to the point you can create a 50 percent duty cycle for 10khz having 100 hertz on and 100 hertz off. and it can happen in repatition  50 times in 1 second..  your step up pulse will have 100 pulse's but 50 will be off and 50 will be on.  now think of the square pulse being analog on the positve side of the primary.. and the frequency is on the negative side then figure the gate thats gating off the frequency is also gating the analog so they match in length..
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 22:17:14 pm
i am well aware of Vrms and Irms...but sqaure waves are different in there sustained peak then ac waves are.

if i were to use ac power and rectify it to produce DC unfiltered power then i would consider Vrms and Irms.

but square waves are much much different.....and the tiny tiny tiny off pulse between the well created unipolar pulses may either hold some relevant information or too tiny to consider.

it is still unknown but it is good you bring this up.
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 23:17:29 pm
i would say its either one or the other... when you say square wave does that include analog in your thoughts ? the 2 signal gens i posted a while back came off of stan meyers myspace page.. they were drawn up by a guy name rich collins i think.. he is the one who created the page..
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2009, 16:59:18 pm
Energy appearing out of nowhere
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2009, 17:53:16 pm

Im now thinking , if this tuned object can take electrons out of the air , did the wfc take electrons out of water and that is just how it worked , reason for such quality gas .

I was reading here that the avramenko pump should not be grounded or it becomes an closed system .

Water is mass , it can give out electrons .
Title: Re: This Video
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2009, 21:59:15 pm
That is a great circuit in that video Dankie.
Anybody have a schematic of it?

Steve